Why Islam is not a religion of peace.

OK, I'm gonna draw an analogy here, so bear with me. For the sake of argument, I will concede that the teachings of the Koran are teachings of peace and harmony with others. Follow me into the time machine back to a garden in Jerusalem 2000 years ago...

A Jewish man kneels praying, tears rolling down his face. He is obviously suffering greatly, when armed men with torches burst into the garden. They demand that this man (named Jesus) come with them to be tried. One of Jesus' followers, a man by the name of Peter, draws his sword and cuts off the ear of one of the men. Jesus rebukes Peter for his violence, and heals the slave's ear. He then follows the armed me to torture and death.

Sound familiar? Let's go into our little "alternate history" machine and see what could have happened.

Peter strikes off the slave's ear, but this is just a diversion. Jesus and the other apostles draw their swords and slaughter the men who came to arrest them. They then flee into the mountains and gather followers. From there, they make war on all of Israel, and much of the Roman Empire, conquering and forcibly converting millions of people to their ways.

Yes, you still have the beatitudes. You have "blessed are the peacemakers". But what do those words really mean anymore? People will say "yes, we want to forgive, to have peace, but Jesus was a warrior!"

Sadly, this is what has happened with Islam. Muhammed was a warrior. He was a man of violence.

Let us assume that 90% of Muslims ignore this fact and live in peace. That still means that 10% of Muslims are waging Jihad against the West. That still means that there are 100 million people in this world, following the banner of Islam, who are out to destroy us and our way of life.

Muhammed was not the Son of God, he was a man, and as such, was molded by life's experiences. As I understand it as I read a Muslim explain, the writings of the Koran, when put in chronological order of writing, shows this. The first chronological part was of peaceful writings, the second half of violence. Muhammed's call for death and violence and subjugation of the Jew and infidel was later in his life, these were his later feelings.

Also, he had a 6 years old wife. He didn't " touch " her until she was 9 years old !!!

A "peacemaker" and a man who was "loving" to much the childrens. See what I mean ?

[Edited on 1-11-2002 by ultra_phoenix]

Mmmmm... I think that this number is maybe a bit high!

To say that 100 million Muslims are potential terrorists is inflamitory at best, down right pig-headed ignorant at worst.

Just because you have met 3 muslims between you doesn't mean that you may pass judgement on the rest.

The media would have you believe this sh!t you speak, but your comments generalise far too much and don't help anyone.

well said.

Islam and Christianity both could claim to be religions of peace, and maybe they both are, but, like all theologys they both have people who take the doctrine too far and come out the otherside not as Muslims or christians but as murderers and killers.

Just because the Rev.Jimmy Jones slaughtered a load of his followers doesn't mean that all christians are inherant mass murderers.

Just because some Muslims twisted the teachings of their faith to the point that they became terrorists doesn't meen that your friendly neighborhood Muslim is going to grab a gun and ram it down your throat when the call to Jihad comes.

well said lupe, and if i may pick up on up's comment:

ultra_phoenix:

"Also, he had a 6 years old wife. He didn't " touch " her until she was 9 years old !!!

A "peacemaker" and a man who was "loving" to much the childrens. See what I mean ? "

see, now this is typical of you, UP; absolutely no tolerance for other cultures. who is to say that he wasn't a good husband? who is to say that she wasn't a perfectly happy wife? you take your views on marriage and relationships and condemn him because he does not conform to them.

- qo.

Well, I have to admit it. I'm almsot agree with FD & Lupe_101.

But you quiet1, you' re nut !

Did you read what you wrote ? I'm not sure.

So, for you, having a 6 years old WIFE and consummate the wedding when she was 9 years old, it's a " normal " thing ?

Pick up a dictionary, a check these 2 words :

1) Blinded ( 4 u )

2) Pedophile ( For " The prophet " )

And after, read the Quran ! You need it to understand what's going on in a muslim mind.

Until you don't read it, you cannot understand a muslim.

"To say that 100 million Muslims are potential terrorists is inflamitory at best, down right pig-headed ignorant at worst."

Well, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to think that 10% of Muslims will follow the example of Muhammed, as he acted.

"Just because you have met 3 muslims between you doesn't mean that you may pass judgement on the rest. "

I said "10%" I'm not saying this is a statistic. Even suppose it was set in stone, passing judgement on 10% is hardly passing judgement "on the rest".

And who are you to say how many Muslims I've talked with?

"The media would have you believe this sh!t you speak, but your comments generalise far too much and don't help anyone."

Well, I actually find that the media simply ignores the violence of Islam altogether. The idea that the media would have me believe this is lunacy!

On reading the Koran, excellent point U_P!

In early October last year, I went out and bought a Koran. I can't claim to have read the whole thing all the way through, but I have certainly read enough to know what Islam is about, and to know that the Koran can be interpereted in a very violent way.

[Edited on 11-1-2002 by ~iluv2act~]

They make no bones about the fact that they have a Koran for the western folk and then they have their Koran, so I wouldn't bank too much on the westernized version as being the driving factor.

To say that the media is demonizing the Islamic faith is to be seriously ignorant of the truth, which is that the media is doing everything to play off all Islamic violence on something else. The Muhammad sniper who hasn't gone by Williams for years, who rejoiced the day the towers were toppled by Islamic folk acting according to their religious belief, has been stereotyped as a "former Army Sergeant" by the media and constantly referred to as "Williams" by CNN.

Remember the shooter that hit in L.A. a few months ago? You know, the Christian that listened to too many Falwell sermons and went into the airport and gunned down Jews in the....wait a minute, that guy was Muslim, and there were plenty of links between him and Islamic "extremism" yet you never heard it from the alphabet network!

No, people, they as a religion declared war on the West and the U.S. in specific, and the "moderates", instead of denouncing the violence and putting a stop to it, finance it. You ignore that the worst place to be is the neighbor of an Islamic nation or a non-Muslim in an Islamic nation while you make ignorant associations with Jim Jones and Christianity and say that they media makes the Muslim out to be the bad guy. The media does not, and neither do we here, the Muslim does that. Nobody made Nazism out to be the bad guy, they did that on their own and, as history proved, ignoring them and appeasing them did not make the problem go away.

I think one of the problems with the Koran and the Bible is not the books themselves,it is how they are read.From what I have read people like Bin Laden take quotes out of the Koran,they do not tell people what the whole verse really say's.The same thing happens with the Bible.When they start taking out specific quotes and then constantly repeat them to there followers,that is all the people hear.Its just another form of brain washing.

I think Nyeff hit it on the head there.All scripture is open to continual interpretation.Religion provides direction for a better life and each generation interprets their holy scripture in the context of their day.
TC was right to point out that the Korans 1st part is peaceful and the latter part not so.The Bible on the other hand has an agressive 1st part and a more peaceful 2nd.
Catholics are fundementalist Christians yet the pope(these days)doesn't call for holy war yet 500 years ago they were crusading,raping ,and pillaging their way across the middle east.The interpretation of the Bible allowed for it.
Islam is not evil.It's those that wish to preach their agressive interpretations on Muslims unable to hope for a better future and unable to think outside a religious context.

I don't think I could condone Paedophilia even in an historic or cultural context the best anyone could say is that it wasn't criminal just ignorant.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
this would be the peaceful second part, presumably?
Don't blame the books: blame the people.

Originally posted by Estragon

Don't blame the books: blame the people.

In this case, we don't have to blame the peoples. These peoples are doing what's written in the Koran, and nothing more.

So, it's not someone who have to be blame( except the " prophet and his followers for their stupidty " ), but something. And this thing is the book.

If you want to read the Koran, it's easy. Just surf to google and type " Koran ". You'll have it. Read it, like I did it, and you'll understand all what I mean ( and other peoples too ) about this book.

It's amazing. Some of you speak about it, but almost anybody didn't read it.

I have read it Ultra_Phoenix: quite a few times although one likes to leave a decent time-interval between readings, it can be pretty turgid stuff.
Actually, I tend to get chunks of it rammed down my earholes most Fridays (holy day)
It's worth rememebring that it's only "half" of the Faith -the "Hadith" sayings of Muhammad (puh) -as they write out here - are the other half and that is more open to very selective reading.
There's quite a lot of generosity and compassion in the Koran (largely to other Muslims, it must be said); but it's unique among the Abrahamic holy books in taht it's pretty much writen in "real time" -so it tends to wander off according to who Muhammad was arguing with at the time.
I'll still say that it's the people: most religious "key" texts can be used to justify bloodthirsty babraism in carying degrees: Islam worst, then Judaism then (very much NT-based, anyway) Christianity. It varies -it would hard to imagine Quakers declaring a jihad, for instance: but it's there.
I tend still to the view that what's unsettling to us about Islam is its youth - it's 600 years behind Christianity and largely confined to undeveloped nations (forget the veneer of development supplied to some by oil-money). This is why I tend to compare it to 15th Century Christianity -a pretty bloodthirsty time.

Remember, in reference to Christianity, the understanding of the scriptures for oneself was not allowed, the priests at the time held the knowledge, and like some management people where I work, wanted to maintain it for themselves so as to use it against the people. Tday anyone is able to read it for themselves. Obviously not everyone does or else evil people like Jim Jones wouldn't be able to lead stupid people to the spiked KoolAide.

Quite so, Thomas, and to return to my earlier suggestion concerning the "youth" of Islam: so many Muslims can scarcely read anyything, let alone early Classical Arabic. But in the 15th Century, most Christians had scraps of incomprehensible -and often bad Latin -from their priests.
It is at a stage where people cannot judge -this is why, in the Christian tradition, vernacular translations of the Bible loom so large in the early history of Protestantism. It was felt that Christians must have immediate access to the "raw material" as it were.
On older boards, I posted a good deal on this: Islam is not quite sure whether any vernacular translation is even permissible, at present -as the Catholic Church was 600 years ago.
A a result -many Muslims are easily manipulable.
But, this is wicked politics: not the faith per se.

A little off the beaten path, here, but if I'm not mistaken, wasn't education a mandatory deal for the people of Iraq 15 or 20 years ago? Seems it was the showpiece for a couple of cultural things such as education.
My, how times change.
Can't say much against then in reference to that, though. America, regardless of education always being a political objuect both sides try to claim, is slipping terribly in that department. Seems apathy sets in to civilizations at their peak.

Ibought my copy of the Koran over two years ago U-P well before 9/11 but I've only read it once.Like all religious texts it has contradictions.I think the only thing I liked was the beautiful names that some of the Surahs had like "The wind-curved sandhills"It was also interesting for the references to Jesus.I have read the rest but I'd be lying if I said I was rivetted.

I think the way Estragon and TC moving is the right direction to understand.Of course the invention of the printing machine was primary to the developement of protestantism is there a link with the issues of free press in Islamic countries?

I heard about Allah being a hateful and angry god... I myself never read the Koran, but could somebody tell me how he appears to be in it?

ZerOsmus ,Islam recognises all the old testement prophets and so Allah is as capricious as the old testement God.The divinety of Jesus is denied(echoes of this you will find in Templar and Freemasonry alledgedly coming from the time of the crusades and the sacking and occupation of Jerusalem)however Jesus is recognised as a prophet.Muhamed is not devine but the last prophet.Incidently Muhamed was given a safe place to stay(I think his life was saved) by early Christians in the Holy land and decreed that christians should not be harmed.Islam was mean't to be an update of christianity in the same way christianity was supposed to be an update of Judaism.Allah is no better or any worse than the God you have of in your Bible.