Jews Vs Muslims

this is all very fasinationg and informative, but we seem to have got off topic a little, i just want to know, why halfd the time the jews seem to monopolise everything and the other half they try to suppress others cultures and beliefs and in the process try to force us to do they bidding

Originally posted by Beacon
this is all very fasinationg and informative, but we seem to have got off topic a little, i just want to know, why halfd the time the jews seem to monopolise everything and the other half they try to suppress others cultures and beliefs and in the process try to force us to do they bidding

I think your statements are a bit strong. The Jews certainly have a great deal of influence in America and elsewhere around the world, but they mostly get that influence through persuasion, not force.

What monopolization are you speaking of? Further, who are they trying to suppress? If you're going to make statements like the above, you really need to offer more details about your thinking and why you think that way.

posted by Astronomer70
I think your statements are a bit strong, Beacon. Jews have a great deal of influence in America and elsewhere, but they get that influence through persuasion, not force.

What monopolization are you speaking of? Who are they trying to suppress? If you make statements like the above, you really need to offer more details about your thinking and why you think that way. [Edited by Don W]

Absolutely! Personal anecdote. In my hometown of Louisville, the number of Jewish persons is 5% of the population. If you count the number of doctors, lawyers and CPAs in the phone book, you will find the Jewish persons are about 20% of the professional population. This is because Jews stick to business. They learn this early in life. Victims of Christian persecution since 70 AD, they have good reason to be wary. Free advice: If you are in a strange city and get sick, look in the phone book for a Jewish (or Asian) doctor. You’re chances to recover are much better. That’s reality.

This does not mean I give a free pass to the State of Israel. In fact, I am highly critical of Israel since 1982. Except for Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli’s have had a succession of midgets as Prime Minister. It’s beginning to take its toll. Moshe Dyan conquered the Sinai, Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights in 7 days. Just one day longer than it took God to make the world. Olmert could not get to the Litani River in 34 days. Hmmm?



[edit on 9/1/2006 by donwhite]

This is a centuries old conflict and is not going to be solved anytime soon, IMHO.

The premise, unless I am mistaken, of the OP is that the Jewish people are the movers and shakers behind everything of importance. Shame on them for being successful...how dare they.

The Jewish people are as a whole paranoid...and deservedly so. For centuries, almost beyond count, pogroms have been launched against them for the crime of being more successful then their neighbors...oh the excuses given never say THAT of course, but that is their crime (?) nothing more, nothing less.

Donwhite.

I agree that the past few PM's of Israel have been midgets. Moshe Dyan would not have taken 34 days to get, well basically no where. He'd have got the job done, and not cared in the slightest what anyone thought. Ben Gurien, and the others of that generation were the giants upon who's shoulders these past few midgets have stood. I don't see their like in Israel today...I hope I am wrong. Israel needs them desperately.

I know you and I won't agree on that slant....

posted by seagull

I agree that the past few PM's of Israel have been midgets. Moshe Dyan would not have taken 34 days to get, well basically no where. He'd have got the job done, and not cared in the slightest what anyone thought. Ben Gurien, and the others of that generation were the giants upon who's shoulders these past few midgets have stood. I don't see their like in Israel today...I hope I am wrong. Israel needs them desperately.

I know you and I won't agree on that slant...

.

It sometimes takes more courage to make peace than it takes to make war. Peace requires the heavy lifting begin afer it is in place. War requires the heavy lifting before it begins. Well, except for the Gang of Four.

PS. Although I disagreed with his policy, I did have a certain admiration for Ariel Sharon. Sadly, is he to be another Terri Schiavo or even a Carolyn Quinlan. Maybe they should call some of the NO doctors in on a consult?

You are correct, we agree again..., that it sometimes takes more courage to talk peace than to make war. I am sure Sadat and Begin can attest to that. It ultimately cost them their lives....

It is unfortunate, that for every peacttalker, there seem to be ten who want nothing to do with it. Sometimes seems that the peacetalkers are deemed more dangerous than the ones who would kill. Doesn't say much for us, does it?

This is twice now, maybe there is hope for us yet .

In a complete aside issue: I love your signature.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by seagull]

[edit on 1-9-2006 by seagull]

Originally posted by Astronomer70

I think your statements are a bit strong. The Jews certainly have a great deal of influence in America and elsewhere around the world, but they mostly get that influence through persuasion, not force.

I agree I have a cousin marry to a Rabbi in NY, she lives like a queen in Rhode Island.

The are all for business but they also are embedded in our government and dictating the way foreign policies are to be conducted by our American government.

To that extend I am very worry.

About Sharon, he was not the best liked leader but he was in my eyes the best so far that Israel go.

He showed restrain and common sense in the eyes of opposition and dealings with Arafat and the Palestinian issue.

The new leader now in Israel is in the same agenda as Bush here in the US.

There is another thread on pretty much the same topic as this one, it's called "Why does the world hate the Jews?" I posted some drivel there that I think may be appropriate here.

First, I want to say I don't think the world hates the Jews, that word is stronger than the reality. I think the world largley does not accept the Jews as members of their groups (wherever they may be). Mostly however I think the Jews tend to cause this feeling--probably inadvertently by refusing to become part of the greater group surrounding them. Jews, for the most part, stick together and help one another through life. You might say other groups do this as well, but they don't do it to the same extent as the Jews. While the Jews help & support one another, they don't seem to want to help the greater group nearly as much as others in that group. This is not to say Jews are trouble makers, or refuse to participate in civic programs, relief & welfare efforts, etc. It's just that they don't try to fit into and become part of the greater group nearly as much as others do. They tend to hold themselves apart from the greater group no matter how long they have been wherever they are. Other people sense this and react to it--generally in a bad way. It's not that they hate the Jews, it's that the Jews won't let themselves be assimilated by the group.

Very interesting.

A lot of posts about the failings of the Jews and their goverments. In depth discussions of their role in US politics, the moral failings of their leadership, their animosity toward their neighbors.


Odd, but I can't seem to find any scrutiny of "muslims."

What about their role in US politics? No one has asked why the US has not built a new refinery since 1976, or why Prince Bandar was allowed to race his winning horse in the Kentucky Derby in 2002, when there were serious questions about his financing of the 9-11 terrorists, especially when his horse-raising "hobby" could have figured into the movement of large amounts of US currency in and out of the states.

No one has questioned the fact that the "Key-8" chain of gas stations in the USA has the Emir of Kuwait for its majority stockholder.

Or the way that various muslim states are having a large say in how we police our own borders and ports . . .

---

What about the leaders of Muslim states? Everyone has posted about the evil Omert; but no mention of Assad or Amen-ajad.

Let's see, several people post about how Jews target muslims; yet not a sentence about car bombs, taking hostages off buses, or suicide bombings of synagogues.


======

Notice, I'm not disagreeing with the statements anyone has made yet.

Just questioning the . . . silence.

.

dr_strangecraft if you can't find any scrutiny of Muslims on ATS I suggest you look around, posts to that end are commonplace. Heck criticizing the Muslims is easy, they make it that way through their rhetoric and actions. Criticizing the Jews is much more difficult and tends to bring out their defenders in droves.

Originally posted by Astronomer70
dr_strangecraft if you can't find any scrutiny of Muslims on ATS I suggest you look around, posts to that end are commonplace. Heck criticizing the Muslims is easy, they make it that way through their rhetoric and actions. Criticizing the Jews is much more difficult and tends to bring out their defenders in droves.

Ah, but check out the title of this thread.

Why should the Jews, or anyone elso for that matter, need to become part of the whole? If all they want is to be left alone to worship as they choose, and are no danger to others around them, why should they not live away from the group if they so choose?

Of course, doing just that is what has made problems for the Jewish people in the past, and continues to do so now. That seems to me though to be other peoples issue, not the Jews.

Your average workaday Muslim/Jew merely wants to be left alone to live, work, and worship as their various faiths decree. Personally I have no issue with this, though neither faith is my own, they're no more evil than I. However, when one or the other begins waging a war, I hesitate to call a war holy, to force people to enlightenment at "swordpoint" well let's just say I'll tend to gravitate towards the other in my support.

The foaming fanatics on both sides are the issue here.

(edit)

To complete my thoughts on the foaming fanatics on both sides.

Israel at least attempts to control its more virulent fanatics...sometimes they have a bit more luck than at others.

Muslim nations, with a few exceptions (Algeria, Jordan, and Eqypt...there may be more, but those are the 3 that leap out at me), don't attempt on any meaningful level to do so. Infact, tacit approval is all too often what I percieve to be the case.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by seagull]

You know you may be right seagull, but I see the whole situation of Muslin vs Israel as a very well orchestrated plan to gain sympathies for one particular side, while demoralizing and even demonizing the other one.

Nobody seems to care of what motives may have brought and entire region to the point and situation that is right now.

But exploiting the present is what many care about.

While the propaganda to gain support for the other side is at the top of the agenda.

Peoples mind tend to be of short term and that has been exploited also.

For what purpose? For an agenda that has nothing to do with keeping the world safe but rather to gain control of certain resources.

There is relative safety in numbers seagull, that's why people join up in groups. I tend to agree with you that it isn't really necessary now as much as it used to be, but as you point out the proclivity of the Jews to live somewhat apart from the greater group has and is still causing them problems. Strangely, I don't think the Jews would have anywhere near the tolerance problems they have now if they were not as successful as they are. To some extent I believe there is a general envy of the Jews by the greater group of humanity.

Originally posted by Astronomer70
To some extent I believe there is a general envy of the Jews by the greater group of humanity.

I will like very much is you may tell us in which respect could be Israel the envy of other nations in the world.

Because the struggles of them in the middle east are actually for nobody to envy at all.

It is because religion?

Israel as a nation has hardly been able to exist without the aid of both the church and of Western and European powers. The Islamic nations for the most part do not need billions of our tax dollars every year in order to survive. USrael is a joke and as a nation it will never survive much longer on their own.

The shame is how many Jewish people and Judeo-Christians have been so caught up on the myth of "ISRAEL" being chosen. If they decided to grow up and understand that no land, no religion and NO RACE is "Chosen", than the people could at least pretend to live in peace.

You have voted JudahMaccabbi for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Very well put and articulate.

Accurate as well, but you will not find it well received on here. I gave up on that and accepted the face of hypocrisy when this issue is discussed here.

However, I salute your attempt at exposing the truth!!

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis

You have voted JudahMaccabbi for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Very well put and articulate. Accurate as well, but you will not find it well received on here. I gave up on that and accepted the face of hypocrisy when this issue is discussed here. However, I salute your attempt at exposing the truth!!

Semper

Oh, I sure hope you're joking. That particular post was not worth any points (other than insurance may be) and I'm wondering if you just happen to pass around points in public, in some vain attempt to lift your own ideas upon the pedestal?

Since you choose to do this praising in public, certainly you would not mind me (and others) telling you that you just wasted good points on much conjecture that in-of-itself, insults Jewish people by implying they rule over everything.

And I'm sure you wont mind me asserting that your comments are the strangest perspective I would ever imagine.

But you are also entitled to your opinion, no matter how strange it may be.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
And I'm sure you wont mind me asserting that your comments are the strangest perspective I would ever imagine. But you are also entitled to your opinion, no matter how strange it may be. Semper

My perspective is that if one takes into account “Jewbashing” then goes on to imply

The only reason Jews dominate is because they have contributed in EVERY field and every walk of life.

Then I do see a slight superiority complex also and would very much like to know how do Jews contribute any more in every field making them so dominate? And in what fashion and capacity are they dominate?

Now I see materialism itself can also be something very negative. I would have to say that 99% of the battle we do today is against this form of materialism which has permeated away from the Gnostic Sciences, and into the hands of black adepts like Marx, who was certainly no atheist and understood very well that the Jewish people were integrating with Europe. They intended to isolate the Jewish people. I know many non-Jews who also have contributed to the greatest of sciences – even opposing the church. What of Rosicrucian’s and of men like Goethe, were they all Jewish? Besides, do you realise how many Jewish people supported Communism in the early 1900’s and if Communism is not anti-progress, then I’m not sure what is? Consider many of the jobs held by Jews today may also be in Fractional Reserve Banking. So does printing FIAT currency and thereby putting Labour against Management, while causing inflation really help progress?

The Jews long for Europe and not Israel, as this has isolated them and re-enforced race over faith and spirituality. In Israel today all the true spiritual Jewish people are looked upon as demons, while ISRAEL continues to press upon materialistic agendas using demagogic nonsense to justify war. All non-free nations must have a terrorist to fight in order to keep the slaves in check. The Jewish people were the first victims of the armed insurrection into Palestine by Zionists under British control – before the creation of Israel. After the MI6 and French finished training MOSSAD (tell me what MosSad really stands for) and forced the Jews, Christian and Muslims out of Palestine, certainly the Jews were not wanting this by Zionists, were they?

The Palestinians are the true Semitic people who were driven from their homeland and now ghettoized. They have been pushed into a position where they have no electricity, and cannot have clean water; they have no power for hospitals to heal the sick and must rely on generators. How can you praise a poster who blatantly overlooks basic human rights? These people have every right to be opposing Israel!

Iran has only wished Zionism to disappear – that is all. Every day on the US news we see war cries for WW3. Iran’s leaders hate Zionism – not innocent children who happen to be Jewish. Every poster who claims that Iran wants to nuke Israel seems to be unable to comprehend the fact that Iran has said they will defend themselves against sanctions and invasions but they want peace.

I have said it before and I shall say it again.

Anyone who calls him or herself the "chosen race" is a racist.
Anyone who calls him or herself the "chosen religion" is a demagogue.
Anyone who calls a land (ex. ISRAEL) "chosen by God for a particular race" is a racist-demagogue

You can argue all day over "chosen" and scripture if you wish. I will tell you thst unless there is justice, there will never be any peace.