Salute Israel for their tactics

Originally posted by centurion1211
Doesn't that 300 also count the innocent Israeli civilians killed by the hizbollah and hamas rockets, as well? Are you saluting those organizations as well? Or is it that you didn't realize they were included in the 300 and their deaths really mean nothing to you?

Well aren't we Saluting Israel for their Wonderful "Diplomacy" in the Middle East?

I think there are 15 Israeli Civilans Casualties so far - which means:

300:15 for Israeli (in football score).

Happy?

Originally posted by jlc163
If I thout that killing every civilian in that country would keep Israel safe, I would be all for nuculear bombing. We already know that you can wipe out 100x as many civilians with one well aimed attack, if you want to run up points for civilian kills.

Why in the world would you justify the killing of civilians when the Israelis are at war with Hezbollah? Or were you being facetious? Just curious, I'm not pursuing arguments on here, just trying to get people to think about what they're saying. Houma eh? Chere...

To those of you who think this is a numbers game - that is sad.

This war is not about killing more people or causing more destruction.

It is about the return of 3 soldiers captured for defending their border. That was thier 'sin'.
It is also about providing Lebanon the freedom that they are entitled to with all its privileges and obligations (obligations being to safegaurd the borders and disarm militias and gangs).
It is about dismantling the Iranian/Syrian war machine (Hizbullah) who acts under the orders of those countries and not the country they claim to serve (Lebanon).

For Hizbullah and Hamas it is a war of religion and conquest - they desire to bring Israel to its knees and to 'liberate' all of Israel in the name of Islam.

So all and all the numbers don't count - It is the objectives and the tactics that count.

Will Israel be brought to it's knees? Will Hizbullah be disarmed, Will Lebanon take control of its country? Will Syria and Iran use Lebanon and its people as their front line against Israel?

Originally posted by niteboy82

Originally posted by jlc163
If I thout that killing every civilian in that country would keep Israel safe, I would be all for nuculear bombing. We already know that you can wipe out 100x as many civilians with one well aimed attack, if you want to run up points for civilian kills.

Why in the world would you justify the killing of civilians when the Israelis are at war with Hezbollah? Or were you being facetious? Just curious, I'm not pursuing arguments on here, just trying to get people to think about what they're saying. Houma eh? Chere...

It wouldn't justify civilian death...said nothing about justifying. I just like expediency. If I thought that a single Nuke would end the issue, I'd press the button myself, in all seriousness.

This whole mess, irrelevant of who started it, whether it's a religious/political issue or not, has been going on for centuries....and it's not just there. It needs to be over. Now. Not 10 seconds from now.

The thing is, life doesn't work like that, neither letting go of your pride and bowing to another country nor destroying them to the point obliterating signs their existance is going to win this. There are going to be deaths. Civilians. Until either ALL Musslim countries unite, or until moderate Musslim countries unite with Israel, there will be no peace. Like the past, this is likely to be just one of the many thousands of wars waged over a dying land. They fight it there, they bring it here, they tug on our sympathies by pulling stupid asinine stunts like hiding behind infants...and that's the pasrt that pisses me off. Hiding behind infants. When you hide behind children, children will die. When you hide behind infants, you piss me off enough to want to literally scrape your face off on concrete. Believe me, it can be done (long story).


In Japan, we bombed 2 cities. Infants died, infants they wern't hiding behind. I can't justify that. It hurts to think about it.

But the one thing it was, was expediant.

[edit on 20-7-2006 by jlc163]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Israel has so far flown over 2000 sorties over Lebanon. Bombed countless targets and with 'only' civilian 300 deaths. My guess is that there are less civilian deaths considering that:

oh is that all ONLY 300 civilian deaths? Here is my salute to israel

You are totally missing the point. Their numbers if fighting like Hezb... is fighting would be catastrophic and the war would be over with now. They need to do Lebanon like we SHOULD HAVE DONE IRAQ !!! Tell everyone to Ger the FREAKIN A outta there .... cause we are bombing the whole freaking country. When they leave Tag thier clothes tell them without this tag they will not get any food or housing and then they are just NUMBERS TO US. At least we can keep track of them that way. ... HURRY TAKE THE TEXANS ADVICE... =-) Then whenever they bomb someone we can catch have of them and get the rest of thems numbers or trace back at least to what country they are from fighting. Right now they could be coming from Syria and Lebanon's ARMY for all we know they could be coming from Iraq and Iran to terrorize Israel ... But if you Number them .. Guess What ... it would be taken care of ... Then turn thier city to Ash .. Rebuild the whole freaking Country ... We set ... =-) ... Ready for the next war ... To all the people who didn't want to leave their homes for a short while , Will be buried with thier homes where they belong. Because if they don't wanna leave something is holding them there and it is 99% CHANCE THAT they are helping the Hezb.................

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
It is about the return of 3 soldiers captured for defending their border. That was thier 'sin'.

Who punishes Israel when they 'sin' and penetrate borders and kidnap Politicians they deem a threat to Israel? Or even civilians like Mordechai Vanunnu on different continents?

It is also about providing Lebanon the freedom that they are entitled to with all its privileges and obligations (obligations being to safegaurd the borders and disarm militias and gangs).
It is about dismantling the Iranian/Syrian war machine (Hizbullah) who acts under the orders of those countries and not the country they claim to serve (Lebanon).

Gee thanks for providing the Lebanese with the freedom that they had before you ever even arrived.
Now who will provide the freedom in Israel for the oppressed there if you are busy freeing other countries? You should stay home and fix the plumbing because its leaking all over your floor.

Pieman,
with every post you just prove you know nothing about the middle east - so I will stop responding. I suggest you read up on history from neurtal sources - Wikipedia would be good. Then when you have a minimal knowledge on the subject we can continue our little debate. Anyhow thanks for the good laughs.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Pieman,
with every post you just prove you know nothing about the middle east - so I will stop responding. I suggest you read up on history from neurtal sources - Wikipedia would be good. Then when you have a minimal knowledge on the subject we can continue our little debate. Anyhow thanks for the good laughs.

Thanks. Yes Wikipedia the neutral source. I don't consider CAMRA or MEMRI as being neutral sources when they are citing articles or their members are editors. Thanks anyways for the propaganda attempt. I had a bunch of laughs here myself.
Here is a link for you.

Palestine Israeli Conflict

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon

You are totally missing the point. Their numbers if fighting like Hezb... is fighting would be catastrophic and the war would be over with now. They need to do Lebanon like we SHOULD HAVE DONE IRAQ !!! Tell everyone to Ger the FREAKIN A outta there .... cause we are bombing the whole freaking country. When they leave Tag thier clothes tell them without this tag they will not get any food or housing and then they are just NUMBERS TO US. At least we can keep track of them that way. ... HURRY TAKE THE TEXANS ADVICE... =-) Then whenever they bomb someone we can catch have of them and get the rest of thems numbers or trace back at least to what country they are from fighting. Right now they could be coming from Syria and Lebanon's ARMY for all we know they could be coming from Iraq and Iran to terrorize Israel ... But if you Number them .. Guess What ... it would be taken care of ... Then turn thier city to Ash .. Rebuild the whole freaking Country ... We set ... =-) ... Ready for the next war ... To all the people who didn't want to leave their homes for a short while , Will be buried with thier homes where they belong. Because if they don't wanna leave something is holding them there and it is 99% CHANCE THAT they are helping the Hezb.................

Why not just tattoo their id across their wrist and stick them in camps?

Imagine the irony...

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
To those of you who think this is a numbers game - that is sad.

This war is not about killing more people or causing more destruction.

It is about the return of 3 soldiers captured for defending their border. That was thier 'sin'.
It is also about providing Lebanon the freedom that they are entitled to with all its privileges and obligations (obligations being to safegaurd the borders and disarm militias and gangs).
It is about dismantling the Iranian/Syrian war machine (Hizbullah) who acts under the orders of those countries and not the country they claim to serve (Lebanon).

For Hizbullah and Hamas it is a war of religion and conquest - they desire to bring Israel to its knees and to 'liberate' all of Israel in the name of Islam.

So all and all the numbers don't count - It is the objectives and the tactics that count.

Will Israel be brought to it's knees? Will Hizbullah be disarmed, Will Lebanon take control of its country? Will Syria and Iran use Lebanon and its people as their front line against Israel?

if the problem is iran and syria then go to war with iran and syria. what's the point of killing a bunch of lebanese?? it ought to be petty damned obvious that the lebanese government is incapable of controlling hizballah. so if you have the balls- go to the damned source!

I for one simply cannot salute Israel, or mine or any other country for acts of aggression. Yes I know Hamas and Hezebullah have attacked Israel and it is justified in defending itself. All well and good...BUT it is counter-productive, nay out and out stupid to think that by bombing civilians in Palestine or Lebanon, civilians that are not inclined to like Israel to being with, that they will be inspired to pressure their governments into reigning in the militants. I would think, if anything, it would encourage them to support the militants even more.

If anything the past few years has highlighted the fact that the Palestinian resistance is so decentralized that it doesn't matter who is in power, Hamas or Fatah, their control over them is minimal at best.

If I were some poor olive farmer in Palestine or Lebanon, caught in the crossfire, I would be cursing both sides, but when push comes to serve, I would probably curse Israel even more, after all if i were some poor olive farmer in Palestine or Lebanon, I would consider Israel the aggressor, the invader.

For thousands of years the Jews were without a country to call their own, with the forcible expulsion of the Palestinians to make the state of Israel, they created a new people without a country and, for people with hundreds of years of history on the land such an act has to be unacceptable...I know it would be to me.

Finally...what Israel, it seems fails to understand, or perhaps it is our media in this country but, either way, the Palestinians consider themselves at war with Israel and since Israel has the far greater might, any method of attack is acceptable; while Israel considers themselves to be fighting terrorists. The difference is considerable. Israel is no stranger to terrorism...the history of the few years leading up to the partition is full of terrorism on both sides.

Neither Israel or the Palestinians are innocent, both sides hands are blood soaked.

No I cannot, nor will I salute Israel.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
So all and all the numbers don't count - It is the objectives and the tactics that count.

So, out of curiosity, if the numbers of Arabs that had to die to achieve these self set objectives were to reach, say, 4 or 5 million would they still not count or would it be worth it to achieve a final solution (for want of a better phrase)?

Originally posted by yanchek
300 civilians dead.

Billions of dollars worth of civilian infrastructure destroyed.

Economicaly ruined country.

Exodus of foreign nationals.

500.000 displaced persons.

Yes, that is something to be proud about.

Well 300 civilian deaths are better then 500,000 right? Not that death should be celebrated under any circumstances, sometimes its inevitable, but the loss of life is never easy to deal with. I don’t get all this hospitality toward Israel, sure they got made like anyone that gets picked on for a long period of time (not saying that haven’t done some picking themselves, hell were all guilty) and they decided to bring it and people are dying, that obviously makes people upset, but I don’t get the hostility, there already there, what do you think is going to happen when they leave huh? The Hezzys are gona throw a tea party for the country sing happy songs and rejoice and say were sorry? Not likely

I feel the tactics used by Israel are effective. Regardless of all the crying done about stopping the attack and all, you think its gona happen over night? I don’t think so the world leaders are gona do what they always do, talk about it for a few months and then maybe do something, meanwhile all your doing is stressing yourself out for something that is completely out of your control. Do not misunderstand me I believe the civilian deaths that have occurred are indeed tragic, but its not going to stop as long as hezzabollah are there so why not figure out how to get them out?

Originally posted by Langolier
I salute them.

I salute them for standing against against murderers.

I salute them for fighting on despite the hail of flak rained on them by their detractors.

I salute the Isrealis.

The fact is Hizbollah and Hamas are the guilty parties in provoking this past week's violence.

Isreal has retreated to the agreed upon 1967 boarders. They were attacked. They have the right to defend themselves; they have the right to bomb the positions that their enemies fire rockets from, even if those enemies deliberately hide amongst the innocent.

No one ever said fighting the good fight was easy or withou its own tragedies. I blame the enemy, and the enemy is radical islam.

not to mention that they are blasting over loud speakers telling civilians to get out of the way. and also they are returning to isrealie territory after they finish with ground opertions.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
not to mention that they are blasting over loud speakers telling civilians to get out of the way. and also they are returning to isrealie territory after they finish with ground opertions.

Oh well, why didn't you say so in the first place? That makes it alright then doesn't it?

They told them they were coming to kill them and they all went home afterwards - such well mannered soldiers, it must be a pleasure to have them come round.

Unfortunately, Lebanon is incapable of fulfilling the terms of 1559. Hezbollah has inserted itself like the cancer they are among the lives of the Lebanese. They commit acts of terrorism against Israel while hiding like cowards behind the Lebanese women and children.

Israel retaliates, and is called the aggressor.

Now, we all know that Hezbollah is an agent of Iran and Syria. There has been a suggestion to take the fight to the source. Then what happens to Israel, while it's military is away? Their border is undefended, and Hezbollah causes more terrorism.

Israel has chosen to defend their border, by pushing any hiding places close to the border back about 20 miles. And in the meantime, to inflict as heavy casualties as possible on Hezbollah, to weaken them.

It is a sad situation, made untenable by a group of terrorists that use civilians as shields.

For once, the world community is speaking in one voice against the terrorism of Hezbollah. This is a good sign. Unfortunately, a country is left in ruins and it's people are set back 50 years.

Originally posted by bombers8
Israel has chosen to defend their border

I really fail to see how bombing the hell out of Beirut airport, bridges and facilities across the country amounts to the border defense.

Originally posted by bombers8
Unfortunately, Lebanon is incapable of fulfilling the terms of 1559.

You have the nerve to quote 1 resolution that lebanon hasn't fullfilled. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Israel retaliates, and is called the aggressor.

Well you can't blame people. 2 troops were kidnapped 2 Humvees destroyed and 8 people killed. In return Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage, infrastructure destroyed, people homeless, 300 civilians dead...Id say that was pretty agressive retaliation.

Now, we all know that Hezbollah is an agent of Iran and Syria.

Who is we all know?

Israel has chosen to defend their border, by pushing any hiding places close to the border back about 20 miles. And in the meantime, to inflict as heavy casualties as possible on Hezbollah, to weaken them.

Civilians are not Hizbollah. You only got about 5 or so of them.

For once, the world community is speaking in one voice against the terrorism of Hezbollah. This is a good sign. Unfortunately, a country is left in ruins and it's people are set back 50 years.

Uhh I think a lot of those voices are including Israel in that as far as responsibility goes. America, Great Britain are not the entire world. As far as the ruins go,just as they did when Israel invaded in 1982 and through 20 years of civil war. Yes they will rebuild.


Pie

Originally posted by AelitaI really fail to see how bombing the hell out of Beirut airport, bridges and facilities across the country amounts to the border defense.

Rockets and other munitions are re-stocked mainly via over the road trucks. That's my guess. Other than that, you'll have to ask the IDF.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
You have the nerve to quote 1 resolution that lebanon hasn't fullfilled. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Yes, I have the nerve. It was a little more serious than a demand for them to brush their teeth.

Well you can't blame people. 2 troops were kidnapped 2 Humvees destroyed and 8 people killed. In return Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damage, infrastructure destroyed, people homeless, 300 civilians dead...Id say that was pretty agressive retaliation.

Judah was right - you need to study current affairs, if not history. You make it sound like the kidnapping happened in a vacuum.

Who is we all know?

OK, PieMan. Let's hear it: do you deny that Hezbollah is not funded and armed by Syria and Iran?

No wiggling. Yes or no? Do you deny it or not?

Civilians are not Hizbollah. You only got about 5 or so of them.

And you know this how? Let's see your sources.

Uhh I think a lot of those voices are including Israel in that as far as responsibility goes. America, Great Britain are not the entire world. Pie

Just ten minutes ago, it was announced that a leading Saudi Arabian cleric had issued a fatwah against Hezbollah. That's just the latest condemnation of the Hezbollah.