The legality of cannabis.

THC causes mixed signals to go to the brain, this is where the bad effects come from. If your talking about health problems, that is a different story. But if its about a Bad Trip than its only due to how the brain is percieving its surroundings.

Over an extended period of usage, your brain is able to percieve things as they are since the THC isn't sending the mixed signals like it once was.

Due to this, the bad side effects are minimized.

Originally posted by chissler
Due to this, the bad side effects are minimized.

Well I can assure you that after a couple of years of heavy usage the bad side effects were not minimized in the slightest, unfortunately.

but you have to remember chissler that alot of those "bad" effects..such as paranoia are because it is illegal. If it legal people wouldnt be paranoid.. there would be no shame or need to hide.. which is where most of this...."paranoia" comes from... that is the govt. fault not the weed.

Originally posted by TONE23
but you have to remember chissler that alot of those "bad" effects..such as paranoia are because it is illegal. If it legal people wouldnt be paranoid.. there would be no shame or need to hide.. which is where most of this...."paranoia" comes from... that is the govt. fault not the weed.

That's a very interesting theory, unfortunately there's no way to confirm it.

Great avatar by the way.

Originally posted by John Nada

Originally posted by chissler
Due to this, the bad side effects are minimized.

Well I can assure you that after a couple of years of heavy usage the bad side effects were not minimized in the slightest, unfortunately.

I am truly sorry that this has been your experience... and that is exactly why this should be dealt with on a case by case basis.. for you it caused stress and "paranoia"... but for many it brings about relaxation and peaceful state of mind.
I wonder would you still have had problems if it was legal.. and there wasnt the whole "wrongness" of it hanging over your head.

Originally posted by John Nada

Originally posted by TONE23
but you have to remember chissler that alot of those "bad" effects..such as paranoia are because it is illegal. If it legal people wouldnt be paranoid.. there would be no shame or need to hide.. which is where most of this...."paranoia" comes from... that is the govt. fault not the weed.

That's a very interesting theory, unfortunately there's no way to confirm it.

Great avatar by the way.

your right on the nail there no way to confirm it until we legalize it and find out... cause the way it is now sure as hell isnt working..

and thanks.. JAK made it for me... hes really talanted... of course so is chissler...

Are you guys completely against science? The effects of this drug has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

You inhale, it goes into your lungs and to your blood stream. Immediately it goes to your brain where it plays its games.

The legality of the drug has nothing to do with the level of paranoia.

Ashamed of the drug?

I wasn't aware the users of it were ashamed. I was at a Rolling Stones concert yesterday and watched thousand of people light up. Not one of them ashamed, but every one of them on the trip of their life.

Tough to say they were only paranioid since the drug was illegal, they were consuming it in public. Paranoid or Ashamed was nowhere to be found.

The effects of the drugs were clear aswell. You could sit and watch the drugs take hold. Those that were consistent users went on as if nothing happened, the tolerance protected them. Some of the younger kids who may not of had the same tolerance would be quickly out of control.

Its tough to argue with science. Speculation vs. Science.. hrmm.. I think my money is on science for this one.

I have granted the cancer links. Albeit bad for your health, I can admit the links between MJ and cancer are minimal. However, the short-term effects of MJ are intense and serious. Being paranoid doesn't come from the drug being illegal, it comes from the mixed signals being sent to the brain.

[edit on 24-9-2006 by chissler]

Originally posted by TONE23
I am truly sorry that this has been your experience... and that is exactly why this should be dealt with on a case by case basis.. for you it caused stress and "paranoia"... but for many it brings about relaxation and peaceful state of mind.
I wonder would you still have had problems if it was legal.. and there wasnt the whole "wrongness" of it hanging over your head.

As I said for about a year it was nothing but good experiences, then all of a sudden it went bad. I could never pin down why that was the case, maybe a bad time in my life, but I think you're really onto something with your theory!

I will say this though, I thought I'd give it a go about six months ago to see if the bad effects were still there, and it was the 'I hope I don't get paranoid' thoughts that caused the paranoia!

Originally posted by chissler
Are you guys completely against science? The effects of this drug has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

You inhale, it goes into your lungs and to your blood stream. Immediately it goes to your brain where it plays its games.

The legality of the drug has nothing to do with the level of paranoia.

I don't dispute what you're saying, but as I said I am only going from personal experience and what I have said has been correct from my point of view.

Originally posted by chissler
Are you guys completely against science? The effects of this drug has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

You inhale, it goes into your lungs and to your blood stream. Immediately it goes to your brain where it plays its games.

The legality of the drug has nothing to do with the level of paranoia.

it has everything to do with the paranoia. Take drug dealers for isntance, they have to be paranoid all the time and always be one step ahead of the police. The people that buy and keep on thheir bodies too. They always have a sense of paranoia that they're going to get caught, and sure, I can admit that sometimes this paranoia is enhanced when taking the drug.

And I'm sure you know, science - especially in regards to the things that we aren't supposed to know about - lies to us. So for all we know these scientific facts, albeit the one about the lungs and inhalation I do give to you, could be false. We've been told so much disinformation over the past 70 years on it to make it seem like it's a lot worse than it really is.

I mean, we have to remember why it was made illegal, due to the comments of Henry J. Anslinger, leader of thhe Federal Beureau of Narcotics (Now the DEA), during the times of high racism and the end of prohibition, and lobbyists with high commercial interest in paper making and other such needs.

Shortly before marijuana was banned by The Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, new technologies were developed that made hemp a potential competitor with the newly-founded synthetic fiber and plastics industries. Hemp's potential for producing paper also posed a threat to the timber industry (see New Billion-Dollar Crop). Evidence suggests that commercial interests having much to lose from hemp competition helped propagate reefer madness hysteria, and used their influence to lobby for Marijuana Prohibition. It is not known for certain if special interests conspired to destroy the hemp industry via Marijuana Prohibition, but enough evidence exists to raise the possibility.

After Alcohol Prohibition ended in 1933, funding for the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (now the Drug Enforcement Administration) was reduced. The FBN's own director, Harry J. Anslinger, then became a leading advocate of Marijuana Prohibition. In 1937 Anslinger testified before Congress in favor of Marijuana Prohibition by saying: "Marijuana is the most violence causing drug in the history of mankind." "Most marijuana smokers are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes." Marijuana Prohibition is founded on lies and rooted in racism, prejudice, and ignorance.

original source

Originally posted by chissler
Are you guys completely against science? The effects of this drug has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

no.. but I am against biased govt. science that is skewed from the start to reinforce their pathetic arguement... The govt. has been lying and doctoring science on pot for 70 years.. why in the world would I trust anything that is govt. sponsored in this specific topic?... I wont

original quote by: chissler
You inhale, it goes into your lungs and to your blood stream. Immediately it goes to your brain where it plays its games.

I am not sure of what "games" it plays... but it is not a hallucinagen. It should not be classified anywher near the other narcotics. And yes it is an immediate "high"

original quote by: chissler
The legality of the drug has nothing to do with the level of paranoia.

on this point I dont think I can agree.. Anytime someone smokes pot.. it is an underlying reality .. that they know what they are doing is illegal and theat they can be arrested.. that automatically instills a level of "paranoia" right from the start.

Originally posted by John Nada
As I said for about a year it was nothing but good experiences, then all of a sudden it went bad. I could never pin down why that was the case, maybe a bad time in my life, but I think you're really onto something with your theory!

Maybe the problem was the drug itself.

I am required to stay within the guidelines, but lets just say not every drug is exactly what they say. It can easily be laced with different chemicals to give off an effect, not always a pleasant experience.

I'm not for or against the Legalization for MJ. I do enjoy a good discussion which is why I present my stance here.

I will join the dark side for a moment and say that if the drug were to become legal, it would be alot safer. If regulations were put on it, people could be certain what it is they were inhaling into their body.

As of right now, noone can be certain what exactly is in the drug. Not a pleasent thought when you think about it.

Originally posted by chissler
Ashamed of the drug?

I wasn't aware the users of it were ashamed. I was at a Rolling Stones concert yesterday and watched thousand of people light up. Not one of them ashamed, but every one of them on the trip of their life.

Tough to say they were only paranioid since the drug was illegal, they were consuming it in public. Paranoid or Ashamed was nowhere to be found.

The effects of the drugs were clear aswell. You could sit and watch the drugs take hold. Those that were consistent users went on as if nothing happened, the tolerance protected them. Some of the younger kids who may not of had the same tolerance would be quickly out of control.

Its tough to argue with science. Speculation vs. Science.. hrmm.. I think my money is on science for this one.

I have granted the cancer links. Albeit bad for your health, I can admit the links between MJ and cancer are minimal. However, the short-term effects of MJ are intense and serious. Being paranoid doesn't come from the drug being illegal, it comes from the mixed signals being sent to the brain.

good points.. very good points.

but as far as the "science " goes.... you have to see who is sponsoring that science and just what their agenda is. and in this case the govt. makes a ton of money this way... they keep thousands of thousands of people in jail helping to foster the huge prison labor industry. Why in the world would they want to break it up? they have everything to gain by keeping pot illegal... and nothing to lose. Like I said.. there is finally unhindered science that is coming to light... that is dispelling all of the myths. I have illustrated two such scientific articles... no link to lung cancer and regrowing brain cells... I am not going on pure speculation here either... but just check who is sponsoring the "science" and remember thier motives...it makes a world of difference.

as far as paranoi having nothing to do with its legal status... for some yes their brain cannot properly interpret the signals firing in the brain during a "session" there is always going to be that... but for most it is the legal issue that they are most worried about. If it were legal a good portion of this paranoia would disappear. Unfortunately we cannot put that theory to the test until the govt. stops screwing with us....lol

Ill be back tomorrow to continue this stimulating debate... until then have a great day,

tone 23

Originally posted by chissler
I will join the dark side for a moment and say that if the drug were to become legal, it would be alot safer. If regulations were put on it, people could be certain what it is they were inhaling into their body.

As of right now, noone can be certain what exactly is in the drug. Not a pleasent thought when you think about it.

I think that's something we can both agree on. I go further though in saying that if someone wants to poison their body with any drug, without bothering anyone else, then they should have the freedom to legally do so. The profits could be used for so much good, rather than going into drug dealers pockets.

Well what we have to realize is this:

Its my opinion that its due to the mixed signals going to the brain.

It your opinion that its due to the fact its illegal.

The truth is a combination of both. To deny either side is to be ignorant, and in the spirit of ATS we could never do that. Right?

But tone, I have a tough time thinking everything is a conspiracy. I am wide open for discussion, and I always try to remain open to possibilities. But science is science, when the same results continue to turn up over and over it hurts the conspiracy angle.

Originally posted by John Nada
I go further though in saying that if someone wants to poison their body with any drug, without bothering anyone else, then they should have the freedom to legally do so.

Why is it the law to wear your seatbelt?

Sometimes the decisions we make are not always the best for us. Sometimes its better to have someone else make the decision for you. I'm not naive enough to think the government always has our best intentions at heart, but some drugs need to remain illegal.

If drugs were legalized, you would have a skyrocket in the amount of death related drugs. People would be OD'ing left and right for awhile. It would finally even out and then you could try to manage the substance, but alot of work would have to be done before anything could happen.

Teenagers are to easily influenced. Some of the drugs today can change your life with one hit. One hit of '___', Heroin, Crack could have you addicted for life. Are we willing to allow our youth to make that decision on their own? The fact the drug is illegal has already made the decision for many, that could be the determining factor that saves their life.

Originally posted by John Nada
The profits could be used for so much good, rather than going into drug dealers pockets.

The best point I have read yet. That is where the emphasis in the argument must lie.

Originally posted by chissler
Well what we have to realize is this:

Its my opinion that its due to the mixed signals going to the brain.

It your opinion that its due to the fact its illegal.

The truth is a combination of both. To deny either side is to be ignorant, and in the spirit of ATS we could never do that. Right?

But tone, I have a tough time thinking everything is a conspiracy. I am wide open for discussion, and I always try to remain open to possibilities. But science is science, when the same results continue to turn up over and over it hurts the conspiracy angle.

Maybe we're both wrong and the truth is neither? Maybe the paranoia stems back to chemical imbalances the person was predisposed to, and this arises during the intake of the drug. It's a smaller percentage, indefinately. I don't know any statistics, but I feel that almost all people have chemical imbalances. If we didn't, then we'd all be perfect and never have any feelings of depression, paranoia, anxiety. I'm sure that the root of the paranoia goes much deeper than just the illegality and mixed signals to the brain, albeit they do increase the paranoia.

Mixed Balances isn't something I put alot of faith into.

If a child is raised in a terrible environment with abusive parents only to be later diagnosed with some sort of disease related to Mixed Balances, I believe its clear where the problem originated. Alot of these diseases can be uprooted with some sort of psycological counselling.

I'm not saying pills, I'm talking of a social interaction and discussing some of the inner problems.

Some children are born with problems, but its my opinion that a percentage is linked to a psycological issue.

Originally posted by chissler

Originally posted by John Nada
I go further though in saying that if someone wants to poison their body with any drug, without bothering anyone else, then they should have the freedom to legally do so.

Why is it the law to wear your seatbelt?

Sometimes the decisions we make are not always the best for us. Sometimes its better to have someone else make the decision for you. I'm not naive enough to think the government always has our best intentions at heart, but some drugs need to remain illegal.

If drugs were legalized, you would have a skyrocket in the amount of death related drugs. People would be OD'ing left and right for awhile. It would finally even out and then you could try to manage the substance, but alot of work would have to be done before anything could happen.

Teenagers are to easily influenced. Some of the drugs today can change your life with one hit. One hit of '___', Heroin, Crack could have you addicted for life. Are we willing to allow our youth to make that decision on their own? The fact the drug is illegal has already made the decision for many, that could be the determining factor that saves their life.

Originally posted by John Nada
The profits could be used for so much good, rather than going into drug dealers pockets.

The best point I have read yet. That is where the emphasis in the argument must lie.

There are certain drugs, I agree, that should never be made legal. Especially heroin and crack. '___' isn't as addictive, but it is harmful. I know all about '___' and have very mixed feelings on the drug. But this isn't the discussion for it.

If we made marijuana legal, I think it would resolve a lot of problems with teenagers doing it, the same with a drinking age returned to 18. I'm sure you guys can agree with me that the reason teenagers, myself included, do these thhings it to challenge the law. To see how far one can go until they get caught. I think that in making it legal and a lower drinking age would solve a lot of problems that arise with teens, such as alcoholism and addiction to other drugs.

Sure, it would have to be regulated. But I move that it should not be altered in any way by the government. They should give commercial licenses to farmers to grow it and sell it from farms and through dealers. The dealers would be like drug dealers now, but licensed by the government to sell legally. In doing so, it would allow people to get different types of the drug, whichh as I'm sure you know there are plenty of different types that affect one's high differently, more or less potent. I do not think that it should be sold through stores, as then it can be and probably will be altered by the FDA. Marijuana is a natural plant, and should stay that way. Untouched by human made chemicals. However, government regulation in sales would be necessary, such as set prices to ensure that people don't get ripped off, and as much as I don't agree with taxation it should be taxed like cigarettes. Allow anyone to buy it, as it's their own decision to put it in their body.