Pyramid construction explained and the carnage that follows.

I don't post here much, but regularily browse the forums. I am a mod elsewhere and can tell you that one of the things that to me sets ATS apart from other sites - subject matter aside - is that there are many knowledgeable users and often this translates into excellent discussion and debate. There is no need to sully the experience for anyone.

There is no need to talk down to anyone.

That this user felt the need to do so speaks volumes re his need for control and his inability to gel as an adult, if not an intellect of sorts.

It was all very self-arresting, in the end.

Credit to the mods for policing the site to its advantage.

I agree with the posters who say "let the little arrogant SOB post"
It is truly within rights of moderators to put a stop to this baiting and abuse, but in this case, i think we could have had more fun with tearing his little "original" theory apart...

obviously Byrd was dismembering him, and hadn't even put the gloves on yet...

I humbly ask that you let the guy post again, on paroll of course... yank him back off the minute he proves too immature to discuss his theory...
I suspect, with the facts presented thus far, that he wont bother anyway, but at least allow him...

My request comes not from wishing for fairness, or any such moral reason...
I simply hate ignorance... it is dissapointing to hear such wrong ideas from intellegent people... if they were enlightened, then they would be joining the chorus, rather than screaching at the top of their lungs, and bugging the hell out of everyone...

I do see this as a good test of the troll control network though... good job mods... but please reconsider for this one unusual exception...

Originally posted by Byrd
Don't see anything indicating the use of intestines partly filled with water as leveling devices. Paintings and drawings and tools left in tombs indicate they used wood levels (there's a bunch of articles and books on it. The particular site I'm linking to happens to have some good illustrations on it and pictures of the tools.)
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

Many other cultures used the same method (wood tools.)
www.pubs.asce.org...

While your theory is interesting, tomb paintings don't show such a device being used. Furthermore, since levels would be important for the builder in the afterlife, their burial chambers would have had pictures of these things even if they didn't have the actual object so that people who came to pray at the temple could magically "wish" for the tools/food/whatever to show up in the afterlife for the deceased and they would magically apear there. (Standard offering formulas include "o traveler, when passing by, say "a thousand loaves of bread for the ka of Ptahotem" or something similar.)

None of the thousands of manuscripts or painted walls describe an intestine tool or show one at work. They do show the wooden level in use, though.

I was seeking the depictions of the Level, you noted above, but I am sorry Byrd, I can not find it. I saw some Plumb and Bob Tools, and a Square.

Is this what they are considering for Laying the Level of the Base of Giza? A little Square?

I imagine it could be done with this, but this makes little sense, on the "GRAND" Scale of things.

Certainly the Square would be an important tool in the Shaping of the Block's but it seems out of place when looking at a site like the Great Pyramid.

Just asking?

I was expecting something a little bigger, as well as the "Artistic Impressions" of these tools being used as you suggested. I couldn't find them in your links either.

Please assist.

Ciao

Shane

Some of us are not engineers, but we do understand concepts. Some posts
capture your attention just because the concept is presented in a factual, yet easy
to follow manner. This is where we "learn something new every day".

But rudeness is rudeness. . . . . . ."Oh, why don't we let him back in?"
"Let him say what he wants . . .blah, blah, blah".

If you settle for less, less is what you'll get. Personally, I'm waiting for his hot air
theory on levitating the blocks.

I have to admitt, this is one of the most entertaining ways I have ever heard anyone explain their theory/idea. I had an image of an egotistical David Helfgott in my mind the entire time. It seemed to me that his 'insults' were nothing more than humor lined with a few small thorns. Do we need to take ourselves so seriously all the time? CX seems to get it, and he was the first to suffer.

Does the rough humor take away from his theory? I don't think so. It makes it more palatable. If only other long-winded posts (mine included) could hold people's attention as well as Marchimedes's did.
To be honest I have seen ATS members say worse things without getting banned. I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, but if one member gets banned this quickly for saying something 'mean', then there should be no exception for any other members. If insults got everyone banned equally, half the membership would be gone in an instant. The guy deserved a warning, I'll give you that much,..... but banning him this quickly is a bit suspect. Just my humble opinion of course. Don't ban me for saying so!

Marchimedes,... in case you come back, I'm interested to see what you have to say about Byrd's replies to you thus far. Try to keep it as civil as possible without losing some of that more acceptable humor.

I'd be more interested in how he "tore Skeptic up in a PM with truth".

I'll give the guy some credit, he has made me laugh today.

CX.

Well he definately knows how to grab attention to his opinions.
4 pages of posts in 12 hours.

I didn't see anyone tearing anyone apart 'bout anything.
Just cuz mainstream archeaology says something contrary to the posters 'hypothesis',
doesn't make it false. Not until we dig up all 100% of the area of earths surface will
we have ANY idea what humans did or did not do. Not the less than the 1% we have so far. To be believe otherwise is simply unintelligent.

So apparently the current accepted theory allows for 20 years to build the great
pyramid, placing 1 block every two minutes if everything went perfectly right for
the length of those 20 years. If there were hang ups during that time, which I find to
be HIGHLY likely, means the current accepted theory is dead wrong, or needs to be
adjusted for blocks to be placed in less than 2 minutes.

Originally posted by Shane
I was seeking the depictions of the Level, you noted above, but I am sorry Byrd, I can not find it. I saw some Plumb and Bob Tools, and a Square.

The "L" shaped object was the level. They determined where "straight down' was by using a bob. They used that to mark the vertical. With a straight vertical line, then all you need to do is use that as one leg of the reference and use the other leg of the L to mark where the horizontal goes.

And this is how they cut the blocks in the quarry.

Is this what they are considering for Laying the Level of the Base of Giza? A little Square?

Never underestimate the power of small tools.

There's a number of theories about how the base was "leveled" -- however, we don't know just how precise the leveling of the ground is at the base. Once the first row was in place, the stones could have been easily sanded and worked so that the first tier was extremely level.

I was expecting something a little bigger, as well as the "Artistic Impressions" of these tools being used as you suggested. I couldn't find them in your links either.

The links had just one picture of them (and one drawing) but I've seen other examples from paintings. There's temple paintings of one of the pharoahs using them (in what we think is a ceremonial way) in a groundbreaking ceremony for the temple.

These books go into the subject (you can get them through your library) and include all sorts of photos, drawings of the paintings, text translations, and so forth
www.amazon.com...

An oldie but goodie:
www.powells.com...

And this one:
worldcatlibraries.org...

There's a lot of books on ancient engineering, but my favorite is this one by Sprague de Camp: www.amazon.com...

Separated At Birth?

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
Reason I state this is because I follow and read some of what majic states, and reading this thread with Marc, I believe they are the same people.

Ouch! You have wounded me!

I mean okay, I can definitely see the verbosity, ego issues and adroit ability to drive one's own threads off topic from the first post, but am I really that obnoxious?

Could we perhaps go for "the evil anti-Majic from episode 39"?

All kidding aside, the T&C are not optional for anyone, and I don't see any exceptions being made in this case. :shk:

What happens next is entirely up to the member to decide, as usual.

Well i'm sorry people, maybe i'm over reacting on this one, but i just took a look at Marcimede's so called "teachings" on another site which i won't even waste finger energy on by typing the link, and i can't listen to this guy any more.

Personaly i think that despite his knowledge in the subject of pyramid construction, i feel he came here to cause trouble and he seems to relish in telling his followers this on his other site.

It takes me a lot to feel sad for a person, to feel sorry for someone, but today i do. Some people in this world are going to hit the reality wall with a huge thud one day and oh my God is this guy gonna feel it! I thought it was verging on amusing at first, but not now.

You can post intelligent posts without abuse, you can use humour without insulting people.

Rant over, sorry if this is off topic, but as the topic author is too busy taking the p**s out of ATS elsewhere, i don't think it makes that much difference any more.

CX.

Thank's Byrd, but I am as cheap as Harte, and have no plans on purchasing books I have no intent on using.


So, since I am forced, I guess I must address this as I can.

Here would be a Level/Plumb Bob/Square
touregypt.net...

From another site, I acquired this insight

www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca...
HOW DOES IT WORK? The level is hooked to a string spanning two points. A plumb bob is then hung from the level

There is some "Other" examples of these "A Levels" as well

So, if Hung, between a Span, The tool would infact become a Line Level, which would make absolute sense in the "Grand" Scheme.


And as for the Post itself.

I am sorry to see this occur, and trust things will work out in the future for everyone.

I personally enjoyed the THOUGHT, put forth, but as CX has noted just now, maybe his demeanor was a little abrasive.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 10-8-2006 by Shane]

Ummm, have we scared this guy off?

Or is that posting ban still in effect? If so: cmon, he's learnt his lesson by now!

I stopped reading after the first post, because it was so BORING. And what the hell was he talking about? safes, pyramids, Who CARES! No-one can prove how they were built without being there, and why they would want to is far beyond me. It's obvious that he had to vent his opinions in a forum, because no-one in their right mind would sit and listen to this crud before walking away.

Originally posted by CX
Well i'm sorry people, maybe i'm over reacting on this one, but i just took a look at Marcimede's so called "teachings" on another site which i won't even waste finger energy on by typing the link, and i can't listen to this guy any more.

While I understand why you might be reacting the way you are, the theory presented is interesting to certain posters (including myself). Don't think I'm comparing Marchimedes to Einstein, but had Einstein had a little mean-streak, would you toss out his theories because you didn't like his character? I don't know. Sometimes there's a right time to look past some character flaws, and sometimes it's time to say 'enough is enough'. I think he deserves a second chance to prove his case in my humble opinion. If he acts up again, do what you have to.

Personaly i think that despite his knowledge in the subject of pyramid construction, i feel he came here to cause trouble and he seems to relish in telling his followers this on his other site.

Maybe that's true, and maybe it isn't. I don't know the man,.... he may have overestimated ATS's tolerance for a certain type of humor, and maybe he enjoys the reactions he gets from ATS. Unless he says one way or the other, I'm not sure we know.

You can post intelligent posts without abuse, you can use humour without insulting people.

Agreed. It is possible,... but who the heck knows what will insult some, and won't insult others? I don't think everyone feels insulted by his post. From reading the very first post I knew what to expect. I've seen posts on ATS that looked completely harmless to me, yet insulted a few others terribly. I don't know. Once again, this is just my opinion/observation.

For anyone who would like to see his theory explained without all that 'insulting' humor, he actually presents it politely right here: How to Build a Pyramid, including drawn diagrams. Some members pose pretty good questions, and aren't shy about pointing out potential flaws.

i miss the grand poobah. its nice to see off the wall personality sometimes.

diversity is what makes ats great and its what brings incredible discussions to the table here. i m sure by now he could care less to chill with the great minds of ats, but i always thought the object of this site was to educate, enlighten, and entertain. he was definitly entertaining .

its too bad he never had the chance to experience it here.
ithink it would be cool to kick back and drink some malt liquor with this guy and bs the night away. just my opinion , but i guess ive always given people more then 1 chance. peace

Are all words I just looked up in the thesarus under, "opposite of Marchimedes."

Ah yes. Let the games begin.

But how about a nice soothing rant first? Been in the penalty box and I'm out of beer.

So I have to behave in a different manner. I can do that. Can't brag, can't tease, if I were to point and laugh and waggle something you would never know. Not my style. I'll let you know. At that other place I've been talking about human nature. Just recently have taken the show on the road. Some of you get it, some don't. Many of you did exactly what I said you would. Predictable. All of you are entitled to your opinions. I could care less. The mods are the only ones I'm concerned about. Read my words carefully, if you are insulted, read again,because you got something wrong. I'll return to this shortly, but some fine people here to to be acknowledged for their gulibility to believe me when in u2u I promised large amouts of cash, hookers, and a gay circus midget. (Dude, no way will I get that other thing) for their open support on this thread. Go to the mail box and hold your breath. Any second now, really.

2manyquestions does very well for me. Nails one part of my little...thing. What's my attitude have to do with the points? Does being a smart butt make the blocks not move? kyanther, don't do that on my account. If your principles hold you to it...solid. But Byrd is correct. As I often say at that other place. This is not a democracy. Owner rules. Nuff said. And the rest of you fine red blooded massive sense-o-humor having examples of the easily fooled. Nothing, don't need to say it. But thanks and I'll be making a donation in your name to a...Alex Jones. That should please a few, but wait, does that make me seem like I'm intentionaly baiting others? Now look at the mess I'm in. Now I have to go in the closet and have me a nice cry. I could do that any where, but I just like closets. (free one, play along at home.)

Back to the...a...ohers. I believe I said it once and tha was all I'll say it. Please to notify if I didn't. First post, a batch of over a year old posts, unproof read, a little fun with CX, and now you have me all figured out. People I said nothing anywhere as harsh to you, and I did it generaly, as you did to me, specifically. No getting around that is there?

I'll now take some time to give you a real bad first impression of me.

From the first post. Myself, that screams hint. But it's far easier to hate than make someone laugh. You all don't know jack about me, but sure have made up your minds in a hurry. Seems pretty much 50/50 on the take on me. Love/hate. But guess what? Half of you are right. And either way half of you got a kick. I'll let you decide. I could care less. Can't please all the people all the time...see...now I normally would say "with the exception of one of your wives, (yes, someone definatly in mind) or boyfriend, or farm animal. But this is a kinder, gentler forum. I've been warned. But always remember...it's just a web site. Like I said, you don't know jack about me. Was that the real me? But I for sure know something about quite a few of you now, don't I? And with my talents, no, you aint seen nothing, I don't think that's bragging, what a fesh field of opportunities. But I wont. Oh you know sooner or later it will come, maybe elsewhere, and with me, you never know.

I got more. 4000? That's just the set up for me.

It Go' Better!

Originally posted by elitegamer23
its too bad he never had the chance to experience it here.
ithink it would be cool to kick back and drink some malt liquor with this guy and bs the night away. just my opinion , but i guess ive always given people more then 1 chance. peace

Um, he's not dead yet.

We usually don't comment on these sorts of things, but since the post ban is already public knowledge and a major theme of this thread, I suppose I can say something.

Marchimedes and I have discussed the T&C via U2U and he has agreed to be courteous and honor them, so I have lifted the post ban based on this assurance and look forward to more posts from this member.

I know some members feel we should cut extra slack because Marchimedes is "interesting", but down that road lies madness as other members (reasonably enough) expect similar indulgences, and we find our beloved forums looking more and more like the kinds of places we come here to get away from.

Pyramid Power

I feel some regret that we're not talking more about pyramids, but with the thread opening with insults, courtesy also necessarily became part of the topic, so I make no apologies for emphasizing the need for it in this thread.

And indeed, all the smack talk has done is derail the thread from the word "go", which is just another good reason for insisting on courtesy in the first place.

Anyway, barring further drama (lettuce prey), we're hopefully done with all that, and I hope we can all move forward on the topic of pyramid-building.




P.S. For anyone wondering what the whole post ban business is about, I recommend reading this:

If You Have Been Post Banned...

It's not a "death sentence" or anything like that. We use it as a temporary tool to give us time to talk so we don't have to permanently ban members.

P.P.S. And Marchimedes, our posts "crossed in the mail", but please, let's try to focus on pyramids going forward, since this is the Ancient & Lost Civilizations forum.

If you want to talk about yourself, the Introductions and Members forums are there for you 24/7.

[edit on 8/10/2006 by Majic]

welcome back! ats is the place for someone of your intellect so i hope u follow the rules. sometimes its better to have people listen to you then just hear you , i dont know if that makes any sense but i hope you enjoy you new chance at life. may peace be with you.

Laughable.

If the mods are the only ones you care about, pm them your little self-effacing rants and leave the rest of us out of it. Your original thread was clearly intended for everybody - as was your latest - only this time you paid homage to those that had delievered the spanking.

Frankly, I believe you need attention and a platform, but lack the fundamental ability to temper your emotions and communicate fine points in a mature fashion.

So step to it........

So some are offended by my attitude. I'll now post an testimonial from that other place, by the guy I insult more probably than any one person has been insulted by one other person in history. At least 2000 jokes on him alone and going strong.

This is real and meant...


On another subject, I ain't no xxx-kisser! Never have been, never will be. I take enough heat just the way I am. But I will go on record as saying teacher (me) is the most morally honest person in DP history. For someone who has gone through the things he's had to endure, getting the courage to get up and get through each day, is quite a feat. Let alone holding on to some sense of humor.

And quite the humor it is...

...for a Florida handyman!

We are political opposites. Any of you ever had something said like that about you, ever?

But you have me all figured out.

CX, for what it's worth, didn't come here at all like you're thinking. Came to drop my theory. Which you don't have 5% of, and a year old at that. I have a reply for every single comment. But I don't dare. Some of you said I fervently believe this IS the way it was done. Guess you missed where I made a point to say the exact opposite, even going to the extreme of naming my method. The way I would do it. (twiwdi).

Now, don't get this wrong, this is fact, truth, not bragging.

So the newbie comes in and lights the place up, gets you all a buzz, riled, as intended. My thread was on top in the home page in both categories once. Still there. Now I've posted and I bet it gets there again, so don't post. Have you seen the amount of views? Yea, I came in hot, binging it, and...how many of you has ever done what I just did on your best day? Just another day for me. Bet anything that is a record in many categories. But instead of talking about my theory, joking and smoking, I'm telling the unpleasent truth. How ya'll feeling bout now? Got banned for saying I was smart. Gonna ban me for proving it?

Giddyup.

Who wants to build pyramids?