If US Attacks Iran, Iran Attacks Israel

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Sorry but start with overthrowing the US government and the Israëli government and I'm sure the iranian ``problem`` will solve by himself.

If there were not a United States or any other nation that believes in freedom and peace (England is included) we would have a world without any true freedom and certainly no peace.

I'm an American by birthright, my 3rd cousin was Lyndon B. Johnson (Former President of the U.S.) A long, long distant and related kin folk was DonalBain of Mcbeth fame (Former king of scottland) and I also have indian (Cherokee) blood running through my veins. I do believe the U.S. Government is corrupt in certain places, but I also believe that as Fellow Humans - they have values and morals which thrive on protecting innocent people from the Madmen of the world.

It's because of our stance of protecting freedom that we are so hated in the world. We are feared because we bring hope to those who lost hope long ago.

Explaining Human Rights to these guys will be similar to teaching Chimps Rocket Science. GOOD LUCK!

Bain:

I tend to have the view of this Iran as Germany during the reign of Hitler.

Based on what? Your own historical studies of the Middle East? Tv? What?

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Explaining Human Rights to these guys will be similar to teaching Chimps Rocket Science. GOOD LUCK!

As I said earlier, the propaganda tactics of a lot of people is deshumanise the ennemy. Here is one good example.

Originally posted by yeehaa
.... Once the first wave of planes/cruise missiles shows up on radar, As far as Iran's concern its the end of them, So they may aswell strike back with everything they have, I'm sure thats been planned for ever since march 2003 if not before, People who know nothing about planing and tactics don't understand what we face when even planing a airstrike on IRAN, consider this 1 fact.

While you are correct that contingencies have been planned and targets selected, you are incorrect as to the response back. Sure Iran would try to launch a counterstrike with but the 1st strikes will take out the priority targets especially command/control centers and networks as well as the big counterstrike weapons. There will be a counterattack, there will be casualties on the U.S. side but not enough to matter in the strategic sense.

We have to hit around 2000 targets we know off, more will present themselves while the operations on going, IRAN only has to hit 1 target, Dinoma reactor, even with unguided rockets, missiles if they threw everything they had it at, they are sure to hit it, Israels finished, every discussion we have had about any operation in regards to Iran, not classified briefings mind you, the outcome was the same, Israel would be hit before we could take down all the targets, The most optimistic time frame was 48hours to neutralise them all.

If one considers what the Nuclear power station in russia did too the surrounding area, consider that isreals reactor is for weapons production its 20~30 times more potent radiation.

I'll have to defer to reactor experts here. I am not sure that it would cause as much damage as Chernobyl assuming that Dimona's reactor is shut down and precautions taken during those tense times, should they come to pass. I think Israel would be pretty stupid to keep it's reactor running full blast during such a scenario.

Plus on top of that Israel would probably be very ticked off, to say the least. Iran's leaders are unstable at times; however they are not stupid. They like to play chess, not poker. Inviting a nuclear response from Israel would basically call their bluff.......and Israel doesn't bluff. The end result of such an Iranian strategy, if you can call it that, would be the massive destruction of a large part of Iran.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

As I said earlier, the propaganda tactics of a lot of people is deshumanise the ennemy. Here is one good example.

I disagree with your statement here - the enemy dehumanized themselves, no one needs to lend a helping hand.

Based on what? Your own historical studies of the Middle East? Tv? What?

Based from my own perspectives - of things the Iranian President has been saying & His refusal to listen to common sense.

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Bain]

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Originally posted by Low Orbit
Explaining Human Rights to these guys will be similar to teaching Chimps Rocket Science. GOOD LUCK!

As I said earlier, the propaganda tactics of a lot of people is deshumanise the ennemy. Here is one good example.

Propaganda is telling the average person that Iran has the capablility to defend itself against an American Attack knowing perfectly well Iran will be crushed.


Propaganda is believing Iran is not backed into a corner and instead the US is.

Propaganda is believing what Iran says that the Hollocaust never happened.

Propaganda is believing that American CIA Agents secretly supports terror throughtout the world and that Iran does not.

Let's let the people decide where the propaganda is that's the democratic approach to it, we can explain that to you in another thread!

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Low Orbit]

Based from my own perspectives - of things the Iranian President has been saying & His refusal to listen to common sense.

Well Mr third cousin of Lyndon B Johnson and part cherokee, what pray tell is the common sense the Iranian President is refusing to listen to.

Propaganda is telling the average person that Iran has the capablility to defend itself against an American Attack knowing perfectly well Iran will be crushed.

Maybe they say this but they won't be able to and those who believe that don't know a lot about military.

Propaganda is believing Iran is not backed into a corner and instead the US is.

The US into a corner? HAHAHA. Well, on one side there is US/Israël/Germany/France and on the other side there is Russia/China/Iran.

Propaganda is believing what Iran says that the Hollocaust never happened.

Sorry but he said that the holocaust was a myth, used to support the atrocities of the Israëli regime and that was bad. On this one I totally agree with him. He didn't say it didn't happen.

Propaganda is believing that American CIA Agents secretly supports terror throughtout the world and that Iran does not.

When it please US to support ``terror``, they support it. It's a game of interests, not a game of good/bad.

Let's let the people decide where the propaganda is that's the democratic approach to it, we can explain that to you in another thread!

LOL. And yeah everyone should inform themselves FIRST and then discern what is propaganda and what is not.

Originally posted by AccidentallyOnPurpose

Based from my own perspectives - of things the Iranian President has been saying & His refusal to listen to common sense.

Well Mr third cousin of Lyndon B Johnson and part cherokee, what pray tell is the common sense the Iranian President is refusing to listen to.

Son - if you can't figure that out by yourself.. then i am not wasting my time trying to tell you something that you clearly won't understand.

I also want to step in and say that the United States has supported terrorists in the past and may continue doing so. This is a fact - not one I am proud of, but you do what needs to be done to get the results you need... but it will always come back and bite you on the ass.

[edit on 3-5-2006 by Bain]

China and Russia will not stand with Iran in war, you are dillusional! They understand what that war would be like Iran does not!

I think it's a fairly safe bet that Russia and China aren't going to directly intervene in any conflict with Iran. On the other hand, I think it's also a safe bet that if the US goes into Iran, we will be doing it alone. Nobody in the EU wants to see a nuclear-armed Iran (for that matter neither do Russia or China) - on the other hand, they want a new war in the Persian Gulf even less. The French and Germans are more than happy to put diplomatic and even economic pressure on Iran, but unless they are actually attacked I don't see them participating in any conflict. In fact I feel fairly confident that even the UK will sit this one out.

The only people that think a war with Iran is a good idea are the Likudniks in Jerusalem and in Tel Aviv, and outside their orbit they have little or no influence.

Bain:

It's because of our stance of protecting freedom that we are so hated in the world. We are feared because we bring hope to those who lost hope long ago.

Oh man I really haven't laughed this hard in months. Are you 13 years old?

You protect freedom around the world, huh? And I mean, it's only natural that most people HATE freedom.

HAHAHAHA! Who's freedom were you protecting in Nicaragua? Guatemala? Chile (where you overthrew a democratic government in 1973)? What about Iran in 1953 when you overthew another democratic leader? Vietnam? The Phillipines?

You protect your OWN illusionary freedoms, and more importantly you protect your own CORPORATE interests over the interests of foreign people.

And THAT'S why you're hated.

Oh, and also because you're ignorant of all of that and you think that people hate you for your freedoms, when if you actually sat down and thought about that silly statement you would realize it makes you sound like a fool to say it.

So think about that statement. Ask a grown-up if you have to.

Originally posted by xmotex
I think it's a fairly safe bet that Russia and China aren't going to directly intervene in any conflict with Iran. On the other hand, I think it's also a safe bet that if the US goes into Iran, we will be doing it alone. Nobody in the EU wants to see a nuclear-armed Iran (for that matter neither do Russia or China) - on the other hand, they want a new war in the Persian Gulf even less. The French and Germans are more than happy to put diplomatic and even economic pressure on Iran, but unless they are actually attacked I don't see them participating in any conflict. In fact I feel fairly confident that even the UK will sit this one out.

The only people that think a war with Iran is a good idea are the Likudniks in Jerusalem and in Tel Aviv, and outside their orbit they have little or no influence.

You may be right - but i do see if a war is to occur, that england will be standing beside the U.S. and Israel. It may not be the most popular choice - but there could be no other way.

Alright, let's can the attitude and discuss the topic without attacking others.

This is Iran's only real defense currently. They know the Pentagon and the White how are controlled by AIPAC and PNAC both Zionist organizations who have members with dual US and Israeli citizenship. So this hits home now. The 51st state is now a target. I was actually relieved to hear of this tactic knowing full well the extended standoff it might create. Please , don't claim I said I want anyone killed. The Iranian leader has turned out to be a little more shrewed than anyone expected.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Oh man I really haven't laughed this hard in months. Are you 13 years old?

You protect freedom around the world, huh? And I mean, it's only natural that most people HATE freedom.

HAHAHAHA! Who's freedom were you protecting in Nicaragua? Guatemala? Chile (where you overthrew a democratic government in 1973)? What about Iran in 1953 when you overthew another democratic leader? Vietnam? The Phillipines?

You are the one who acts like an overbearing, spoiled and foolish child - who has no idea what in going on in the world - you believe the lies of those who wish the U.S. was gone and not the true people who we have helped.

By the way, I'm 30 -

The U.S. has made a lot of mistakes but that doesn't mean we do not protect the rights of people around the world. We are also hated because we are a nation of God - moral values that others despise. Moral values, that I will admit are a dying breed in the U.S. and around the world.

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[edit on 3-5-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I still dont think that Iran wants a war right now. Yea they are being loud, but I think they just want people to notice them and notice that they are on their way to becomming competition. I dont think the Iranian president is a dumb man. If he can get this nuclear energy thing up and running, then not only are the Iranian people going to love him, but other countries in the mideast not to mention China and Russia, are going to buddy up with him. He is in a position right now to get what ever he wants....namely money and power for starters. He is standing up to Bush and the UN, and demanding that his country have nuclear power, if he acomplishes this, many over there will see him as a hero. Which will give him another thing he wants.....a really big army. I think Bush is all upset right now, because this man could easily (given time, if he plays his cards right) be our worst nightmare. If they are truely wanting to stand up and be counted among the more powerful countries, it would not be smart to waste all their money and ammo on a war - right now. Later, I am sure, but for now, I would think they would be wanting to wait until they, and others see themselfs as being (at least) equals.

Interesting to note that Britain has been involved with the nation of Israel since its official re-birth as a state. Israel has took on lots of (Arab) countries by its self in the past, and could easily take on Iran in a 'conventional' military battle, of course this does not factor the imapct of the inevitable and sickening suicide bombers, least we not forget that Palestinians live side by side with the Israelis.

I for one wish there to be no fighting, now or in the future. I would like to see Isreali and Muslim living in peace together as brothers and sisters of the human race - isnt that the true underlying motive of religion?

My anti-war speel follows:
A new War will only line the pockets of the oil barons including certain members of the American government - those people will never see the cold brutality of war the true reality of corruption yet they would send our nations youth to fight for their lives. Human lives come with price tags these days - how much do you think your worth?

[edit on 3-5-2006 by freeradical]

[edit on 3-5-2006 by freeradical]

Originally posted by Bain
You are the one who acts like an overbearing, spoiled and foolish child - who has no idea what in going on in the world - you believe the lies of those who wish the U.S. was gone and not the true people who we have helped.

By the way, I'm 30 -

The U.S. has made a lot of mistakes but that doesn't mean we do not protect the rights of people around the world. We are also hated because we are a nation of God - moral values that others despise. Moral values, that I will admit are a dying breed in the U.S. and around the world.

bain, over the course of your posts i have disagreed with you mainly because it sounds like your living in a precapitalistic america. one i wish i was living in, but im not and its obvious if you look around. Im going to ask you a question, in no offensive manner, have you ever been to one of these countries? Have you really seen any thing we have done physically?

If so I would really like to hear in detail what it was like. If not then we are on the exact same boat now. Neither of us is privy to any special information, so we are going to argue perspective here for a moment rather then actual "facts" since such things are in a sesne contradictive of themselves, aka they cant be proved.

Look at our country, look at its main interests, look at its financial ties. Who exactly is this country fighting for. now before you say freedom i want you to think. Think about the billions of dollars corporation have invested in the government. Think about the billions more they have invested in the military. Think about the billions of dollars of profit that can be made. Think about the genocides in Danfur and think about the suffering of african nations which are going through alot more hardship then most the middle east. Think about the genocides in china we hardly even speak about. Think about whos going to benefit ultimately from these wars.

Now tell me, arent you the least bit suspecting of a government, media, and military owned by mostly the same business (since most companies has parent companies, which lead back to about 10 major corporations, who own just about everything in this country). For a moment discard the "facts" and look at common sense. Billions in profit, and a monopoly on oil...or corporations fighting for our rights? these same corporations like dyncorp, caught in human trafficing scandals.

I wish it was about freedom, but our system has been changed on us. Money is what the US stands for now, and has since capitalism rose up in dominance. Your freedoms really mean nothing when it comes to money. Globalization is worth more then your rights, or anyone elses.

Think for a moment why masses of people would fight you for no reason other then they hate your lifestyle. But before you do that, think about the region they live in, and how we have been involved in it. They havent hated america always. They hated us when we came there and started Coups against democractically (sometimes) elected governments and actually installed dictatorships. These dictatorships were considered pro US, but the only thing they had in common with the US was greed. They were willing to sell their peoples rights for money to corporations, is that what it takes to be pro US?