Hugo Chavez speaking at the UN Against American Imperialism and Bush the Devil

wow
Chavez Unfullfilled Promises

Chavez himself touts his "revolutionary" military background. Sorry if I didn't clarify for you the specifics of what i meant by military but as a Venezuelan I would think you would know what I meant. Did you forget that he attempted his own failed military coup against the Venezuelan govt in 1992?

oh and what about the referendum in 2004 to recall Chavez? democratically overuled right?
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 9-21-2006 by worldwatcher]

I dont care what you guys say about Chavez. He called Bush the devil and he was "right". What kind of president is in Florida teaching kids, when most of the time we see him fishing or doing some other manly thing as a publicity stunt. What kind of man exterminates almost 3000 people in two large buildings in the middle of #ing NEW YORK CITY if hes not the devil hes definitly his partner.

[edit on 21-9-2006 by dunkindonuts]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
wow

Chavez Unfullfilled Promises

Chavez himself touts his "revolutionary" military background. Sorry if I didn't clarify for you the specifics of what i meant by military but as a Venezuelan I would think you would know what I meant. Did you forget that he attempted his own failed military coup against the Venezuelan govt in 1992?

oh and what about the referendum in 2004 to recall Chavez? democratically overuled right?

en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 9-21-2006 by worldwatcher]

Do you even read your own sources!? It says right there that Chavez won the referendum fair and squared, what are you talking about!? The first paper was written by god know who. I can also write one of those saying whatever I want. The wikipedia says that everything was fair and Chavez won easily. Please stop arguing now because you have no idea what you are talking about. You are just pulling out sources from the internet and posting them without reading them properly. Here is an extract of the wiki you referenced:

The ballot

Translated into English:

Do you agree to revoke, for the current term, the popular mandate as President of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela conferred on citizen Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías through democratic and legitimate elections? NO or YES?

Thus (perhaps somewhat counterintuitively) a "yes" vote was a "no to Chávez" vote — ie a "yes to the recall" vote.

For the recall to be successful, there were three conditions:

* A turnout of at least 25% of the country's 14.25 million registered voters.
* More anti-Chávez votes than the number who voted for him in the 2000 presidential election (3.76 million).
* More "yes" votes cast than "no" votes.


The day of the referendum

Polling stations opened at 6 am Venezuelan time on August 15, 2004. Later in the day, faced with a 70% turnout, lengthy queues of waiting voters, and delays exacerbated by the use of novel electronic voting equipment and fingerprint scanners, the electoral authorities agreed to extend the close of voting twice: a four-hour extension of the deadline that took it to 8 pm, followed by an additional four hours announced later in the evening, which took it to midnight.

Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, who was in Venezuela to observe the electoral process, said of the patiently waiting Venezuelan electors, "This is the largest turnout I have ever seen."

All Venezuelans aged 18 and up whose names appear on the electoral roll were eligible to vote, including those residing abroad: polling stations were set up in Venezuelan embassies and consulates abroad.

Results
Hugo Chávez's Election Results
— 2004 recall referendum —
Recall Hugo Chávez?
Source: CNE data
Candidate Votes %
No: 5,800,629 59%
Yes: 3,989,008 41%
Non-voting: 4,222,269 30%

The preliminary result was announced on August 16, 2004 on national television and radio after 94% of the vote had been counted.[4]

* No: 4,991,483 = 58%
* Yes: 3,576,517 = 42%

According to these early-morning results, the first condition (a quorum of 25% of the electorate) had been satisfied. The second condition (more votes against Chávez than he received in 2000) would probably be satisfied. However, the third condition (a simple majority: more people voting "yes" than "no") had clearly failed.

we're reading the same thing and seeing it in two completely different lights, what you call "fair and square" I call conveniently timed for the benefit of Chavez, and questionable democracy.... sound very familiar...sort of like questionable elections we have experienced ourselves in recent years.

en.wikipedia.org...
The date chosen for the recall referendum was significant: had the recall vote been held on 19 August or later, Chávez would have been into the fifth year of his six-year term and had he been voted out, Vice President José Vicente Rangel would have taken over and served out the rest of Chávez's presidency (in accordance with Article 233 of the Constitution, above). With the vote called for 15 August, Chávez was not yet into the last two years of his term in office; an unfavourable result would therefore have meant the calling of fresh presidential elections within the following 30 days. Chávez had expressed his clear intention to stand in the election, had he been recalled; the anti-Chávez factions, however, maintained that he would have been disqualified from doing so.

oh but lemme guess CIA disinformation campaign and the hundreds thousands of anti chavez protesters photographed are plants.

All I ask if for people to see that Chavez doesn't have full support of all Venezuelans. As a a venezuelan, you should know for yourself, that there is a sharp divide among your people regarding Chavez support, look at the numbers you provide, looks very familiar to numbers you see regarding Bush's elections. I can speak to 10 venezuelans and 5 will be adamant Chavez supporters and 5 will be against him...yet somehow it seems that only the supporters voices are being heard... again..that sounds awfully similiar to a situation close at home.



[edit on 9-21-2006 by worldwatcher]

worldwatcher

The ony crime Chavez has commited against the US was to take over his country oil and kick the US oil comapnies out of his country.

For that he is now an evil man that supports the axis of evil countries that US has tagged for political agendas.

Do you just pick random pieces from your sources and think they mean anything? The date for the referendum was not picked by Chavez but by the idependent entity in Venezuela that takes care of anything that has to do with elections.

The date of the referendum is not really important. Had the vice-president finished the mandate, at the end of this term Chavez could have run for president again when the new elections were due since that was only his first term and as it stands right now, you can run for two terms. Had new elections been called right there and then, then Chavez could have run for president again for the same reason. Whichever case it is still democratic as people make the choice, nothing is being imposed on them. What country do you come from that you keep saying things are similar? Anyways, it is 3:44am here in London and I am going to bed. take care.

marg no one said Chavez committed a crime against the US.

I made a point earlier that Chavez is a threat to the US government... and well 10 pages later, here we are.

I know Worldwatcher I have been following this thread for a while, and got kind of heated for a while.

I understand your point, but I also have done research on Chavez and is more propaganda against him than anything else.

it's very easy to dismiss any and all opposition against Chavez as propaganda, but just keep in mind Chavez also plays a game of propaganda, that is why I continue to insist and state this issue is not a clear issue, there is good and bad, however from what I have noticed on the board and various sites, many people have started supporting Chavez for his bold words without looking at the whole package.

btw more links regarding the UN speech fallout...
Hezbollah adopts Chavez as hero

Chavez speech boosts Chomsky book sales

oh and more opposition propaganda
The barrio voters

Incredible Escape Weakens Chávez’s GovernmentIn principle, those elections pose no danger to Hugo Chávez and his ambitions of indefinite reelection. In the eight years he has been in power, he has built an electoral machine that guarantees him victory. He has altered the registration rolls, adding to them about two million phantom voters; voting is conducted through an electronic system that the government has never allowed others to audit; and four of the five members of the National Electoral Council are his unconditional supporters. In addition, Chávez can count on an assured percentage of voters because they are public employees, contractors hired by the state, or recipients of the money he doles out by the fistful. A complex electoral system and some appropriate electronic devices generate the fear that the government might know the behavior of each and every voter, eliminating voter anonymity, as happened on the occasion of the revocatory referendum two years ago, which Chávez won through fraud.

[edit on 9-21-2006 by worldwatcher]

I live in the states but our family owns a manufacturing business in Venezuela. Since Chavez has taken power he has imposed a number of different taxes on Venezuelan businesses. One such tax affected our area cosmetics and hit manufacturing costs very hard. Funny thing is Chavez is so against the U.S. that the only companies excluded from the tax were American. One such company Johnson & Johnson can import all their products into Venezuela free of this new tax. So what happens is Venezuelan companies have to pay more to manufacture their product in their own country which drives up prices and has given Johnson & Johnson and other American companies a bigger share of the market. Chavez is another Castro all he wants is money and by establishing that tax I'm sure American companies gave him some nice kickbacks. He talks big game but all he wants is power and money. If he meant what he said wouldn't he be working to push American company's out?

As much as i dislike that donkey, he did speak the truth.

The truth is true and rings of truth. Bush is a devil, Bush is/was an alcoholic, Bush wants to run the world. Its all true.

Having said that, i think that commie should be saying that in his own country about Bush and not be coming here to say it. Of course, they gave him all the airtime he wanted.....who's fault is that?? Since when do we allow a burro to have time on our tvs to speak his mind at length, without any sort of censoring?
Who's fault is that???

Fidel's lap dog has his day of fame. I';m not offended by what he said, i'm offended that the USA would allow an ignoramus (who';s calling the kettle black) on our airwaves.

Who's fault is it again??

After all, this is not a diplomat. This man is an elementary school dropout and eats with his fingers.

I just talk to most of my Venezuela friend and I know a lot and most of them love Hugo! One of them is a childhood friend! Jeez why everyone hates him so much I have no clue. I got ideas but that all.

Originally posted by cb84
Funny thing is Chavez is so against the U.S. that the only companies excluded from the tax were American. One such company Johnson & Johnson can import all their products into Venezuela free of this new tax. So what happens is Venezuelan companies have to pay more to manufacture their product in their own country which drives up prices and has given Johnson & Johnson and other American companies a bigger share of the market. Chavez is another Castro all he wants is money and by establishing that tax I'm sure American companies gave him some nice kickbacks. He talks big game but all he wants is power and money. If he meant what he said wouldn't he be working to push American company's out?

Im sorry about the tax predicament your family is having. Perhaps maybe you should incorporate it here in the States on behalf of your family and open a small office here. Might help alleviate your problems. I'd speak to a tax attorney in both countries to set it up properly.

Maybe I misread your statement but why would you say that Chavez is against the USA if he allowed them a tax break? Unless you were being sarcastic and saying that he really has nothing against the USA , then I would see this as being pro-american stance.


Pie

On the news here in Australia a little grab was shown of a Whitehouse official stating that the people of Venezuala do not have the same freedom to criticise the Preseident as Chavez has just done. The news report than claimed that if you're in Ven. and you criticize the President you automatically go to jail for 40 days!
1. Can anyone confirm this?
2. If this is true, how does this resonate with the picture being presented that Chavez is some sort of noble patriot standing up to an international bully?

citizens and residents of the U.S we need to unify, no matter what we cannot let some foreign nation come in and talk trash to our leader, whether we like him or not hes all we have, when next election time comes we can change it (possiblly) but for now i think we need to stand beside the man regardless of what happened in the past. When some lower class foreigner comes in talking trash about our leader, he is also talking trash to you, to every citizen and resident who is living here in the USA. Whether you voted for him or not you are still living under his benefits and rules, under his democracy, you are still being disrespected, you are still feeding your kids, children, wife, husband, and families with jobs/benefits that cannot be provided in any other country because of the democracy that bush/congress/senate represent. Lets stand together and stop the bickering we need to unify regardless of what you personally think of Bush. Bush is not the main man who says what goes and what doesnt. Remember we have congress, senate, they have as much voice/right to make choices as the president. The president cannot make choices by himself, he is simply a "messenger" and main "representation" figure. Please keep this in mind.

I would love to have some foreign nation complain about congress/senate the real lawmakers other than bush. That would actually make them seem smart. But when they all point their fingers at bush and are 2 dumb to acknowledge the real democracy system we have just makes me laugh and especially when we had a simple minded venezuelan talking about the devil and "it still smells like sulfur in here" no sean mamones.

At the same time this chavez guy starts talking all of the sudden it seems like a lot of people come together at once against the U.S. Pakistan, Iran, Venezuela, they all seem to crash at once at the same time. conspiracy? possibly, but so far no one cares.

We need to stand together, unite and represent USA all the way, we are the most hated country because we are the most aggressive, and yet we are the most peaceful and prosporous all at the same time. Dont let the mainstream media fool your mind, thats exactly what this chavez fellow is trying to do. What better stunt than 2 talk big trash knowing that the big man on campus wasnt there. I dont know why bush wasnt there but i personally think he should have. Its strange how Bush lets him talks all he wants, and in the end we still purchase oil from there. And its starnge how Chavez talks all he wants about Bush, yet at the same time he accepts our money to buy his oil. He threatens us of "not selling us oil" yet he pleasantly makes money from us and takes it. It seems to me he is just a greedy dictator just like castro who refuses to acknowledge superiority. And although im defending bush on this one, it seems he an chavez have a personal relationship both to their financial benefit.

We dont need venezuela supplying our oil, id rather pay $3-5 a gallon than let them supply our major oil providers. Heck Id rather invest in a hybrid vehicle.

I believe crazy hugo was also upset about the US neglecting visas to his bodyguards and etc.

From what I know they were rejected because the bodyguards he has are Cubans hired by him, he is also said to have Cuban soldiers train his venezuelen army, he basically doesnt trust his own people and relies on cuban forces to protect him, of course I dont have hard evidence other than what ive looked in to but I believe thats one of the main reasons he also backs up cuba alot. Im sure most of us are aware of the Cuba embargo which explains these actions on the U.S part

If any1 has any disputes of what ive posted please reply and ill happily back up my post.

Long live USA and 4ever prosper

[edit on 9/22/2006 by H34T533K3R]

Originally posted by answerman
On the news here in Australia a little grab was shown of a Whitehouse official stating that the people of Venezuala do not have the same freedom to criticise the Preseident as Chavez has just done. The news report than claimed that if you're in Ven. and you criticize the President you automatically go to jail for 40 days!
1. Can anyone confirm this?
2. If this is true, how does this resonate with the picture being presented that Chavez is some sort of noble patriot standing up to an international bully?

Not true at all. All you have to do for a proof is to turn on one of the oposition tv channels for a day. If what John Bolton said was true, then that person would no longer be on tv the next day. However, the tv channels call Chavez homosexual, lunatic, and tons of other worse stuff. No one has ever gone to jail for that in Venezuela. The US should be the last one talking about freedom of speech when they are arresting people for talking bad about Bush or just simply wearing a t-shirt against the gorvernment.

Originally posted by Atomic
Yeah sorry, lots of bull---- flying around in this world.

I love this line.

Prolly the most true thing I've read lately.

Here's a link a video of the speech Click

Go Chavez! He's only speaking the truth and we need more good people like Chavez to take a stand.

Peace

The CIA recruited Chavez years ago before his coup attempt to create a Latin enemy to replace Fidel with.
Bushco is laughing all the way to the polling booths with the reaction of undecided voters to the retarded rhetoric of this guy.
Mrs. SoccerMom doesn't like mean people who call others bad names.

Originally posted by dgtempe
After all, this is not a diplomat. This man is an elementary school dropout and eats with his fingers.

The funny thing is that this "elementary school dropout" in probably twice as smart as our ivy league graduate and infinately more coherent, who ironically, is also known to eat with his hands...