The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

Hmmm...I've been thinking about the majority of my second big posting on page 8; Most of it refers more to a "missing Amendment" rather than about banking corruption. Perhaps I should edit out the specifics that coincide with this thread & start a new thread about that Amendment? I have to admit, I got pretty sidetracked from the original theme of this thread.

Opinons please?


Something else I just noticed about the link I made to Microsuck in an earlier post:
The automatic "profanity editor" messed up the url link hidden under the text. If you click on it, the real website won't load because the actual web address uses the "F word" as part of the address. Right here, you'll have to supply the real missing three letters where I substitute hyphens:
www.f---microsoft.com...

Yes, it's an actual web address. It also used to be the official name of the website. They changed the name of the site, but couldn't change the actual address so easily.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

So, I've been spending a good part of the day researching how the fed works. As part of my research I came across various conspiracy theories with claims similar to this thread. As far as I can tell, none of these theories are based on any facts or even quotes that do not come from other conspiracy pages.

In any case, I will now attempt to explain certain missed facts about the fed so that you may see it is not a scam.

First off- the Fed itself is an independent government entity. The 12 central banks within the fed are all private, but are still under control of the federal reserve board, an independent government entity.

Second- All of the stock holders of these private central banks are other (normal) private banks. Certain national banks were required to purchase stock. Other more local banks had/have the option of purchasing stock. This stock is not normal... it does not give the owners any voting rights or power in any part of the federal reserve. All it did was supply initial capital(so that the government did not have to). In return, the holders of stock get a 6% dividend payed semianually. That means for $100 in stock, the owner gets $3 every 6 months. This is not making the stock holding banks rich, they could get much higher returns on their capital by lending money. It should be noted that these payments, the only money that any corporations make off of the federal reserve, are insignificant compared to the profits that the federal reserve makes.

Other than this, money made off of interest and fees by these central banks goes to cover other expenses. Left over money goes to the US treasury department. So, if anyone is getting rich off of this, it is the US government.

Further, we can easily calculate how much the federal reserve is making per year, and it is nowhere near $1 trillion dollars. It is easy to figure out. In 2005, there were roughly $750 Billion dollars in circulation. That is the extent of the money "created" by the federal reserve. During this year, the central banks in the federal reserve leant out money at rates from 2.5%-4.5%. Being extremely generous for the sake of simplification, 5% of $750 Billion is $37.5 Billion dollars. After dividends and expenses, the rest of this money went to our governments treasury department.

I am not bothering to include any sources, because this information can be easily found on legitimate websites, not cracked out conspiracy sites. Do some actual research and try to understand what is going on.

Now, if our government had managed its money well, and wasn't in debt to the federal reserve for much much more than that, it would actually be making money off of this little deal. The only reason it has to pay ridiculous interest to the federal reserve is because of the mismanagement of the federal budget leading to our current deficit, on which the government pays interest, both to the federal reserve, and to all other lenders.

Honestly, you owe the banking system for the success of the economy over the past hundred years. Worldwide GDP dwarfs what it could be without central banking systems, as these really do enable business to thrive... Having a constant source of capital and a relatively stable currency do wonders. I"m not saying that the federal reserve doesn't make mistakes... it does, as does everything run by people. I'm just saying that overall it is a desirable system and is most definitely not a scam lining anyone's pockets.


You'll also notice, since profits are given to the government, which in turn spends money, giving it to other parties, that there is in fact no ever increasing debt buildup. It is all just a big transfer of debt. Debts owed to the federal reserve can always be paid back, the goverment is just getting a little free money in the process.

I will be happy to elaborate further if any of you want clarification, but I'm not getting into an argument about this.

Peace

I will be happy to elaborate further if any of you want clarification, but I'm not getting into an argument about this.

You don't need to elaborate. You believe what the Illuminati want alot of people to believe (some people call those people sheeple). That is fine. That is your choice. The numbers you discuss are just for the US. The $750 Billion you mention (if that number is accurate since you refuse to give sources because you feel you don't have to). You seem to not realize that the FED loans out money to all sorts of countries all over the world and has bankrupted them all as a result including the United States. The $1 trillion per year the 300 or so private stockholders make is not a fake number. You obviously haven't done your homework and have no clue as to the amount of money these banks create out of thin air, how many countries they do business with, how much interest they make on all these loans and all this funny money they create, what else they do with the money to make more money, the fact that the FED is tax exempt (which is quite odd for a for-profit organization).

These 300 or so stockholders don't just run the FED. They are also business people and control the oil industry, auto industry, chemical industry (i.e. DuPont), Big Pharma, etc. etc. etc.......So you need to ask yourself: Why are these people the people that we allow to control our money? Why? Because they also own our government and our politicians. These are the Illuminati and these are the people working on making a NWO!!

You don't want to argue? Then don't. You seem to be in the wrong place. Why?

1. You want to be able to post your opinion without getting any feedback (except of course if it is in agreement with you)
2. You want to state your case and present information without sources (you feel you are somehow better than us and shouldn't be required to show us where your information comes from)
3. This is an open forum. That means if you are going to give us your opinion, we are going to give you ours......and ours isn't always going to agree with yours.

So, my suggestion would be that if you don't want to argue, don't spend time on an open forum. Arguing is how we learn. Arguing is debating and that's what we do here!

"When you're green you're growing. When you're ripe, you're dead." - Einstein

It's much better to be green. If you feel you know everything, where do you go from there??

Dear JefeElJefe,

Money is a means of exchange and no one has the right to charge interest on our issuing of capital no matter what you call them. 99.99% of the time, they do not have the right to inflate economies, cause recessions, depressions and rig the markets. They do almost 100% of the time and when I speak of International Bankers, I do not mean people running your local branches because when the International bankers came into America, they went to war with the smaller banks and Trusts and eventually through politics and sabotage, crushed them or amalgamated them. It does not matter if this so-called FED is 100% run by the government or 100% private owned. What matters is the system itself is not the same system that is supposed to be in operation in America, which is to say, the system based upon Congress issuing the nations capital based upon a Gold Standard and one which cannot place upon the masses, the appetite of an uncontrollable a criminal enterprise that must continue to consume - like a government that forces the economy into debt.

I certainly appreciate you being the new poster here and finding it reasonable to spend all day and clear up these so-called ‘conspiracy theories’ regarding the FED. We would prefer not to frighten anyone else by advising of the true upcoming economic situation either, so we thank you for taking the necessary time to assist us in letting us know that everything will be just fine. Well, actually it will not just be fine but that also depends on your spiritual beliefs and from where you are standing now. Age and experience is part of my background in finance and I can assure you that those of us who do know something, or get lucky enough to know it, or just so happen to have good references and connections, are investing in Gold and Silver related assets today – unless of course they have been covered by the US government for all their losses – and in that event they are with the bad guys. Speaking of covering for “shorting” and “selling” losing positions, do you recall the recent activity of Mr. Warren Buffet selling & shorting much of his Silver and Gold related assets? My-my, people really rushed out to be selling their Gold and Silver related assets after that announcement; for who wouldn’t know better about the markets than a man as wealthy as Mr. Buffet? After all, the idea was you don’t need to be buying Gold and Silver when the Dow and NASDAQ are looking fantastic, right? I do thank Mr. Buffet and the others who continue sell and short Gold and Silver, as it has provided us an opportunity to purchase at way below real market value.

Now would it be of any consequence that making such bold claims about the FED after one day’s worth of research is not truly based upon any solid foundation of truth-seeking; for such an ideology of truth cannot be found by anyone claiming they know more than anyone else after spending a day or two day studying the FED on the internet. Allow me to introduce myself to you sir, as someone who may have been involved with operating his own Brokerage Firm, and may have worked at the Morgan Bank and an individual who may know more about Gold and Silver and the related markets then most people on Wall Street do today. Or I could be just pulling your leg and have no idea what I’m talking about and just here to blow some hot air and scare everyone about doom and gloom? Naturally, on these forums we can never get together over lunch and get to truly know each other any better than what we claim to be here. But not that anyone can really be all knowing; for that would insult the very same “illuminists” who claim that they are all knowing and all powerful and who have placed such lovely symbols upon the FIAT dollar. But the Founding Fathers if they were alive today, surly would tend to agree with “Excitable Boy” and the other posters here who are overall correct in their views regarding this scam, being just another ponzi scheme. One need only read the Founding Fathers own words and that much is already pretty much set in stone. In fact the very owners of the FED today have admitted it themselves that they planned a conspiracy on the Island known as “Jeckal Island” and they see no big deal in hiding this reality nowadays. Since these criminals wish the US dollar to remain strong by having the world (including the criminals) invest in US Treasuries (worth almost nothing) and also to not be buying Gold and Silver related assets, I actually go out of my way to try and upset them in every capacity. In fact, they would love to be rid of someone like me, particularly if they realised just how many people I have encouraged and moved into purchasing Gold and Silver related assets. But I came here to help spread some truth by looking out for nonsense which is at the heart of the matter, just trying to cover up for all the lies by telling us that the US dollar is worth investing in, even though the dollar is today worth little more than about 4 pennies. I seriously doubt you are deliberately spreading lies, but nonetheless you are spreading nonsense which I have no choice other than to intervene and help educate you. I wish to remind at this point that the FED note is not belonging to any member of Congress; nor of the American people even though only Congress may by law, issue the nations currency. Not to mention that the Supreme Court decision has upheld the fact that Congress has no new powers to issue capital other than what it had from very beginning. I’m afraid most Americans have never had a single bad day in their life and as such they almost forgot about saving for the rainy day ahead, for something this simple is rarely understood as meaning saving up for a Depression, they are in for some tough times ahead. But you and many like you, do not knew about this because the FED does not want Americans to be panicking and when the FED jumps ship, they plan on being first – not the last. And you people who get stuck behind are going to be left to pick up the bill.

Now by claiming the FED (after one day’s research) is not a scam I have to say it seems a fairly mammoth statement to proclaim. Considering the FED is not a Federal entity and was never passed into law by a majority Congressional vote and also that even if it had been passed by a majority Congress it would still not be a “Reserve” having 100% backing in Gold. Doing a vote with the majority of Congressman on Christmas vacation is not voting and not what I call a proper vote. In another area, even to this very day, there is also no law requiring anyone to pay income tax, yet the FED enforces a law that has never even been shown to us through the IRS and other agencies.

If you can find the law requiring Americans to pay income please let us all know about it.

The criminals are rarely going to debate us on this at any length, for they know it will draw to them too much attention, you see? Fractional Reserve Banking is not compatible with a Constitutional Republic and so you have made quite the bold statement here that it is not a scam. Now the FED is a Central Banking Cartel and not a government agency, even though many in the FED are also working in government as high-level officials. The FED is often referred to as a private body - it has also never once been audited - but it is also not quite correct to call it “Private” either. To be truly private means no government involvement and free enterprise but since it is not based upon free enterprise, it by definition a CARTEL. The correct name for the FED is a “CARTEL” because the government is working with the FED in unison and the FED gives their command to the Vice President and to Congress also. The Congressman act like trustees for the FED, instead of acting as representatives for the people and by the people! Now this is why I say, Americans may get only one more election so throw out all of Congress, or you better arm yourself. If you dislike violence as much I do, then vote them out based solely upon their past voting record – not their party! The FED’s board is not appointed by Bush and this so-called appointment by Bush is simply a list of men that is presented to Mr. Bush by the shareholders of the FED; who therein tell Mr. Bush who to select (based on the list) and thus, it appears that Bush selects them – even though they have already been selected. Bush and the rest of those lunatics in the White House and Congress (with some very small exception) could barely hope to find their way out of a bathroom! They remind me of the IMF, btw. The IMF makes up a group of little minions who like to bankrupt other nations and help install dictators. These minions wrote about the coming economical disaster in the Toronto Star last week, as if they were so worried. Well, they caused the major crisis today that we are now facing and they are now concerned all of a sudden? How so? Well, they obviously are telling the mainstream public that they can expect to see a dollar decline but the issue therein lies whether they are going to allow the US dollar to collapse fast, or slowly. Obviously, they choose a slow decline of the dollar and cannot now stop it, and so this is an indication that they are holding up the economy by shorting Gold and Silver and allowing the dollar to remain as high as possible. The taxpayers are not paying for the Vice President’s paycheck the Shareholders of the FED do. The Shareholders of the FED control the government and as Lord Rothschild said give me the power to issue the nations capital, and I care not who writes its laws. Rothschild also said, that in a Bull market, you never care about the top and bottom 25%, you go for the average in the middle, you see?

Now every day, these criminals wake up and come up with their daily quota of capital they wish to spend on manipulating markets. These criminals tell the firms and large banks what positions to short and what to buy and sell for the day. And they go out and do this all in unison – which is of course illegal but the SEC and anyone with half a brain in this industry can see by now that it is illegal and do nothing about it. It’s so obviously the SEC is also in on it because if they say no, then they lose the chance to retire and then get a job at the FED, you see? I told one SEC member to his face what I thought of him and his job and he just frowned and walked away because they simply do not care what we think. And although their mission is complex at times, the end goal of each and every day for them is very simple – keep the US dollar high and keep the corporations and investors very happy, by forcing the Gold and precious metals to go down in value.

Income tax and inflation are caused through the FED’s printing of FIAT notes. They can mask inflation by increasing interest rates but when production and interests rates are not high enough to balance this printing out, and then they keep on printing, we have eventual hyper- inflation. Now recall that inflation is only permitted by Congress in the event of an economic disaster but this is only a provision given to do in case of war and also in case of extreme times of duress – like during a Depression. The FED prints, for example 20 billion dollars in a day from thin air and also has a total amount of capital from the REPO poll and other areas to work with each trading morning. So in total (on an average day – based on my experience) they may have about 800 billion each day to play with by using it to short and manipulate the markets. So the Shareholders of the FED tell the employees of the FED, to go and print the money and then lend this money out to the various smaller banks, institutions and firms. Then those same banks, firms and institutions in turn use this FIAT currency to buy back Government Bonds and also to lend out to smaller banks. This is also a large part of the deal here. Now the smaller banks thus lend this money out to us little people – and sometimes at very low interest rates because they can afford to do this having no competition. But the FED also lends the money out to Mr. Bush and his gang of lunatic thugs who need it for wars in Iraq or Iran, or whatever etc. But guess what, Bush cannot possibly receive enough money back from the taxes, drugs and donations alone, so he just gets the FED to print him some more money from thin air and he spends even more! So what right does the FED have to print capital like this, from nothing? Of course, the public must pay it back with huge interest so these criminals are charging the American people interest on their own capital when money is merely only the “means of exchange”! This is CRIMINALITY at the HIGHEST DEGREE and worth a Revolution! The FED issues currency from nothing and has no Gold backing whatsoever! Thus it is not even worth the paper it is printed on.

The US government is not printing the money, the FED is, remember this. Mr. Bush and the Treasury officials are to pay back the loans to the FED and with HUGE interest. Income tax used to be non-existent at one time before the First World War because it is an un-apportioned tax. A tax of even one penny on someone’s labour is called “tyrannical” and worth another Revolution! The FED caused the Depression by printing money like crazy and the hole they created was so huge and couldn’t be filled by sales taxes. After the Depression, they understood what they had to do and that was to fill this hole up by issuing income tax! However, now even income tax cannot fill the hole they have created. In the 1980’s they decided that they had to destroy the Real Estate market by increasing interests rates to very high levels. This caused the Housing Bubble to collapse quickly. But the “illuminists” salvaged the dollar because the American people luckily had some savings – outside of their mortgages. That time has now passed. In the 1980’s, the American people were not so highly leveraged in their mortgages, so the bankers were able to increase mortgage interest rates up to over 30% to help the dollar. But now with outsourcing increasing and production decreasing, how can the economy ever recover when inflation continues to increase by an average actual 11% or more per year? On the news they tell us something ridiculous like 2-4% inflation and they never discuss money and credit in reality! Simply put, if you do this long enough – that is printing money from nothing, inflation will become like “pushing on string” and that means, eventually you cannot stimulate any growth and deflation and depression will follow because the economy will become washed in dollars.

These men are evil crooks and they are stealing our purchasing power and if you so wish to defend them than why not just do yourself big favours and start using Monopoly money? You do not even know how much money and credit the FED is issuing each year; yet you claim to know something of their net worth. The FED stopped publishing “M3” last April and I am one of the few people (in the world) who know the “M3” estimate. The rough estimate is 150 X “M2” but I have contacts and can get a number that is much more accurate. Do you know what “M3” is? If not, I advise you to go and find out why it is no longer being published. I cannot ait to hear what their great excuse is for that one. If you think the FED doesn’t make that much money that why don’t we all just go prove it by having an audit performed? David Rockefeller is after all, only worth about 10-30 trillion. I wish you the very best of luck though.

The average household per capita savings in America is (–$10,500) and America is going to have a terrible Depression in a few years time. The FED cannot stop this Depression by increasing interests rates because it will collapse the Real Estate markets and this will collapse the dollar. Why? Because most Americans are living off refinancing their homes for their own basic consumption and the bubble has already begun to burst in Real Estate and so now you know why the FED could only raise the interest’s rates very carefully on Real Estate in the past few months. So there is no turning back now and there is no way out for them. But now you have to decide if you want to pick up the brunt of the bill, or not?

The most ludicrous statement to make is that the International Bankers have helped anyone. Gold is Money – it is a Fundamental. The paper is not a fundamental! At one time the paper was only the receipt for Gold coins. Now your same receipt is not only carrying a value of about 4 pennies but your receipt is worthless because it is no longer redeemable in GOLD! So your day’s worth of reading sources are lying to you. They tell you that the markets are stable and that International Bankers have done good things for us all. What they do is only good for them and they have no loyalty to any nation. They enslave nations and if you want to know why the 3’rd world nations are now ALL buying Gold and taking it home and burying it – with their guns, then may be you need to live through a really bad day to find out? The experts in the papers and on TV are either liars, or just plain dumb. Sorry to be vulgar here, but it is a known fact where I am and one that you best be going out and finding out for yourself. Anyone younger than 70 years is too young to know the markets today and not many bankers (alive today) have any clue about it – except for the criminals who do know it very well. I am far younger than 70 years but I do know this claim for very good reason and as such, I have made a fortune based upon what I do know. And I also know that you are not working for the bad guys and just have an opinion but you seem confused and this it is really not your fault. Don’t depend on Trump and others to tell you the real reasons why they sold their Gold. They are not often selling it, but shorting it and they are also being compensated by the US government and guess which people have to pay them all back in the end?

Cinosamitna....I gave you a WATS. Great post. I think the best since this thread started!

You have voted Cinosamitna for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
Heh...Once last month & once this month so far...Before that, almost never...Perhaps I should slow down again.

Thank you for pointing out your having experience in financial matters & providing details that us "non-financers" have to learn the hard way. Those of us without that background have to struggle to find out even the basics of the info we post & having posts from some "insiders" is always welcome.

This is a great thread, and something Ive known for a very short time, however, in as much as the facts are what they are, what is one to do about it?

Especially if those who are most vulnerable are also those who don't have the means by which to affect a change? Voting Congress out of office? Revolution?
Dig for gold?

I mean seriously, the average 'joe' has absolutely little if no recourse.

For those who have "saved for a rainy day", those savings are only as good as the value of the FIAT dollar anyway, so in essence (and correct me if i'm wrong), the only saving (pardon the pun) grace would have been those who HAVE ALREADY invested in gold, the others, are SOL?


AB1

Originally posted by alphabetaone
I mean seriously, the average 'joe' has absolutely little if no recourse.

Short of a violent revolution, the only recourse for the "little guy" anymore would be to gather into a group of millions (Over 290 million population in the US!), march on Washington D.C. & yell out, "You are supposed to be our employees! Your job performance sucks! You're all fired!


Good luck at organizing it all...

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Short of a violent revolution, the only recourse for the "little guy" anymore would be to gather into a group of millions (Over 290 million population in the US!), march on Washington D.C. & yell out, "You are supposed to be our employees! Your job performance sucks! You're all fired!

Good luck at organizing it all...

So, really, youre saying essentially the same as I am, that there is no recourse?

Sometimes a violent revolution is necessary, sometimes not..I dont advocate one way OR the other..what I DO know, is that eventually, just like the little kid that gets kicked down once too often, he WILL fight back. I wonder if just stating as much makes me a "terrorist mindset"... but ack, thats a whole other thread!

AB1

So, really, youre saying essentially the same as I am, that there is no recourse?

It's tough. These Illuminati or international banking Cabals...whatever you want to call them, have so much money and power, it would be impossible for any of us to go against them. Look what happened to JFK when he attempted to rock the Illuminati boat......

Our whole government needs to be revamped. Keep the good, get rid of the bad (good luck telling them apart) and start back with a government by the people for the people again and actually use the Constitution as it was meant to be.

A revolution would be cool...but unfortunately, most of us have jobs and need to keep our roofs over our heads and our family's heads, etc......and college kids aren't like they used to be in the 60's and 70's.....

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy


A revolution would be cool...but unfortunately, most of us have jobs and need to keep our roofs over our heads and our family's heads, etc......and college kids aren't like they used to be in the 60's and 70's.....

Well, Excitable (and PLEASE dont take this as negative, because it is certainly not intended that way), but to say that unfortunately most of us "have our jobs" and "NEED to keep roofs over our heads and our family's" is almost counter-intuitive to your original topic isnt it?

I mean, to ask "when is something to going to be done about it?" as a part of your topic and in the next breath imply "as long as it isnt ME who does anything about it", makes this all somewhat of an exercise in academics, doesnt it?

If that's the intent, then I guess my question is stupid lol


AB1

Edited for Typo

[edit on 1-10-2006 by alphabetaone]

Well, Excitable (and PLEASE dont take this as negative, because it is certainly not intended that way), but to say that unfortunately most of us "have our jobs" and "NEED to keep roofs over our heads and our family's" is almost counter-intuitive to your original topic isnt it?

I mean, to ask "when is something to going to be done about it?" as a part of your topic and in the next breath imply "as long as it isnt ME who does anything about it", makes this all somewhat of an exercise in academics, doesnt it?

Okay AlphaBetaOne....I'll play. I'm being realistic. Because I have a wife and 2 kids and a mortgage and bills, etc....there is a limit to what I am capable of doing. I am not a politican, so I can't help in that way. If there was a candidate to come along who honestly wanted to bring us back to a government by the people and for the people and actually use the Constitution the way it was meant, I would vote for him/her in a heartbeat. I would even work in my spare time on their campaign and contribute money to it. But of course, I have trouble trusting any politician.

If there was a protest happening somewhere near where I live on a weekend, I'd be happy to take part. Sometimes being an adult sucks, but what can I do? If I was young and had no responsibilities and was living at home....I'd go anywhere and get involved in whatever I had to to make changes. I don't have that luxury today. And...unfortunately, most of our young people that could get together in such a way couldn't be bothered...they're too busy with thier video games, pot and beer. Too busy with their little worlds to care about the big picture.

Does that help you AB1? My family comes first.......

[edit on 1-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Does that help you AB1? My family comes first.......

[edit on 1-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Help me? No...I wasnt asking for help..only making an observation about the posture and breadth of what could be done

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Keep the good, get rid of the bad (good luck telling them apart)

Yep, the best place to start is with the Constitution. The two biggest mistakes that Government made that got us on the current path is:
1-The Constitution gives Government the authority to appropriate Public Lands to build fortifications (provide for the commono defense) & "other needful buildings" (which would include utility services, roads, etc). But the Government made the mistake of turning those Lands over to the Corporations for such development instead of doing the developing themselves. In short, the Government provided Public Lands to Private Corps when they had no right to do it.
2-Giving the Corps "person status" is what allows the Corps the ability to influence Government & even VOTE. The US Founding Forefathers already knew that this would be a serious danger to the US & wrote the Constitution to limit what the Government could do. In fact, it was the English Merchant Charters in their time is what led them to revolt (after they Redressed Grievences with England); Remember the Boston Tea Party? That was as much an act against the greed of the English Corps in their time as it was for getting unfairly taxed. So they wrote the Constitution with the idea of making the Government control the Corps, not the Corps controlling the Government.
The biggest mistake in modern times definitely has to be the Federal Reserve Act. By looking at the members of the Fed Res cartel, you may notice that most of them (lamost all of them) are foreign banking! In essence, The Fed Res Act was the Government selling us all into slavery...Because the banks own all the property, they own the major influence over how Corps handle their money & they've put us all (especially the Government) into insolvable debt. Verbal semantics aside, it's nothing less than slavery.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Sometimes a violent revolution is necessary, sometimes not..I dont advocate one way OR the other..

I don't like the idea of solving problems with violence either, but you're right about one thing...Sometimes it's the only recourse left...That's what the "War of Indepence" was all about in the first place. My suggestion above, about gathering into a group of millions to get them fired from their jobs, is the only peaceful method still available.

Ahh yes. The Constitution. That thing our current POTUS referred to as "a g-d piece of paper".

And that's about all you need to know about that.

Here is a link where you can view a most excellent class on the Constitution taught by Mike Badnarik, the 2004 Libertarian presidential candidate-

Constitution Class taught by Michael Badnarik

It'll take several hours to view the whole thing. It's in 7 different sessions, along the left side of the page, each lasting about an hour. if you've got Windows Media Player, they'll fire right up when you click on the link.

Free stuff here, folks. And if it cost a considerable amount of money, it would be worth every penny. In my opinion.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The $750 Billion you mention (if that number is accurate since you refuse to give sources because you feel you don't have to).

"In 2005, there were roughly $750 Billion dollars in circulation."

The $750B the poster is referring to is the amount of Federal Reserve Notes (paper money) in circulation. It's now more than $900 billion in circulation. Much of the money are just numbers on computers. The money supply is $41 trillion through the ponzi scheme of fractional reserve banking (loans, credits).






[edit on 3-10-2006 by tazadar]

You have voted MidnightDStroyer for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Great work on this thread Midnight. keep up the good work!!

The money supply is $41 trillion through the ponzi scheme of fractional reserve banking (loans, credits).

That sounds more like it. And the Illuminati control most of that $41 trillion...probably 90% of it. So many of the world's problems could be fixed just by getting rid of the FED! So much hunger would go away, so much disease, so much war, so much corruption in governments all over the world, so much human slavery, etc. etc. etc.....

There is information out there on how this whole con game could be fixed.....it's a matter of getting it done. I found a great book at a Border's bookstore. A huge book with a way to turn this around. It was only $20 and I didn't buy it. I should....but what am I going to do with the information?

We need a strong third party in the US that can really make something happen and get some people elected....and Ralph Nader needs to give it up.....because all he does is help the Republicans.....

We need in the US, someone with JFK's charisma and courage (and money behind him) to go for it and take care of what needs to be taken care of. This Fascist government we have now with 2 faces (Democrat and Republican) is never going to change the Status Quo......something drastic needs to happen!!

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Alright so maybe I lied, maybe I do want to argue...

Yes, the $750 Billion in circulation I was referring to only refers to paper money, as "in circulation" would imply.

But this paper money is the only money that the fed makes interest on. This is the only money that the fed lends out.

The fed is the only place where money is created out of nothing, the rest of banks lend out money that they own, borrow from individuals, borrow from other banks, or borrow from the fed(as a last resort, since banks can typically get better interest rates by borrowing from individuals or other banks).

If all of you want to believe that there is an international conspiracy that controls every single banking system in the world based on 0 evidence, I'm not going to stop you. But, you shouldn't be surprised when you fail in your crusade to convince others. You will find that the only ones you can convince are those people who are looking for conspiracies and will accept some dudes word on the internet more readily than the word of our government.

Certainly, there are cases of government conspiracies, crooked politicians, etc. But for the most part, these are relatively limited in scope. If the fed isn't paying its earnings to the federal government, as they report on their website, then there would be many people in our treasury department and in our government who would know. No matter how cynical you are, some of them are honest. A conspiracy of the scale you seem to think exists across every country in the world would have been discovered and stopped a long time ago.

And before you claim it has been discovered, just not stopped: When I mean discovered, I mean that there would be meaningful verifiable evidence of its existence.

I am a libertarian in most regards, and would love for our government to be a fraction of the size and not charge income taxes. But this has nothing to do with income taxes, if anything the fed reduces our income taxes, because it pays our government ~30 Billion a year, all of its profits.

Since when is "Gold is money" fundamental. Money is whatever a group of people decides to use as a means to exchange value. Money is a human invention.

Gold only has value because PEOPLE ascribe value to it. If humans didn't exist, gold would be worthless. The whole idea of worth is a human idea. So if a large group of people decide that a piece of paper with a seal on it is worth something... then it is. No matter what you think about fiat, my fiat dollars are currently buying me lots of stuff and clearly are worth something.

Regardless of your currency, inflation and deflation can occur. Recessions occur. BANKS WOULD STILL CHARGE YOU INTEREST TO BORROW MONEY UNDER A GOLD STANDARD. At least with a fiat system, you can attempt to control the monetary system, through all of the various tools that the federal reserve has.

No one forces you to support the federal reserve. If you want to, never use a dollar bill again. I don't care. You may begin to appreciate how useful a central monetary system is.

Also, I am very happy that the fed is independently run and not under the control of congress. That is a good thing. You don't want congress trying to legislate interest rate changes

If all of you want to believe that there is an international conspiracy that controls every single banking system in the world based on 0 evidence, I'm not going to stop you. But, you shouldn't be surprised when you fail in your crusade to convince others. You will find that the only ones you can convince are those people who are looking for conspiracies and will accept some dudes word on the internet more readily than the word of our government.

Believe whatever you want Jefe....you are wrong. There has been plenty of evidence submitted on this thread. Plenty from legitimate sources. And there is much more out there. You can live in denial. That is your choice. But don't come in here and preach that I don't know what I'm talking about. You haven't supplied a single source or a single word other than what has come out of your own mouth. What makes YOU an authority on this? And what makes you think that the information provided by our government and by the FED itself would be accurate information? That is like believing that the Mafia keeps accurate books and pays all its income taxes. Please.....wake up and DENY IGNORANCE.

If you want to take the opposite side of this thread...that is fine, but back it up with some sources and not government sources....because it's no mystery that the government is full of crap!

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."
Lord Acton

"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. ... This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard."
Alan Greenspan

"The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities states and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses generally referred to as 'international bankers.' This little coterie... run our government for their own selfish ends. It operates under cover of a self-created screen...[and] seizes...our executive officers... legislative bodies... schools... courts... newspapers and every agency created for the public protection."
John F. Hylan

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance."
James Madison

"The few who could understand the system will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests."
John Sherman

Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.
Mayer Rothschild

Yep. Nothing to see here. Move along. All is well.