John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS

Originally posted by zorgon
One of the things skeptic try to do is point at one or two images and explain how we are wrong in what we see. Okay granted not ALL of the anomalies we find are truly mysterious, and may be only merely intriguing... BUT several that we have shown are quite fantastic... and have convinced many people in this thread that there is certainly something going on.

I agree there are some intriguing lunar images, but there are also some that are *shall we say* less intriguing. I don't blindly believe every image I see is some ancient artifact or ruins. That's the problem with Skeptics and Believers, they both DEFEND their sides like no tomorrow, which sometimes clouds your objectiveness. Take each image of an anomaly for its own merits.

I don't label myself a skeptic nor a believer, thats taking sides, I side with correct logical thinking, wherever that may lead. In some cases it says that "ITS AN ALIEN ARTIFACT", in other cases it says "ITS A TRICK OF SHADOW AND LIGHT AND IS A NATURAL FEATURE".

A SINGLE IMAGE of a structure on the Moon should be enough to raise eyebrows and make one say WTF?... not hundreds JUST ONE... because if there is just one thing out of place on the moon we have our proof...

Its enough to raise eyebrows, but the problem again is the only aspects looked at are "its alien intelligence at work". How about some research before conclusions are made, some objective theories and with the evidence rule some out as you go.

And after looking at those please apply your Milk Drop Theory and adjust it to explain Heart Shaped Craters... something that have found twelve on Mars so far...

Do you just ignore science in your replies? Your so called "HEART SHAPED CRATER" anomalies can be explained easily by SCIENCE not what you may be alluding to as alien origin. Do some homework regarding impact crater patterns based on angle of impact. Also take a look at the "BUTTERFLY PATTERN" formed from an aerial or near surface explosion, as in Tunkuska.

And again take a hard look at the milkdrop demonstration of how liquids and thus superheated solids react, its not a THEORY. This may help you to understand that many of the images are ordinary natural features. Then again SOME of the anomalies are suggestive of intelligent design, but thats not to say that ALL of them are.

No, no, thank you.




[edit on 25-5-2007 by greatlakes]

Originally posted by undo
so in the meantime, i'm not posting any more images, even in defense of my own side. especially if someone else is more qualified to answer it. but i am looking at the clementine color far side. it's a field of blue glowies. some of them are very weird.

Yeah I am ready to go back to the Clementine thread... we never did finish that and never actually added the pages to thelivingmoon.com yet. I think we should leave the talk of the color images to that thread... there is already too much in this one...

Originally posted by Cydonian Priest
People have noticed all sorts of strange things happening on the moon since the very first telescope was invented, you might want to look into reading the book Alien Agendas.

You might also want to check NASA's reports and records about the hundreds of these "strange happenings" they keep records of. They are called TLP's

How would they get supplies? wouldn't people notice all of the launches from Earth? Or do these aliens hide behind the moon all the time?

Its called ISRU In-Situ Resource Utilization... Get used to the term, google it. Oh and those "stupid bases" are not Alien they are ours

1. By rocketship of course
2. They might notice them, If they knew where all this was taking place. There could be a giant launch pad in the ocean for all we know.
3. That is where I would hide, or inside the moon

1) Of course... Latest Titan Launch from Vandenberg... many launches from many sites around the US and the world, mostly Military missions, some commercial satellites... They don't make the news... the locals don't make any fuss... its like living at an Airport or next to Nellis AFB... after awhile you don't even notice the planes... and believe me that is hard to do at Nellis.



Bigger Image for you rocket buffs...
www.fiz.uni-lj.si...

2) Sea Launch? What a GREAT IDEA :up" Oh wait Boeing/Russian patrnership already doing that...

www.boeing.com...

3) Farside would be better... you can't watch them from Earth on that side

220,000 miles takes a while, even if you are going 10,000 miles an hour.

Assuming that we DON'T have better vessels

[edit on 25-5-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Please provide us with the links to this data... it is afterall an ATS requirement

Funny I don't see any evidence to support the following anywhere in your post:

The Ancient Derelict Excavator

Does it just LOOK like an ancient derelict excavator to you? What about objective and neutral naming of this image? Or do you have some sort of proof to support this claim to uphold your ATS requirements?

The Control Valve

Again, any evidence to call this image a contol valve? I have some fluffy cloud images for you to look at in that case, maybe you can interpret those for me...

I was offering some logical theories, maybe just as logical as your "Ancient Alien Derelict Excavator" image, but nonetheless, a theory as to POSSIBLE causes for the blue light.

Originally posted by greatlakes
I agree there are some intriguing lunar images, but there are also some that are *shall we say* less intriguing. I don't blindly believe every image I see is some ancient artifact or ruins.

Fine I accept that... now please comment on the examples I posted and stop skirting the issue... those are a few of our better examples...surely you could venture an opion on those" As you say "Take each image of an anomaly for its own merits...."

Thats what we are asking you to do...

That's the problem with Skeptics and Believers, they both DEFEND their sides like no tomorrow, which sometimes clouds your objectiveness.

Between Skeptics and Believers you have Researchers that work hard to present the evidence...

Its enough to raise eyebrows, but the problem again is the only aspects looked at are "its alien intelligence at work". How about some research before conclusions are made, some objective theories and with the evidence rule some out as you go.

Ummmm errr how about PAYING ATTENTION?

First of all we have been saying all along that the Moon bases etc are of EARTH ORIGIN with technology that has been hidden from the public... with some amount of Alien assistance being possible...

Second of all I and others at Pegasus have not made any conclusions, and I am willing to bet we do more research in a day than you have in the past year. Both Pegasus site and Undo's The*Stargates are proof of that. She has even set up a radio interview program for us that has already interviewed some pretty awesome guests.

This thread was created to discuss the possibilities of us being on the moon and/or Alien interconnection, either past or present or both. We are presenting our theories and our opinions and providing TONS of images and documents to back this up

And after looking at those please apply your Milk Drop Theory and adjust it to explain Heart Shaped Craters... something that have found twelve on Mars so far...

Do you just ignore science in your replies? Your so called "HEART SHAPED CRATER" anomalies can be explained easily by SCIENCE not what you may be alluding to as alien origin.

Please be so kind as to show me where I said the Heart craters were of Alien Origin? For that matter be so kind as to show me anywhere I gave any explanation to HOW they were created? I merely presented the image and asked YOU for YOUR explanation. I would greatly appreciate that you do NOT put words in my mouth, Thank you...

You will find that also on my site that has all the Heart craters there is not one hint that any of us say they are either Alien made or Man made.

This may help you to understand that many of the images are ordinary natural features.

Its okay, thanks anyway, but I don't need help understanding

Originally posted by smartie
Zorgon, please look at this and give me your take on it.

This is obviously a composite of a minimum of 3 images,

Yes it is... many NASA images, especially panorama shots will be created from more than one image that has been overlapped and pasted together. I never looked for more than the "peekaboo" that was submitted to me as I don't have time to cover it all, but I will take another look.

It is very easy for the "sky" to be a little different in each portion as each section would be shot from a slightly different angle. Imagine yourself standing in front of your house and you want the whole thing in the picture..

You start at the left take one image, turn a little to get the center, then turn again to get the right. This is the effect when an image is pasted into a mosaic.

But now I will study that again to see if I can spot anything else out of place.

I am interested in your lander observation... I will get back to you

Originally posted by greatlakes

Funny I don't see any evidence to support the following anywhere in your post:

Now you are getting silly... all the evidence and support for those images I hand picked have been shown on this thread repeatedly and are all available on thelivinmoon.com or landoflegends... which has been repeatedly linked to by myself John and Undo... and those clips are taken from the Copernicus images that are from John that are the whole purpose of this thread...
The location of all images I post are also underneath each image

:shk:

Originally posted by zorgon
Fine I accept that... now please comment on the examples I posted and stop skirting the issue... those are a few of our better examples...surely you could venture an opion on those" As you say "Take each image of an anomaly for its own merits...."

My posts and your replies started with Aristarchus Crater. I would assert that it is you who is skirting the issue by throwing all of these other undecernable blobs of images at us. As far as your anomalies, most are too low-res to make any conclusions. The only one of the posted images that is interesting is the rectangular feature near crater 306.

But again I don't know why you are bringing all these images up when I was focusing on Ari.C ??

Originally posted by zorgon
all the evidence and support for those images I hand picked have been shown on this thread repeatedly and are all available on thelivinmoon.com or landoflegends... which has been repeatedly linked to by myself John and Undo... and those clips are taken from the Copernicus images that are from John that are the whole purpose of this thread...The location of all images I post are also underneath each image

Great! So you have undeniable proof aka: evidence to support that there is an ALIEN EXCAVATOR on the moon?! Wowzers!

Because if all you have is an image that has been enhanced well I have to say, keep digging! I am not convinced and I'm sure many others won't be either by the pink blob below. I want to believe to but not in something that is not there, thats like believing in the EASTER BUNNY (I still believe i do i do)!

The Ancient Derelict Excavator

Originally posted by greatlakes
Does it just LOOK like an ancient derelict excavator to you?

Yup... along with the rest of the area this is found in on the image that has been extensively covered HERE

What about objective and neutral naming of this image?

Why? whats wrong with the names? NASA does it all the time.. labeling a rock outcrop that looks like a face as "Roosevelt" or the famous "Blueberries" on Mars "because they looked like blueberries in a muffin"...

If its good enough for NASA scientists its good enough for me. People label things as they see them... The name "Peekaboo" came about that way... perhaps not the best choice for what we think they are, but its become an affectionate term now and there is no we we are going to change it.

Or do you have some sort of proof to support this claim to uphold your ATS requirements?

I asked you for your opinion on those anomalies to see if you would give us a respectable response and to see your mind set. Thank you for your opinion

I was offering some logical theories, maybe just as logical as your "Ancient Alien Derelict Excavator" image, but nonetheless, a theory as to POSSIBLE causes for the blue light.

I know... and there are many possibilities...

So does that mean you don't have links to the volcanoes and gas?

Originally posted by zorgon
So does that mean you don't have links to the volcanoes and gas?

Wait you have researched the moon extensively and you still need EVIDENCE of volcanic activity on the moon??!

Just tilt your head to the sky tonight and take a look at the moon. You will see highlands and dark areas called mare. The mare is from lava flows *many moons ago*

You can also see channels from lava flows all over any images of the moon. Gee has volcanic activity on the moon existed-errrr yes.

Can we see some scant activity still to this day? Take a gander and maybe add this to your research.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The Moon may not be the dead and unchanging world that many scientists believe. From time to time, parts of it may stir in a pale reminder of the volcanic and meteoric violence of its youth.

Some astronomers, who claim to have seen what they term as transient lunar phenomena (TLP) on its surface, have long suspected that there is some activity on the Moon.

For more than 450 years, there have been reports of TLP's - bright flashes to reddish or bluish glows hovering over certain craters and valleys. There are several explanations for them - weak volcanic activity, perhaps, or the escape of gasses trapped beneath the Moon's surface, or even impact by meteors.

Many lunar geologists have doubted their existence. The Moon, they have argued, is a dead world. There might perhaps be a rock fall here and there, or a small impact by a meteor, but the possibility that volcanic outgassing might be going on has not been regarded as a plausible theory.

But now seemingly definitive evidence has been obtained that strange things do happen sometimes on the Moon. During its two-month mapping mission in 1996, the Clementine lunar orbiting satellite returned over two million images. For astronomers, they provided an unprecedented opportunity to study the question of TLP's.

And a plume on the moon:


There are lots more articles concerning TLP's and possibly NON-DEAD moon, possible scant atmosphere on the moon etc. Do a search.

Ummmm...Guys ?

Whats with all this bs...Aren't we forgetting the purpose of this thread ?

How about taking this kinda debate elsewhere, cos we've been thru these same arguments many times at various points in this post...

Thanks

P.S - I don't mean the last two or three posts between you two, I mean the ones before that where there was a fair element of bickering going on...

Edit - For afterthought

[edit on 25-5-2007 by Rilence]

Yeah I agree, besides I don't think zorgon will EVER post his comments about my Aristarchus Crater posts anyway...

Originally posted by greatlakes

I have some fluffy cloud images for you to look at in that case, maybe you can interpret those for me...

Yes, please post those fluffy cloud images greatlakes. We have a few from NASA but we could use a few more. I am trying to prove that there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon and your pictures of clouds could possibly help.

A few months ago we had another poster, much like yourself, whose message was similar to yours: if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck doesn't necessarily mean it IS a duck! He proposed more serious critical thinking; that our senses could easily be deceived into thinking it was really a duck just because it looked, walked and quacked like a duck.

This thread was started with an unairbrushed photo of Copernicus which clearly showed, vapor (both rising and descending), buildings (what looked like a 3 story parking garage), excavators and other structures of intelligent design and construction.

The thread has been augmented with photos of other structures, buildings and artifacts from other NASA photos. LO-3-84M clearly showed a 6 mile high tower near Mosting A in the Sinus Medii. There are 2 other Lunar Orbiter photos that show the same object. On top of the 6 mile high tower is a cube measuring approximately 1 mile on each side. Now, no matter how critical your thinking is (that is, unless it is critically deficient) someone put or built that tower there.

There is the Spaceport (or airline terminal as Richard Hoagland calls it) with all kinds of associated structure, tubes, supports etc. near Komonosov. It is in the area below Joliet Curie, on the farside, which has been obscured with NASA 'white out' which they euphemistically call 'white ejecta'. Now we all know what 'white ejecta' is but that is what NASA calls it and who am I to disagree.

We have sequential photos taken by the Lick Observatory over a 9 year period showing massive construction at the Agarum Promontory in Mare Crisium. Even the most critical of thinkers would be hard pressed to consider rocks growing over that short of a period of time, or assembling themselves into a huge crane-like appearing construct.

A Lick Observatory photo of the moon from 1946 clearly shows a huge explosion creating a clearly definable column of dust not only formed and traveling horizontally but then ascending in a definable cloud shape to the top of the moons atmosphere (or for those with no scientific backgound a level where the dust and dirt scatter because of a lack of atmospheric pressure.)

Then from Lunar Orbiter August 23, 1966 we have a beautifully detailed farside picture of a huge mining operation with roads, dust sprays, tubular structures, equipment and a control tower.

The Lick Observatory photos of the nearside photographed in the 1930's and 1940's clearly show artifacts of intelligent design, buildings, structures but most important of all, each Lick photo has evidence of tampering done on Aristarchus. It is always shown as an indefinable white blob (ejecta) when a simple 10" telescope shows otherwise. Now the question here is why would the government (or the people who operate the Lick Obsevatory) go to all the trouble of making sure that Aristarchus was whited out if there was nothing there but a milk drop?

You say you are not an expert. I am not an expert either, but....my thoughts on intelligently designed and constructed structures on the moon are that if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...it is 'intelligently designed structures all over the moon!'

So here is the deal. If you would like to conduct a critical thinking class here on ATS you have every right to do so. But I respectfully request that you do not hijack this thread with pictures of milk drops telling us that that is what Aristarchus is. Thanks.

Well said post. I agree the Copernicus (LO images) have some possible structures and are pretty amazing images. I also think that the moon and mars have some sort of an atmosphere and we are being kept in the dark by nasa and others, but we all need to be reminded to always keep an objective eye to every anomaly seen and not to blindly accept the image enhancements presented by anyone, regardless of them being an expert or not.

You say you are not an expert. I am not an expert either, but....my thoughts on intelligently designed and constructed structures on the moon are that if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...it is 'intelligently designed structures all over the moon!'

Never said there weren't intelligently designed artifacts/structures all over the moon. I think you guys are so JADED by getting attacked by SKEPTICS that you are all on the defensive. I believe there ARE intelligent structures on the moon, but this started with me talking about ARISTARCHUS CRATER. Other posts have clouded this topic when I have only posted ideas relating to to Ari.C.

Originally posted by johnlear

So here is the deal. If you would like to conduct a critical thinking class here on ATS you have every right to do so. But I respectfully request that you do not hijack this thread with pictures of milk drops telling us that that is what Aristarchus is.

I didn't know that I was hijacking a thread, I am only posting logically and in some cases agree, and in other cases do not blindly follow the flock regarding these anomalies. Or do you just want ONE VIEWPOINT posts from all ats'ers visiting this thread? Only one side of the coin? Anyone posting any differing opinions based on observation, critical thinking, logic and research is accused of hijacking a thread?

I respectively beg to differ and the milk drop and other examples show us in a better light just how some of your anomalies can be created by nature and the ATS member needs to see ALL ASPECTS of the story before we can start to DENY IGNORANCE.




[edit on 25-5-2007 by greatlakes]

Originally posted by greatlakes
Wait you have researched the moon extensively and you still need EVIDENCE of volcanic activity on the moon??!

Just tilt your head to the sky tonight and take a look at the moon. You will see highlands and dark areas called mare. The mare is from lava flows *many moons ago*

You can also see channels from lava flows all over any images of the moon. Gee has volcanic activity on the moon existed-errrr yes.

LOL very good... but as I recall you gave CURRENT lunar vulcanic activity and fluorescent gasses as a plausible reason for the blue glow of Aristarchus... I am well aware of ancient lunar lava flows... I have even seen a piece of it up close... and I have many files of TLP's showing anything from short lived cloud observations, to venting gasses to lights that blink on an off taken by the Clementine satellite...

I simply asked you to post reference material to go along with your theory, thats all. Surely not too much trouble?

And on that "bump or hole" issue... please visit this website and have a look at the revolving mask... some of us here have no trouble seeing which is the hollow back side, but can switch our "view" to see both or either

www.michaelbach.de...

Originally posted by greatlakes

Or do you just want ONE VIEWPOINT posts from all ats'ers visiting this thread? Only one side of the coin? Anyone posting any differing opinions based on observation, critical thinking, logic and research is accused of hijacking a thread?

We accept differing viewpoints on this thread as long as they agree with ours. Alternatively, let me respectfully suggest you start your own thread. I suggest a possible title as, "Is Aristarchus Just A Milk Drop? A Logical Look At John Lear's Moon Pictures of ATS." Thanks

Originally posted by zorgon

And on that "bump or hole" issue... please visit this website and have a look at the revolving mask... some of us here have no trouble seeing which is the hollow back side, but can switch our "view" to see both or either

Sure, some can easily switch in their minds the bump/dimple images. Point was that in regards to Ari.C, some possibly FALSE conclusions have been made that the crater has "dome like" structure in an octagonal pattern.

Where have these conclusions been made? For one on this site:

www.thelivingmoon.com...

You will notice the symmetrical dome like structure of the "crater" as well as the bright blue glow that literally lights up the surrounding area!! The overall effect is that of plasma energy emitting from the dome, or at least very bright light. Even if one were to believe that this was reflected Earth light, it would still mean there was a bright reflective structure here.

It can be a dome like protrusion, or it can be a depression made by impact from a mile wide asteroid in that shape.

Originally posted by johnlear
We accept differing viewpoints on this thread as long as they agree with ours.

So you are in a way censoring your thread? Kicking to the side any alternate and logical viewpoints from any ATS'er that may happen by this thread?

If thats the case, I just hope all that visit here take all PAST POSTS with a grain of salt and as being POSSIBLY CENSORED and/or *approved* by John Lear.

Remember those political messages by our politicians?

"This ATS post meets John Lears Approval"

or

"My name is John Lear and I approve this message"

I only hope that this is not how we all "Deny Ignorance" on this thread or any other. The only exception possibly on the "ATS SKUNK WORKS" thread.

Originally posted by greatlakes

Originally posted by johnlear
We accept differing viewpoints on this thread as long as they agree with ours.

So you are in a way censoring your thread? Kicking to the side any alternate and logical viewpoints from any ATS'er that may happen by this thread?

If thats the case, I just hope all that visit here take all PAST POSTS with a grain of salt and as being POSSIBLY CENSORED and/or *approved* by John Lear.

Remember those political messages by our politicians?

"This ATS post meets John Lears Approval"

or

"My name is John Lear and I approve this message"

I only hope that this is not how we all "Deny Ignorance" on this thread or any other. The only exception possibly on the "ATS SKUNK WORKS" thread.

Agreed, GreatLakes...

I would have thought this post (like every other post on ATS) was very much open to debate with regards to the information presented within it...

I would have thought doing so would be healthy for any issue, with regards to getting close to any "truth" or fact" with regard to said issue...

Well said, my friend

Tony