Pyramid construction explained and the carnage that follows.

Marchimedes, I need to address your intestine theory. When I first read it I thought "He's on to something". I still think you're probably in the ballpark, but it has to be something different than intestines.
Intestines are kinda strong considering how thick they are. But let's say that a 23 foot long intestine has no leaks and can be filled with water. The water will (obviously) fill the lower regions first, as more water is added the pressure on the intestine walls would be tremendous (for intestines). At roughly 8lbs per gallon I really believe the intestine would rupture before you got it full.
Also, you would have to empty it each time you wanted to use it somewhere else. The pressure inside would keep the skin so tight that the slightest nick would make it pop like a balloon.

This whole thing got me wondering along similar lines though....
Can you tan a piece of intestine? I mean prepare it like leather and keep it somewhat flexible. It would be stronger and more durable that way, wouldn't it?

jesus, just shut up and get on with it. A diagram would be better than your incessant rambling about how great you are. Also, if I have to hear about your previous jobs, and what you call this wonderful theory, I am going t have to walk away from this garbage.

Originally posted by Marchimedes
Someone slept on the couch last night. Where's the quote button? () fo now around them.


(Originally posted by DrLeary
You're not the first person to claim to have the answer to how the pyramids were built.)

Show me one I can't refute and that can refute mine. Otherwise, thanks a lot for the news, now I have to change all my, "From the desk of the first person ever to answer how the pyamids were built" stationary.

( Your also not the first person to use 1, 2, 5 or even 10 tonn blocks. )

I said I was where?

(The simple principles of weight x arm is well know, and can be used to move quite large blocks, )

Yea, but I have ten years doing it and a bag of tricks you haven't even thought of. Can you move a block? Alone? While drunk? So befoe I figure out images and shock your life, (judging from you post you don't have much of one) how about you tell me a way to set a block into a space with a block in the rear and one on each side. Set it in a slot so o speak. And then how to level it. Well known? Haven't seen one person yet explain it concerning the pyramids.


(but they simply cannot explain how you move a 100 tonn block.)


Key word, they.
(Some of the ancient temples, walls and pyramids in south- and central america have even bigger blocks. )

Sorry, nodded off there, did I miss anything?
(So for this to be "the final answer" you must be able to demonstrate how your method can be used to move a 100 or 150 tonn block.)

First moving weight is "Well known" then it's "your method". Bro, try harder. Go home, practice on your little sister, and come back when you've mastered "nuh-uh".

I say this will take a while. I say I have this covered quarry to top. I say hang on I now need images here. This is my first day here and I haven't even gotten started. I started with laying out the thing. Should I have started with the King's chamber blocks just for you sport? I got the big stuff. How to move? Please. How to transport on bages down the river. Get up the pyramid, and how and where, moving it around in general, patience grasshopper, you,re still at the pushing little blocks in a staight line stage. Go back and read he fis pos again and hink about wha you have done.

Well I don't mind the abuse, but I do mind you passing off a collection of already widely published and debated ideas as your very own "ultimate answer to everything" solution. You are basically stealing everybody else's hard work and claiming it as your own. And on top of that you have the cheek to say you are smarter than everybody else!!!

There have been several more or less well-funded, serious, scientific attempts at recreating these scenarios with the tools and methods described, and to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever managed to do any of it. The principles work with small blocks that can be moved into position (often using modern methods, cranes, trucks etc.) onto rollers and then dragged a few feet, but they wouldn't have been able to move a 100 tonn block onto the rollers in the first place. Not to mention they would certainly break under that weight.

I agree that some of the smaller stones could have been moved in this manner, but surely there are some things we still don't understand about the manipulation of massively huge stones... The way I see it your theories are nothing new, and I recent the way you worship yourself and your ego with these claims. Lay off the cocain/coffein/sugar or whatever your on and try to actually use SOME of the words to describe your theory - as opposed to 80% of them being used to describe how incredibly smart you are and that nobody in the world can pick apart your theory. It's not yours and in most cases nobody can prove it either right or wrong. It's a THEORY....

I thought it was against T&C to draw members to another forum, especially with baiting and trolling techniques...

While marchimedes has taunted and teased with unoriginal theories, and self promoted "fact", he has not really improved the debate of what little of his theory is original... (the stone raising method) the leveling methods have all been covered, as well as the block transport methods... so lets concede that his understandings there are complete...

he has however u2ued many here, with additional baits and draws to come debate him on his own forum... (where as he likes to point out, he is "teacher")
glad to know you teacher, but here you are still a new guy, learning how the board works...
please dont jump into artificially built personas of overconfidence, because as you pointed out, we dont know you yet, and if we did, then perhaps we would get your humor more, but as it is, you come across abrasive, and that really does affect peoples acceptance of "you" which you have to get past to hear your theory...

you brought it here, so please debate it here!!!

If they could have built a perfect square stone then they could have built round stone rollers or even round stone balls and built a wooden jig similar to a chinese checker board with the divits cut out smaller than the ball to hold several of the in place with the jig and attached handels. OR a series of parallel stone trenches in the road for the stone balls to ride.

Originally posted by DrLeary
You're not the first person to claim to have the answer to how the pyramids were built.)

Dr Leary, You are a DR right? So I assume you CAN read.

If between the Comic relief, I have understood Marc correctly he has noted.

• Suggest that a Road was constructed
  
• Suggest the Specific use of TWIWDI (The Way I Would Do It)
  
• Suggest the Intestinal Level, may have been utilized
  

Three Suggestions of which two make more sense that current assumptions, and specifically in relation to the GREAT PYRAMID, apposed to the Copies that sit within the confines of the Giza Area. (which are poor copies at that)

This is all, Marc is claiming. There does not seem to be anything else, "Other than known details" that have been incorperated since they are KNOWN.

And so much for well funded serious, scientific attempts to offer solutions. They fail, yet here is common sense, being applied, which you have no regard for. I guess you are a DR.

Sorry to say, but you need to shake loose the clutter fogging your mind. Be open to Thoughts.

I agree that some of the smaller stones could have been moved in this manner, but surely there are some things we still don't understand about the manipulation of massively huge stones................. (Non intelligent ramblings deleted)

And I am sure, if you took the time to consider what is being discussed here, maybe we could understand about manipulation of Massively Huge Stones.

I certainly am interested to find out, and from his "Practical Background" I would tend to say, this gives him more creditibly than your petty dismissal.

But this is not to say, Marc is Correct.

This only notes, that along with the litany of Stupid Offerings by those who have all the answers, here is a few easy and possible methods that may have been utilized, just like the Theories you seem to embrace. MAY HAVE.

And to Marc

I liked the Creative Level aspect, but much like our esteemed Ms Byrd has noted, this does seem to have not been a "Recorded" devise that was utilized in the Cartooned Pyramids nor referenced in any text I have reviewed. The A Level, does seem to be the "Tool of Choice", and when utilized as a Line Level, this seems reasonable to me, as being the tool used for leveling the Plateau. This would also afford the "VARIANCE" of the Inch or so, over the course of the Whole Base.

Your other comments make perfect sense.

Is there any evidence of your "Road"? Not from what I can see, but here is a coulpe of questions for You, and Byrd

When was the Road from the Nile created? Before, During, or After the Creation of the Great Pyramid?

The reason I ask, is two fold.

1st: This may have been also part of the reason that the Road was placed here. To move those 70 Ton pieces to the Great Pyramid.

2nd: Prior to this, it could have also been laided out from the Quarry Areas to the Great Pyramid. Afterall, as everyone is clear to throw out there, the builders had time and people. This would not be too time consuming, in the Grand Scheme of things.

In respects to this, are we aware of any investigation into the Road, and the conditions of the Blocks used here? Could the Undersides have been abused and flipped over when it was moved to a new location? (If this took place at all)

And Marc

You have offered a common sense approach to this matter of moving and also lifting the Blocks up these various Levels. I would ask, it you could offer any thoughts in specific to the LARGER stones that where used within the Chambers.

Would this just be a case of rather than 2 men, manipluating a "Safe/Block", as you have outlined, would it then become a "Team" effort, using the same tools, but with 35 People instead for example?

And yes, let's build a Pyramid.

Ciao

Shane

This link sums it up with some prof, math and pictures.

www.prevos.net...

Originally posted by HUNTER1967
This link sums it up with some prof, math and pictures.

www.prevos.net...

That's very good and many of these methods are in use today. I however believe the bury/incline method was used in many instances also. You pile up earth around each level creating a long incline as you go and then slide the blocks up the incline into place.

Originally posted by Beer_Guy
Intestines are kinda strong considering how thick they are.

Remember, he's talking about the semitransparent covering on the intestines... not the muscle/veins/nerves/interior walls/covering intestine in total.

This whole thing got me wondering along similar lines though....
Can you tan a piece of intestine?

Indeed you can. Catgut violin strings are tanned intestine coverings, dried and twisted into thread-width strings. One violin string is made up of one sheep intestine.

It's fairly durable when shrunk and processed to make a string. Spread out into its unprocessed width, it's not terribly durable (look up the expected use (months) of a natural catgut violin string.)

They have found evidence of a ramp this link shows.

www.guardians.net...

Originally posted by Shane
When was the Road from the Nile created? Before, During, or After the Creation of the Great Pyramid?

I looked up roadbuilding in ancient Egypt. In a nutshell, here's what I found:
* most were made as the result of canal building and were simply dirt. They were rarely paved.
nefertiti.iwebland.com...

Now, from that site also comes this (which I'm just going to quote):

[3] In the Fayum an Old Kingdom road paved with flagstones facilitated the transportation of stone from the basalt quarries at Gebel Qatrani to Lake Moeris, where it was loaded onto ships. This perfectly straight road was 11.5 kilometres long and had a width of more than 2 metres.

So, they did build the occasional paved roads, but they were paved with flagstones (tiles of stone some 2-4 inches thick) and not with quarry blocks. by the way, the Fayum road is apparently the oldest known paved road.

There are references to flagstones around the Giza pyramid within the temple area complex, but I don't see any references to a flagstone road that extended to the Nile. I'll keep looking.

(note that the width of the Nile varied greatly, and has moved and shifted somewhat over several thousand years.)

2nd: Prior to this, it could have also been laided out from the Quarry Areas to the Great Pyramid. Afterall, as everyone is clear to throw out there, the builders had time and people. This would not be too time consuming, in the Grand Scheme of things.

There's no references to a paved road from the quarry. Since that would be a really significant find, I think that it didn't exist.

Originally posted by Byrd

2nd: Prior to this, it could have also been laided out from the Quarry Areas to the Great Pyramid. Afterall, as everyone is clear to throw out there, the builders had time and people. This would not be too time consuming, in the Grand Scheme of things.

There's no references to a paved road from the quarry. Since that would be a really significant find, I think that it didn't exist.

I thought Marchimedes said that after the Egyptians were done using these blocks as a paved path/road, they then used the blocks that made up this road in construction of either the pyramid, or other buildings in the city. Therefore no evidence would be left of this paved road, because all the paving stones would be used as building material. Maybe I misunderstood?

Originally posted by HUNTER1967
They have found evidence of a ramp this link shows.

www.guardians.net...

I believe I already pointed this out, though I didn't link to it.

Also, Shane,

Unless I misremember, remains of how the pyramids were leveled have been found at the base of the Great Pyramid. They used interconnected trenches dug into the plateau which, when filled with water, provided a level surface from which to measure. This was done prior to the first stone being laid, it is assumed anyway.

Why didn't you point this out Byrd?

Harte

Pyramids were built all over the Planet, If the same construction techniques were used worldwide, then it is safe to assume the knowledge to build them was also worldwide. Common sense should tell us that a culture of people most certanly was around when all this was going on, why just focus on Egypt? Can you use the same techniques to build a pyramid on the top of a mountain? What about in a jungle?How were such titanic blocks of stone brought to the top of the mountain from the quarries many miles away? How were they cut and fitted? How were they raised and put in place? Now one knows, no one can even guess. There are archaeologists, scientists, who would have us believe that the dense, hard andesite rock was cut, surfaced and faced by means of stone or bronze tools. Such an explanation is so utterly preposterous that it is not even worthy of serious consideration. No one ever has found anywhere any stone tool or implement that would cut or chip the andesite, and no bronze ever made will make any impression upon it."

A. Hyatt & Ruth Verrill ----America's Ancient Civilizations Your theory of how to build a pyramid might hold water in some areas of the planet, but, not all over the planet.

Ok lets debunk marc
look at the links you talk about a massive brain, marc do think the giants used their massive brain? They could have picked up the stones walked accross the river and put them anywhere they wanted.
Evidence of bones and the good book says it true.
This should be a thread of its own.
I bet they used their massive brain to get it level and square.

www.gizapyramid.com...

groups.msn.com...

One more quick note, completly unproven as of yet, but, when the pyramids on (other) planets are discovered, and they will be, what will you say then? Of course, we cant discuss that now because the proof is not there. (yet). Wrap your massive brain around that one in a civil manner if you can, probably not though.

Very good point about the giants, and their is proof they existed. I know, I know, where are the links? where is your proof? What has this to do with my theory? Marc, you can probably put stones together like you said, but there is much more to pyramid building than that. Tell us how the andesite was cut and polished, not from the egypt pyramids mind you, but the other ones. Look at the pyramids from the entire planet. Were they ALL built as you say in your theory? All of them? Cant wait for my spanking on this one, please try to be kind.

Originally posted by Buffalo Voice
One more quick note, completly unproven as of yet, but, when the pyramids on (other) planets are discovered, and they will be, what will you say then? Of course, we cant discuss that now because the proof is not there. (yet). Wrap your massive brain around that one in a civil manner if you can, probably not though.

And maybe 4000 years from now people will try to figure out how we could have been smart enough to develop computers, robots, etc. etc., claiming that it would have been impossible without alien intervention, because there's no way we were smart enough. Let's face it. The human race is not full of idiots banging rocks and sticks together.

It is very likely that 4000 years leaves us with little evidence of human capability to build things like the Pyramids, because as many as 4000 years have passed! That's a lot of years for things to disappear, get re-used, get shipped/transported to other parts of the world, to be lost, depreciated or defaced by newer/rival cultures, etc. etc. Assuming that everything the Egyptians ever used 4000 years ago will still be there today is a bit on the naive side of things.
As hard as it is for some to believe, human beings are capable of amazing, and sometimes unbelievable things. That's what our brains are for. God only knows how advanced some civilizations were 4000, or even 10,000 years ago. Maybe we're neanderthals compared to them. So,.... although the "Alien" explanation is interesting (and maybe these "Aliens" are just human beings who lived on this planet 10,000 years ago and were advanced enough to move to other planets), let's cut the Egyptians some slack. As Marchimedes and some Archeologists have tried to explain or demonstrate, it IS humanly (if that's a word) possible.

EDIT: I just remembered a program I saw on TV a while ago. They talked about ancient Japanese swords, and the sharpening tools these Japanese used. The 'experts' said that the Japanese back then had better, more accurate sharpening tools than we (the advanced civilization that we are) have today. If I find any links on this, I'll post them. Just something to think about.

[edit on 11-8-2006 by 2manyquestions]

the four sided triangle is one of the most base of mathmatical understandings...

Pyramid building could have happened any of many ways, but the essential parts are

was there a "block" road, or a flagstone one? (or maybe neither)?
Marcs contention is that it was block, but we have evidence of flagstone used in others (from byrds link)

marcs method of leveling is only unique in the "intestional" method, and there were more reliable, and more dependable methods available (wax lined wood tube for one) which is MY original theory... so dont steal it marc...
wax was very common back then, and if wood was used, they would have surely sealed the joints with something... why not wax?

as far as the leveling method...It seems that ramps (around the circumference) would be the most feasable, but from a common sense standpoint, it seems that a lot of reinforcement would have been neccessary to support the weight of a stone, along the edges of the ramp...
I just recently had to load a forklift onto a flatbed, and the emmense effort that was required just to get it up the short ramp we had, was amazing... and i was pushing it with another forklift...
and it had wheels...

So I would enjoy trying to understand this raising method that marc speculates on more, but have yet to see a "method to the madness" that would insure strong enough materials, to support the weight, while not crushing them from use...
(metal Lincoln logs might work, but would still misshape with use...)
but if they were merely shim thickness, then more could be used for the perfection required...

I am still puzzled though... I am going back to my original theory...

they built a big dam, taught a bunch of egyptians to swim, and scuba dive... flooded the valley, and built a huge barge to lift and float the blocks into place (remember that underwater, everything is easier to move)
the divers could perfectly place the blocks with precision, since they were already bouyant by the barge lines, and once on target drop them...
once the pyramids were assembled under this temporary man made sea, they then knocked down the damn wall... and whala... the great pyramids...

ancient egyptian secret no?

I really wanted to get marc to ramble on about his massive brain again.
since i have shown at least 1% prof he is wrong like he said could'nt be done.
But I am even more happy about the dam theory, I'm with you on the big dam
I love it and the intestines of animals were used as snorkels