Israel Attacks South Beirut

xmotex I'm already on record as saying the widespread bombing of the Lebanese infrastructure is wrong; however, that does not negate the truth of what I said about the Lebanese Army supporting their citizens, not Israel. I'll even agree that attempted action on their part could have re-ignited the civil war--remember, I did say they didn't have the wherewithal to do it. Hezbollah constitutes a clear danger to the civilians of Lebanon just by being allowed to exist and we both know it. If the civilians see Hezbollah as somehow benign and preferable to securing their own safety (and the safety of their families) that is their right, but it does remove them from the innocent civilian grouping to a large extent.

And not only that; it makes them implicit in the acts perpetrated by Hezbollah. If I see someone kill somebody else, and help them escape, I'm considered an accomplice, and if caught, will be serving time just like the other SOB that committed the crime.

If the Lebanese support Hezbollah, then they have, by definition, become a terrorist state. If that's true, then let the bombing commence, and sit back and watch the fireworks.

TheBorg

P.S. I just want to make it clear that I don't believe that the people of Lebanon have sided with Hezbollah. I know of several that don't like them at all, and condemn them for the acts they have perpetrated. However, there's not much that these people can do about it at this time. They're just waiting to see what Israel does. I, for one, wish Israel the best because these are terrorists they are going after after all.

I'll admit that I haven't read this whole thread. It makes me tired, to be honest. So many people happy that Israel can go and kick some Arab butt and kill innocent civilians on a trumped-up pretext. FYI, the "kidnapped" Israeli soldiers were captured within Lebanon's borders, and Israel has been kidnapping Lebanoese citizens without comment for some time. Surprise, these items have not been widely promulgated by your friendly neighbourhood corporate media.

Secondly, to the person who supplied a link to "the truth" which tried to equate the supposed new wave of anti-semitism with anti-Zionism... I got so bored with that link and irked with its slanted viewpoint and selective "scholarship" (let alone its patronising tone) that I really couldn't be bothered to click for more than six or seven pages. I got the message, though: classic Israeli lobby propaganda.

FACT: ARABS are SEMITES TOO. This is something that violently pro-Israel apologists want to forget. Indeed, a few years back there was a study that showed that genetically, Arabs and Jews are indistinguishable and THAT drew huge fire from the shrill Zionists. But etymologically there is no doubt that the word anti-semitism refers to both arabs and jews.

I grew up in a world in which everyone remembered, with horror, what happened to six million Jews in Germany, and in which "plucky little Israel" was surrounded by Arab nations desperate to wipe them out. As I got older, I realised that things were a little more nuanced than that, and eventually I read enough tales of IDF snipers killing peace protesters and small children, IDF bulldozers flattening Palestinian homes and slicing peace activists in two, and of the brutal and inhumane treatment meted out to Palestinians every day, that my sympathy for the Israeli cause withered and died. Compound this with the nefarious activities of the Israeli lobby, who seek to brand anyone who portrays Israel as less than saintly a rabid anti-semite, and all of my once overflowing sympathy is gone.

That doesn't mean I'm prejudiced against Jews. It just means that I think there are certain countries in the world whose government does evil things with the support of too many of its population: and the US and Israel are high on the list.

So, as Britguy said... don't play the anti-semitic card. It's worn out. No-one thinks that a conspiracy of International Jews wants to take over the world (although it is kind of interesting the number of people in the Bush cabinet with very close ties to Israel). On the other hand, why should one country be able to bomb another on the flimsiest of pretexts? If I don't speak out against this, at the very least, I am complicit with it because my country supports this atrocity.

rich23:

You bring up a very good point, and one I understand. No side is perfect. No group of people are perfect. Everyone makes mistakes, which cause unforseen consequences. I don't like war anymore than anyone else does, but I have to wonder at the motives of these two warring groups.

They've been fighting for 4.5 millenia now. When will it end? Or will it? Someone just needs to FINISH this already. One side or other needs to win. Then peace can be established. No more of this ceasefire crap. All that does is buy a few months until the next rocket attack from one or the other side. Someone has to WIN this little confrontation once and for all.

TheBorg

This whole thing is simply a back door to Iran.

Can't have another 911 here. Too many miffed off people watching for another event.

So why not have an out of the country event. Walla no American citizens local to investigate. But to help them with their terroristic problems, the US will send them fuel, and bunker busters, and a note saying the USA will blow anyone to bits if they don't let Israel play bullie, bullie.

Well, lookie over there in the sand on the Syrian side. Is that WMD? Well what do you know, after all this bombing we have evidence of terrorism.

This game is beginning to be an insult to the citizens of the United States.

These endorsed warcrimes are a disgrace to this nation.

Originally posted by The Water Man

This game is beginning to be an insult to the citizens of the United States.

These endorsed warcrimes are a disgrace to this nation.

Yes, but what can you do about it? We can sit here and discuss it all night but there's not much we can do to stop these things happening. Or is there?

Originally posted by xmotex
As has been explained more than once in this forum, the Lebanese army is a small force of about 60,000, and simply doesn't have the strength to disarm Hezbollah.

And Hezbullah is 20,000 strong. That makes the Lebanese army 3 times the size of Hezbullah.

Second of all, any attempt to do so would reignite the Lebanese civil war.

True, with the support of Syria and Iran.

Lastly, Lebanon has no logical reason to take such risks solely for the benefit of Israel, a country that by its actions is clearly the enemy of all Lebanese, and not just Hezbollah.

Hezbullah has highjacked Lebanese soveirgnty with the aid of Iran and Syria and endangered its civilian population by using them as human shields. I think that is enough reason to put your foot down and reclaim Lebanon for the Lebanese people.

To explore the "mindset of the Lebanese government", ask yourself this question: who are the enemies of Lebanon? Israel, which is currently bombing the stuffing out of Lebanon, or Hezbollah, which is not?

If I were Lebanese, I'd be asking Hezbollah where I sign up to go and fight my attackers, were I Muslim or not.
[edit on 7/22/06 by xmotex]

Israel primarily destroyed Hezbullah stronghold. What you saw in Beirut is in the Shiite quarters. Those who are against Hezbullah are very hopeful Hezbullah disappears.


[edit on 24/7/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

Well at least the Israelis have very accurate weapons that allow them to target Red Cross ambulances -

And how come - since this now obsesses the humanitarian organisations working in Lebanon - that the Israelis bombed two ambulances in Qana, killing two of the wounded inside and wounding the third civilian for the second time in a day. All the crews were injured - one with a piece of shrapnel in his neck - but what worried the Lebanese Red Cross was that the Israeli missiles had clearly pierced the very centre of the red cross painted on the roof of each vehicle. Did the pilots use the cross as their aiming point?

Bush's Plan for "Serial War" revealed by General Wesley Clark

"[The] Five-year campaign plan [includes]... a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan" (Pentagon official quoted by General Wesley Clark)

"Winning Modern Wars" (page 130) General Clark states the following:

"As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan.

...He said it with reproach--with disbelief, almost--at the breadth of the vision. I moved the conversation away, for this was not something I wanted to hear. And it was not something I wanted to see moving forward, either. ...I left the Pentagon that afternoon deeply concerned."

Interesting no?

Does anybody still remember Rafik Hariri?

Yes?

Well his Assassination caused the retreat of Syrians army from Lebanon.

You follow?

Now that there is no Syrian army in Lebanon - Israel is BACK.

Interesting chain of events...

I'm going to follow this situation very closely for a while, if for no other reason than the historical value that it will have in coming generations. These events, happening right now, will have long-lasting effects on the rest of the world for generations to come. I'm anxious to see what tomorrow brings.

TheBorg