Illegal Immigrants want to take over South/Western States and merge with Mexico.

I was clarifying my point in reference to a comment by Truthseeka implying that we should fear Mexican violence. The only reference he used for a history of violence was Aztec sacrefices. I simply dismissed that point as garbage.

Originally posted by douglas2k4
Also, the Native Americans didn't take over and murder most of the indenginous people of a continent.

That's only because these people didn't travel the whole country.. had they had the means and need to ( because most tribes didn't have thousands of people), then I'm sure they would have.

Originally posted by douglas2k4

Also, the Native Americans didn't take over and murder most of the indenginous people of a continent.

because they were basically a stone age culture.....logisticly it was pretty much impossible for them to do so. The difference is Europeans were able to fight off the invasions from asia and the middle east....who were also able to fight off the invasions from us.

What makes one worse than the other?

Should we crowd the entire planet back onto the African Savannah that we came from? Every place was took forcibly from others.

im sick of people blaming eachother, fighting over why one race is more to blame. things happened, why are we still fighting over whos fault it is? if we all have a similar goal, why do we keep fighting over the means to reach it? we have to start doing whatever we ourselves feel is right, rather then who to blame it on.

you want to go and blame it on all white people, fine make me suffer for action of people i never knew. want to blame the aztecs? im sure they really care now. want to blame the terrorists? im sure it makes a huge difference to them. want to blame the minority races? im sure that will accomplish so much once youve done that. now to step off the sarcasm and let you remember that if we all want to be free, why would we rather fight over the means to do so rather then just doing it our own ways.

Malcolm X and Martin Luther King jr. werent trying to kill eachother because they had a different method to reach the same goal. maybe thats why they actually got somewhere. they stopped the inner fighting, started fighting the outside. Maybe when we start realizing the real goal and whats stopping us from actually getting there, then we can make some progress.

once your done fighting over what race is to blame and come to the conclusion that it really doesnt matter, then maybe we can start to focus on the problems at hand. until then, i guess ill just have to sit and wait til i either grow up to the age where people will listen to me or until this country falls apart. either way im the one on the side lines waiting for you to finish watching my friends destroy their lives and the future generation growing up more twisted and misguided then ever before.

(spelling error edit)

[edit on 3-4-2006 by grimreaper797]

But therefore you say everyone is equal, then how come the majority of people in power in America are of European descent? I don't see the connection with saying something, then doing something completely different. Oh I remember now, when the Europeans presented the Natives with treaties, they signed them, and then the Europeans disavowed the treaties or went against the treaties. The difference is that the government is doing the same thing to the American people today.

I would like to get back to the main thread debate.

And grimreaper797, Martin Luther King and Malcolm were both advocates for change, and the only way to accomplish that was to bring the truth to the forefront of what was REALLY going on at the time. I respect them for that, and for bringing knowledge to the people.

But back to the debate on the Illegal Immigrants, most people label them criminals, which they are, but then people go further by labeling ALL OF THEM rapists and murders, or of similar professions, which I'm guess is only a small percentage of the Illegals. I know for a fact that it's this attitude that just won't work, and the sooner people see that, the better. And shooting them won't work either.

what i was saying by the malcolm and martin luther king comment was they were both aware they were different, their methods were different, their ideals were different, but the goal was similar. thats why they both had a sense of respect for eachother. they werent fighting eachother because they knew better.

Malcolm didnt agree with Kings ways really much, but that wasnt what mattered. it wasnt about HOW they got there, but that they DID get there. why people feel it matters more about how they get there when they have the same goal is beyond me. if you both want something, why fight eachother about how to get it, both should just go their ways and get it.

I wont deny that a majority in power are white, but look further that. the MORE important point....they are all rich. some of the families im sure you can trace their riches all the way back to slavery. its not race, but riches that determines your worth in this society. when you trace it back that was determind by race (slaves were poor, plantation owners became rich) but now thats not the case. if your rich, you have power, if your not then your worthless to them. i can die just as much as you can for their war. if im a statistic just like you, are we really different at all?

in their eyes, we are equal. we are both just numbers. in our eyes we are different, and made to believe so. divide and conquer as they say. divide the majority, the poor, and you can conquer them/ use them. thats how it worked in most societies. the powerful would drive the people appart in whatever way possible. keep them fighting eachother, who will ever see the rich mens evil doings then?

@grimreaper797: You bring up valid points regarding Marting and Malcolm, but I have my opinion about Civil Rights, but that is for a whole other thread.

You also bring up good points regarding what I posted earlier, America was conquered, they used slaves to become rich, and a lot of political figures still use that old money to maintain power. Now if you read my past posts, I have arrived at the end of the arguement.

It's not a race thing with me, nor should it be with anyone, It's just the truth.

And with the different outlets for information nowadays, such as this very forum, were we can discuss topics openly, which couldn't be done in the past.

Later

[edit on 3-4-2006 by douglas2k4]

[edit on 3-4-2006 by douglas2k4]

yes but what im saying its a waste of point to fight about whether or not its the white man or black man or hispanic man....hes still the rich man. and the rich man is the real threat to us.

Yes grimreaper797, It doesn't matter about race, a rich man is still a rich man. That is the still imposing threat that middle-class and lower-class have had to deal with for ages.

Originally posted by truthseeka
[Are you high?

No.

It would be bad enough if it were just the illegals BREAKING THE LAW (remember, they are ILLEGAL aliens), but you have the militant groups calling for the heads of Americans, literally.

So the drive, on the part of the "elites", which "makes your ass hurt", is to divide the masses? You won't fall for that, right?

I said it European conquest BS because you told me to go back to Europe; I am not white. Maybe in your fantasy world you can see my skin pigmentation through a computer screen, though.

Oh, and to piss you off more, I also have Native American blood.

Why should this "piss me off"?

I didn't say that to minimalize how the Europeans did the true Americans. Quite frankly, I wish this was discussed more often, instead of being swept under the rug. At the same time, I ain't gonna let you paint the Mexicas as down-trodden innocents while you hail them calling to kill all white males over 16 and black people, though to a lesser extent.

"Them"? Just how great a threat is this? Are you overreacting? Is someone trying to divide, like you said?

You conveniently forget the sacrifices of the Aztecs. I know it was to keep the earth intact, but they tore out a hell of a lot of hearts.

You conveniently forget the Lynching Murder Rituals of the Americans. Slamming crowbars through the chests of Black boys while stabbing out their eyes, castrating them and burning them alive for the sake of protecting white women from the noxious raping Black beasts. Ever seen a lynching postcard? American Culture.

See, the Spanish didn't just come in and walk all over the Aztec warriors; they had plenty of help from other tribes who got tired of being sacrificed.

Divide and conquer. Hang them in numbers of thirteen in honor of the twelve disciples and Jesus Christ.

But don't worry, you will probably see military action from La Raza and friends. Until then, don't smoke so much kill at one time...

You are paranoid and delusional and you certainly are not Black.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I was clarifying my point in reference to a comment by Truthseeka implying that we should fear Mexican violence. The only reference he used for a history of violence was Aztec sacrefices. I simply dismissed that point as garbage.

Aw, come on.

Don't do me like that, playa. You know DAMN WELL I held off on the Aztec thing for a while in this thread. My point was not that they are going to be violent due to the Aztecs, my point was that Prophecy shouldn't pretend like the Mexicas are down-trodden people who deserve to be able to kill Americans.

You ALSO know that the Aztec thing was not in any way my reference to Mexican violence. You know that the first thing I mentioned was the Plan of San Diego. This is REAL; the radicals actually plan to kill all white males over 16. They have marches where they have pictures of whites AND blacks with their heads cut off!

And, you also know that this is not representative of all illegal aliens. But, just like a peaceful protest that a few hardheads can turn into a riot, this thing can get violent due to the rhetoric of a few radicals. And yes, Alberto Gonzales is in Mecha.

BTW, your avatar is sick! I always liked Zangief.

Originally posted by douglas2k4
@grimreaper797: You bring up valid points regarding Marting and Malcolm, but I have my opinion about Civil Rights, but that is for a whole other thread.

Malcom X instructs Black people to separate from white people and white people accuse him of "teaching hate".

Martin Luther King instructs Black people to love white people and white people sick dogs on Martin Luther King.

not totally correct prophecy, after he came back from mecca he denounced all the former racist thing he had said. from there he said he has no problem letting white people help, they just cant be part of the organization, solely because he felt before multiple races could unite his own race had to unite as one.

thats around the same time he also was booted from alijah muhhammed's(sp? sry) movement, and started to get watched seriously by the FBI. soon after that he got assassinated.

he taught that blacks could be part with whites because thats what he was taught until he made his pilgrimage where he found all people in islam(white and black) were getting along with eachother. he makes a speech about his trip and denounces any sort of hate against any race, including whites.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by douglas2k4

Also, the Native Americans didn't take over and murder most of the indenginous people of a continent.

because they were basically a stone age culture.....logisticly it was pretty much impossible for them to do so. The difference is Europeans were able to fight off the invasions from asia and the middle east....who were also able to fight off the invasions from us.

No, they were religious societies living in enormous extended families whose existence was spiritual and whose customs and conventions were deeply symbolic.

They were better people who did not deem the glittering conqueror beautiful.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
, after he came back from mecca he denounced all the former racist thing he had said. from there he said he has no problem letting white people help, they just cant be part of the organization, solely because he felt before multiple races could unite his own race had to unite as one.
thats around the same time he also was booted from alijah muhhammed's(sp? sry) movement, and started to get watched seriously by the FBI. soon after that he got assassinated.
he taught that blacks could be part with whites because thats what he was taught until he made his pilgrimage where he found all people in islam(white and black) were getting along with eachother. he makes a speech about his trip and denounces any sort of hate against any race, including whites.

Not quite correct reap.

He was suspended from ministerial duties for his comments about Kennedy's assassination.

It was his own decision to leave the NOI.

He was in the process of initiating guerilla warfare in the streets of the US just prior to his murder.

"There will be a hot time in the old town...with regret....with great regret. Now I am well aware of what I am setting into motion by what I'm saying up here tonight. I am well aware. But I have never said or done anything in my life that I wasn't prepared to suffer the consequences for." El Haj Malik El Shabazz (MX)

He was also trying to bring the US into the United Nations to face charges of genocide.

yes i know he was suspended and left on his own. but he was booted for the time being, so he decided not return. i also know it was because of the comment he made.

i also have on my computer every speech that was recorded. and he did denounce his racism. i never said he denounced violence, whether he was right to act such a way depends on your morals. but he DID denounce his racism toward white people which i stand by.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
yes i know he was suspended and left on his own. but he was booted for the time being, so he decided not return. i also know it was because of the comment he made.

i also have on my computer every speech that was recorded. and he did denounce his racism. i never said he denounced violence, whether he was right to act such a way depends on your morals. but he DID denounce his racism toward white people which i stand by.

I hope I have not given you the wrong impression reap.

I don't believe Minister Malcom ever hated white people in the first place.

He hated White Supremacy.

he believed that they could not co exist together. that they must not "combine" with the white people. this changed after he went to mecca.

originally he thought that white people were inheriently(sp?) evil because thats what he was taught when he was first introduced to the Nation of Islam. his teacher taught him that the white man was born evil and could never become a muslim because of this. he would always be evil.

once he went to mecca he found this wasnt true and changed his views about how to go about race from there. there was definately a race barrier where he disliked white people to say the least.

Yeah, Prophecy,

I was gonna respond to you, but, man, screw it. You seem to have a faint connection to reality, but if that's what works for you, fine. I got nothing else to say to you.

why not just make the struggling economic country of Mexico part of the U.S. i mean half the country is already hispanic of some descent already. lets be real here..there is giong to be no civil war of Mexicans verses Americans,,i mean its laughable,most Mexicans are only about three apples high.just kidding Mexicans hehehe trust me we need theses people just like we need the Italians, the Jews, the Germans or whoever you are....i have worked side by side with some good Mexicans and some bums...the same goes for Americans....all i can say is travel to a poor country once look around talk to the people,see how they live,wonder how you and your family would do there. I would talk to the people ,hoping that one day they would make it to the U.S. and get a piece of the dream...the dream...hehehe the dream is to actually make money for working thats it.not for the freedom though dont even think about it.its money. why do you think there is such a big need for check cashing places,who do you think frequent such establishments...hay neat they even got western union there...there sending money home.There planning to go home some day?who KNOWS. WHO cares there always going to be there hehehe live with it! I say Mexico U.S. unite as one eventually will suck up Canada and be one big stinking continental family.yay horay