What Don't You Understand About Another's Race, Ethnicity or Culture?

Majic, you said:

Originally quoted by Majic

Yes, this is Slug-Fest, but this hit-and-run passive-aggressive sniping tactic of yours is counterproductive to open debate.

Now that is a personal attack. I don't have passive/aggressive behavior. And I don't like it when you use the insult of another member to describe me.

I don't think it is fair that you single me out of all the posters especially when a few others have posted derogatory views in this thread.

Now I honestly asked a question about Austrailians. I would like an answer. I'm sorry that riley took it the wrong way. Usually she never takes anything I do the right way anyhow. And I hoped you noticed that she was wrong in her assessment in my posts with Rockpuck. Very, very wrong.

So I asked if Austrailians were less condescending and more open-minded. Not to mention less impudent. After all, I wonder that because most of the other Austrailians I have encountered are much more laid back, kind and generous people. And if I met yet another one, I might have to cringe if they jump off the bat at everything that I say. That is why I wanted to ask for another view. And I did open the question to any Austrailian posters who could answer this.

I would suggest to you that please to follow your own advice and focus on "everyone" and their comments as well. It is getting very fascinating that I am the one singled out every time by you.

I don't want to insinuate anything, but of course, I might if it keeps up.






[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Does that sound any better? i suppose someone will be offended, but I had to ask anyway.

I'm not the 'feelings' police or anything I just wanted to add my thoughts on the subject and your question was perfect to illustrate my point. Nothing personal. I know you had no ill-intent. And I do hope that a good-hearted, self-assured European can answer your question.

BTW, my experience with Europeans is very different than yours. Ahhhh... I remember a particular French man. Now there was a nice-smelling man! *heavy sigh* But, I digress...

Excuse me while I digress...

Deleted to make Ceci happy.

[edit on 9/13/2006 by FlyersFan]

FlyersFan, I would like to ask you to refrain from following my threads because that is truly constituted as stalking.

If you cannot contribute to the subject of the thread, please it is best not to say anything at all.

And right now, you are seriously derailing the thread. You are not following the T and C guidelines.

Wouldn't you like to avoid the constant stress and not post here altogether unless you can think of something truly constructive to say?


[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

deleted to make Ceci happy.

[edit on 9/13/2006 by FlyersFan]

And re-editing, posting and misconstruing my words and making fun of them is not?

And yes, it is. It is derailing the thread. The last time I looked, you were not a subject expert or a mod. Please refrain from harassing me.

This is another thread that I posted in peace. I want to keep it positive for everyone's experience.

It is best that you possess the same peace and find like minded people who appreciate your kind of posting elsewhere.





[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not the 'feelings' police or anything

I just wanted to add my thoughts on the subject and your question was perfect to illustrate my point. Nothing personal. I know you had no ill-intent. And I do hope that a good-hearted, self-assured European can answer your question.

BTW, my experience with Europeans is very different than yours. Ahhhh... I remember a particular French man. Now there was a nice-smelling man! *heavy sigh* But, I digress...

Excuse me while I digress...

Well, in the spirit of fairness, Ill give an example that was presented to me.

I was asked once why Americans have no fashion sense by Belgian when I was visiting friends in Luxembourg. She said Americans are terrible dressers.

I asked her exactly what she meant, to define bad dressing. She said, they wear jeans even when they go out, or cheap, plain clothing, and they seldom wear anything tasteful or fashionable, except at weddings or formal events. They have no designer taste.

I explained that most Americans, because our culture and society is very informal and casual, that people wear clothing that is practical and comfortable. Like casual slacks or jeans at the office. People in the states just wear whatever is clean and handy, is comfortable and useful for the situation at hand, and that alot of people cant really afford designer gear. Americans like one size fits all wardrobes, clothes for every occasion becayse you never know when things will change.

She thought I would be offended by her comment, as I was targeted. When ever Id go out partying, id wear a nice shirt/sweater/blouse with jeans and boots and makeup. Judging by general fashion in Europe, I could understand why she thought Americans are poorly dressed and have bad fashion sense. On a continent that has most of the big fashion designers, where damn near everyone who is out of the town wears fashionable suits, slacks, dresses, ect, Americans walking around in Jeans, baseball caps, and tennis shoes would indeed seem to be dressed like slobs.

Its cultural percpetion. Thats why I am asking. i have my own cultural perceptions. I wanted to know what others say.

Now I honestly asked a question about Austrailians. I would like an answer.

Your question is biggoted and does not warrent an answer.

I'm sorry that riley took it the wrong way.

You have got to be kidding right? There was no taking what you said 'out of context'.. it was very straight forward. Nice try but you've lost all credibilty so it doesn't wash anymore.

So I asked if Austrailians were less condescending and more open-minded. Not to mention less impudent.

You have a habbit of doing this. You called me names.. were asked to cut it out by the mods then have made a point of repeating the insults to stick it to the mods. :shk:

After all, I wonder that because most of the other Austrailians I have encountered are much more laid back. kind and generous people.

Oh you sound so innocent. I see.. because i do not appreciate your racial slurs and personal attacks and don't take them 'as a joke' or as 'being blunt' I'm not laid back and generous..?

And if I met yet another one, I might have to cringe if they jump off the bat at everything that I say.

How about NOT insulting people? Ever considered that? Do not blame other peoples' sensitivities for your bad behaviour.

I would suggest to you that please to follow your own advice and focus on "everyone" and their comments as well. It is getting very fascinating that I am the one singled out every time by you.

Indeed he has made a general request [ie. to everybody] as well as mentioing your attack on me. What.. is he suppose to ignore it when you break the rules?

I don't want to insinuate anything, but of course, I might if it keeps up.

You just did.. and you added a veiled threat.

STOP attacking me.. it's starting to piss me off and I DO NOT deserve it.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by riley]

And riley, you should really try not to make the situation confrontational. I was told not to do it again.

Do not address my posts ever again.

I do not want to ever address your questions again to keep the peace.

Please do not post any information or advice to me.

Please do not critique my posts.

If you have any information to share, please post a scholarly article that everyone can read.

And yes, you were incorrect in your assessment. Very incorrect.

Duzey corrected you, not me.

And no, I did not call you names or make any racial slurs in this thread. I never addressed you in my questions after the initial one. In the first one, I only asked if all Austrailians were like you.

And word to the wise: Austrailians are many races. They are not just one race. There were no racial slurs involved. I did ask about a "national culture".

You were pretty much dismissed after that because basically I really wanted to know what was the temperment of the Austrailian people.

You do not know how to address people. You didn't on my first thread. You didn't on my second thread. And now, you certainly didn't do it on my third. You even admitted as much. And unfortunately, you have the bad behavior. You always did.

I think it's best you avoid my subjects and posts all together so that you won't feel so "pissed off" in the future. Instead, spend your time trying to heal your wounds.

And no, I did not make a veiled threat. Unfortunately, that is all in your mind. Please do not make such accusations again.








[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
most of the other Austrailians I have encountered are much more laid back. kind and generous people.

Well, then you have your answer, don't you? Most Australians you've met are laid back, kind and generous. Seeing as how that's your experience, clearly the only possible explanation for asking riley such a pointed question would be to insult her.

I don't want to insinuate anything, but of course, I might if it keeps up.

You already have insinuated. You don't need to threaten the mods with your power of insinuation.

This whole Austrailian line of questioning is what I was concerned about. I'm sorry to see it happening already.

BTW, I have never met an Australian who was anything less than wonderfully personable and gracious. So I'll add that stereotype into the mix if it helps any.

Thank you for answering my post, BH.

Perhaps that will start to keep the peace around here so that the previous situation does not spiral out of control.

But I didn't threaten anyone. I just said, it might be perceived as something else. And that could mean anything in the scheme of things. I am so very clueless with what you are trying to say about my "insinuating".


[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
And riley, you should really try not to make the situation confrontational.

So I'm suppose to just take your attacks and not defend myself?

I was told not to do it again. I won't if you please follow my requests.

Is that the third time or are you reffering to the time where you ignored requests? It's tough keeping count..

Do not address my posts ever again.

I do as I please.. when you say something offensive I will point it out. The trick is to not be offensive.

I do not want to ever address your questions again to keep the peace.

Thats not a way to keep the peace.. how about not attacking me, other people or other races?

Please do not post any information or advice to me.

Please? How polite of you.. care to offer up an apology for all the name calling, racist and personal attacks while your at it? How about aplogising to all those you likened to slaveowners and KKK? That would be polite too!

Take responsibilty.

Please do not critique my posts.

If I see something that is personally offensive I WILL critique your posts. These 'offensive' thing include personal and biggoted attacks on me and on others. [sorry guys I know I'm repeating myself]. I do not like to see people being bullied as I have endured much persecution in my life.. ATS should be safe for everybody. I would rather see you change your attitudes rather than have you leave.

If you have any information to share, please post a scholarly article that everyone can read.

Oh.. but I thought I wasn't alloud to post anymore?

And yes, you were incorrect in your assessment. Very incorrect.

So what? The term 'white' has been continually been used to describe ango saxons in a derogative context. Make up your mind which race is the oppressor.

Duzey corrected you, not me.

I'm sorry that you STILL cannot comprehend why sorting people into 'white' and 'black' categries is wrong. :shk:

And no, I did not call you names.

Yeah you did.. though you tried to sidestep the rules I noticed.

You were pretty much dismissed after that because basically I really wanted to know what was the temperment of the Austrailian people.

Which temperment is that? Oh thats right.. the names you called me. Can't you even see when you contradict yourself?

You do not know how to address people.

You didn't on my first thread. You didn't on my second thread. And now, you certain didn't do it on my third.

Actually I started off concise and respectful. It was when you said things like [paraphrased] 'People only cared about the holocaust because Jews are a 'white race' that got my back up. :shk:

Let me guess.. that was out of context too right..? I addressed you appropriately.

I think it's best you avoid my subjects and posts all together so that you won't feel so "pissed off" in the future.

Bit off more than you can chew eh? I think you should practice what you preach instead of using the issue of racism to justify abusing people. It's immoral. It's also strange that you are suggesting ways I can avoid getting pissed off at your posts when clearly the whole point of your posts is to piss people off..

[edit on 13-9-2006 by riley]

I mean it. Please do not address my posts again.

What do you not understand about that?

[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

The more I think about this subject, the more I find it interesting and, as with many human endeavors, filled with contradictions.

I see a strong danger of furthering of stereotypes, as mentioned by BH.

For instance:


Why are all Jews so good with money?
Why do Americans wear blue jeans all the time?
Why are Americans so infatuated with their cars?
Why are black people so good at sports?


And on and on. All of these kinds of questions do, in my opinion, encourage the stereotyping of people, which is a dis-service to people.

On the other hand, a question such as Where did Blues music come from? might fit here. Blues (as I understand it) is an evolution of Black Gospel music, which grew out of what was then called Negro Spiritual music, which began as a mechanism used by slaves in America to maintain some degree of sanity in an insane situation.

However, even this question is not something I would pose to someone because they were black. I would pose it to someone who was interested and learned in the roots of Blues music. That person may or may not be black; their color or ethnicity would be irrelevant to whether they knew about Blues.

So I'm a bit bemused here (not an unusual position for me ).

Another example: In my life, I have met people from all over the world. In most cases, I have met more than one person from everywhere. Some I have liked, some not so much. Except Australians. I have never met an Australian that I did not like quite a bit.

So, Aussies... how come I like all of you guys?

Originally posted by ceci2006
I mean it. Please do not address my posts again.

What do you not understand about that?

Ceci, I don't think you understand that you don't have the authority to tell people what to address and what not to address. As the thread-starter, you have no 'special powers' of controlling what is said in the thread, who posts in the thread or whether or not they address you.

Epecially requesting that the mods leave your thread in Slug-Fest and purposefully starting it in Slug-Fest instead of Social Issues indicates that you expect some... slugging. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you specifically start out in the kitchen, don't be surprised that 'we're cooking with gas'.

By the way, you were the first to hurl an insult in this thread. Regardless how many times you blame everyone else, you started it and set the tone for your own thread. Don't be surprised if people play by the rules that you throw down.

That's my experiance with Aussies too. I've met dozens over the years in many different social situations and I've yet to meet one I haven't liked. How strange. Maybe I have a genetic predisposition to like Austrailians? Or maybe, just maybe, Austrailians totally rock!

Exploring different cultures is fun, and enlightening...maybe this isn't adding much to the conversation, but its already becoming rather too heated...again...

Well, BH, I want to keep the peace. The only way to do that is to not have her address my comments. In turn, I will not address hers.

What is wrong about that?

It is better for the both of us because we do not have to confront each other. I do not want to deal with her anymore. I've made it explicitly clear. The next time, I will not answer her at all. I asked as a simple courtesy. And I want to deal with the topic.

Furthermore, my request about the thread not being moved was made not because of the "confrontational style" of what might become of it. My inquiry was done because of other reasons that I would like to be discreet about. You or anyone else may u2u me about those reasons, but I can stand the heat, thank you very much. I did so on my "race-relations" thread for 40+ pages now.

And on topic, no OMS, it does not further stereotypes to do a thread like this. People are curious about each other. They have these questions in the back of their minds all the time. I see this thread as an educative one as long as people are forthright in answering the questions of one another.

And people also have a chance to explain a little of themselves to make others understand.

Now, that is not promoting stereotyping. It is promoting a service to breaking down stereotypes instead of perpetuating them.

And the reference to blues music was a way to show that Blacks do not have a "child-like simplicity" in using soul and spirit. The blues represent a type of music that talks about stories. The art form also mentions a way of coping with the way things are. That is why it is beautiful music because it is a way of dealing with the sorrows and joys of life that would resonate with all of us. Black people especially sung the blues because they expressed their hurts, despair and their trials during living in a time of segregation and afterward, when they still had to deal with the system.

It is similar to Spirituals. Songs became a way Black people expressed themselves even in the times of slavery--because there were laws that did not permit the slaves to congregate amongst themselves or speak to one another for fear of a slave revolt. They were not allowed read. They were also not allowed to attend church because those legalities. Songs quietly were used as a form of dissent against the system. That is why people sang, "We Shall Overcome" during the Civil Rights Era as they marched in the streets while protesting the segregation conditions fostered by Jim Crow laws.

And no, seagull, it is not being heated as long as people stick to the questions and if others use this thread in the right way.

And thanks you guys, for talking about Austrailians. I appreciate the information.






[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Well, BH, I want to keep the peace. The only way to do that is to not have her address my comments.

No. That's not the only way. You can ignore or refuse to respond to comments you find inflammatory. I do it all the time.

In turn, I will not address hers.

This is not "Let's Make a Deal". You choose your actions, she chooses hers.

What is wrong about that?

The only thing that's wrong is that you can't control her actions. She is autonomous. The only person's actions you can control are yours.

It is better for the both of us because we do not have to confront each other.

No one is twisting your arm. You do not HAVE to confront anyone.

I do not want to deal with her anymore.

Then don't. It's fully your choice.

The next time, I will not answer her at all.

There you go. If you can't respond without confrontation, that may be the best course of action.

Indeed it is. I do not want to address her. I want to stick to the topic and not cause further disruption.

You see, I understand what Majic said. And I am trying to follow it to a tee. After all, I do not want to be singled out anymore. Furthermore, I do not want to contribute to the animus that is already there between myself and riley. So, it is best not to answer her comments again. It is not that I am avoiding her questions. I would, believe me, answer them in a second. However, it is my choice that I do not want to deal with her again.

As for riley, I know I cannot "control" her. I never set out to anyway. I assertively made a suggestion to her not to answer my posts again. It is up to her if she possesses the practicality of the situation and demonstrates the notion of peace to make it happen for the greater good of the thread.

I've tried negotiation and politeness with her. I have even apologized to her. It has failed. There is nothing more I can do. I am sorry that our relations on the board has deteoriated to this state, but they have.

I'm sure riley does not want to be pissed off again. The fewer words addressed to her, the better.

So actually, this is a win-win situation for everyone if you think about it.

Now, it is time to get back to the topic.





[edit on 13-9-2006 by ceci2006]

Aussies,

What a great subtopic.
First of all, I met quite a number of Aussies, over the last couple of weeks.
Open, full of humour, great to talk to.
I also met an actor/director from New Zealand. A kiwi (is that derogatory? kiwi?)

Anyway
For any Aussies here, what kind of regional relationship is there between New Zealanders, and Austrailians? Is it somewhat competitive?

I had a hard time distinguishing the two accents. Would it have been insulting for me to call an Aussie, a Kiwi? Or Vice Versa?