Bosnian Pyramid Update

Originally posted by newtron25

You can't fold your arms and insist on this one, Nygdan.

How many stone spheres have they found????

Hundred of thousands. They're often concretions.

But, to be clear, I'm not saying that they weren't man-made.

admit that nature can form perfectly round stones....a few..maybe even 6 or 7 in any geographical area,

Or perhaps that the people in a region would dig them up and put them in their village, fascinating works of nature that they are?

but the biggest of those is BIG...a couple meters or more across.

I agree, they're pretty spectacular. Are there any tool marks on them? Are they situated such that they sit where they were formed? What are they made up of? What is their internal structure, say from a core, what types of deposits are also in that trench, etc? Lots of great questions come up from those things.

I am currently studying pre-law. I've recently learned that in many criminal cases, if there is clear and convincing evidence (which technically means 75% uncontrovertible) showing something has happened, even though its circumstantial...it can lead to a conviction.

Law courts have a terribly low standard of evidence, compared to science. In law, a 'solid' witness can send a man to death, in science, eyewitness reports are known as 'anecdotes' and aren't evidence.

y crime being committed here is the snuffing of the human spirit by those who would sooner hurl "can't be's" at the question rather than "what if's".

Rather overly credulousness and naivetee crushes the human spirit, but critical though represents perhaps its fullest flowering.

- admit what must be allowed as far as questions.

?

Don't preclude the possibility by stonewalling the process unnecessarily with unidirectional statements.

I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from investigating further, but I would certainly say that we can't do things like demand money for a dig, remove all the dirt on the hill, or even, honestly, say that archaeologists and geologists who aren't interested in the site, based upon the evidence, are 'ossified academics' or 'greedy beaurocrats'.

You goofball!

Maybe thats what we'll start calling these things, the Bosnian Goofballs!

Mysterious carved stone balls found across Bosnia are similar to ones found in Costa Rica.

Those are some of the first things that came to my mind when I saw those Bosnian Goofballs.

They are granit and some of the balls have holes across their surface.

Fascinating.

Geologist Mile Vujačić believes that the Bosnian stone balls were produced naturally by water shaping the rock over a long period

?

Shaped like that? I don't know about that.

Byrd
I'm not seeing a unified structure, here, but rather layers of culture and buildings.

I don't think we can even definitively say that those 'tiles' are infact tiles. They are regular, in so far as they are rectangular, but each one is randomly different. I don't know if we are seeing dirt inbetween, or if there is some sort of cement that hasn't been cleared off enough even.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by newtron25

You can't fold your arms and insist on this one, Nygdan.

How many stone spheres have they found????

Hundred of thousands. They're often concretions.

But, to be clear, I'm not saying that they weren't man-made.

admit that nature can form perfectly round stones....a few..maybe even 6 or 7 in any geographical area,

Or perhaps that the people in a region would dig them up and put them in their village, fascinating works of nature that they are?

but the biggest of those is BIG...a couple meters or more across.

I agree, they're pretty spectacular. Are there any tool marks on them? Are they situated such that they sit where they were formed? What are they made up of? What is their internal structure, say from a core, what types of deposits are also in that trench, etc? Lots of great questions come up from those things.

Yeah, the stone spheres are cool, but I don't see how they are applicable. The ones in Mesoamerica didn't take any great feats of engineering to create, we all probably saw those three guys on the Discovery Channel almost complete one in about 3 days or so, using another rock as a shaper. They also showed that the "alignments" of these spheres didn't correspond to any astronomical stuff, beyond what would be mathematically attributable to chance anyway.

So big whoop. Arrowheads/spearheads from the neolithic hunters that lived in Bosnia would be cooler to me.

Harte

[edit on 6/16/2006 by Harte]

It was likely built by Illyrians, who are most closely related to modern day Albanians. They were once the dominant culture in the Northern Balkans.

It is also worth noting that there are some people in the Balkans who identify themselves as being Egyptian. Their exact lineage is a matter of debate, but some claim to be desendants of Roman era Egyptian soldiers. Maybe this is their influence?


en.wikipedia.org...


en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Hajduk]

Hey all, I'm new here and I just wanted to ask. I haven't seen this question asked yet. But then again, I haven't read through everything.

In reguards to how it was covered in earth. Is there any history of natrual floods back then? If a big flood came throuh, they can usually take mud with them. If a strong enough flood swept through the area and took down a couple of hills on the way, it could have covered the pyramid.

It's just a theory. :/

Hey all, I'm new here and I just wanted to ask. I haven't seen this question asked yet. But then again, I haven't read through everything.

In reguards to how it was covered in earth. Is there any history of natrual floods back then? If a big flood came throuh, they can usually take mud with them. If a strong enough flood swept through the area and took down a couple of hills on the way, it could have covered the pyramid.

It's just a theory. :/

Originally posted by Eteric Rice

In reguards to how it was covered in earth. Is there any history of natrual floods back then? If a big flood came throuh, they can usually take mud with them. If a strong enough flood swept through the area and took down a couple of hills on the way, it could have covered the pyramid.

It's just a theory. :/

Such a flood would need to be extremely catastrophic to cover such high hillsides - we're talking a wall of water hundreds of feet high. There's nowhere such a massive flood could have originated unless you wish to invoke 'Noah's Flood'. Even post-glacial flooding would not have resulted in these hills being covered with water, only the valley floors. Also, it wouldn't leave even amounts of sediments over the entire hill, and any geologist would be able to quickly determine whether it was 'normal' soil or flood sediment. All evidence we have points to natural soil formed from decomposition of vegetation and the break up of natural underlying bedrock.

Wind blown loess is a however a remote possiblity (again though, easily determinable by geologists)


As for the 'stone balls' - surely these are a completely seperate issue? There is nothing to connect them with a hitherto unknown pyramid-building culture in the region. They may be natural. They may be Roman. They may be 20th century (what material are they made of? Has any other archaeology been found in association with them? )

new photos

www.bosnian-pyramid.com...


www.bosnian-pyramid.com...


www.bosnian-pyramid.com...


www.bosnian-pyramid.com...

Originally posted by Hajduk
It was likely built by Illyrians, who are most closely related to modern day Albanians. They were once the dominant culture in the Northern Balkans.

It is also worth noting that there are some people in the Balkans who identify themselves as being Egyptian. Their exact lineage is a matter of debate, but some claim to be desendants of Roman era Egyptian soldiers. Maybe this is their influence?


en.wikipedia.org...


en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 16-6-2006 by Hajduk]

You are kind of mixing Roma (Gypsy) and Roman. If you check your link, you'll find that no mention of Bosnia is made in there, as those groups are very minor in Bosnia. I have never heard that someone claimed in Bosnia that they are Egyptian. Third of population share the same religious beliefs with modern Egyptians and that is where all similarity ends.

Albanians are not only descendents of Illyrian; someone with nick Hajduk should already know that. Dalmats were another Illyrian tribe, and today Dalmatia has its roots in Illyrian, as well Albanians and many other local groups have.


Nice picture Crvekapice.

Originally posted by vietifulJoe

You are kind of mixing Roma (Gypsy) and Roman. If you check your link, you'll find that no mention of Bosnia is made in there, as those groups are very minor in Bosnia. I have never heard that someone claimed in Bosnia that they are Egyptian. Third of population share the same religious beliefs with modern Egyptians and that is where all similarity ends.

There is a mention of Bosnia in the links I provided. It says, "Most of the Egyptians live in Kosovo and Macedonia, but some also live in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Central Serbia, and Vojvodina." To be honest, I never knew that until I read that though. Probably another Wikipedia inaccuracy.

I realize that there is likely no connection between actual Eqypt and these Egyptians, however some people have claimed otherwise, that is why I was throwing it out there. It's at least a coincidence, if nothing more that there are a few people who claim to be decendents from Egyptian soldiers, and that there are pyramiads in Bosnia..

Albanians are not only descendents of Illyrian; someone with nick Hajduk should already know that. Dalmats were another Illyrian tribe, and today Dalmatia has its roots in Illyrian, as well Albanians and many other local groups have.

I know that Dalmatians were another Illyrian tribe, as were people in Pannonia. However, the language of the Illyrians was more closely related to Albanian. It might not be the most politically correct thing to say, but at one time, people in Dalmatia may have spoke a derivitive of Albanian. It's contraversial.


www.britannica.com...

theillyrians.homestead.com...



[edit on 17-6-2006 by Hajduk]

Originally posted by Eteric Rice
Hey all, I'm new here and I just wanted to ask. I haven't seen this question asked yet. But then again, I haven't read through everything.

In reguards to how it was covered in earth. Is there any history of natrual floods back then? If a big flood came throuh, they can usually take mud with them. If a strong enough flood swept through the area and took down a couple of hills on the way, it could have covered the pyramid.

It's just a theory. :/

A very good question.

Actually, dirt-making is a pretty interesting process (you study it in geology and archaeology!) It doesn't take a flood to make dirt... what it does take is time and erosion, including weathering by ice and snow (which the region gets) and lots and lots of plants (which the area has, including trees.) You can create a thick layer of dirt with a forest or grassland (traps blowing dust in the wind, and there's actually a LOT of it.)

And then there's human influence (moving earth around to make forts, build houses, farm, etc.)

A flood of that sort of magnitude that you describe COULD happen if an ice dam broke on a lake as the world warmed up from the last Ice Age. However, that is NOT what happened -- that kind of catastrophe leaves huge scars on the land and it would be amazingly easy to see the effects of it.

Here's what an area swept by a vast flood looks like, 8,000 years after that flood:
www.kidscosmos.org...

...as you can see, Bosnia isn't a match.


NASA has a nice little page on the basics of soil formation:
soil.gsfc.nasa.gov...

(warning: it's just the basics. It's actually more interesting and more complicated than that.)

Originally posted by Hajduk

Originally posted by vietifulJoe

You are kind of mixing Roma (Gypsy) and Roman. If you check your link, you'll find that no mention of Bosnia is made in there, as those groups are very minor in Bosnia. I have never heard that someone claimed in Bosnia that they are Egyptian. Third of population share the same religious beliefs with modern Egyptians and that is where all similarity ends.

There is a mention of Bosnia in the links I provided. It says, "Most of the Egyptians live in Kosovo and Macedonia, but some also live in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, Central Serbia, and Vojvodina." To be honest, I never knew that until I read that though. Probably another Wikipedia inaccuracy.

I realize that there is likely no connection between actual Eqypt and these Egyptians, however some people have claimed otherwise, that is why I was throwing it out there. It's at least a coincidence, if nothing more that there are a few people who claim to be decendents from Egyptian soldiers, and that there are pyramiads in Bosnia..

Albanians are not only descendents of Illyrian; someone with nick Hajduk should already know that. Dalmats were another Illyrian tribe, and today Dalmatia has its roots in Illyrian, as well Albanians and many other local groups have.

I know that Dalmatians were another Illyrian tribe, as were people in Pannonia. However, the language of the Illyrians was more closely related to Albanian. It might not be the most politically correct thing to say, but at one time, people in Dalmatia may have spoke a derivitive of Albanian. It's contraversial.

A related question that's not answered is "how recent is the mixing?" We can find groups of Egyptians here in America... but that doesn't mean they were here 1,000 years ago. The Roman Empire shuffled a lot of folks around to suit their needs (and they shipped the Jews out of Israel, wholesale) -- so it wouldn't be terribly surprising if there were some who had been hauled out of Egypt when the Roman empire was around and sent there.

Originally posted by Crvenkapica
www.bosnian-pyramid.com...

www.bosnian-pyramid.com...

Those last two pictures very clearly show a layer of dirt inbetween the layers of stone. So I think what we're dealing with is two different structures, one built on top of the other. I have no idea what either structure could be, other than these are floorings of some sort. The upper one might be a road... needs more work to tell what it is.

I did see what looked like a piece of a wall in the first photo... would love to get a better glimpse of that.

And I'm reassured to see some professionalism in the marking of the site, there.

Originally posted by Hajduk
I know that Dalmatians were another Illyrian tribe, as were people in Pannonia. However, the language of the Illyrians was more closely related to Albanian. It might not be the most politically correct thing to say, but at one time, people in Dalmatia may have spoke a derivitive of Albanian. It's contraversial.
www.britannica.com...
theillyrians.homestead.com...

Firstly, I'm sorry. You right. There is mention of Bosnia on that page. (Not sure how did I miss that one. )

I lived in Bosnia most of my life, and I never encountered anyone who claimed to call them selves Egyptians. Even if so, I don't see any connection between them and what's bellow that hill in Visoko.

I disagree with Wikipedia on claim that Illyrians are actually Albanians. Just as I said, Albanians are as many other formed from Illyrians, but I don't believe that any good research is done to claim that they are more 'Illyrian' then others. It's just another one of today’s history mysteries. Just as small reminder, blood research are of newer date, and they are not complete yet to prove Albanian’s claim correct.

There is no good trace of Illyrian language, and there is no way that they might claim that Albanian language is derived from Illyrian. To me it sounds and has more similarities with Latin. (And for a good cause)

Originally posted by vietifulJoe

Firstly, I'm sorry. You right. There is mention of Bosnia on that page. (Not sure how did I miss that one.

)

I lived in Bosnia most of my life, and I never encountered anyone who claimed to call them selves Egyptians. Even if so, I don't see any connection between them and what's bellow that hill in Visoko.

Well, I'll take a Bosnian's word for it. Wikipedia is good for general things, but they are not always accurate. I'll believe an actual resident overall. And you are also probably correct about the connection which I insinuated. I figured it to be a long shot, but threw it out there for discussions sake.

I disagree with Wikipedia on claim that Illyrians are actually Albanians. Just as I said, Albanians are as many other formed from Illyrians, but I don't believe that any good research is done to claim that they are more 'Illyrian' then others. It's just another one of today’s history mysteries. Just as small reminder, blood research are of newer date, and they are not complete yet to prove Albanian’s claim correct.

There is no good trace of Illyrian language, and there is no way that they might claim that Albanian language is derived from Illyrian. To me it sounds and has more similarities with Latin. (And for a good cause)

It is certainly contraversial. I researched it some more this afternoon and discovered that many people have your opinion as well. I personally don't take a stance on the issue.

I'm glad that you replied to my post, because I probably would not have researched further, and I would not have realized that what I stated was far from certain.

Take care.



[edit on 17-6-2006 by Hajduk]

On Sunday, June 17th, 2005 at 12:00 pm a press conference will be held the “Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon“! - Posted on 17 Jun 2006

The Foundation Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun convoked a press conference for June 17th, 2006 at 12:00 pm.
The press conference will be held at the foot of the hill of Plješevica “Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon“. Dr. Dario Andretta from Italy, Dr. Goražd Žibret from Slovenia and Dr. Lamia el-Hadidi from Egypt will present new exhibits and poofs about the existance of man-made wall structures under the hill of Plješevica “Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon”.

Now this just got seriously intresting!

Originally posted by Crvenkapica
The Foundation Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun convoked a press conference for June 17th, 2006 at 12:00 pm.
The press conference will be held at the foot of the hill of Plješevica “Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon“. Dr. Dario Andretta from Italy, Dr. Goražd Žibret from Slovenia and Dr. Lamia el-Hadidi from Egypt will present new exhibits and poofs about the existance of man-made wall structures under the hill of Plješevica “Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon”.

And those things in the pictures are DEFinately walls! Can't tell what they're the walls of or what the age is (house, fort, garden wall, city wall, monastary wall, graveyard wall, etc, etc.) Any further information? Or are they just saying "walls"?

That would be very odd, because there's bound to be artifacts around there. And they'd have some sort of estimate of era/people by the style of the artifact.

possible entrance to the pyramid

18 June 2006

Latest discovery proves pyramid theory


A press conference held earlier today (Sunday) at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon puts “beyond doubt” the existence of a pyramid at the site, says the Archeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun (APBPS).

The Pljesevica Hill was previously named the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon by the APBPS Foundation. Experts from the Foundation have now revealed the discovery of a vertical wall that forms part of the Pyramid of The Moon.

Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt) assumes that the wall forms part of a tomb belonging to the pyramid. She pointed out that the wall is clearly manmade, comprising blocks that have been cut by man, refined and used to build this vertical wall.

Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome), announced that this evidence puts beyond doubt the existence of a true pyramid at this site.

Experts from APBPS expect to have further announcements about the nature of the wall that has been discovered in the next two to three days. Excavations will now continue to take place to the left, right and above the wall. The team has also discovered steps which they say probably lead into the tomb.

Andretta has also announced that more experts from across Italy will be coming to join Bosnians on the site to be part of largest current international archeological project.

It is said that the discovery of the entrance at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon proves beyond doubt that this is a true pyramid.

I was earlier thinking pyramid but i must say the latest pictures, without a wider view to put them in context with the hill, is looking more like monastery, shrine, fort etc. If it is a pyramid is it more likely to be a step pyramid ?. Whatever it maybe it still looks to be a good find! Thanks once again for the photo's.

m4s

That is obviously a wall, but I do not like the look of the wall, it looks more like a shelter made to guard some cattle then an wall of an important building, because of the way the stones are put together, the thickness of the walls and the type of stones used.

But it is a find, and more than the only thing I found in all my life, a tooth from a Carcharodon Megalodon, but I not an archaeologist.