Buddhism, FreeMasonry and Gnosis

Originally posted by dontreally
Are you serious? Just look over the names of the different grades and its evidently clear that masonry deifies rank and level. This is probably one of the allures of the 'transformation' from what a mason would call a 'brute' to a god incarnate; christ in the flesh.

I have never heard anyone refer to Masonry as a transformative system that will allow you to become Chirst in the flesh. Niether did anyone state that they felt a sort of apotheosis upon beceoming a Master Mason.

Ive read Pikes morals and dogma and its clear Masonry is based primarely on pagan/hellenistic philosophy.

You may have read Morals and Dogma but you certainly did not understand the same. It was not written for Masons but for members of the Scottish Rite in a certain portion of the United States. It had, and still has, little to no relevance to Masons who are not a part of the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction.

Their welcoming other religions just means all man made religions share this 'perenial philosophy' as huxley put it.

No, it means that we feel anyone who believes in God believes in the same God, Creator of All.

Originally posted by dontreally
The Torah is the source of all wisdom.

I would argue that there is very little wisdom in the Torah, especially if taken literally.

Of course, Masons are taught that the Torah is gnostic and the biblical israelites were gnostics;

Hogwash. The ancient Israelites were, for the most part, unlearned and tribal peoples. The majority of them did not possess the cultivation and sophistication required to appreciate the metaphysics of Gnosticism.


[edit on 6-7-2010 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by dontreally


Well i do know this is whats taught.

Apparently, you don't have a clue.

[The Torah is above the core of all mystical wisdom.

No, the Torah is not.

Other traditions are speculative; the Torah is directly given from the creator of the universe to Man;

No, it wasn't. Of course, according to Jewish mythology it was, but then again, every religion has its own mythology about God giving special writings to their patriarchs.

Im not against any other tradition. I think they all add something unique and special to the divine diversity Gd created. However, Torah is central to mankind.

The Torah is an interesting piece of ancient literature, but is no more central to mankind than any other collection of ancient myths and traditions.

I know Samuel Aen Weor; satanist, mason, etc, a gnostic, teaches a very untrue and mendacious version of Torah.

Weor was neither a satanist nor a Mason, nor was he a traditional Gnostic. Personally, I couldn't care less about what he thought of the Torah.

The G-d of Israel, the true G-d, who masons i suppose call the Grand architect of the universe, wants all mankind to follow these restrictions in human conduct. There needs to be walls; bondaries, and i really do hope this is a belief that masons follow.

I do not confuse the true God with the "god" of the Torah. At best, the concept of God given in the Torah is the character of a brute.




[edit on 6-7-2010 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by dontreally
Are you serious? Just look over the names of the different grades and its evidently clear that masonry deifies rank and level. This is probably one of the allures of the 'transformation' from what a mason would call a 'brute' to a god incarnate; christ in the flesh.

I have never heard anyone refer to Masonry as a transformative system that will allow you to become Chirst in the flesh. Niether did anyone state that they felt a sort of apotheosis upon beceoming a Master Mason.

Ive read Pikes morals and dogma and its clear Masonry is based primarely on pagan/hellenistic philosophy.

You may have read Morals and Dogma but you certainly did not understand the same. It was not written for Masons but for members of the Scottish Rite in a certain portion of the United States. It had, and still has, little to no relevance to Masons who are not a part of the Scottish Rite in the Southern Jurisdiction.

Their welcoming other religions just means all man made religions share this 'perenial philosophy' as huxley put it.

No, it means that we feel anyone who believes in God believes in the same God, Creator of All.

That an over simplification.

My conception of G-d could be much different than yours. Compare what i said earlier about the two archetypal modes, Elohim vs YHVH. This is the gnostic idea of Gd; a moraly indifferent G-d, vs YHVH which is a personal Gd; the G-d of Jews and Christians. Of course, that doesnt mean a hindu/buddhist or muslim cant pray to G-d as reflected by the name YHVH.

On the whole, these 'pagan' religions are antinomian and therefore they 'experience' G-d in ways much different than what would be acceptable to a Jew or Christian or to the non libertine membrs of society.

One thing i find particularly gnostic about freemasonry is he figure Hram Abiff. Did you know Chiram in Hebrew is from the root Cherem? meaning blasphemer or heretic? Meaning Chiram Abiff can be translated as "grand blasphemer"... Im not saying thats what masons intend but that is simple Hebrew grammar.

Make of that what you will

Also, am i wrong in understanding the masonic logo as : Compass = spiritual, Square = Physical, whereas gnosis, the G, hovering inbetween? Meaning true self knowledge is found between the spiritual and physical. Meaning the physical has particular importance in ones spiritual development? LIke for instance, exercising what could be called the animal soul. Is this not what the wound at Christs side; his liver, represents? The release of the vital energy of th animal in each of us?

Anyways. This is just my own analysis of these things.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by dontreally
The Torah is the source of all wisdom.

I would argue that there is very little wisdom in the Torah, especially if taken literally.

Of course, Masons are taught that the Torah is gnostic and the biblical israelites were gnostics;

Hogwash. The ancient Israelites were, for the most part, unlearned and tribal peoples. The majority of them did not possess the cultivation and sophistication required to appreciate the metaphysics of Gnosticism.


[edit on 6-7-2010 by Masonic Light]

Have you ever studied kabbalah? Sefer Yetzirah or the Hebrew language?

Safat echat in Hebrew (one langage) is the same value as Lashon HaKodesh (the holy tongue - epithet for hebrew). The archetypal language G-d used to create the universe.

Judaisms remarkably deep. Even CG Jung says in his aion lectures that christian mystics have done their best to coverup Jewish mysticism. Why he said that could have to do with how profound th Torah is and how profound the Hebrew language is.

Also, Lurianic Kabbalah is far more sophisticated than noplatonism/gnosticism and it extends its speculations far further than they were ever able to go. And of course, Isaac Luria was propetically taught these secrets by Elijah the prophet. Gnostics relied on their own speculation or arhc angelic power assigned to them.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by dontreally


Well i do know this is whats taught.

Apparently, you don't have a clue.

[The Torah is above the core of all mystical wisdom.

No, the Torah is not.

Other traditions are speculative; the Torah is directly given from the creator of the universe to Man;

No, it wasn't. Of course, according to Jewish mythology it was, but then again, every religion has its own mythology about God giving special writings to their patriarchs.

Im not against any other tradition. I think they all add something unique and special to the divine diversity Gd created. However, Torah is central to mankind.

The Torah is an interesting piece of ancient literature, but is no more central to mankind than any other collection of ancient myths and traditions.

I know Samuel Aen Weor; satanist, mason, etc, a gnostic, teaches a very untrue and mendacious version of Torah.

Weor was neither a satanist nor a Mason, nor was he a traditional Gnostic. Personally, I couldn't care less about what he thought of the Torah.

The G-d of Israel, the true G-d, who masons i suppose call the Grand architect of the universe, wants all mankind to follow these restrictions in human conduct. There needs to be walls; bondaries, and i really do hope this is a belief that masons follow.

I do not confuse the true God with the "god" of the Torah. At best, the concept of God given in the Torah is the character of a brute.




[edit on 6-7-2010 by Masonic Light]

So says CG Jung, Alice Bailey etc.

Explin to me how YHVH was a brute? Over and over again he tells people to repent. If you sn against him, he always allows you to return. Hes patient and merciful but also wrathful. He appears in two modes. Love and wrath. If you serve him and follow his laws, man is assured peace and greater wisdom. If however they follow their own stubborn designs initated by the Yetzer HaRa, than they'll be led astray and transferred to the domain of Elohim/Hateve - nature. The G-d of he Torah is a profundly Just Gd.

Oh and the pagan cultures of those days engaged in abhorrent spiritual practices. I wrote this earlier but apparently you didnt read it.

The pagan nations engaed in sex rites, drinking blood, eating raw flesh (all dionysian type rites), human sacrifice (to Mammon lets say, for the sake of being reincarnated as a rich man etc). All these are morally evil and perverted actions.

The rabbinic sages recieved a tradition about the 7 laws of Noach which all mankind must follow for there to be peace (symbolizd by the 7 colors of the rainbow) in the world; do not kill, steal, blaspheme G-d, commit idolatry, eat the raw flesh of an animal, do not be sexually immoral and establish a just legal system. Each of these parraleling the 7 lower sefirot and each law preserves the uniterrupted divine flow of that attribute into this world.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by dontreally]

Originally posted by dontreally
That an over simplification.

My conception of G-d could be much different than yours.

I am not concerned about what you think God may or may not be, I only wanted to correct you as to what Masonry's prerequisite was in relation to belief in a Creator.

Also, am i wrong in understanding the masonic logo as : Compass = spiritual, Square = Physical, whereas gnosis, the G, hovering inbetween? Meaning true self knowledge is found between the spiritual and physical.

No, the broader message of the Square is to 'square ones actions' or act towards others using the Golden Rule. The Compasses teach us to keep our passions within due bounds and not act with intemperance.

The 'G' is typically found in the United States only so it would have no meaning to a Mason from other parts of the world. Here it it meant to primarily signify Geometry and also alludes to God, though that is not its primary meaning.

There is very little worth reading about Buddhism in English written in the West before the late 20th century. During the 19th century, there were so few people in the West who understood Asian languages that all they got from it were bits and peices. Then you have all these pseudo-historian-esotericists like Madame Blavatsky running around and grabbing little pinches and fragments of whatever seemed "exotic" (egypt....tibet...mesopotamia...who cares, just throw it in the pot and let it simmer...).

The situation has really only marginally improved since then. The vast majority of Buddhist primary sources (sutras, commentaries, other philosophical writings, etc.) remain untranslated or mangled badly by people who didn't understand Asian languages as well as they thought they did. Western understanding of Buddhism is also colored by a highly selective reading...in other words, people focus on what they want to focus on and ignore the rest. For a long time people were excited about "warrior Zen" or "crazy wisdom of Tibet" because it seemed exotic and different from Christianity. They didn't realize what a tiny piece of the picture these represented, and they were too bored, frankly, to plough through the more mundane details that would give a bigger picture.

There has been some excellent scholarship, finally, in Western languages over the last 20-30 years, but there is still a long way to go and lots of ill-founded ideas floating around out there.

As a thought experiment, imagine you were an alien trying to get an idea about "Christianity." Your only resources are as follows:
-A few pictures of Cathedrals and stained-glass windows
-A few poorly-translated, error-ridden samples of parts (not the wholes) of the following books, say:
-Three or four jumbled books of the bible.
-The monsastic rule of the Knights Templar
-A sermon from the 1600s New England about burning witches
-A gnostic text or two
-Jim Jones' last words to his disciples before they all drink the Cool-Aide, and a transcript of Charles Manson telling his followers he is both God and Satan simultaneously.


That's going to give you a very peculiar and not particularly accurate picture of Christianity. Much the same dynamic is at work in terms of Buddhist scholarship in the west...especially before 1970 or so.



[edit on 7/7/10 by silent thunder]

Originally posted by dontreally


Have you ever studied kabbalah? Sefer Yetzirah or the Hebrew language?

Yes.

The archetypal language G-d used to create the universe.

Yes, in Kabalistic mythology. In the Enochian system, God used the Enochian language to create the universe. All these stories are make believe, but have subjective importance to the individual using the system.

Also, Lurianic Kabbalah is far more sophisticated than noplatonism/gnosticism and it extends its speculations far further than they were ever able to go. And of course, Isaac Luria was propetically taught these secrets by Elijah the prophet. Gnostics relied on their own speculation or arhc angelic power assigned to them.

The Kabalah itself is the result of Hellenistic concepts being adopted by the Alexandrian Jews. It is a Neoplatonic mysticism.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by dontreally
That an over simplification.

My conception of G-d could be much different than yours.

I am not concerned about what you think God may or may not be, I only wanted to correct you as to what Masonry's prerequisite was in relation to belief in a Creator.

Also, am i wrong in understanding the masonic logo as : Compass = spiritual, Square = Physical, whereas gnosis, the G, hovering inbetween? Meaning true self knowledge is found between the spiritual and physical.

No, the broader message of the Square is to 'square ones actions' or act towards others using the Golden Rule. The Compasses teach us to keep our passions within due bounds and not act with intemperance.

The 'G' is typically found in the United States only so it would have no meaning to a Mason from other parts of the world. Here it it meant to primarily signify Geometry and also alludes to God, though that is not its primary meaning.

So, the trifold nature of the masonic G - God, Gnosis, and Geometry, doesnt reveal something about the masonic/gnostic conception of G-d?

Geometry is thought to reveal something about G-d whch is achieved through gnosis. In 3 different spheres, G-d as the unknowable, Gnosis in the intellectual world, and geometry in the physical. This is the whole justification of neoplatonism and gnosicism/hermeticism. Even Dionysous is transmutation of Nous Dios "mind of god". Meaning according ot the Greeks, Dionysous - the fool, and ignoramus, is closest to god.

Problem with this idea is that its based in an arbitrary philosophy.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by dontreally


Have you ever studied kabbalah? Sefer Yetzirah or the Hebrew language?

Yes.

The archetypal language G-d used to create the universe.

Yes, in Kabalistic mythology. In the Enochian system, God used the Enochian language to create the universe. All these stories are make believe, but have subjective importance to the individual using the system.

Also, Lurianic Kabbalah is far more sophisticated than noplatonism/gnosticism and it extends its speculations far further than they were ever able to go. And of course, Isaac Luria was propetically taught these secrets by Elijah the prophet. Gnostics relied on their own speculation or arhc angelic power assigned to them.

The Kabalah itself is the result of Hellenistic concepts being adopted by the Alexandrian Jews. It is a Neoplatonic mysticism.

Is it arbitrary that there are 26 fundamental constants according to modern science? Which physicists are now seeking to unify through string theory. 26 is the gematria of the ineffible name; even the Enlgish word G-d(which incidently in Hebrew means 'luck' giving an idea of what the English hellenists think about G-d) has the gematria of 26.

Is it arbitrary that there are 86 naturally occuring metals - corresponding to the name Elohim (a name of contraction - metal is the most contracted lifeform)

Is it arbitrary that the fine structure constant of an atom - which appears as two spectral lines, one opposite the other. And the number which differentiates these two lines is 137, the same as the Hebrew word Kabbalah? Kabbalah means 'to recieve', and the entire point of kabbalah is to explain how the spiritual is 'reflected' in the spiritual; just as the one spectral line mirrors the other. 137 is the mystery in between. All this was alluded to in a recent book by physicist arthur i miller "the strange friendship of wolfgang paulie and carl jung"

These physical manifestations of number reflect the Hebrew archetype/concept which provides its existence. Thus, the Essential makeup of reality is 26 fundamental laws; the essential name of G-d os YHVH (26). Elohim represents contraction, and there are 86 variities of metal (the most contracted form of life). And the fine structure contstant of an atom - called by physicists the "DNA" of an atom, literally contains the concept of above and below; spiritual and physical. Separated by a number which means kabbalah. Would you dare call this coincidence?

Hebrew is noooo way just like any other language.

[edit on 7-7-2010 by dontreally]

[edit on 7-7-2010 by dontreally]

double post

[edit on 8-7-2010 by IandEye]

hello there. i have a BA in Buddhism and i'd like to say that the basis of Buddhism is "no gods"....yes they exist but only as illusions- temporary entities living off their good karma, which will eventually run out.

Albert Pike was a moron and is not any kind of authority on Buddhism- only racism and hatred. kind of like this thread................

yes there are some folk-Buddhist who believe in gods and pray to them for healing, prosperity, whatever. in fact, tantra isn't just cannibalism, blood-drinking, sh*t-eating, and sex.....it's really about a meditative process wherein the self is absorbed into emptiness and is 'reborn' as a deity, then that is absorbed and the self returns, stronger and healthier and more like the deity of choice.

it is very interesting how one would equate Masons with Buddhism. from my perspective, Masons are like the adept who gets too far into emptiness or too far into form and thinks only the one or other is real and, in a black/white perspective, true humanity is lost.

also - Buddhism is the "middle way" between form and emptiness- a personal philosophy. i don't see how it can be turned into the cult of the Widow's Son....


[edit on 8-7-2010 by IandEye]

[edit on 8-7-2010 by IandEye]

[edit on 8-7-2010 by IandEye]

[edit on 8-7-2010 by IandEye]

Originally posted by dontreally


Is it arbitrary that there are 26 fundamental constants according to modern science? Which physicists are now seeking to unify through string theory. 26 is the gematria of the ineffible name; even the Enlgish word G-d(which incidently in Hebrew means 'luck' giving an idea of what the English hellenists think about G-d) has the gematria of 26.

I have high respect for certain elements in the Kabalah, the best and most importance of which were preserved in the Hermetic tradition. However, if you are implying that the medieval Jewish scholars, or the authors of the Talmud, had intricate knowledge of modern scientific theory, I would have to say that the assumption is rather silly. Ask a physicist about the importance of the Torah and Talmud in their work. Even the great Jewish physicist Einstein described the Torah as "childish".

Originally posted by dontreally
So, the trifold nature of the masonic G - God, Gnosis, and Geometry, doesnt reveal something about the masonic/gnostic conception of G-d?

Once again, the 'Masonic G' is only relevant in the United States. Other language's words for God to do not start with 'G'. Also, there is no mention of gnosis when the letter 'G' is explained to the candidate.




[edit on 11-7-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by IandEye



Albert Pike was a moron and is not any kind of authority on Buddhism- only racism and hatred. kind of like this thread................

Here is Pike's magnum opus "Morals and Dogma". I challenge you to find one sentence in it that condones "racism" or "hatred".

Futhermore, how exactly does one acquire a B.A. in Buddhism?

[edit on 12-7-2010 by Masonic Light]

reply to post by IandEye


Please don't take this the wrong way, but stop being so hypocritical. Think about it, you are trying to inform people who don't really know about Buddhism but are talking about it with misinformation, all the while speaking ill of masonry when you have no knowledge of what it really is. If you don't know, that's fine, but to spread further misinformation is disingenuous at best.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by IandEye



Albert Pike was a moron and is not any kind of authority on Buddhism- only racism and hatred. kind of like this thread................

Here is Pike's magnum opus "Morals and Dogma". I challenge you to find one sentence in it that condones "racism" or "hatred".

Futhermore, how exactly does one acquire a B.A. in Buddhism?

[edit on 12-7-2010 by Masonic Light]

well sir- Pike should be judged by his actions and not by the writings in one pamphlet. he did form the KKK you know....

how do you get a dgree? you go to college. i went to Northern Arizona University and studied under the pupil of the Dalai Lama's junior tutor.


this thread seems to be more about Judaism than anything else-
you can't teach a fish about dry land without killing it.............

[edit on 12-7-2010 by IandEye]