Bosnian Pyramid Update

Originally posted by mojo4sale

On topic, the paved areas remind me more of a paved path or plaza rather than a road, but its position on the side of a hill is intriguing. Perhaps the tiers of a pyramid could have been decorated with these paving stones? just a thought.
Cheers M4S

And thanks for going back to the Topic

I was wondering in respects to "The Pathway" (Can we call it this?)

Byrd would best be suited to explain, but in the Pyramids in Egypt, I think the Pyramid was located, long before some of the "Other" finds. There were remains of some sort of Path, from a temple at the Nile, to Giza, but this was found, I think, long after the Pyramid, and from what was found looking at the Pyramid.

It was not like, they found some pathway that lead them to the Great Pyramids,
(I hope you follow this).

If I had any say in Bosnia, To would be turning my attention to uncovering this "Pathway", and seeing where it will lead.

Does it meander through the Area, and may have been used solely for traveling through the area, or does it lead to something within the Hills, like the Front Door of three Pyramids/Temples.

If the Pathway just travels through, with no branching paths going into some area directly pointing to the Hills, then they can resume their search as they began, 'guessing'.

But what if this led to an enterance, or Court Yard, or some other structure within the site?

They know what level it is at right now. They can "Scan" the Area and track the Pathway with Equipment, and confirm these bearings with Pit Digs along the way. I've seen Ground Penetrating Radar used in Israel to identify objects below surfaces, and I know, it would not be difficult to Scan this Pathway to see where it goes.

They may loose a week of digging, but could save 3 years of Guesswork on trying to find a way in.

Just my humble suggestion.

Ciao

Shane

Shane,

Good point there!

I also recommend they follow the "brown clay road"...

Cheers

JS

Just to note that path all of you are talking about is not on the same hill that most of pictures are from.

Most of the pictures are from location that they call 'sun pyramid', while path was found at other pyramid-like hill called 'moon pyramid'.

One of experts in I bleieve some sound research will be back to Visoko at the end of this week. He said that he is waiting to write his report as more stuff is uncovered. So far I second his opinion that this is not pyramid or some religious object and that most likely we are uncovering some millitary complex. But that's just his (and mine) opinion based on the evidence so far.

I've read that an archelogist from Egypt came the other day, and that she will stay for some time. Her name is Lamiya Al Hadidy.

Here are some pictures, sorry if they were already on the site.

Instead of excavation, or deep-sonar based scanning technology (is this even available??)...possible solution to structure identification:

Do as accurate a survey of the surface of the hill as possible, if they haven't done it already. Create a computer model from the measurements.

Next, send a simple depth finding scan, using people walking slowly up the surface holding each end of a device that can detect difference in rock (specifically, kind of stone as in the samples that are already unearthed) and the soil covering it.

Use that data to create a secondary model, compare the first to the second and see what is roughly under the surface.

You won't disturb artifacts. And the approximate structure can be assessed with a degree of certainty. If there are natural rock formations that happen to be resting with the precision of "the path", then maybe they're not natural rock formations. To add to this, aren't there helicopter mounted tools that can do this? Yes, costly, but the time saved might be worth it.

Besides, this may offer a view of the remaining part of the hill where the revelatory excavation can not reach due to time and/or funds...

Just offering my two Dinara....

Newtron

Dinar is not currency anymore. Marka is the currency. (about 1.5 mark's for 1 US $)

All of those experts from the BOsnia, who said there was no pyramid are now trying to remove Semir Osmanagic from the site, and are offering their 'professional help'.

I guess they are just after money.

Originally posted by vietifulJoe

I guess they are just after money.

...or the glory of the 'next' big archaeological discovery. The infighting between 'experts' has a colourful history.

Originally posted by newtron25

Instead of excavation, or deep-sonar based scanning technology (is this even available??)...possible solution to structure identification:

Newtron

From what I saw in Israel, they operate a Scanner on a Plastic Skid, "Of Sorts" much like a Wide Toboggan, and drag this over the surface using ropes. The Images detect structure, much like a Fish Finder does in water, and denotes differences between what it "passed over" and something foreign can be identified, since it stands out from the normal clutter.

If they use such a tool, and started scanning in a place they know Path is beneath, they can follow it along, pulling the "Sled" trying to maintain the Structure Image, in this case the Tile Like stone. Once they reach an area where the Tile Like Stones ends, and it becomes scattered imagery, they mark it as an edge, and return to a location they had the Original Path reading. And then they can just keep going

If conditions where good, (Level Ground, No Obstacles, ETC) they could do a Mile or more in a day, and know exactly if the path spilts or turns or evens leads to the "Presumed Sites"

I saw this near Masada, and they had been seeking items in Debris Areas, so it was a slow pace, but having a example to start with (Like a Known Path), a few feet below the surface, all you need to maintain is the Similiar structure on the Screen for the whole time.

It is not like they are doing an EXTREMELY Diffcult search, if used in this manner.

Anyways really, what is it, 5 ft at the Most below the Ground Cover?

Ciao

Shane



[edit on 15-6-2006 by Shane]

Who's offering to take up the excavation? Do they want him gone to take the credit, or to prevent him from possibly destroying anymore actual artifacts?

We really appreciate your commentary (even when we disagree!) VietfulJoe!

Originally posted by vietifulJoe
One of experts in I bleieve some sound research will be back to Visoko at the end of this week. He said that he is waiting to write his report as more stuff is uncovered. So far I second his opinion that this is not pyramid or some religious object and that most likely we are uncovering some millitary complex. But that's just his (and mine) opinion based on the evidence so far.

I've read that an archelogist from Egypt came the other day, and that she will stay for some time. Her name is Lamiya Al Hadidy.

Here are some pictures, sorry if they were already on the site.

Now THOSE are clearly manmade! Shane has suggested a pathway or roadway, and it could be that... as well as temple flooring or just about any other kind of floor. And as he pointed out, these things do get buried and are hard to find. You can't use the same kinds of techniques as used to locate roads in the desert because trees cover things up here. Still... some sort of image processing might show some interesting detail.

Uh... no, I don't know yet how one might do it, but I suspect it needs a false color photo based on other information (like infared.)

Concerns were raised here on the board about whether the dig was being done in a professional manner so that all the minute objects could be recovered. I can't tell from what I see. But with the number of archaeologists lurking around, there'd be rumblings about his techniques if they were totally unprofessional.

So far, I haven't heard any criticisms...

vietifulJoe - Just to add to what Byrd said in that it's great to have people at the actual site, it really brings the thread to life. Please keep up your commentary.

Originally posted by vietifulJoe

All of those experts from the BOsnia, who said there was no pyramid are now trying to remove Semir Osmanagic from the site, and are offering their 'professional help'.

I would be interested to know if any of them now think it is a pyramid, or if they want to take over because of the intriguing stuff being uncovered and they are worried that the dig is not being handled in a professional way. I'm no expert but those last photos of the "path" had children playing on it and a somebody smoking a cigarette, which can't be good. Though to be fair to Osmanagic he may not have legal right to keep anyone off the site.

I would also be interested to how you know that some experts are trying to remove Osmanagic from the site? If it is just Osmanagic who says so then I will treat that information suspiciously, as he has been shown to have a casual relationship with the truth and I believe he is somewhat of a fantasist.

14 June

Foundation seeks international support


Massive manmade blocks found at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon and Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun excavation sites back claims that these are pyramids, says the Foundation of the Archaelogical Park; Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun. Yet the belief – or not – in the existence of the pyramids is dividing communities within Bosnia.



Surprisingly, perhaps, to outsiders, Bosnia’s own archaeological community remains opposed to the excavation of the pyramidal structures, claiming it will damage the ruins of a Medieval town on the top of the Pyramid of the Sun.



The Foundation responds that the medieval ruins are protected by an ‘exclusion zone’; no excavations are taking place within this area.

Quote: “Official State people have been on the site to check all our work and they confirmed that all the work is being done 100 metres away from the protected zone.”



Supporters of the pyramid theory also point out, somewhat wryly, that it was these very experts who should have protected the Medieval ruins in previous years; very little now remains of these old structures, something for which the excavations are now taking the blame.



Even English experts have been drawn into the wrangle. Prof Anthony Harding, president of European Archaeology (name) wrote to The Times to say that the project at the Bosnian Pyramids was destroying the town at the top of the site – after a 15 minute trip bypassing the pyramid.



Despite the divisions, the excavations go on and the site is raising considerable interest from international experts, including experts from Egypt who are currently on site.



The level of interest is such that the Foundation has put out an urgent request for additional administrative and funding support for its work.

Originally posted by Crvenkapica

Massive manmade blocks found at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon and Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun excavation sites back claims that these are pyramids, says the Foundation of the Archaelogical Park; Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun.

What 'massive manmade blocks'?

All I've seen are what may be manmade paving, comprised of rather small stones ...

The big blocks - which would certainly be evidence in support of Osmanagic's conjecture - are notable only by their total and utter absence .... Surely by now they should have found an area comprised of large rectangular blocks piled one upon another?

What 'massive manmade blocks'?

here

bosnian-pyramid.com...

Originally posted by Crvenkapica
What 'massive manmade blocks'?

here

bosnian-pyramid.com...

Sorry, but those are clearly not man made - there is not a straight edge anywhere on the rocks in that photo. Also the so called moon pyramid is nothing like pyramid shaped.

In the following picture, in the photo of what looks like tiles, it is visible that the "tiles" on the outer edge should have been visible before the digging, because we can see that they reach the grassy surface that was digged.



If this was visible or almost visible today, then this is surely something allready known by the population of that area.

The next photo shows what worries people about the way the excavations are made.



Some of the edges of the supposed man made stone block had what looks like an "encounter" with a harder object, like a shovel or something like that.

If this is one of the most important archaeological findings in the recent times shouldn’t they be more careful not to break it?

@ masque – You as well might be right. From what I heard from people who are still in Bosnia, those local ‘experts’ were unable on couple occasions to find funds for heating utilities for museum. Also, most (if not all) of their ‘professional’ work is based behind the desk. Not much of field work. Because of this most of sites in Bosnia are either destroyed or are on the way to be destroyed.

@ Shane – Expert from www.teraelement.com... will be in Bosnia at the end of this week. He will do some research, but I don’t believe that he will post results very soon.

@Nygdan – The group that announced interest to come and dig includes some ‘sceptics’ who will come and try to prove this is not what is claimed to be. IMHO it does not matter if this structure is pyramid or something else. Just as I said before, this location was not strange for archeologist before, and all professional archeologist claimed that nothing should be bellow that hill.

@ Byrd – Semir, man behind the claim made a lot of enemy in local archeology by telling them that they are fossils from 19th centaury, mostly locked behind the desks, where they are waiting for their retirements. Some of those got very offended and are spending all their time to disprove Semir’s claim, without coming to location. (In other words – not so professional way) Before he called them that way, he did call all archeologist to come and help, but instead they said that they visited location on many occasions, and that there is nothing bellow there. (There is lengthy trailer of dialogue between Semir and members of Bosnian archeological association available on the net, but all of them are in Bosnian language. It is apparent on those videos that those experts are/were more concerned with them being proven wrong then with what really lays bellow those hills.

@ FatherLukeDuke – I believe that they will wait until some good evidence is found to make their reports.

@ All – I’m not in Bosnia atm, but I am in contact with some people who already were there/ who will go there. I will post more as soon as I get more information.


Cheers!


[edit on 6/15/06 by vietifulJoe]

Listen, expense is relative and can be absorbed by any number of several hundred different universities, heck, even colleges around the world.

We could even set up an ATS Bosnian Pyramid Research Foundation through PayPal. Anything left over in the fund (should they find out its not a pyramid) could be used to buy ATS Bosnian Pyramid (with circle and line-through it) t-shirts to working contributors of this thread. I think our own sponsored t-shirt with ATS logo included might be cool, but I don't even know who to go to in order to make that happen...

Anyway, why isn't anyone stepping up, soliciting donated facilities and time to get these things carbon dated. It's probably high on their list, but if they really only have less than 150 days to go on this dig without any further evidence to convince the authorities to continue digging (or tell themselves to stop)...a carbon date of the stones would be, IMHO, mucho importante. I'm sure they speak a little Spanish in Bosnia too.

It's like this guy is either a) being thwarted by the entire scientific community at every turn, b) is not managing the dig very well, c) being hampered by a government that can not accomodate the importance of what his find is, d) is being met by Bosnians who really want this to be nothing more than another tourist trap and don't really care if its a pyramid/temple or not, or e) ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Carbon Dating. It's the next thing we'll have to hear. And if not, comparative rock sample analysis (is there such a thing) with one of the tiles. If you can't get the whole carbon dating test, what's the next available test in order of accuracy?

Anyone? Geologists on this thread? Anyone?

I'm off to Google again....


Newtron

Originally posted by Crvenkapica
What 'massive manmade blocks'?

here

bosnian-pyramid.com...

As FLD says, that looks like natural bedrock - according to geological maps there should be conglomerates looking just like on the hill.

But in any case, there appears to be a just single layer of rock there lying parallel to the angle of the slope of the hill. How does that fit in with any known design of pyramid? If it's the casing (and why use such a rough rock for casing?) then there should be horizontal blocks underneath it. Can't be that difficult to remove a layer of casing and reveal unmistakable evidence of a manmade structure underneath.

But it seems that as soon as a single layer of rock - varying in type and angle of inclination - has been uncovered, the excavators move on ...... Had they stuck to one spot and continued digging down they would have by now produced clear and irrefutable evidence of a manmade pyramid. If that is what it is .....

@newtron25 -

As far as I know carbon dating can't be performed on rocks. That's why archeological community is still divided on simple things as the age of pyramids in Egypt. That's why they have to dig more around to find material for dating.

Bosnian goverment is no position to sponsor digging, as we are well dependent on EU and world, but on their suggestion UNESCO will send their experts.

I also heard from some people who know Semir in person that some of the experts that were claimed to be on the list of the experts that supposed to work on the site before the site was open declined their comming after they heard that he can't pay them. Couple pages back in this discussion someone pointed on those experts.

[edit on 6/15/06 by vietifulJoe]