Immigration laws to start civil war?

Once again if the only problem is the legal issue why not change the laws to make it easier for people to come in as immigrants? Why force them to wait? It's not just illegal immigrants you guys have a problem with it's immigrants in general. You may not want to admit it but when you get down to it thats the root issue. You don't like foreigners and you want to control the flow of foreigners so that only those you deem suitably nonforeign gain access. Call a spade a spade.

There really is nothing else to say it's all been said before thousands of times over hundreds of years of our history. There have always been immigrant communities and they have always been insular enclaves where the mother tongue is spoken more frequently then English. Nothing has changed. The only reason there's a "crisis" now is because certain regions of the country that never really dealt with immigration are now having to come to terms with something they've never encountered before. To you it's a crisis to us it's old hat. I'm not a politician so I'm not going to pander to you quite frankly all I can tell you is deal with it

Originally posted by boogyman
Once again if the only problem is the legal issue why not change the laws to make it easier for people to come in as immigrants? Why force them to wait? It's not just illegal immigrants you guys have a problem with it's immigrants in general. You may not want to admit it but when you get down to it thats the root issue. You don't like foreigners and you want to control the flow of foreigners so that only those you deem suitably nonforeign gain access. Call a spade a spade.

Up until the sentence you started saying "you guys" I agreed. I don't know who "you guys" are. Seriously.

Nothing has changed. The only reason there's a "crisis" now is because certain regions of the country that never really dealt with immigration are now having to come to terms with something they've never encountered before. To you it's a crisis to us it's old hat.

The problem is, things have changed. Take the change over 10 years in California for example:

Source
In hosting America's largest population of illegal immigrants, California bears a huge cost to provide basic human services for this fast growing, low-income segment of its population. A new study from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) examines the costs of education, health care and incarceration of illegal aliens, and concludes that the costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year.
...
Looking at the costs of education, health care and incarceration for illegal aliens in 1994, the Urban Institute estimated that California was subsidizing illegal immigrants to the tune of about $1.1 billion. The enormous rise in the costs of illegal immigrants over the intervening ten years is due to the rapid growth in illegal residents. It is reasonable to expect those costs to continue to soar if action is not taken to turn the tide.

Sorry, this isn't a "just deal with it" situation. Legislatively, this is not "old hat;" this is one of the first major immigration reforms in a decade. I agree with an earlier poster, we have backed ourselves into a corner. The "crisis" is economic, not xenophobic.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
No, when a species is invade by foreigners that pillage and plunder its social systems, wealth, and way of life then you have war! I don't care how messed up Mexico is, that is not my nor the USA’s problem. Let the people of Mexico fix their own country instad of screwing ours.

They don't have some god given right to Illegally waltz in here because their poor excuse for a country just so happens to be next to ours. If they want to come in here then they should get in line behind the millions of others who are waiting to legally enter the US.

Very true. Try that in the mideast, and it would definitely be grounds for a war.

You have voted WestPoint23 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I agree with boogy. Should just learn to deal with it.
They are not going anywhere.

All this talk about closeing the borders and such sounds like your from the 1930's or something.
What happened to a unified earth?

Are any of these illegal people actually causing you any harm ? I dont think so.

All of this money that the goverment is spending ? Are you kidding me...LOL ! Like anyone would ever see a penny of that money or ANY change at all if the goverment had more money.

This is for all of those who are saying stuff about the other immagrants. Yes there are other immagrants, but they don't number the amount of Illegal Mexicans comming accross the Southern border everyday. It is estimated that 10-15,000 Illegal Mexicans(people comming from Mexico) stream over the border each day. 10,000 people. Don't tell to live with it. Its gotten to the point where if it keeps up, in 10 years the entire state of Arizona will will be 75% Illegal Mexicans, thats if we don't do anything. The people on the East Coast, don't have the problem like the Southwest states have. Let 3 million Illegal Mexicans come live in your state, and see how fast the areas turn to slumps. Then maybe you will see what we have to deal with.
Today to prove my point I will go out and photograph some of the places that the Illegal Mexicans have settled down into. Then you shall see how bad it has gotten.

Round them up.................put a chip in their arm, deport them ALL. If they return illegally again. Execute them on terroristic grounds. That stands for ALL illegals in this country not just mexicans. Irish in Kennedys compound in Mass..........Chinese in San Fransico cooking food..........Nigerians in Houston scaming creditcards..............everyone "except" Cuban's. They has a special law............

GET OUT..............GO HOME.................any politician that does not support such action..........GET OUT of politics............Your Finished.........

posted by Amethyst: “Most of my ancestors colonized this country BEFORE it was a country . . Some of my ancestors came from Germany in the early 18th century . . some went to Canada after the revolution because they were loyalists . . I supposedly have Cherokee ancestors . . my roots run deep here . . “

Well, that’s all well and good, Amethyst, but there is just one thing we can be sure of: we all came from somewhere. The estimated 7 million Native Americans here in 1607 were beaten down by disease and policy until in the 1900 census, they numbered barely 300,000. Not by evil design, but just by ignorance and greed. The 5 million slaves in 1865 have grown to 26 million and we still cannot resolve the problem of race in America. Every public issue has a race component. It is America’s millstone. Will we ever overcome the evil legacy of slavery?

Q. Have you ever considered the impact the Little Ice Age had on European emigration to North America?

“ . . On my father's side . . great-grandparents came LEGALLY from Russia and Poland. Before 1965 or thereabouts there was a limit as to how many people from what country could come here. This is our country, and we have every right to limit who enters! . .

Limits on immigration are short-sighted. For economic reasons, immigrants self-select as the BEST of where they come from. Free Market Theory. They must be courageous, resourceful and industrious. Perhaps of greater consequence, they must have hope, faith and a grand vision of the future! SHIFT: For whatever it is worth, it is an old English concept not universally shared, that a person O W N S the land he has a deed to, FOREVER, including the ground beneath his feet to the center of the Earth and the space over his head to the end of the Universe. For feudalism, that worked ok. But feudalism is over. I think.

Most native people - we often disparagingly call them aboriginal - considered themselves to be STEWARDS of the land. They could USE it but not DESTROY it. They were SECURE only in the space they occupied. They can only hold the land they can use. For their own lifetime. The resources beneath the surface were commonly held property. In the THIRD MILLENNIUM, and our planet’s population certain to reach 8 billion before it levels off, (IF we can keep the Pope and Evangelicals quiet) this concept sounds much better for the SURVIVAL of the human race in the long term. The issue comes down to SELFISHNESS versus SELFLESSNESS. I offer you the 20th century as the epochal picture of the former.

“ . . Fox doesn't have any say as to what kind of fence we put up along the border . . illegals sure don't have a legitimate say because they're not Americans. I live in Ohio and I'm sick of having to select a language at the ATM. One time I hit the wrong button . . good thing I knew enough Spanish to complete my transaction! [Edited by Don W]

Oh, life is so complicated. Pres. Fox is often touted here as the first democratically elected president of Mexico. (Forgetting Benito Juarez.) And I like Fox, too, but let’s face it, the Mexicans have had so many betrayals of leadership that it makes you want to cry. (I'm thinking Francisco Pancho Villa.) Some of it internal and some of it caused by external factors. In any case, as an elected official, Pres. Fox has to speak to his constituency. Why castigate him for that? SOMEONE must speak of the HUMAN RIGHTS of transient persons. Do you know 300+ illegals die or are murdered each year crossing our southern border because we won’t let them in legally? 300.

Shame on any nation that FEELS it must build a wall. Do you not know a wall may keep people OUT but that it also can keep people IN? FURTHERMORE, I do not want a BERLIN WALL on the southern border - or on any border for that matter. As I wrote elsewhere, what do YOU want? Retired East German VOPOS to man the KILL zone? Don’t forget, it was America that “invented” or adopted the “free fire zone” concept in Vietnam.

In America, land of the free and home of the brave, we are now building a POLICE STATE. I for one would rather run the risk a madman like Osama can hit us from time to time, but let’s make that a crime and leave it up to the police to stop or catch him. CANCEL this fiasco passed off on us as the War on Terrorism! I see it as the ESTABLISHMENT of the Fahrenheit 451 concept of governance.

[edit on 3/27/2006 by donwhite]

From the language being used on this thread it seemas that the ones who would start the violece that would lead to a civil war wouldn't be the illegal immigrants, but the people who want them out.

By the way, the "they're taking our Jobs" line is getting really old. Does anyone remember when white people used it to maintain segregation? It's just a way for society to remain stagnant, rather than change.

And to those of you who feel that because your ancestors desimated an existing populous through disease murder and infestation, you are in any way better than anyone who just got off the plane, shame. This is the kind of thinking that has gotten millions of people killed through prejudice and racism.

Sorry, I bet some of your best friends are legal immigrants.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
From the language being used on this thread it seemas that the ones who would start the violece that would lead to a civil war wouldn't be the illegal immigrants, but the people who want them out.

OMG "bellringerboy" your right.......the 330 million "legal" residents of this country are just haters and should step aside and let the illegals run things,

to save peace and avoid civil war off course.

The immigration laws should be passed.Illegal immigration is out of control. Period

Originally posted by thermopolis
OMG "bellringerboy" your right.......the 330 million "legal" residents of this country are just haters and should step aside and let the illegals run things,

to save peace and avoid civil war off course.

Did I ever say that "illegals" should run things? To be perfectly honest, I don't think the people who are running things right now should run things. I'm sure there was this kind of stink put up before slaves were freed, again before they were allowed to become citizens, and then again before getting the right to vote. "Are the legal citizens of this country going to step aside and let the n****** run things?" As you can plainly see that didn't ruin the fabric of our existence, did it?

Rasobasi,go to a south American country and look at the corruption,poverty,et cetera, and then come back and tell me if that is the future you want for the United States.

[edit on 27-3-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Obviously now it is, so lets try to fix this problem shall we.

Yeah I know how to fix the problem, send the National Guard to the border and deport all illegal immigrants back to where they came from, and we can fund this by fining anyone and everyone who hires an illegal immigrant, there our problem is solved.

If there are any God given rights, they would be to live free, have food in your belly, and not fear that your next day will be your last, or your childrens last. I'm sure that God given rights extend to everyone, not just Americans. And I'm sure God doesn't look down on the world and see the borders that we do.

I am more then willing to share the great success of the US with others as long as they come in through the front door and legally enter this country. I am not however willing to suffer because 20 million illegal immigrants who feel they are entitled to our wealth sneak into the US.

If legal immigrants are ok but "illegal" immigrants are not why not just simplify matters and get rid of the laws that make them illegal in the first place?

One that is appeasement, and its not solving or addressing the real problem. Second we should not be rewarding someone who just broke our laws. What if half of Mexico wants to come to the US should we simply allow that? Do you know what a huge uncontrolled influx of immigrants does to a region and to a country?

By the way, the "they're taking our Jobs" line is getting really old. Does anyone remember when white people used it to maintain segregation? It's just a way for society to remain stagnant, rather than change.

Oh yeah it’s old eh? Are you willing to work for 5 $ an hour with no health insurance or benefits to compete with an illegal immigrant who is? Will you be the one to tell a father who just got fired from his job and who now can’t support his family that “they’re taking our jobs” is old? Will you be the one to tell Americans that they now have to suffer and work for dirt-poor prices if they want to maintain their jobs?
Will you be the one to tell them they need to stop complaining because they are racists who don’t want change? Next time you open you mouth and claim something you have not experienced you better make a damn better case then “just deal with it.”

posted by SpeakerofTruth: “ . . go to a South American country . . look at the corruption, poverty, et cetera, then come back and tell me if that is the future you want for the United States. [Edited by Don W]

Look, S/o/T, the poor DO NOT RUN THOSE COUNTRIES. You have brought up a very good point, but you are looking in the wrong places for the bogey man. Poor people DO NOT BRIBE public officials. Poor people do not own the hovels they live in. Your instincts seem OK, but you have been brain-washed to blame the victims.

Re-think your conclusions in this instance, S/o/T. It is the poor who make up 99% of the ILLEGAL immigrants to America, to ESCAPE the conditions imposed from the top down. By the R&Fs. The Rich and Famous.

[edit on 3/27/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Oh yeah it’s old eh? Are you willing to work for 5 $ an hour with no health insurance or benefits to compete with an illegal immigrant who is? Will you be the one to tell a father who just got fired from his job and who now can’t support his family that “they’re taking our jobs” is old? Will you be the one to tell Americans that they now have to suffer and work for dirt-poor prices if they want to maintain their jobs?
Will you be the one to tell them they need to stop complaining because they are racists who don’t want change? Next time you open you mouth and claim something you have not experienced you better make a damn better case then “just deal with it.”

I fix computers. My job could be outsourced to India or China at the drop of a hat. That's legal and I have to deal with that. How? I get better at my job. I make myself absolutely vital to the opperations of the company. If my job went to India, I wouldn't be putting the blame on the Indians.

I have lost jobs to people willing to work for less, and I have been the one willing to work for less. Rather than put the blame on the people, put it where it belongs, on the system that keeps us where we are, and them where they are.

As for South and Central American countries living in squaller, it's not because of the people, it's because of the governments. And many of those in power are there because of the good ol' USA. If you are going to place blame turn on CSPAN.

By the way, you have done little to convince me that your train of thought is very different than people blaming blacks for not being employed during the reconstruction era.

has another example of the wierd ...dualistic or hypocritical or puropsly being ignored....federal and state acceptance of illegal alliens in America....www.alipac.us...

what is the purpose for the govts refusal to accept the growing problem of illegal immigration and to ..basicaly to condone this (condone: to forgive, overlook,or disregard without protest or censure)
the ONLY way it makes sense, is that there is some type of alterior motive for this ....................we all trust the govt...right......was that a pin that just dropped

Originally posted by thermopolis
Round them up.................put a chip in their arm, deport them ALL. If they return illegally again. Execute them on terroristic grounds. That stands for ALL illegals in this country not just mexicans. Irish in Kennedys compound in Mass..........Chinese in San Fransico cooking food..........Nigerians in Houston scaming creditcards..............everyone "except" Cuban's. They has a special law............

GET OUT..............GO HOME.................any politician that does not support such action..........GET OUT of politics............Your Finished.........

Wow Thermopolis, Way to expand your horizons there, Now I ask you this, Are you Native American Indian? If you're not then I suggest you learn a little humility, This country was founded by immigrants.. Dont be a dolt..

The immigrants in question here are the ones that help keep this country running, They cook your meals, pick your fruits and vegetables, build your houses, remove your trash and do many many other jobs..

If it wasnt for immigrants America wouldnt be around, So just calm yourself, dont be a dramatic fool..

Just a quick edit, Alot of the older of these illegals have American citizens for children that are currently serving the USA in the armed services and are fighting in Iraq for the same man that is trying to oust their parents..

This is not the way to go about this, Im sure there has to be some way to help these people who want to make something of themselves, They're frightened and yes they usually stick together with people of their own race, Why, because they trust them, usually because they're in the same situation they are.. This WILL NOT help the "War on Terrorism" this is Bush wanting to make this country one big jail cell, Lets build huge walls around the country and not let anyone in or out! Yeah that's a good idea..

All he needs is a little moustache and he'll be in good shape..

[edit on 27-3-2006 by Ox]

Technically there is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant" because to be an immigrant, by definition, is to be here legally.
Who has changed the topic line from "illegal alien" to something that offers more acceptance , ie immmigrant (heck- we're all immigrants!)?
Its a professional presentation of someones view of the news...

Don't forget you anglosaxon invaders that you aren't the real native americans.
I neither agree with a quote saying that they would profit from the American system. The fed reserve prints as much money as they want and they control all markets with those flows of petro-dollars. Look at the american debt, you country doesn"t care, and that is what make all thoses poor people from poor countries to come and get a wealthier life. What would you do I you were living in such a country, would you be interested in the American dream if your children and starving, off course you would. Keep also in mind that the American system is creating these inequalities with their policies, so creating the problem. Imagine all those rich guys not even knowing what to do with their wealth,and overconsuming. Think about B Gates, and fellow top rich men. Could you spend 60B $, I couldn't. Imagine all thoses people not even making 100$ a month, without access to water,electricity,education and health. We live in an unfair world dominated by the American-War-Economy, or the war-kapitalism.

If I hear one more person say they work jobs that we don't want to I'm going to scream.

They (illegal immigrants) have virtually destroyed the blue colar worker. A factory worker used to enjoy a working wage that was $16-18 per hour and benefits. Now because of cheap illegal alien labor they make between $6-8 an hour with no benefits. Sure, a illegal immigrant living 10-1 5 people in one house may be able to live this way. But the average American family could never survive on those wages.

Illegal immigration is OUT OF CONTROL! In 1965 the USA would only allow 170,000 immigrants per year. Which worked out well because that is about how many left a year. Now its millions per year and they aren't leaving. Also, back in those days people learned English to live here and adapted to our culture. Now they refuse to learn English and try to impose their culture on us. If you want to be an American then by GOD learn the language!.

Do you realize if the rate of growth continues by 2030 we could have an estimated 200-600 million population. Where will the water come from? Where will the land come from? Where will the money to pay for the roads to be made and repaired? Most of them do not pay taxes.

200-600 million people will be like living in China. Soon we will be in a 3rd world quagmire with over population like China because they don't use birth control and slowly the entire family makes it out here.

They are bankrupting America. Virtually every tax payer funded program has and or will be bankrupt..ie. hospitals, prisons school...... and on and on.
They like to come here and have an "anchor baby" each baby costs the American taxpayer $8,000, then each child they have costs the American taxpayer $7,000 per child a year. I won't even go into the prisons wich cost about $47,000 (per imate) a year to keep behind bars. Btw, Americans paying these bills is a violation of the 14th amendment (don't believe me - look it up).

Civil war. You bet. I can see it coming. President Fox urges Mexicans to come over illegally. He also urges them to someday rise against us and take back what they feel belongs to them. That is parts of the wouthwest and includes parts of Colorado.

This is a bigger problem than most people could have ever imagined. They are invading us from within and it will be the undoing of America.

Don't get me wrong....I have no problem with LEGAL IMMIGRATION!


I think all illegals shouls be deported back to where they came from and a ten year moritoruim on ANY immigration to the US should be imposed.

Send em back. Make English the official language. Give them birth control and food and let Mexico fix it's own problems instead of making them ours.


Anyone who doesn't think it's a problem is sadly misinformed and should do a lot more research.



[edit on 27-3-2006 by MauiStacey]