Innocent Lebanese? Sorry, not in this universe

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by Malichai
Where do you suppose they should go?

To their homes, after laying down their weapons.

Lay down their weapons as the enemy is invading?

Try telling that to Americans.

Give up your arms as the enemy crashes the gate.

Notice I didnt say they were wrong, or that they have to lay down their weapons, just that I "suppose they should". I am sure, however, that an unconditional surrender from Lebanon and Hezbollah would stop Israel's defensive offensives

[edit on 22-7-2006 by cavscout]

Look, not everyone wants to risk their lives and their families lives to stop a terrorist group. I'm sure most people in Lebanon are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand there is a terrorist group who cares more about their agenda and is willing to kill anyone, including their own people who get in the way to get their job done, and then there is the neighboring country threatning to attack you because of that same terrorist group.

How can they stand up and fight this group when the group is armed and highly skilled and your fellow citizens are just as afraid as they are? I am sorry but they may not be innocent but they certainly aren't guilty either and they certainly don't deserve to die because they were unqualified to stand up to a terrorist group in their own country.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
On one hand there is a terrorist group who cares more about their agenda and is willing to kill anyone, including their own people who get in the way to get their job done, and then there is the neighboring country threatning to attack you because of that same terrorist group.

Right, so they made their choice.

How can they stand up and fight this group when the group is armed and highly skilled and your fellow citizens are just as afraid as they are?

You need to go back to US history class and read about people standing up to a better trained and armed army, a people who called out to larger nations and received help.

That is a reply to you as well, intrepid.

they may not be innocent

thats what I have been saying

but they certainly aren't guilty either

I never said they were

and they certainly don't deserve to die

No, they don’t. But they also don’t deserve to be called innocent.


[edit on 22-7-2006 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout

and they certainly don't deserve to die

No, they don’t. But they also don’t deserve to be called innocent.

Would you care to read my last post and then comment on this?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by cavscout

and they certainly don't deserve to die

No, they don’t. But they also don’t deserve to be called innocent.

Would you care to read my last post and then comment on this?

I responded to your last post, you Crazy Canuck.

Would you care to read the edited version of my last post and then comment on that?


I got to go people, will respond more later, read my sig.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout


I responded to your last post, you Crazy Canuck.

Would you care to read the edited version of my last post and then comment on that?

Sure.

Originally posted by cavscout

How can they stand up and fight this group when the group is armed and highly skilled and your fellow citizens are just as afraid as they are?

You need to go back to US history class and read about people standing up to a better trained and armed army, a people who called out to larger nations and received help.

I think you just described Hezbollah to a tee.

Who would they ask for help? Israel? They'ld be the pariah of the ME. Same goes with the US. Iran and Syria aren't going to help them. Any other ME nation? Not likely to want to piss off some of the other radical nations. They're on their own.

OK, I guess I have time for one more, but then I'm going home.

Originally posted by intrepid

I think you just described Hezbollah to a tee.

Yeah, you got me there. Proves nothing against my point, but you got me.

Same goes with the US.

You cant back that up. We tried once, and hundreds of Marines paid the price.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout

Same goes with the US.

You cant back that up. We tried once, and hundreds of Marines paid the price.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by cavscout]

That was then, this is now. The ME is a whole lot different now. If they asked the US for help now, they'ld be screwed. Calling them guilty, for a lack of a better word, because they can't handle the situation is just plain wrong.

Ok so a child killed by a Israeli missile in lebanon is not innocent?
The child has no conept of politics, religion, or war. He realizes that his parents dont like Israel, he might pretend to hate Israel to emulate their parents, but inside the child does not have any understanding. Does the child have the power to say 'no' to hezbollah like you pronounced?

Originally posted by cavscout

You need to go back to US history class and read about people standing up to a better trained and armed army, a people who called out to larger nations and received help.

That is a reply to you as well, intrepid.

Yes, yet back then there weren't the same kind of weapons that there are today. These terror groups have the expertise and the experience to obtain and make weapons that an average citizen can not. Also, in the revolutionary war, the colonists did not win over the British, they simply held them back until the French came to help us out.

Do you think Israel or the U.S. would help the Lebanese oust Hezbollah? Perhaps, yet I have a feeling they wouldn't. Seems to me they have their own agendas at hand.

[edit on 22-7-2006 by snowflake_obsidian]

Originally posted by intrepid
Iran and Syria aren't going to help them.

Exactly, because Iran and Syria are too busy helping Hezbollah!

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian

Originally posted by intrepid
Iran and Syria aren't going to help them.

Exactly, because Iran and Syria are too busy helping Hezbollah!

Exactly and if they care so little for the people of Lebanon, what do you think they would do if another ME nation came to the aid of the Lebanese against their puppet?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian

Originally posted by intrepid
Iran and Syria aren't going to help them.

Exactly, because Iran and Syria are too busy helping Hezbollah!

Exactly and if they care so little for the people of Lebanon, what do you think they would do if another ME nation came to the aid of the Lebanese against their puppet?

Lebanon would be completely obliterated by each side and their aides?
Then of course Hezbollah would escape unharmed and join Osama in the caves. :p

this thread is down right offensive!

The poor Lebanese people! As someone in the responses has already noted that Israel has attacked ALL infrastructure.

I have friends in Lebanon who state "they are caught between two evils and they are powerless" Since the war I havent heard from them, they are good people that live in a democracy and they are the victims here.

Originally posted by NJE777
this thread is down right offensive!

The poor Lebanese people! As someone in the responses has already noted that Israel has attacked ALL infrastructure.

I have friends in Lebanon who state "they are caught between two evils and they are powerless" Since the war I havent heard from them, they are good people that live in a democracy and they are the victims here.

Yup, and there are some here that get that fact. I hope your friends will be OK.

Originally posted by intrepid
I hope your friends will be OK.

so do I!

I last spoke to them the day the airport was bombed. Both of my friends work in emergency services. One is with fire dept and the other a nurse. Well, firstly he tells me he has been at the airport all day, search & recovery. She has been at the hospital working overtime. They say, (aside from the terrible recount of what they had seen) we are safe, they are not bombing our area, they are in the Northern area, well 10 minutes later they say, there is an airstrike nearby and that they dont think they will have power much longer. Then offline and no word, not even sms.

So now, other areas aside from the southern area have been bombed? How is it that my friends live in the northern part and tell me there is an airstrike in THEIR area???? No part of Lebanon is safe. And Israel offensive is not limited to the southern area of Lebanon. Oh but that would be because hezbollah are using lebanese people as sheilds, mixing with innocent people.

And then I see a thread like this...the author is ignorant of the history of Lebanon. They had not recovered from the previous two wars...they do not have the military strength to deal with the hezbollah.

the ignorance is appaling!

Originally posted by rich23
Thanks for the "what really happened" link - it demonstrates that the Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanon and not kidnapped from within Israel.

This is for you, Malachai, and anyone else still laboring under this misconception:

The Israeli soldiers were not captured in Lebanon. They were captured in Israel.

The notion that they were captured in Lebanon has previously been touted and debunked right here on PTS:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Read the thread and discover the truth. As you read it, just remember the tunnel.

Why would Hezbollah need to use a tunnel to spirit away the soldiers, if they were already in Lebanon?

Yeah about that tunnel... 650 meters of unsupported tunnel through sandy soil in one of the most secure border reigons on earth, from what I understand about tunnels, that's pretty damned miraculous. Of course the length of that tunnel seems to vary depending on which source you find. I guess when you have mossad running around in your front yard, strange things like that can happen. But the whole situation begs the question, with hundreds of dead and 600,000 refugees and a completely demolished infrastructure and a probable new 'buffer zone' carved out of land that once again doesn't belong to Israel in the first place, is a couple of soldiers really adequete justification for that kind of destruction? Funny thing about it is Israel has already said that they won't even consider a prisoner exchange until the end of their military operations in Lebanon. Obviously their priorities aren't a couple of kidnappings. I almost laughed when I read Israel had gone into Gaza just a few days before all of this and 'kidnapped' a couple of suspected militants and added them to the thousands of folks they have locked up.

I read another thread on here talking about photo's of the conflict in lebanon. The photo's were taken off because of the gore of them. I actively searched pictures out on google, im not sure they are the same as posted on the other thread, but still just as shocking.

Please i beg anyone who does read this post, who does feel like lebanon does deserve what they are getting, please search for these pictures. When you see the lifeless bodies of children, people blown apart, their is one picture of a headless armless and legless torso upnext to the unitied nations flag, i will promise you will not agree with your previous position befor. (Please dont search for these pictures if you are highly sensitive)

Just to note the webpage i viewed the pictures of 2 minutes ago fromisraeltolebanon (im not posting a link) was just shut down.


[edit on 083131p://upSunday by wang]

[edit on 083131p://upSunday by wang]

Again, this argument is like going back to the Civil war and deciding that all the black men who died in battle were lynched by the KKK.

Some of the "innocents" are most likely Hezies anyway. Female and Teen alike.

If I'm going to die, I'm going to spend some time trying to save my life, anto a wole lot, but a damn good bit. I then just have to figure out who is more likely to kill me.

Has anyone thought that's why so many "innocents" have stayed? They feel they are more likely to die from the Hezies than from any of Israel's bombing.