Israel Attacks South Beirut

Excuse me, but Mexico isn't OCCUPYING any American land.... so your comparison is a poor one to say the least.

Back on topic:

Isreal and Hezbollah are both guitly of totaly unjustifiable acts of WAR.

Originally posted by XyZeR
Excuse me, but Mexico isn't OCCUPYING any American land.... so your comparison is a poor one to say the least.

Back on topic:

Isreal and Hezbollah are both guitly of totaly unjustifiable acts of WAR.

Its called a hypothetical situation.

Israel wouldn't be occupying the land if they weren't being attacked from those lands... They left gaza and are now back. They left lebanon, years ago, and are now back.

Israel and Egypt made and have kept peace... Think about it...



[edit on 16-7-2006 by American Madman]

Can Anyone from the Pro-Israeli Think Tanks on this Board, explain to me, how come that out of 150 targets attacked by IDF in Lebanon only 12 were aimed at Hizb'Allah? What about all other 138 attacks on Civilan Infrastructure of Lebenon - like airfileds, ports, bridges, power plants, gas stations, families in vans tryin to run away etc? Isn't that an Attack on Lebanon and not Hizb'Allah? Collective Punishment, which EVERY Lebanese Citizen is paying right now?

Yeah, let's check out these "Military Targets" struck by IDF:

Children die in convoy attack as Israel widens Lebanon assault

Israel steeply escalated its military campaign against Hizbollah in Lebanon yesterday with a series of air strikes that left more than 35 civilians dead, including a single strike on a convoy of families fleeing the fighting in a village near Tyre in the south of the country that killed more than 20 people, most of them children.

According to witnesses and photographs from the scene of the worst incident, an Israeli missile incinerated a car and a small truck full of families leaving their Lebanese border village of Marwaheen near Tyre after the Israeli army used loudhailers to tell residents they had just hours to go. Pictures showed charred bodies of children strewn across the road.

Now that is Genocide.

Your source doesn't say anything about target selection. Also it depends on perspective as to what is a hez target and a a civilian target. Destroying a power plant cuts off power to hez, but yes also civilians, destroying a key road stops supplies for HEz, but again it also stops supplies for the civs.

Life is tough and there isn't always, in fact I doubt if ever, there is an antiseptic soluition where everything is right and true...

Its a known tactic that terrorists or freedom fighters place military targets with civilians so that if the target is blown up so too could be some civilians, makes great propaganda. Thats why israel dropped leaflets telling civilians to leave area which hez opperates in...

Hez is drawing lebanon into this purposely they want massive civilian cassulaties to help start their uprising of the arab world against the west. A word comes to mind... Miscalulation...

Originally posted by grover

For an excellent primer on the Arab/Israeli conflict I highly recommend "Holy War" by Historian of religion, Karen Armstrong...its subject is goes beyond the scope of that conflict but it does an excellent job nonetheless.

For a dispassionate look at the problems of the Mid-East, I strongly reccomend "A Peace To End All Peace". The research done for the book is absolutely first rate and the book inself reads more like a novel than a history text.

Souljah the wording used by the press in the article you cite is unfortunate, but a car and a truck do not a convoy make. That's still no excuse to attack people fleeing the scene of fighting, but the connotations of the words used to describe it would not be so negative and emotion laden. For the IDF to attack vehicles leaving the scene, especially after having warned them to do so, is inexcusable. Such actions only serve to insure the civilians will not heed such recommendations in the future. The pilot of the attacking plane should be the subject of an immediate investigation into the incident.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

Who said the car truck was full of civilians... I'm not saying it wasn't, but I imagine Hez. isn't going to report their dead as combatants... And any person in regular clothing in a hospital will be reported as a civilian that doesn't mean they were.

Again maybe they were civilians, but who's to say...

Originally posted by American Madman
Who said the car truck was full of civilians... I'm not saying it wasn't, but I imagine Hez. isn't going to report their dead as combatants... And any person in regular clothing in a hospital will be reported as a civilian that doesn't mean they were.

Again maybe they were civilians, but who's to say...

In this case, the AP correspondent who wrote the article, was a witness (along with others) and they apparently counted at least 12 children among the victims. Besides, that's what an investigation is for--to get at the truth of what happened and why.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

Originally posted by Souljah
Can Anyone from the Pro-Israeli Think Tanks on this Board, explain to me, how come that out of 150 targets attacked by IDF in Lebanon only 12 were aimed at Hizb'Allah? What about all other 138 attacks on Civilan Infrastructure of Lebenon - like airfileds, ports, bridges, power plants, gas stations, families in vans tryin to run away etc? Isn't that an Attack on Lebanon and not Hizb'Allah? Collective Punishment, which EVERY Lebanese Citizen is paying right now?

Yeah, let's check out these "Military Targets" struck by IDF:

Children die in convoy attack as Israel widens Lebanon assault

Israel steeply escalated its military campaign against Hizbollah in Lebanon yesterday with a series of air strikes that left more than 35 civilians dead, including a single strike on a convoy of families fleeing the fighting in a village near Tyre in the south of the country that killed more than 20 people, most of them children.

According to witnesses and photographs from the scene of the worst incident, an Israeli missile incinerated a car and a small truck full of families leaving their Lebanese border village of Marwaheen near Tyre after the Israeli army used loudhailers to tell residents they had just hours to go. Pictures showed charred bodies of children strewn across the road.

Now that is Genocide.

Souljah if you really want the answer to your question which, as usual, is inaccurate look here.

Souljah, ever think of opening a pan-Arab propeganda site?

[edit on 16/7/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

Originally posted by Souljah
Can Anyone from the Pro-Israeli Think Tanks on this Board, explain to me, how come that out of 150 targets attacked by IDF in Lebanon only 12 were aimed at Hizb'Allah? What about all other 138 attacks on Civilan Infrastructure of Lebenon - like airfileds, ports, bridges, power plants, gas stations, families in vans tryin to run away etc? Isn't that an Attack on Lebanon and not Hizb'Allah? Collective Punishment, which EVERY Lebanese Citizen is paying right now?

Here's a pro-Israel think tank, Souljah.
MiddleEastInfo.org

RM was right:,

"This all sounds like a staged setup to world war and its war economy, while the G8 meetings are deciding the specifics and rules of combat."

...the G8 did take the occasion to put out a missive of recommendations:

Middle East
St. Petersburg, July 16, 2006

Our goal is an immediate end to the current violence, a resumption of security cooperation and of a political engagement both among Palestinians and with Israel. This requires:

- An end to terrorist attacks against Israel;

- A resumption of the efforts of President Abbas to ensure that the Palestinian government complies with the Quartet principles;

- Immediate expansion of the temporary international mechanism for donors established under the direction of the Quartet;

- Israeli compliance with the Agreement on Movement and Access of November 2005 and action on other steps to ease the humanitarian plight of the people of Gaza and the West Bank;

- Resumption of security cooperation between Palestinians and Israelis;

- Action to ensure that the Palestinian security forces comply with Palestinian law and with the Roadmap, so that they are unified and effective in providing security for the Palestinian people;

- Resumption of dialogue between Palestinian and Israeli political officials.

These proposals are our contribution to the international effort underway to restore calm to the Middle East and provide a basis for progress towards a sustainable peace, in accordance with the relevant UN Security Council Resolutions. The Quartet will continue to play a central role. The G-8 welcomes the positive efforts of Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan as well as other responsible regional actors to return the region to peace. We look forward to the report of the Secretary General's mission to the Security Council later this week which we believe could provide a framework for achieving our common objectives.

The only way I see that this conflict doesn't continue to escalate is that Lebanon agrees to crack down on the Hezbollah. After the fight with Hezbollah goes on for a while, it seems possible that Syria will intervene. If Syria gets involved, it seems likely Iran will intervene in Syria's defence.

In this situation, it would seem that the US would be forced to intervene. Although, this situation would be very explosive. I don't think Israel really has the power projection capabilities to fight a war with Iran. However, in desperation they could always use their nukes.

Considering this, an even more dangerous situation would be if the US didn't intervene. If Israel were forced to nuke Tehran, would the world sit idle. How would other countries react?

Also, if Syria and Iran get drawn, will any other Arab countries get involved in the war? The war could turn into a mess quick.

The other thing to consider is how the world would be affected if the middle east got drawn into a major war. Of course, oil prce would surge, benefiting countries like Russia and Venezuela. Does Russia want to escalate the conflict? Also, in Israel, Prime Minister Olmert is relatively new leader. Is he handling the situation properly?

Originally posted by Johnny Ohm
Good for Israel, kick butt, slaughter the terrorists, if Bush can invade 2 countries after one attack Israel should be able to...(doing the math) invade 1,233,049 countries.

So you likeb the killing innocent people sick ?

Its thinking like this that make me wanna crawl up and die.

Originally posted by American Madman
Your source doesn't say anything about target selection. Also it depends on perspective as to what is a hez target and a a civilian target. Destroying a power plant cuts off power to hez, but yes also civilians, destroying a key road stops supplies for HEz, but again it also stops supplies for the civs.

Life is tough and there isn't always, in fact I doubt if ever, there is an antiseptic soluition where everything is right and true...

Its a known tactic that terrorists or freedom fighters place military targets with civilians so that if the target is blown up so too could be some civilians, makes great propaganda. Thats why israel dropped leaflets telling civilians to leave area which hez opperates in...

Hez is drawing lebanon into this purposely they want massive civilian cassulaties to help start their uprising of the arab world against the west. A word comes to mind... Miscalulation...

In Jon Lovitz voice

Yea....that's the ticket It depends on perspective, see? It's a hez target,yeaaaaaa. And it probably was infected with tons of hezzies, yeaaaaaa. And there were shooting the Israeli's with Laser Beam Canines,YEAAAA. That's the ticket! AND Life is tough,see.Truth is they weren't even civilians but arabic demons conjured by evil satanic Djinns sent to destroyFREEDOM! YEAAAAA Its all propaganda and lies from the MEDIA always trying to get America. Well nice try cuz I see through your thin veil. Yeaaaa, it's all collateral damage. Freaking commies make me sick

Everytime a child dies or a civilian count goes up your theory gets pounded mercilessly into powdery dust. Israel should show restraint. This is going to cost them more with each day of killing sprees. If you can't see that then you are not thinking critically. Israeli overstepped their bounds,period. The trick is defend Israel no matter what AND if someone criticizes call them anti semetic. You have to love Western Punditry.

i wonder what side killed first and what side has killed more ppl ,since the decade or so since it has been happening ?

[edit on (7/16/0606 by redrum781]

The Israelis have killed a lot more Arabs than the Arabs have killed Israelis, a fact Israel's defenders continually ignore.

While they like to pretend the killing goes only one way, with Israelis doing all the dying, it's because they don't consider Arabs quite fully human, and thus their deaths don't count. And as far as targeting civilians goes - the constant complaint of Israel's defenders against it's Arab antagonists - it's a game both sides play when it suits them.

It seems to me the current situation was precipitated by Hamas and Hezbollah attacks on IDF military forces - to which Israel has responded by slaughtering civilians in Gaza and Lebanon.


[edit on 7/16/06 by xmotex]

The situation in Lebanon is going to turn into a massive humanitarian crisis very soon. There are millions of people inside Lebanon soon to be totally without effective transportation and medical facilities for the care of themselves. Further, sewage, water and even basic food supplies cannot sustain the population that has been basically cut off from the rest of the world. Moreover, this aspect of the on-going military operations within Lebanon is only going to get worse in the near term. An emergency effort by the international community is clearly going to be needed very soon.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

You have voted xmotex for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Well said, Israel still has this childish but unfortunately deadly mentality that it must respond tit for tat with more force. They launch a few rockets and hit nothing Israel has to immediately bomb civilian buildings and houses in response. Their tactics and strategy are alienating more than just the Arab world, they don’t know where Hezbollah is so they target the entire country and key civilian infrastructure to punish the people of Lebanon?

Originally posted by xmotex
The Israelis have killed a lot more Arabs than the Arabs have killed Israelis, a fact Israel's defenders continually ignore.

While they like to pretend the killing goes only one way, with Israelis doing all the dying, it's because they don't consider Arabs quite fully human, and thus their deaths don't count. And as far as targeting civilians goes - the constant complaint of Israel's defenders against it's Arab antagonists - it's a game both sides play when it suits them.

It seems to me the current situation was precipitated by Hamas and Hezbollah attacks on IDF military forces - to which Israel has responded by slaughtering civilians in Gaza and Lebanon.


[edit on 7/16/06 by xmotex]

erm yes mate. Lets judge the morality of each side or the justification of one of the parties by simply comparing deaths on each side.....

Fotr those of you who suscribe to the simplistic form of thinking I will assist you in understanding the reasons for Israel's actions:
1- When Hezbullah/Palestinian cry about houses being blown up, schools being hit etc. etc. what they don't say is that those houses hit were hiding grad missiles (Katyusha). I know, you'll mumble something like ooh that is a convienient excuse!!!
2- When civilians get hurt (llike the mini-van hit with the civilians on board) Hezbullah really splattered that on the NEWS. What Hezbullah did not say is that their fighters fired rockets from that area not very long before the minibus was hit.
3- When you speak of the damage to residential area in southern Beirut what is not mentioned is that those houses desroyed were Hezbullah strong hold complexes and homes of senior Hezbullah operatives.
4- When the airport was attacked it was said that it is a civilian target. But that civilian target is equivalently used to fly in Mujhadin fighters and supplies. Now Syria is supplying Hezbullah from northern Lebanon which Israel is attacking as well.

Has it ever occured to any of the critics of Israel that if Hezbullah did not attack Israel this would have never happened. I know, i know, You'll say that Israel would have found another exuse to attack. Well it seems like you are right. In the last 6 years Hezbullah attacked israel over 40 times so it was just a matter of time.

BTW - Both in southern lebanon and in southern Beirut warning were given to residents to leave the area. On the other hand Hezbullah offers NO such warning (except to Haifa). Hezbullah concentrates its attack in daylight hours as to maximize the civilain casualties even though it is easiler for them to attack in the cover of night.


[edit on 17/7/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

Has it ever occured to any of the critics of Israel that if Hezbullah did not attack Israel this would have never happened.

Has it ever occurred to any of Israel's monomaniacal apologists that if Israel would stop attacking Lebanon every few years Hezbollah wouldn't exist?!

As for the claim that everything being hit in Lebanon is a Hezbollah target, what a crock.

The bridges and roads being hit are Hezbollah bridges and roads? The minivan full of little kids that got blown apart, let me guess: it was a Hezbollah van, and the little kids were all little Jihadis smuggling C-4 inside their stuffed animals

My tax money is paying for Israel's ability to commit these atrocities, and it's time for that to stop. We have no more business supplying Israel with weaponry to kill it's neighbors than we do giving money and weaponry other fanatical regimes like Iran or North Korea.

[edit on 7/17/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex

Has it ever occured to any of the critics of Israel that if Hezbullah did not attack Israel this would have never happened.

Has it ever occurred to any of Israel's monomaniacal apologists that if Israel would stop attacking Lebanon every few years Hezbollah wouldn't exist?!

As for the claim that everything being hit in Lebanon is a Hezbollah target, what a crock.

The bridges and roads being hit are Hezbollah bridges and roads? The minivan full of little kids that got blown apart, let me guess: it was a Hezbollah van, and the little kids were all little Jihadis smuggling C-4 inside their stuffed animals

My tax money is paying for Israel's ability to commit these atrocities, and it's time for that to stop. We have no more business supplying Israel with weaponry to kill it's neighbors than we do giving money and weaponry other fanatical regimes like Iran or North Korea.

[edit on 7/17/06 by xmotex]

Let me repeat what I said above in small sentences so that everyone can understand:
Bus . . . bombed . . . because . . . it . . . .was . . .near. . . rocket. . . launchers . . . who . . . attacked . . .Haifa . . .
Israel . . . Need . . . to . . .stop . . . rocket . . . attack . . . so . . . Israeli . . do . . .not . . get . . .killed.

Of course from the sky on a cloudy day israel could have mistaken the van as a transport of the rockets. Anywhich way the explanation for that attack was that the van was in close proximity to the launch site.

BTW - What was Hezbullahs excuse for attacking a train depot? or a woman drinking coffee in Naharya on her terrace? or a family watching TV at home in Miron, or a man riding his motorcycle on the street in Safed?
Have we all forgotten that the side that is intentionally and solely attacking civilian populations when it provides no military gain is Hezbullah??
Oh but that is OK.

Remember when Bugs Bunny and Daffy would argue if it is duck season or rabbit season????

Well it is Hezbullah season!!!!