The Catholic Church practices symbolic cannibalism

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant

As far as the gruesome figure of Christ on the Cross, well, that's the way he died. It was customary for Rome to punish "criminals" by hanging them on a Cross. Criminals would be tied to a cross and exposed to the elements. Much like a pillory stock, criminals would be exposed to endure the ridicule and torment of passersby. Christ, on the other hand, was nailed to cross and, ultimately, had his side pierced by a centurions lance. This occurred to fulfill ancient Jewish prophecy in regards to the Messiah. Two thousand years later, the Crucifix is still displayed by the Church as a reminder of Christ's ultimate sacrifice and it is venerated -- not adored.

Of course, if you choose to believe that the Catholic Church is Satan's Grand Coven of Vampires and Cannibalistic Ghouls then that's because you have chosen to accept rather than to deny ignorance.

the last thing jesus wants to see when he comes back is a crucifix. wearing a crucifix around your neck to remember christ is like wearing a sniper rifle to remember jfk. there is no need for that.

Sorry to add another post, but this external thread about the same topic is worth a peruse at some point:

www.theologyweb.com...

Cheers.


[edit on 13-5-2006 by d60944]

Actually the symbolic cannibalism was one of the major reasons the native aztec, later mexicans understood and readily adopted christianity.....

they sacrificed to a God.....

Jesus Christ is the sacrifice of God..... also known as the "Lamb of God" because lambs were usually sacrificed to God in the old testament as well as cattle.

XphilesPhan,

Sorry for the off topic post and one liner, but ... Awsome sig!

Where did all of this religious doctrine come from?

Jesus save me from your followers!

By my interpretation of the Universe as I have experienced it, none of it is "of God". I'll give you three guesses why but you'll only need one...

As for sun worship... I fail to see any actual evidence apart from the villification of certain cults contained in the approved books of the church that there is any correlation between the worship of a Sun God and any kind of allegiance to the devil.
(And I note that belief in a Devil smells A LOT like polytheism. I fail to see how one all-powerful God could have an enemy in any belief structure which believes in both absolutes and unerring divine justice.)

Having a sun cult is not devil worship anymore than worshipping the aforementioned fire hyrdrant is devil worship. Frankly I think both the fire hyrdant and the sun are more suitable objects of my praise and affection than most gods in the western tradition.

I see the sun every day. The sun generates measurable, clearly attributable benefits for me every day. The sun is never late, it always does what it's supposed to, and on top of all that it demands neither my time nor my money on the sabbath... you know SUN DAY.

The fire hyrdrant doesn't cost much, it's even closer than the sun, and for the most part it doesn't do much, but if I ever have a bad day (at least a bad day that involves by house catching fire) I know it will be there for me. Unless it rains heavily the day my house catches fire, the fire hydrant will then prove itself far more useful than other gods.
The catch with the fire hyrdrant is that religious services in its honor are often disrupted by dogs marking their territory.

It's a fact that I have yet to see a dog urinate on the alter during communion, and well I guess you can chalk one up for Christ there, but that's about all he has going for him in my humble opinion.


Coming back around to the issue at hand, the cannibalistic side of communion... I'm still holding out to see the problem with it. I happen to think it's silly, and I suppose I could agree with Valhall that it ranks among the many extrascriptural self-aggrandizments that Pontiffs have hidden in Catholic dogma, however as far as what's wrong with the belief itself, in isolation from the underlying politics, I see nothing. I don't even see the "blood libel".

Great, Catholics chow down on human flesh. What's worse, they murder innocent soda-crackers, or in some particularly well-to-do congregations, innocent loaves of bread, to obtain that flesh... um wait, that's not murder, at least not until PETA gets into vegitable rights.

The greivances I see here aren't really about cannibalism- that's just a hot-button word that unites the various greivances. There's the control issue. There's the sacrifice versus commemoration issue. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple.

Getting down to where the Savior meets the gullet though, I just don't see a universal/secular problem with the cannibalistic aspect of communion, beyond the obvious fact that every Catholic knows that if he goes and gets his stomach pumped after communion, they're not going to find human flesh in his stomach, which I suppose is some seriously impressive cognitive dissonance.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Actually the symbolic cannibalism was one of the major reasons the native aztec, later mexicans understood and readily adopted christianity.....

they sacrificed to a God.....

Jesus Christ is the sacrifice of God..... also known as the "Lamb of God" because lambs were usually sacrificed to God in the old testament as well as cattle.

the aztec god is the sun god. the same one i just mentioned that was in egypt whos god was also the sun god. its the same one china follows. the same one the roman catholic church follows its the same one the mainstream religions follow when they worship on sunday its the same one as its ever been. its the same god...nimrod from babylon. lucifer himeslf. and he has been changing with the times. and he will be the antichrist.

if you can understand this city babylon you will understand the root from where all of this comes from. freemasons, roman catholic church (any religion), illuminatii, whatever you want stems from this sun god. the sun is all thru the RCC and it is connected to everything that is a lie. (even mary is nimrods wife) its all a deception that been going on for thousands of years. babylon was the old world order that didnt succeed. the new world order has been in the works since babylon was taken care of. this new world order will be the new babylon.

sorry i got off topic but my point is that the aztecs worshiped the same god that is now the god of the catholic church. (you can find the same symoblogy with both beliefs.) this god is the same one that is running this global economy we have and the global buying and selling of goods. hes the reason you see everything in this materialistic world. its him, the antichrist. hes on the move so might as well get ready.

the deception is pretty hard core and has been going on for thousands of years. it will be extremely hard to see truth...but there is one way. its in a book whose author is not from this world. that book is pretty hard core also and has more power than most people give credit.

[edit on 13-5-2006 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by AntiHero

Having a sun cult is not devil worship anymore than worshipping the aforementioned fire hyrdrant is devil worship. Frankly I think both the fire hyrdant and the sun are more suitable objects of my praise and affection than most gods in the western tradition.

ill have to dissagree with you on the first part. we are either on one side or the other. but as far as the the fire hydrant and the sun being more suitable objects of praise than most gods in the western tradition, ill have to agree with you. this western religions are part of the antichrist movement. some of them are so close to the teachings of christ that it is calle christianity. rakes people in left and right. but its not the true teachings of christ. the true teachings of christ i want to know everything about. thats where the power is.

I see the sun every day. The sun generates measurable, clearly attributable benefits for me every day. The sun is never late, it always does what it's supposed to, and on top of all that it demands neither my time nor my money on the sabbath... you know SUN DAY.

yeah never late and always does what its suppose to. yeah that sound like him. and he dont even ask you for money because you have already fallen for the one of many lies..he gets the money from the ones who think they are following the true teachings of christ. they think they are doing what will save them plus they pay for it...its genius.....and yeah they do go to chruches on SUNday just like he wants it.

The fire hyrdrant doesn't cost much, it's even closer than the sun, and for the most part it doesn't do much, but if I ever have a bad day (at least a bad day that involves by house catching fire) I know it will be there for me. Unless it rains heavily the day my house catches fire, the fire hydrant will then prove itself far more useful than other gods.
The catch with the fire hyrdrant is that religious services in its honor are often disrupted by dogs marking their territory.

haha thats funny. have you had any proof of any other gods other than the fire hydrant? probabaly not because you dont know who the real one is. you know about him but already have the shield up. been taught a lie and thats like telling someone the letter A is really the letter E. but you only have to take a step in the right direction and things will be revealed to you that will blow you away. the veil of this world will be removed. but you seem driven the other direction. and once a person has used his free will and decided to deny truth, its hard to change a mind.

this is why christ said in Romans 12:2.. be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

It's a fact that I have yet to see a dog urinate on the alter during communion, and well I guess you can chalk one up for Christ there, but that's about all he has going for him in my humble opinion.

yeah christ 1 fire hydrant 0
thats all hes got going for him? hahahahaha






[edit on 13-5-2006 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by Funkydung
the deception is pretty hard core and has been going on for thousands of years. it will be extremely hard to see truth...but there is one way. its in a book whose author is not from this world. that book is pretty hard core also and has more power than most people give credit.

Which book are you talking about?

The entire point about Roman Catholic transubstantiation and communion is a matter of the spirit, not grotesque flesh and blood. It obviates through "bread and wine," at the last supper to extinguish demands for blood sacrifice to appease a God concept. Think of the crying and dying animals at the Jerusalem temple sacrifices, which became a carnival of money changing at heavy exchange rates for shekels to also pay the temple tax. It was a bloodless sacrifice in the bread and wine was it not? Remember also Jesus taught in parables, as well as by listening aptly and commenting upon the consequent allegories.

One does this "in remembrance." It is more like gobbling up the reality of everything spiritual in reverence. It also on the periphery of things recognizes the differing states of spiritual readiness of those who are brought into a living community of those who have faith in Jesus. The nuns taught us, that "the one thing you can be greedy for is grace!" So grace and truth is what it is all about. If you want to call it "cannibalism," I suppose that is so the universal message can reach everyone, including "cannibals," so they can advance spiritually away from such primative attitudes about spiritual reality. The message is to partake of living realities deeply, so also to follow the perfect will of God.

[edit on 14-5-2006 by SkipShipman]

The sacrament of the Eucharist was not invented by Christians.

It was adapted from pagan practices, such as the rites of Dionysius, in which the ideas of symbolic cannibalism (and -- surprise! -- transubstantiation) were already well established.

Those practices, in turn, evolved from even earlier practices in which the cannibalism was not symbolic by any means, but gruesomely literal.

The anthropologist J.G. Frazer outlined the process by which the sacrament evolved. Here are some relevant quotes. For more information see Frazer, J.G., The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic & Religion, London, Macmillan 1922, in particular Ch. 50, "Eating the God".

The flesh and blood of dead men were commonly eaten and drunk to inspire bravery, wisdom or other qualities for which the men themselves were remarkable... When Sir Charles M'Carthy was killed by the Ashantees in 1824, it is said that his head was devoured by the chiefs of the Ashantee army, who hoped by this means to acquire his courage...

It is now easy to understand why a savage should desire to partake of the flesh of an animal or man whom he regards as divine. By eating the body of the god he shares in the god's attributes and powers. And when the god is a corn-god, the corn is his proper body; when he is a vine-god, the juice of the grape is his blood; and so by eating the bread and drinking the wine the worshipper partakes in the real body and blood of his god...

Yet a time comes when reasonable men find it hard to understand how any one in his senses can suppose that by eating bread and drinking wine he consumes the body and blood of a deity. 'When we call corn Ceres and wine Bacchus,' says Cicero, 'we use a common figure of speech; but do you imagine that anybody is so insane as to believe that the thing he feeds upon is a god?'

Cicero's failure of imagination has been echoed many times in this thread.

To students of comparative religion, Dionysius was in many ways a precursor of Jesus, not least in this foreshadowing of Christian ritual in the Bacchic rites. The saviour-deity is quite a common conception; variations on it, such as Osiris and Krishna, exist or have existed all over the world. There is nothing particularly unique about Christianity, except, of course, to Christians.

Originally posted by Funkydung

Having a sun cult is not devil worship anymore than worshipping the aforementioned fire hyrdrant is devil worship.

ill have to dissagree with you on the first part. we are either on one side or the other.

Semantically speaking, that's not actually disagreeing with me. The "one side or the other" defense makes worshipping the fire hydrant tantamount to sun worship, because you're not on the side of what you percieve as the true God.

You see, my point is not that all roads lead to heaven, or being wrong is spiritually innocuous. I'm simply suggesting that given the premises of your belief as I understand them, a man who worships the sun is not necessarily worshipping the devil. He could, in some cases, be worshipping nothing; a god that doesn't exist, just as if he were worshipping the fire hyrdant.

Consider it in this light. I presume you believe that the devil is real and has powers of some nature, though I also presume that you believe his power to be less than and checked by that of God; am I correct?
This means that the devil can show signs (and indeed Revelations says he will). If one has an actual religious experience with the sun, then if we grant the premises of Chritianity as being true then it is likely he is having an experience with the devil.
If a man just arbitrarily worships any given thing, fire hyrdrant, sun, whatever, and has no religious experience, but is simply part of an empty doctrine, then although he is not on the side of the true God, and thus perhaps the property of the devil, that is not to say that he actively worshipped the devil.
I hope the nuance is perceptible here.

haha thats funny

I hope so, I was trying very hard for it to be.

probabaly not because you dont know who the real one is. you know about him but already have the shield up (quote shortened) its hard to change a mind.

It is hard to change a mind. I know. I was born into a Baptist church. After I was taken from it by my parent's divorce, I eventually sought it back out. I gave my life to God. I tortured myself for his sake. He screwed me. I tried to find out why, and I did. You see... it turns out the guy I'd been praying to has been dead for 2000 years, so he's really not in a position to help me.

yeah christ 1 fire hydrant 0
thats all hes got going for him?

Winning is winning, the spread only matters in Vegas. You don't have to grudge the fact that it was close. Just don't bet on Jesus if he goes up against a fire truck... that's a scoreless tie.

Great that Frazier has been mentioned here, since even though I love his works, it is well known to most Sociologists and students of comparative religion that his research was quite shoddy and he often made stuff up. The Golden Bough is a classic though, and the massive unabridged edition is right now in my shelf. Dionysus? Are you joking? Do you honestly think Jesus Christ has anything to do with a wine God (and a minor deity of Rome at that, no really, the Bachich rites used wine, is that your best link?) Your also confusing Dionysus with Heracles (the supposed Saviour of the Greeks and also progeny of Zeus). I really need to ask a question to all the Christ haters and difamers- if Christ was indeed pagan, then :

-Why did the Qumram Essene community have *our* scriptures ? Why did we adopt the Septuagint instead of some pagan book like those used by the priests of Cybele? In fact, why did the Essenes dissapear?

- Why didn't Christ fade like pagan Magi such as Apollonius of Tyana or the sort? Is it perhaps because he truly did rise from the Grave and the news was spread like wildfire throughout the civilized world?

-Why were half the members of the Sanhedrene desserting in favour of promoting his messianic claim? (ie: Paul and Nicodemus for example)

- Why was Jerusalem partly desserted instead of facing off to the Romans if he was a liar?

- If the theology of Christianity was indeed paganism, then why did the pagans kill Christians? The Romans attempted to wipe us out 8 times (Tiberius, Nero, Caligula, Aurelius, Domitian, Diocletian,Claudius,and Titus all committed atrocities against us), one million people died in the Colloseum alone. If Jesus Christ was another magi ala' Zoroaster or so forth, then why the hatred, the blood libels, the genocide. Wouldn't they hug us and go "how's it going fellow Zeus follower" and go back to normal instead of putting the empire in civil war and decrepitude in favour of killing us? Why the abnormal vicious uncontrolled hatred if we were their "little bros"? I suggest reading any book on martyrs for you to see what we had to put up.

and so forth. Please. Don't crack me up, it's truly ridiculous that Jesus Christ is being compared to Dionysus, Hercules, and other deities of paganism. Then again Paul was confused for a God in Greece if you read the gospels (ie: Jupiter and Mercurius, after a miracle he performed).

[edit on 14-5-2006 by Nakash]

Cannibalism:

1 : the usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being
2 : the eating of the flesh of an animal by another animal of the same kind

I'll just add this wee little point regarding the term cannibalism.

The dogma of transubustantiation is that the consecrated bread and wine are his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity, the key being "with his soul and divinity".

It is no longer the same species.

Originally posted by Nakash
HE'S A TROLL! Anybody who starts a thread with a blood libel
against an opposing religion is precisely that.

OMG. I agree with Nakash on something. Somebody ... quick ...
mark the calendar. Hey .. if Nakash and I can agree on something
(which I thought would never happen) then there IS a chance for
world peace afterall (Which is something else that I don't think will
ever happen).

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Remember NOT LITERAL but SYMBOLIC!!!

Seraphim. Nowhere in any of the scriptural quotes you listed
did Christ say he was speaking symbolically or metaphorically.
Nowhere. It is all "AMEN AMEN" (AKA - I REALLY MEAN THIS).

www.ewtn.com...

For the last time ... The Catholic Church believes that the Eucharist
IS the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. They Catholic
Church DOES NOT believe it is a symbol in the RCC.

It DOES believe that it is a just symbol in all other churches.

[edit on 5/14/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Valhall
The requirement of it and it being paramount to a Catholic believer's salvation is the ONLY dogma of the RCC concerning this ritual that I take passionate issue with.

Well, then you can sit back and relax. Because the Roman Catholic Church
does NOT say that the only people 'saved' are those who are Roman Catholic
and only those Catholics who go to Holy Communion. Perhaps you can find
it in prevaticanII documents, but today's Catechism doesn't say that.

Catholics are required to go to Confession and Communion once a year
(Lent/Easter). If they don't, then they are just outside of communion
with the church and can't receive communion until they get to confession.
That's it. We aren't hell bound .. and we aren't taught that we are hellbound
... if we miss communion at Easter time.

RCC becomes very selective in the scriptures they decide to
teach their followers as literal.

Actually, it rather looks like the fundamentalists do that. John 6 is
very specific. Christ says Amen Amen ... he doesn't say this is a
symbol or metaphore. And when people and disiples walk away
saying that the teaching is too hard and they are disgusted with
Christ saying that they have to eat Him... he doesn't correct their
'misconceptions' by saying it is all symbolic.

if you are going to take this literally then if you eat a cracker
that is the flesh of Christ you won't ever die - IN THE FLESH....because
you can't say he was speaking spiritually about not dying and then
ignore the fact he says he is speaking spiritually about what his
flesh represents!

Cracker cracker cracker.
You are welcome to your interpretation. However,
you are adding to Christ's words. He was very specific.
www.ewtn.com...

He gave the command, and then he gave the vehicle in which His
command was to be carried out - at the Last Supper when he told
his Apostles 'THIS is my body' and to do 'this' in rememberance
of Him - to repeat the last supper and His body would be present
in the repeating of the last supper as it was at that moment.

So there you have the Eucharist (john 6) and the ritual
command (the last supper).

You don't believe it? That's fine. Just like you, I don't care
what people chose to believe or not believe in. That's their
choice. However, the Eucharist being from Christ is very
clear to me. Sorry it isn't for you.


[edit on 5/14/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Omniscient
scientific experiments have "proven" transubstantiation to be true

There have been Eucharistic Miracles throughout the 2,000 years of
Christiandom. This is some info on the best known Eucharistic Miracle.
www.therealpresence.org...

The miracles usually, but not always, happen when the priest who is
presiding over the mass doubts the Real Presence of Christ in the
Eucharist. Obviously it doesn't happen every time a priest doubts,
or else there'd be tons of miracles. But sometimes God makes a
miracle ... don't ask me why .. ask Him.

I have been to Betania Venezuela. We saw a film on the Eucharistic
Miracle that happened there. It was very interesting. A person was
shooting a home movie when the 'miracle' happened (don't know if
it has been 'approved' by the church or not so I'm putting the word
miracle in quotes). When we went to Betania we went to the
convent that the Eucharist is housed in and saw it.
It was behind a pane of glass. About 1/4 of it was pink with fresh
looking blood. This was a few years after the 'miracle' happened.
It was still fresh looking.

biblia.com...

NOT all reports of eucharistic miracles are real. I think (not sure)
that the recent one in Korea has been determined by the Church
to be a fake.



[edit on 5/14/2006 by FlyersFan]

Consider it in this light. I presume you believe that the devil is real and has powers of some nature, though I also presume that you believe his power to be less than and checked by that of God; am I correct?

correct

This means that the devil can show signs (and indeed Revelations says he will). If one has an actual religious experience with the sun, then if we grant the premises of Chritianity as being true then it is likely he is having an experience with the devil.

either with the devil himself or the lie that is being held in front of you. the sun makes life flourish (which was created by his father)and thats what he wants to do but cant so he takes that sun mark and hides behind it and destroys life because of the jealousy. actually he would love to create life but only the son can do that. too bad so sad

If a man just arbitrarily worships any given thing, fire hyrdrant, sun, whatever, and has no religious experience, but is simply part of an empty doctrine, then although he is not on the side of the true God, and thus perhaps the property of the devil, that is not to say that he actively worshipped the devil.
I hope the nuance is perceptible here.

yes. if a man worships idols created by human hands or is simply part of an empty doctrine that person is the property of the devil. we are ALL born into sin and therefore property of lucifer. this is why christ came to this planet. this is why he gave us information regarding a way out. lucifer is not to be played with. he can and will control your mind very easily. just look around you.

haha thats funny
I hope so, I was trying very hard for it to be.

well it was funny

probabaly not because you dont know who the real one is. you know about him but already have the shield up (quote shortened) its hard to change a mind.

It is hard to change a mind. I know. I was born into a Baptist church. After I was taken from it by my parent's divorce, I eventually sought it back out. I gave my life to God. I tortured myself for his sake. He screwed me. I tried to find out why, and I did. You see... it turns out the guy I'd been praying to has been dead for 2000 years, so he's really not in a position to help me.

baptist. another main stream religion that worships on SUNday. sorry about your parents divorce but that might have been just a way to snag you and your family around the neck. im glad to hear you sought it back and went in search for christ. but the problem is that you tortured yourself for his sake? no you have it backwards..he was tortured for your sake. i know that sounds a little christianE, but thats exactly what happened. the religious movement of his time tortured him and killed him because he was teaching that he was not from this world and had powers beyond our comprehension to prove it. the manmade religions were threatened and really probably scared of christ. they were caught in the lie that came from babylon...thru egypt...and to them...they did not know the truth.

and christ is not dead. his flesh that he walked around in is long gone but the spirit that was in him ascended into the cosmos. even tho he is there now preparing a place for the ones who find truth, he is very capable of helping us. seek the truth.

yeah christ 1 fire hydrant 0
thats all hes got going for him?
Winning is winning, the spread only matters in Vegas. You don't have to grudge the fact that it was close. Just don't bet on Jesus if he goes up against a fire truck... that's a scoreless tie.

another funny hahaha



what does all of that have to do with the rcc practicing cannibalism? well back to the Eucharist cakes. they are the symbol of the sun. and well the sun represents lucifer and well we know where that leads. do i need to go thru the sun symbol history again?

The round 'cakes' were used in pagan worship in Egypt, where in 1854, an ancient temple in Egypt was discovered with inscriptions showing round cakes on an altar. Above the altar is a large image of the SUN. Near Babain, Egypt is a temple with the sun symbol above its altar with two priests shown worshipping.
In Peru (South America), this same image is worshipped. Even the Israelites, when they fell into Baal worship, set sun-images above their altars. The shape of the Catholic 'host' is influenced by sun-worship. Catholicism is a mixture of paganism, Judaism and Christianity. It is not Biblical and is not of God."

[edit on 14-5-2006 by Funkydung]

Hi point I'm with you on this one, I was brought up in a very strict Catholic family and was totally brainwashd by it till I saw the light when I was around 15 years old. The whole act of consuming the flesh and blood of Christ is a canniblistic ritual and has nothing to do with animal sacrifice or anything else. Why do people engage in cannibalism, well its to consume the energy of that person, and to empower the the eater of flesh is that not what some murderers do. Maybe Christ was saying I am the son of God, consume my flesh so you in turn will become powerful. If this was the real meaning I dont see why it should be a problem for the Church or anyone else, its just the placebo effect is it not.

Since posting this topic a couple of days ago, I have been accused of being a troll (my dictionary describes a troll as a supernatural being in Scandinavian mythology and folklore) O.k. whatever.
I have had one overly emotional member throw a literary tantrum laced with childish personal attacks in a U2U. (I hope you've composed yourself by the way)
And desperate attempts by another to have the thread moved.

All this indicates to me is that I have touched apon a valid topic that warrants deeper investigation. There are many such topics in all fields of interest that provoke venom and hatred from the narrow minded who attempt to shut down or divert any discussion that threatens their personal entrenched views.

To those that have contributed constructively, it has been interesting to read your thoughts thus far.

Just to clarify my position concerning Jesus. I hold the spiritual being that was and still is Jesus Christ in the highest regard, to say the very least.
The Catholic Church has corrupted His teachings to suit its own ends.
It has commited much destruction, violence and evil with its unsanctioned use of His good name.
The symbolic cannibalism the church practices today is a relatively minor offence when compared with some of its horrendous deeds of the past.

[edit on 15-5-2006 by point]