And it starts...

OK, let's keep this simple:

Who caused 9/11 by hijacking planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people, women and children?

Mossad? the NWO? the Masons? Barney the dinosaur?

don't play dumb....

Who grabbed our embassy in the 70's?

Mossad to make Iran look bad ?

Who bombed a train in the U.K. a year ago killing hundreds?

Mossad to make Muslims look bad? the NWO to get an I.D. card? the evil Masons?

Israel is indeed the good guy. They are the victims yet are portrayed as the epithome of evil. Muslims are always the problem- Indonesia, India, China, America, Europe.... Wherever Islam goes blood follows. That's a fact. Of all current wars going on at the moment 2 out of 3 involve Muslims (don't believe me? Go to the UN website). If they want respect, it must be mutual. Enough of the Tariqya. Enough of blaming the victim. I for one am tired of this crap.

Originally posted by Nakash
Who caused 9/11 by hijacking planes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people, women and children?

- Who caused it?

Well some might say decades of a repressive foreign and economic policy that was happy to prop up handy and friendly fascist regimes and see people in much of the ME live lives in the most powerless and grinding poverty and repession had a lot to do with it.

On the other hand the official version says it was mostly Saudi Arabians.
Certainly not Iranians (or Iraqis).

Who grabbed our embassy in the 70's?

- That would be some of the Iranian people after they overthrew the Shah's brutal dictatorship.

Israel is indeed the good guy.

- Yeah such lovely and nice "good guys"........

...... that you would love to be a Arab or a Palestinian under their rule, I bet.

as if.

They are the victims yet are portrayed as the epithome of evil.

- So says you.

The rest of the (sane) world sees them as part of the problem too, neither wholly evil but certainly not the absolute 'white knights' in the situation either.

Muslims are always the problem- Indonesia, India, China, America, Europe.... Wherever Islam goes blood follows. That's a fact. Of all current wars going on at the moment 2 out of 3 involve Muslims (don't believe me? Go to the UN website).

- Cue the ridiculous racist and sectarian simplistic nonsense.

If they want respect, it must be mutual. Enough of the Tariqya. Enough of blaming the victim. I for one am tired of this crap.

- Yeah, how dare anyone but the side you approve of complain about their lot in any of this, right?

[edit on 15-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Great pinkey,the NWO and Mossad are out to get you. Fact is, Israel didn't do 9/11- Muslims did. Fact is Israel didn't seize our embassy. Muslims did. Fact is though you hate the Jews with all your heart they are our friends and Muslims are the ones blowing up civilians in Iraq only so big evil America get's the blame for all the destruction when we leave. Oh, and you still didn't answer the question on why 2 out of every 3 wars being waged at the moment involve Muslims. I don't care either on if Iran used to be Persia or the hijackers were Saudis- the Islamic cult always take the priority and that's all that matters.

[edit on 15-4-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by NeoQuest
It doesn't matter what nejad said, much of what we here is still exaggerated beyond even comments like these. They recently stated that Iran could make a bomb in 16 days, and now I here that an Israeli general is saying 2009, what a world of difference. These guys either don't know what their talking about or are exaggerating on purpose. Either way were being hyped into fury.

What do you think sells more papers. "Iran can build bomb in 16 days" or "Iran can build bomb by 2009"?

The media really does love to pump this up and the average personw ill not know the difference between enriched uranium and weapons grade enriched uranium. Actually most people won't have heard the term before, well maybe outside an action movie. This isn't to call the average person stupid, i simply mean that not everyone spends their time reading this stuff.

Originally posted by Nakash
Israel didn't do 9/11

- Feel free to point out where I have ever said Israel did.

Fact is Israel didn't seize our embassy.

- .....and once again, you are at liberty to reveal where you got this gem from too.
I have never said otherwise ......*hint*......if you look at what I actually said you'll see, written down in the words I typed, that I said the embassy was siezed by Iranians.

Fact is though you hate the Jews with all your heart

- This is just a ludicrous and deeply pathetic lie.

The last resort, huh?
Call someone anti-semitic (which is interesting considering you have me down as a supporter of the Muslim Arabs - a Semite people )

Questioning Israel's past behaviour, motives or intent is not "hate....with all your heart".

Grow up.

Oh, and you still didn't answer the question on why 2 out of every 3 wars being waged at the moment involve Muslims.

- Maybe it is because the region is central to some of those vital resources the 'developed countries' need, either directly in terms of where the resource itself is to be found or a neighbouring country through which it must transit.

Hence the 'habit' of propping up corrupt and tyrannical governments in those countries which almost invariably leads to unrest, instabilty, rebellion and civil wars in the long term.

I don't care either on if Iran used to be Persia or the hijackers were Saudis- the Islamic cult always take the priority and that's all that matters.

- You can prefer to ignore the background reality all you like, ignorance may be your active choice but it hardly helps you understand what is going on.

As for your sectarian ravings?
It about as relevant as talking about the USA or Europe being continually swept by a wave of 'Christian crime'.

Hey Pinky have you signed up yet?

www.cnn.com...

MEK supported by western sources huh? Prove it. Iran has stated that they support Hezbollah. Iran has stated that they will shut off oil flow if they are attacked, meaning the straits. Look it up if you don't believe me since you won't believe "Israeli" controlled news sites.

Ok tell me when did Israel invade any of their neighbors? Of all the wars started against Israel, who started them? Who ended up winning? Also if the arab states were so worried about the pals, why did they oppress them and steal land from them?

www.mideastweb.org...

Yes it was all the US' fault for the 79 hostage taking.

You failed to answer my questions. You also cannot deny who the aggresors are in the wars around the world. In Africa, Asia, Europe, attacks in North America, all involve or are by muslims. Hell look at Iraq, they kill each other at mosques for crying out loud. They have an inability to live with others, hell they can't even live with each other and this is a fact.

To say that the Iranian Presidents comments are worrisome should be needless, but I'll say it anyway. They are worrisome. I am not sure how they can be interpreted to mean anything but the annihilation of Israel.

Something must be done about Iran. Hopefully, diplomacy will work, and we'll all have that budwieser fueled paradise spoken of earlier (can't stand budwieser, but it's better than radioactive water). If we take the Iranian president at his word, then a war to the death between Israel and Iran is all but inevitable. Do we need to guess what will happen? Millions on both sides will die. Israel has the bomb almost certainly, Iran is working on it, or has it already, guess what happens next. The missiles pass each other in the upper atmosphere, and several minutes later, large chunks of the Middle East become even more inhospitable then they are already, only now you won't need a reading lamp at night.

But maybe, just maybe, all his talk about destroying Israel is nothing but empty rhetoric...maybe. Does the rest of the world dare take that chance?

A war now, however nasty, short and brutish, beats the alternative 4 or 5 years down the road when two countries destroy each other with the weapons of doomsday.

In my opinion, its coming down to this: Fight the war in the immediate future, and know the danger of a nuclear Iran is stifled, or sit on our collective hands and pray really, really hard that sanity will prevail in Iran down the road. I hope sanity does break out soon, but I've my doubts. Maybe, just maybe, the younger generation in Iran, and to a lesser extent in Israel, will force some changes in leadership. But I don't see it happening anytime soon. Mores the pity. Alot of people are about to die in the not too distant future. But hey, that'll mean the Madi, or whatever he's called, will come. So its all good.

Makes me wish for the good ole days of the Cold War. It was nothing if not predictable. Never thought I'd hear myself say that!

I quote:

"I wish there was a liquer store here, that way people would have something to do, and there would be a lot less suicides in Nunavut."
- Christopher.

That's how "westerners" (north americans and english people) want the world to be.
That alcohol/budweiser fueled community is your heaven, not ours.
Besides Budweiser tastes like something you squeeze out of your socks after a long hike.

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Christian IX]

You failed to answer my questions. You also cannot deny who the aggresors are in the wars around the world. In Africa, Asia, Europe, attacks in North America, all involve or are by muslims. Hell look at Iraq, they kill each other at mosques for crying out loud. They have an inability to live with others, hell they can't even live with each other and this is a fact.

No he didn't, he answered your questions(if they could even be called as such). You just just to ignore him and not read his posts. But then again, you all like making up your own little fantasy world's anyway, so it's hardly surprising...

Plus, your non-sensical ravings that Muslims are involved in all the worlds trouble spots make naff all sense. here is a list of some of the worlds toruble spots that don't include them:

Nepal Civil War
Uganda (Christians here dude)
Ivory Coast (Christians here too....)
Congo...Lord's Resiistance Army doing some horrible things with kids here
Columbia...Catholics here...
Senegal


Now, thats just some current ones. I could pull an even bigger list for the past 10 years if you really want me too....

hey chris, It was Muhammed not Jesus or Moses who came up with the 72 virgins all you can drink wine lake heavens. In fact the Quran says that the "Antichrist" (ie: Elijah who will appear in Israel, or Jesus himself) will preach a "different heaven then the one you were promised" (paraphrase, ie: wine lakes and 72 virgins). stu, the fact is people are getting tired at Muslims lies- everyday somebody here on ATs claims Mossad did 9/11, or some other crapsh#t to deflect the attention from the real aggresors.












that's Islam for you. Happy Easter btw



[edit on 16-4-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by Nakash
hey chris, It was Muhammed not Jesus or Moses who came up with the 72 virgins all you can drink wine lake heavens. In fact the Quran says that the "Antichrist" (ie: Elijah who will appear in Israel, or Jesus himself) will preach a "different heaven then the one you were promised" (paraphrase, ie: wine lakes and 72 virgins).

Koran doesn't actually mention anything about 72 "Virgins" as a reward for being a murdere or suicide bomber. It's actually a reqrd for upholding the five pillars of Islam and being devout. It has been hijacked by Terrorists etc as an enticement to commit atrocities, but no where in the Koran does it say that murder is rewarded.
The actual passage reads:

"Surely those who guard (against evil) are in a secure place,
In gardens and springs;
They shall wear of fine and thick silk, (sitting) face to face;
Thus (shall it be), and We will wed them with Houris pure, beautiful ones.[44:51-54]
"In them shall be those who restrained their eyes; before them neither man nor jinni shall have touched them."[55:56]

See..."Those who Guard against evil"..it actually seems to mean those who don't give into temptation, those who are devout, those who are good muslims..sound familiar? Seems to be standard fare across the Abrahamic religions for your entrance pass. The Koran even says not only Muslims will get into heaven, as Allah will allow those who have led good lives from other religions too (Christianity and Judaism)

You can see how that phrase could be warped though by terrorists, but then you can find examples of the same throughout any other religion.

Forgive me for asking this stu, but what sort of God will promise an eternity of carnal sin to his followers? This whole 72 virgins biz stinks to the heavens of paganism where women were in essence sex slaves/property. Also, the terrorists would dispute whether you were performing the 5 pillars properly (Jihad is included within the 5 pillars).

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Nakash]

[Mod Edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire preceeding post]


Don't know! Not a muslim myself, just read up on it ..Admittedly, it does seem rather odd though.

Also, Jihad does not have to include dressing up in a suicide belt or cutting off someones head. Jihad can take many forms apparently.



Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 4/16/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by scarecrow19d
Hey Pinky have you signed up yet?

www.cnn.com...

- Your link doesn't work.

MEK supported by western sources huh?

- The information on where they lobby is freely available.
Go look around and see them lobbying in the US government.

Prove it

- Come on, tell the truth, you wouldn't choose to believe it no matter what you were shown.......course the MEK (and friends) have lobbied in the heart of the US government for years on end for nothing , right?

Iran has stated that they support Hezbollah.

- Did anyone deny they do?

Iran has stated that they will shut off oil flow if they are attacked, meaning the straits.

- You mean if attacked Iran will attempt to defend herself?

Is that news to anyone?

Look it up if you don't believe me since you won't believe "Israeli" controlled news sites.

- The last one doing the rounds here was a claim Iran was threatening to close down the gulf and straits (the "if attacked" bit was conspicuous by it's absence).
It was carried by a single Israeli source and not to be found anywhere amongst the world's reputable news networks.
It's that type of situation where I will question the validity of the single source.

That strikes me as perfectly normal and sensible.....but it appears you disagree?

Ok tell me when did Israel invade any of their neighbors?

- Look matey if you really have no clue about this then I suggest you go away and do some reading. 1982 would be a productive date to begin with, hmmmm?

Of all the wars started against Israel, who started them?

- Is this a logic quiz.
Obviously in the wars started against Israel it wasn't Israel starting them.

Who ended up winning?

- If a several decades long vicious murderous and running sore is your idea of 'winning' and victory that is your affair.

Also if the arab states were so worried about the pals, why did they oppress them and steal land from them?

- Er, did you just choose to ignore the parts where I referred to brutal and oppressive regimes propped up by 'the west'?

Yes it was all the US' fault for the 79 hostage taking.

- Well obviously the Americans did not take those hostages themselves (but who ever said they did?).
They did get themselves into a situation where, when the dam finally broke, they were on the wrong side, hated so deeply and closely associated with the Shah.
That part is entirely of their own doing and short-sightedness.

You failed to answer my questions.

- No I didn't.

You just want narrow, very simplistic, black and white answers.

Sorry but the world isn't like that.

You also cannot deny who the aggresors are in the wars around the world. In Africa, Asia, Europe, attacks in North America, all involve or are by muslims. Hell look at Iraq, they kill each other at mosques for crying out loud. They have an inability to live with others, hell they can't even live with each other and this is a fact.

- OK, you are entitled to your views and you are welcome to them.



[edit on 16-4-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Yes, the spin being shoved recently is that Jihad is just dialogue and debate not violence, but the Quran clearly put's Jihad as war, which is troublesome. Glad I'm not Muslim, so many contradictions and irrational orders in the Quran.... At least there's some equality for women in Islam.



[edit on 16-4-2006 by Nakash]

www.mideastweb.org...

Sminky go ahead and read this link. It is about as even handed as can be. Then go back to telling me that Israel are the only ones to blame in the ME troubles.

Here is the Iran link.

www.cnn.com...

TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) -- Some 200 Iranians have volunteered in the past few days to carry out "martyrdom missions" against U.S. and British interests around the world if Iran is attacked, a hard-line group said Sunday.

The fresh fears over a possible U.S. attack on Iran's nuclear sites helped attract volunteers during its latest recruitment drive, Mohammad Ali Samadi, spokesman for the Committee for the Commemoration of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Campaign, said.

The Committee for the Commemoration of Martyrs of the Global Islamic Campaign, which says it has no affiliation with the government, was formed in 2004. Since then, Samadi said, some 52,000 people have signed up to be involved in possible attacks.

The Sunday Times of London, quoting unnamed Iranian officials, reported Iran had 40,000 trained suicide bombers prepared to strike western targets if Iran is attacked.

"The main force, named the Special Unit of Martyr Seekers in the Revolutionary Guards, was first seen last month when members marched in a military parade," the report said.

Nice training terrorists by the Govt. of Iran. And people wonder why we question Iran's motives when it comes to their Nuclear Program.

answering-islam.org...
Here have some more understanding of the violent nature of Islam.

Offensive War to Spread Islam

Muhammad and his successors initiated offensive wars against peaceful countries in order to impose Islam by force as well as to seize the abundance of these lands. Their objective was to capture women and children and to put an end to the poverty and hunger from which Arab Muslims suffered. So, Islam was imposed upon Syria, Jordan, Palestine (Jerusalem), Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Iran, all of North Africa, some parts of India and China, and later Spain.

Undoubtedly, the concept of an offensive war to spread the faith is a genuine Islamic concept; it is known as a Holy War for the sake of God. We will see what Muslim scholars have explicitly determined that this is the essence of Islam. They also indicate that if sufficient military power is available to Islamic countries, they ought to attack all other countries in order to force them to embrace Islam, or pay the poll tax and be subject to Islamic rule. Muhammad (as well as all the Caliphs who succeeded him) called for holy wars . All scholars and lawyers acknowledge that.

Those who say that the Islamic wars were always defensive do not understand Islam and have not read sufficient history. It should be evident that offensive wars to spread Islam are the heart of the entire religion of Islam. They embody the meaning of "Striving for the cause of God"—holy war to make the Word of God supreme over the whole world. Our study will be filled with objective quotes from the statements of scholars, along with a throng of true stories

The Sayings and Deeds of Muhammad and His Companions

One of Muhammad’s popular claims is that God commanded him to fight people until they become Muslims and carry out the ordinances of Islam. All Muslim scholars without exception agree on this. Muhammad said:

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

Scholars understood this claim to mean the waging of offensive wars against unbelievers in order to force them to embrace Islam as individuals or communities. This is exactly what Muhammad himself did in carrying out God’s commandment to him.

Ok whoever disputed who has been starting wars, don't remember who it was, they are important enough for me to remember, should take a more comprehensive look. Iran-Iraq war. Both muslim countries right? Iraq-Kuwait. Same there. Pakistan and India, all their wars, Muslims again. East Timor, the Philippines and the terrorists there, who did the bombings in England last year?

How about Darfur, Somalia, Yemen, those pirates off the African coast.

Originally posted by scarecrow19d
Then go back to telling me that Israel are the only ones to blame in the ME troubles.

- Perhaps you'd care to show where I said that "Israel are the only ones to blame in the ME troubles"?

Maybe you should confine yourself to reading and commenting only on what I actually say, instead of what you want me to say or what you just think I'm saying.

Nice training terrorists by the Govt. of Iran.

- Yeah, how dare they prepare to defend their own country, cos it's not like they could ever imagine themselves to be under any kind of pressure or threat at the moment, right?

And people wonder why we question Iran's motives when it comes to their Nuclear Program.

- It seems to me that scepticism and questioning is one thing, making moves to ensure that the tangible benefits of IAEA inspection and 24/7 scrutiny are lost is plain crazy.

.....and if you take a historical perspective longer than 10 minutes and want to talk of death, destruction, invasion, theft and oppression 'Muslims' have a long long way to go to match the history of the 'white' supposedly 'Christian'.

Ok whoever disputed who has been starting wars, don't remember who it was, they are important enough for me to remember, should take a more comprehensive look. Iran-Iraq war. Both muslim countries right? Iraq-Kuwait. Same there. Pakistan and India, all their wars, Muslims again. East Timor, the Philippines and the terrorists there, who did the bombings in England last year?

That was me and thanks for your "they're not important enough for me to remember" remark, i love you too and I do hope that I am not disrupting your otherwise busy schedule...

Iraq was a secular country and started the War against Iran to prevent the spread of the Islamic revolution with the US backing.

The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait has a basis in legitamcy over claims to land and oil.

Pakistan and India, two secularly led countries (one predominately Hindu I might add) is over territory, not religion and neither side is innocent in this conflict.

Are you seriously trying to blame Islam for every war? Dont be such a fool. If you want to have serious debate about this, then please can you step off the "Islam is bad" plinth you've put yourself on and begin to use that grey matter that I assume is somewhere between your ears.

Originally posted by Nemithesis
One should also keep in mind that the news we get is often a) wrong b) biased c) disinformation d) designed

What does Iran have to say? www.irna.ir...

Yes, the Islamic Republic News Agency, ah, now there is a twist-free, correct and unbiased source for ya!

Here is just a sample of what that completely unbiased news source had to say
written by Tabriz, E. Azarbaijan Prov., July 14, IRNA:

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that despite their savage and criminal nature, the occupying regime of Qods and its Western supporters do not dare to pose even the slightest threat against Iran.

"Thanks God, despite its criminal and savage nature, the Zionist regime and its supporters in the West do not have the power to look in the same way towards Iran," President Ahmadinejad said in an address to a group of people in provincial city of Osku.

Yes, yes, let's keep the lie going that Muslims and their countries are peace-loving, innocent sufferers of "Western and Israeli aggression". Let's forget the dancing in the streets in Muslim cities at the news of 3000 killed on on American soil on 9/11/01.

Let's forget the prayer that is prayed every daily and especially on Fridays by Muslims the world over:

O Allah may you make the apostates against each other and the polytheists against their likes and bring out the Unitarians from them safely, with their spoils, O Lord of Worlds, O Allah. May their women be widowed, may their children be orphaned, may their blood freeze in their veins, may their food be stuck in their inner testines. O Allah, destroy them make their miseries strong among them, O Allah grant us victory over them, O Allah send your punishment on them, bring division in the midst of their union, scattering them, disseminating their numbers. O Allah, grant us victory over them. O Allah may their snares be slaughtered and be scuttled within themselves. O Allah show us your power. O Mighty One and the Vanquisher, O Allah show us in them a dark day as in the day of A’ad and Thamud. O Allah, quake the earth under their feet, O Allah empower venomous creatures over them and send hail storms over them as you did over A’ad and Thamud and deliver them as captives in the hands of your believing slaves and humiliate the polytheists and, O Allah, lift up the banner of Islam …

Yes, lets call war peace, evil good, and lies the truth. Why not, we'll all be Muslims one day at this rate and then, we won't have to worry about ANYTHING, cuz the Muslims will take care of their own, right?

This garbage makes me sick.