massive disrespect

I have a hard time dealing with the disrespect of some of these threads, I am a veteran....I was in boot camp when 9/11 happened and i was in a school when the attack on the pentagon happened. Now i have seen some threads that try to say the attacks on 9/11 were a conspiracy, and that the plane never crashed into the pentagon. Now i know everyone is entitled to their opinion and im not necessarily judging anybody, but it is very insulting to hear these remarks. Especially from people who have had nothing to do with our government, I served in this war, I was injured and was honorably discharged after 4 faithfull years, I am a veteran, I deserve to say my peace, and it is a personal insult to me and our soldiers because we are not fighting this war for nothing. I think maybe if some of you had served in this war maybe you would have a different viewpoint, but you havent and you hide in front of your computerws trying to spread lies....I have taken all i can take whos with me.

Yes you do deserve to say your peace. And I think it is absolutely okay for you to feel offended.

But it won't stop the members from discussing their theories, so you should consider that point in deciding whether to stay or not, okay?

I, for one, would be very happy to see you be able to be a part of this community along side people you passionately disagree with. Because then you offer the facts, first hand knowledge, and experiences you bring with you.

I know i cant stop anybody from posting on the subject...i just wanted to rant, I enjoy the discussions on this site and will continue to post and discuss, i was just hoping that maybe some people would be more cautious thats all, and if anybody did have any questions from a military stand point i would be more than happy to oblige them.

Originally posted by caseythegeek21
I think maybe if some of you had served in this war maybe you would have a different viewpoint, but you havent and you hide in front of your computerws trying to spread lies....I have taken all i can take whos with me.

Well, it's a bit hard not to "hide" behind your computer when posting on an internet forum, is it not? Sir, how do we know you're not "hiding" behind a computer spreading lies? I'm not for one minute saying that you are, but you see where I'm coming from, right?

Does having an alternative view and not serving in this War automatically indicate a spreader of lies?

Yay! I'm very glad you will be staying.

Welcome to ATS. And on a personal note, thank you very much for the time you spent defending me. These days I'm having a very difficult time finding heroes for my hero book, so I'm glad to meet one who will actually be a long-term part of my life.

Just remember, on any theory presented and discussed here at ATS, you are never required to accept it, but then you are always expected to allow others to consider it. If you have facts to present in opposition (or to support) any given theory, please never hesitate to share those with as much supporting evidence as you can. It takes all views to have a worthwhile discussion.

Does having an alternative view and not serving in this War automatically indicate a spreader of lies?

No it doesnt, but when people are talking about something that really did happen, and trying to prove that it didnt, i find a little hard to swallow. As for me Im not hiding behind my computer spreading lies, i thought of it as good discussion matter, i think people just have to realize that tragedies will happen, I can speak from experience, i have seen plenty of war casualties come back home and i think it would be a shame if those people died for nothing. I think you bring up soem good points but its the facts that people are trying to dispute and i doent think thats right. But like valhall said peolpe are going to say what they want rgardless of what i say...I can only hope through discussion maybe i can help some people see the truth.

Originally posted by Code_Burger

Well, it's a bit hard not to "hide" behind your computer when posting on an internet forum, is it not? Sir, how do we know you're not "hiding" behind a computer spreading lies? I'm not for one minute saying that you are, but you see where I'm coming from, right?

Does having an alternative view and not serving in this War automatically indicate a spreader of lies?

While I agree that thegeek's statement is abrasive, I also have to say (both to you and him) that being offended by another person's statement is a decision that resides with the offended. In other words, I've chosen not to be offended because I've considered he simply doesn't know what he's talking about at this point. He's made a snap decision that people who have theories he doesn't agree with are spreading lies.

My decision is to dismiss that unfounded statement and hope that as he looks into certain discussion here he will see that his original judgment of ATS members was wrong.

In hindsite iI do Apologize for calling some members of ATS liers, I meant no disrespect, but i also hope that people can see where I'm coming from, you know being a veteran isnt always easy, I have had to deal with protests, anti war demonstrations, and the like. Discussion can spur belief, I have first hand knowledge of the war because i was there. All iwas trying to do was incite discussion so people can see the view of someone who believes in this war and thatAmerica needs to fight back fro the tragedies that have occured, I formally apologize if i judged to early but i was angry at some of the statements and I bieleve i have every right to that.

Originally posted by caseythegeek21
I have a hard time dealing with the disrespect of some of these threads,

I understand. Hopefully, I can help you gain a little more understanding about the nature of these discussions.

I am a veteran....I was in boot camp when 9/11 happened
>snip<
I was injured and was honorably discharged after 4 faithfull years, I am a veteran

Thank you for a personal sacrifice few are brave enough to consider, and even fewer are able to comprehend.

Now i have seen some threads that try to say the attacks on 9/11 were a conspiracy, and that the plane never crashed into the pentagon. Now i know everyone is entitled to their opinion and im not necessarily judging anybody, but it is very insulting to hear these remarks. Especially from people who have had nothing to do with our government,

First, try to understand that many of us here take no joy in stating these claims and forming these hard-thought opinions. The idea that there may be less-then-honorable motives throughout various government and military departments can be a very difficult things to come to terms with... especially for the first time.

There are a vast myriad of questions regarding the events, individuals, remarks, and "official line" surrounding the tragedy of 9/11, both in the months and years leading up to the event, and in the events and policies that followed. Many of us here, through age or ability, are unable to take the brave step you took to defend what you believe. However, we still feel compelled to do something.

A truly democratic society will have high standards of accountability in all facets of governance. The founding fathers of this nation, and many honorable public servants following in their footsteps, understood this and fashioned policies and procedures to ensure in an effort to ensure the governance is by and for the people. Accountability is only achieved through asking hard questions when the facts do not add up.

If our hard questions surround 9/11 are answered with honest credibility and there is indeed no conspiracy, we will walk away and focus on other issues. But in fact, unfortunately the hard questions of the "Internet conspiracy theory community" only seem to be uncovering more hard questions. No one wants it to be this way. We hope our questions lead to logical non-conspiratorial explanations. But they're not, and accountability then becomes a concern.

I deserve to say my peace, and it is a personal insult to me and our soldiers because we are not fighting this war for nothing.

I'm very sorry you feel that way. Unfortunately, there are far too many examples of military aggression (not just U.S., but any militarized nation) used to further political agendas of the leading elite.

I think maybe if some of you had served in this war maybe you would have a different viewpoint, but you havent and you hide in front of your computerws trying to spread lies.

Yes, Unfortunately, there are a great deal of "conspiracy websites" that make up sensationalized conspiracies based on lies and deception in an effort to promote unethical motives. Most of those will focus on one particular aspect of their conspiracies and spew venom and hatred to anyone who might disagree. We don't go there. Instead we promote and embrace all sides of a potential conspiracy. This is the only way to uncover the truth. It might be painful to observe some of the blatant exaggerations and even lies, but here they do not go unchallenged.

Thank you for your post. I hope this helps you understand a little more of what we're trying to do.

I feel where you are coming from on this casey, while I have not served in this war, I feel that people who are trying to prove 9/11 was a conspiracy are next to 'looney toons'.

I mean think about it, on the one hand they claim the US government is the most diabolical mastermind and orchestrated the whole thing so bush(for some reason) can declare war on terrorists and "steal oil" (which he did promise would pay for the war with iraqi oil, but I dont see that happening, the political opposition would have a fiasco with that)

yet, on the other hand, the government cannot pull their head out of their rears to evacuate new orleans after katrina, which of course is a bush incompetence, hate for blacks, conspiracy what have you.

I am suddenly reminded of "FEMA concentration camps"

you will notice some popular things on these boards, next to some actual good stuff.

1. hate or dislike of america or its foreign policy
2. hate of God or religion.
3. and some really crazy theories


[edit on 26-3-2006 by XphilesPhan]

[edit on 26-3-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Thank you for your insight, I never thought of it that way...Now about the actions taken around those dates some of them i dont even agree with, And good ol' G.W. is evern being investigated for some of them, but we are at war and direction or no direction we are fighting people are dying. I appreciate the fact that you took enough time to explain for alot of the people here. LIke i said to Valhall i mean no disrespect i was just mad. I think now the discussion can lead to other avenues, like questions and policy review, but thank you for your input. I look forward to many discussions wth you.

God bless you casey. I think I can understand how you feel. No sane person would want to suspect that their government would lie to them --- much less orchestrate or participate in an attack on their own people. I remember how my dad (an officer in the US Army and WW2 veteran) was crushed when the Watergate scandal broke.

The fact is, casey, we know the government has and does lie to us. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that the official report of the 911 Commission is incomplete, inaccurate or a cover-up. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that the FEMA/NIST report of the building collapses is incomplete, inaccurate or a cover-up. There are innumerable questions of significant importance (e.g., the airline stock puts leading up to 9/11) that have yet to be answered completely.

To not fully investigate the events surrounding September 11th is the ultimate act of disrespect --- to you, to me, to our children and most of all to The Constitution. There are people who are pointing fingers already. Personally, I don't feel that is constructive or fair. We need to look at the evidence --- ALL of the evidence. It needs to be investigated by independent experts in a completely transparent forum. The results of that investigation, I believe, will lead us to the individuals involved.

Keep in mind, although the government assured us on 9/12 that they had identified the hijackers, most of those individuals have since turned up alive and with water-tight alibis. Yet the hijacker list has not been ammended.

Casey, something is awfully wrong. And we owe it to everything that is fundamental to this country to get to the bottom of it and as quickly as possible. There is no disrespect in that. Yes you will read opinions --- on both sides of the arguments --- that are emotional and often outrageous. But if you take the time to look at the issues with an open mind, it will be impossible to not come away with the feeling that something is missing in the official explanations. Something is just not quite right. And as a nation, for our own good, we need to find out what that is.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I feel where you are coming from on this casey, while I have not served in this war, I feel that people who are trying to prove 9/11 was a conspiracy are next to 'looney toons'.

I mean think about it, on the one hand they claim the US government is the most diabolical mastermind and orchestrated the whole thing so bush(for some reason) can declare war on terrorists and "steal oil" (which he did promise would pay for the war with iraqi oil, but I dont see that happening, the political opposition would have a fiasco with that)

Thanks for your input Xphiles, but i dont think their looney tunes, But i do agree with you that they need a little more facts than just some half cooked theories.
Now on another hand yes i did fight in the war, but I dont agree with everything Bush does, I dont even like bush, i just chose to fight because i love america. Now Bush really does have some answering to do, but i Dont think well ever get those answers unless a full scale investigation comes through.....And you know what i dont get, Clinton got impeached cause he got some head, but the government turns a blind eye when the Bush administration ignores congress....I dont know sounds a little screwy to me, but anyway thats a whole other can of worms. I also found your comments on FEMA hilarious, keep up the good work.

[Mod Edit: Tag correction - Jak]

[edit on 26/3/06 by JAK]

I wholeheartedly agree with you jtma, I think that this country would benefit from an investigation from an unbiase source...Like i said before i didnt fight in the war for nothing. Some of the ways the 9/11 tragedy was investigated was a little shady to me as well, we lost many good fireman and policeman when maybe those casualties could have been avoided. As for the terrorists, I thought somem of them were detained, I know they havent gotten them all but many have been arrested. Theres alot of shady things this government has done but i believe well come out stronger in the end.

I came across as a little more defensive than I intended, Valhall. I didn't mean any disrespect, Caseythegeek.

I think you bring up soem good points but its the facts that people are trying to dispute and i doent think thats right. But like valhall said peolpe are going to say what they want rgardless of what i say...I can only hope through discussion maybe i can help some people see the truth.

The problem is the facts, as they have been labelled, came from ever more questionable sources. If someone, or a group of people working either together, or separately, have identified massive flaws and errors in the Official story (which in my mind I am certain they have), then should they not present them? Why don't you think it's right to do that? Surely it's in everyone best interests? I don't doubt that if you are speaking from experience that that counts for something, I'm sure you have learned a lot from it, but perhaps, through discussion, some people can help you see the truth, Caseythegeek21.


Edit: Punctuation


[edit on 26-3-2006 by Code_Burger]

Originally posted by caseythegeek21
, I am a veteran....I was in boot camp when 9/11 happened and i was in a school when the attack on the pentagon happened.

Sorry, but ya lost me here. Was you in school or boot camp? I thought both alledged attacks happened on the same day.

What unit did you serve in, and where were you posted. I do have an intrest here because my son has been out there too.

I dont claim to know the truth, I think that i do have more infromation than most because i was indirectly involved, but if you take a look at some of the threads from "a plane didnt crash into the pentagon" thenm maybe youll see why i got upset. There were people trying disprove the actual event...it happened!!! i dont get why their trying to disprove it. Any way i seriuosly doubt that many of those people are scientists or physicists, so i dont think they can disassemble this event. Im just trying to say that yes there are concerns with the reports that were written, but the actual event happened that s all im trying to say.

Originally posted by Bikereddie

Sorry, but ya lost me here. Was you in school or boot camp? I thought both alledged attacks happened on the same day.

I was in bootcamp when the planes hit the towers, and no they didnt happen on the same day. sorry i didnt capitalize A...I was In "A" school ( my hospital corpsman school) when the pentagon crash happend.

as far as division, i was a hospital corpsman with the 3rd marine division out of camp pendleton in oceanside, Ca....do you want to question my credibility further.

[edit on 26/3/06 by JAK]

Just because you HONORABLY serve your government, does not mean that your government HONORABLY serves you.

Your ignorance about the motives and actions of the US Government is understandable because as a GI you are taught to obey orders and not to question. The rest of us are still free to think for ourselves and form our own opinions.

I would like know how many soldiers think they are helping the Government of the United States and how many think they are helping the Citizens of the United States. There is a huge difference. What is good for the government, is not necessarily good for the citizens.

Originally posted by caseythegeek21

I was in bootcamp when the planes hit the towers, and no they didnt happen on the same day. sorry i didnt capitalize A...I was In "A" school ( my hospital corpsman school) when the pentagon crash happend.

as far as division, i was a hospital corpsman with the 3rd marine division out of camp pendleton in oceanside, Ca....do you want to question my credibility further.

No they didn't happen on the same day? I was under the impression that they did...