Freemasonry question...

I've heard recently that there are other Lodges beyond the Blue Lodge, these including the Red Lodge and Black Lodge, however ones chance of joining either of these two lodges are greatly limited unless the individual is the son of a Mason and Eastern Star couple, or the son of a Rainbow Girl, Mason couple etc. The longer the lineage, the further you can proceed.

I'm not interested in replies saying "It's BS, I'm a Mason and I've never heard of it." I myself am a Mason and I've never heard of it until recently. What I'm looking for is any real information backing up such claims. I'm interested and curious.

It makes sense if this were the case and if you think about it, why start at a Blue Lodge? Why not a Black, Red, Yellow, Green Lodge etc for various things? I do remember my aunt telling me that my great grandfather and 33rd degree Mason had Masons at his funeral attempting to perform what she called a Black Rite Ritual before my grand parents made them leave at which point they came back later when most had left.

I do think there is a lot more to it and I'd like to know. It's why I joined. I want to learn more, but all the Masons I know really aren't aware. They just eat their fish dinners and talk about sports...

Thanks.

If you have to be born into them then I'm not too sure if there is anything you can do. I suppose you could try seeking out people of importance or people who appear to know what they are talking about. Maybe you can find someone who is a Templar.

But as far as York or Scottish Rite who knows.

Hi ElectricCrow

This isn't really the right forum to ask technical questions about freemasonry, some members and administrators can get quite upset if the topics deviate too far from conspiracy discussions. I would recommend a masonic discussion forum such as this. However I'll have a go and see what happens.

Originally posted by ElectricCrow
I've heard recently that there are other Lodges beyond the Blue Lodge, these including the Red Lodge and Black Lodge,

Blue lodge is a name given to Craft masonry that operates the traditional three degrees, under what is known (technically) in the US as York Rite. Craft lodges that practice the first three degrees of the Scottish Rite are therefore known as 'Red' lodges to distinguish them from the former. This is a different form of Craft masonry and for the most part is irregular. I have never heard of Black lodges in freemasonry - there is no third system of Craft masonry that I am aware of, and if there is it would be so irregular as to be hardly freemasonry at all. I suspect the phrase has been borrowed by over-enthusiastic conspiracy theorists from Satanism, in an attempt to demonstrate a tie-in between that and masonry.

... however ones chance of joining either of these two lodges are greatly limited unless the individual is the son of a Mason and Eastern Star couple, or the son of a Rainbow Girl, Mason couple etc. The longer the lineage, the further you can proceed.

You are correct, but not for the reasons given. Opportunities for joining a 'red' lodge in the US are limited to those in the vicinity of Louisiana, where craft masonry has, in part, developed from Scottish Rite roots. There is much Red masonry in continental Europe, but from the perspective of US freemasonry it is quite irregular. Black masonry, is, as I have already premised, non-existent.

I'm not interested in replies saying "It's BS, I'm a Mason and I've never heard of it."

I agree that kind of reply is not really very instructive, but quite frankly it's entirely legitimate as the concept of Black lodges in freemasonry as, as you put it, BS.

I myself am a Mason and I've never heard of it until recently. What I'm looking for is any real information backing up such claims. I'm interested and curious.

You may have only heard of Black lodges from conspiracy sites, which perhaps you have been visiting recently.

It makes sense if this were the case and if you think about it, why start at a Blue Lodge? Why not a Black, Red, Yellow, Green Lodge etc for various things?

Blue lodges were named for the color of the ceiling in some original lodge rooms, which were painted blue to imitate the sky. Red lodges were so named (I believe) as an opposite to blue, but there might be another reason (such as the color of the aprons). The color reference is a convenience, a 'nickname' if you will. There are not an assortment of lodges all with different color nomenclatures. If you are a regular freemason there is only a blue lodge, which to all intents and purposes is a nickname for Craft freemasonry.

I do remember my aunt telling me that my great grandfather and 33rd degree Mason had Masons at his funeral attempting to perform what she called a Black Rite Ritual before my grand parents made them leave at which point they came back later when most had left.

This sounds unlikely. In the US there is such a thing as a masonic funeral, which I am quite sure some Christians disapprove of, and perhaps might characterize as evil. But that would be their opinion rather than accepted wisdom.

I do think there is a lot more to it and I'd like to know. It's why I joined. I want to learn more...

I hope this has, in some small way, helped you learn something. There is a quite staggering ignorance of the reality of freemasonry 'out there', which is sadly promulgated by foolish individuals who ought to know better but just couldn't be bothered to investiate themselves. The more questions you ask, the more you will learn.

but all the Masons I know really aren't aware. They just eat their fish dinners and talk about sports...

There are many freemasons who are like this. But there are many who are not. The great thing about freemasonry is that it allows for a wide range of interpretations and experiences. Talking about sports can be a great way to bond with someone, but talking about sports exclusively can be pretty boring.

unless the individual is the son of a Mason and Eastern Star couple, or the son of a Rainbow Girl,

I would find this more likely if it was a JD rather than a Rainbow. JD's (at least
when I was a DeMolay) had to have Masonic affiliation like DeMolays did.Rainbows didn't.

Black masonry

Might this be refering to Prince Hall Masonry?

Originally posted by Trinityman

Blue lodge is a name given to Craft masonry that operates the traditional three degrees, under what is known (technically) in the US as York Rite. Craft lodges that practice the first three degrees of the Scottish Rite are therefore known as 'Red' lodges to distinguish them from the former. This is a different form of Craft masonry and for the most part is irregular. I have never heard of Black lodges in freemasonry - there is no third system of Craft masonry that I am aware of, and if there is it would be so irregular as to be hardly freemasonry at all.

Terminology may vary from country to country. In the USA, Royal Arch Masonry is sometimes referred to as "Red Masonry" due to the color scheme of the chapter, just as "Blue Lodges" are called blue because, at least around here, most of them are painted blue.

Also, as you mentioned, there is a tradition of calling French Lodges and their derivitives "Red Lodges", and some in the USA refer to the Lodge of Perfection in the Scottish Rite as "Red Lodges".

As for "Black Lodges", this could possibly refer to the Prince Hall Affiliation, who are predominately African-American.

Originally posted by ElectricCrow
I've heard recently that there are other Lodges beyond the Blue Lodge, these including the Red Lodge and Black Lodge, however ones chance of joining either of these two lodges are greatly limited unless the individual is the son of a Mason and Eastern Star couple, or the son of a Rainbow Girl, Mason couple etc. The longer the lineage, the further you can proceed.

Yes there are other lodges, and these lodges are more known in the African-American lodges. They are basically of the Scottish Rite branch. Ones chances are not limited though. Once you become MM you are free to travel to the red house which starts at the 4th degree, and so on. Some only remain in the blue house (1st 3 degrees) because to maintain membership in each house those dues adds up. Eastern Stars is attached to the blue house (she would have to have a MM vouch for her who is in the blue house in order for her to join). In order for a star to go beyound that (depends on the jurisidiction) she must have a MM vouch for her who is connective with the red house and etc... You can recognize the house a member is apart of. If the the stone behind the square and compasses is blue on his ring, he is apart of the blue house, and etc... Hope that helped some



[edit on 24-4-2006 by ac707]

[edit on 24-4-2006 by ac707]

[edit on 24-4-2006 by ac707]

Originally posted by ElectricCrow
I myself am a Mason and I've never heard of it until recently.

What was your source for this? Another mason? A member of one of the lodges?

Is it possible that its a side group, not recognized by UGLE?


The only group that I am aware of the considers pedigrees, if I recall, is the Knights of Malta, and what they want is documentation that your family seal has been around for minimally 300 years.

Wow are these people like royalty and part of a secret bloodline??

Gee and masons say they are only around for the betterment of us all. The more I find out about you guys the more obvious it becomes to me that you are trying to sheep herd the rest of us.

Is there a gold or a platinum lodge too? How about a diamond lodge and there has to be a Black Lodge especially if we are dealing with the occult right?

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Wow are these people like royalty and part of a secret bloodline??

Gee and masons say they are only around for the betterment of us all. The more I find out about you guys the more obvious it becomes to me that you are trying to sheep herd the rest of us.

Is there a gold or a platinum lodge too? How about a diamond lodge and there has to be a Black Lodge especially if we are dealing with the occult right?

You are misguided. And the more you type the more it shows.
There is no hidden knowledge. These are the same degrees as those on the Scottish Rite side, as a matter of fact it is just that... And who are we trying to "sheep herd"?

Interesting responses and I appreciate them.

Another question if I may,
I don't remember where I heard/read it but I heard somewhere that the 32 degrees of Masonry stem from 360 degrees of enlightenment relating to Egyptian religious practices or something of that nature. Something about 360' or the circumfrance of the sun/Sun God Horus?

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Originally posted by ElectricCrow
Interesting responses and I appreciate them.

Another question if I may,
I don't remember where I heard/read it but I heard somewhere that the 32 degrees of Masonry stem from 360 degrees of enlightenment relating to Egyptian religious practices or something of that nature. Something about 360' or the circumfrance of the sun/Sun God Horus?

Circles consist of 360 degrees, but they have nothing to do with the degrees of Masonry. The Scottish Rite of Masonry consists of 33 degrees, which was actually a result of combining the French Rite of Perfection of 25 degrees with 8 degrees from a couple of lesser known Rites, such as the Philosophical Rite.

Egyptian symbolism was very important in two older continental Rites: the Oriental Rite of Memphis and the Egyptian Rite of Mitzraim, as well as Cagliostro's still older Egyptian Rite of Elected Cohens. Memphis consisted of 97 degrees, Mitzraim consisted of 90 degrees, and Cagliostro's Rite consisted of (if memory serves) 7 degrees. All of these Rites are now defunct in practice, and in America, fall under the jurisdiction of the Grand College of Rites.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Wow are these people like royalty and part of a secret bloodline??

Gee and masons say they are only around for the betterment of us all. The more I find out about you guys the more obvious it becomes to me that you are trying to sheep herd the rest of us.

Is there a gold or a platinum lodge too? How about a diamond lodge and there has to be a Black Lodge especially if we are dealing with the occult right?

I don't think you have been listening. The colors attributed to lodge names are just nicknames. Like has been said three or four times already in this thread, Craft Masonry is the real name, while "Blue Lodge Masonry" is a nickname because they use a lot of blue coloring in their architecture. "Red Masonry" sounds like cute play on the term "Blue Lodge Masonry." "Black Masonry" is something created for African-Americans. Just because something is black does not mean it is occult. If you wanna talk about witchcraft, blame green because it is the color of plants and might be tied to wiccan nature worship.

On the same note, I assure you that my name really is not Ralph, and I am indeed not a Llama, nor do I have any Wonder.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Circles consist of 360 degrees, but they have nothing to do with the degrees of Masonry. The Scottish Rite of Masonry consists of 33 degrees, which was actually a result of combining the French Rite of Perfection of 25 degrees with 8 degrees from a couple of lesser known Rites, such as the Philosophical Rite.

I've always liked the symbolism of 33 degrees in the Ancient & Accepted Rite (Scottish) as this is the number of years Our Lord spent on this earth.

"Black Lodges" is not the term for Prince Hall F&AM recognized by GLE formally and UGLE currently.

Also not every African American Male who states to be a Freemason is Affiliated with Prince Hall..

Also for the OES or Eastern Star which Dr Morris used to bring the Female counterparts and Female members of a MM family involved within the order bringing them closer together was meant for a select group. For men you do not need to be a bloodlined Male of a Master Mason. Its only meant for the female members who need a source if you will to join since Women are not allowed to become freemasons lawfully.

Black Lodge!

I have only met one mason that knew more about use of the pineal gland than philospohical theory.

Blue lodges yup fish dinners and ice cream drives!

I have yet to see any mason here or masonic forums speak openly about diving deeper than theory.

Assuming this is what you were getting at with black lodge.

So any mason on deck want to discuss taboo..?

Originally posted by thebookling
I have only met one mason that knew more about use of the pineal gland than philospohical theory.

I haven't met any! But I knew one who was an excellent chef once.

What point are you seeking to make here?

Originally posted by African459
"Black Lodges" is not the term for Prince Hall F&AM recognized by GLE formally and UGLE currently.

Also not every African American Male who states to be a Freemason is Affiliated with Prince Hall..

Precisely.


"The Black Lodge" is in reference to the entities of the Klipoth(Hell realms), who oppose the Great White Fraternity of the Superior Spheres of the Tree of Life mentioned by many Esoteric Philosophers; many of them being FreeMasons themselves.

Such as: C.W. Leadbeater, J.D. Buck, Manly P. Hall and a few others.

The term "Black Lodge" has nothing to do with race.

The White Lodge is said to consist of, and be open to all races, colors, creeds, etc.


The modern Gnostic movement recognizes the political Zionist movement to be the representatives of the Black Lodge here on the physical plane.

[edit on 30-4-2006 by Tamahu]

Though it's a shame that www.mysticweb.org... comes up first in a Google search for "Gnostic movement", instead of www.gnosticteachings.org... ; the former being a group of frauds(at least their leaders anyway), and the latter being the true expounders of the Gnostic teachings of Samael Aun Weor.

[edit on 30-4-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by ac707
You are misguided. And the more you type the more it shows.
There is no hidden knowledge. These are the same degrees as those on the Scottish Rite side, as a matter of fact it is just that... And who are we trying to "sheep herd"?

How can I not be misguided about freemasonry when I am not a member?
How can I not know about Freemasonry when you guys won't tell us what the big secret is or why?

Then there is all the weird activities and actions and things to memorize... why? Just for the sake of it?

In terms of sheep herding it looks like the rest of us cause you guys covet money and power and in order to get it you have to herd everyone else. Isn't that the way to achieving such ends? I know it has been all though history.

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_LlamaI don't think you have been listening. The colors attributed to lodge names are just nicknames. Like has been said three or four times already in this thread, Craft Masonry is the real name, while "Blue Lodge Masonry" is a nickname because they use a lot of blue coloring in their architecture. "Red Masonry" sounds like cute play on the term "Blue Lodge Masonry." "Black Masonry" is something created for African-Americans. Just because something is black does not mean it is occult. If you wanna talk about witchcraft, blame green because it is the color of plants and might be tied to wiccan nature worship.

On the same note, I assure you that my name really is not Ralph, and I am indeed not a Llama, nor do I have any Wonder.

Uh I'm stupid but is not everything in masonry revolving around symbolism?

Isn't craft related to the term: witchcraft?

The craft of freemasonry and witchcraft have in common the mastery of reality and future do they not? A manipulation of physical reality to suit one's own ends? Sure seems that way to me.