Immigration laws to start civil war?

When a species no longer has any resources in one place it migrates to another. This is how mankind has survived for millions of years. If anyone is naive enough to think that "government" is going to halt millions of years of evolution, they re mistaken. As long as there are resources available here people are going to migrate here by any means that will work, illegally or legally. It's survival.

No, when a species is invade by foreigners that pillage and plunder its social systems, wealth, and way of life then you have war! I don't care how messed up Mexico is, that is not my nor the USA’s problem. Let the people of Mexico fix their own country instad of screwing ours.

They don't have some god given right to Illegally waltz in here because their poor excuse for a country just so happens to be next to ours. If they want to come in here then they should get in line behind the millions of others who are waiting to legally enter the US.

It's survival

You got that right, it is about survival, too bad not all Americans understand this.

[edit on 26-3-2006 by WestPoint23]

All we need to do is send a bill(education, healthcare, etc.) to the Mexican government for the cost of the non legal immigrants. Then I say come to America. Or at least Mexico should allow Americans to go to Mexico for free healthcare and education. I understand why people want to better thier lives, but if I get less services from my government; because of someone that is not hear legally that is stealing.

"Immigration rights advocates"

Quite a few of the articles I've read, have used this term in describing the demonstrators. It's not correct.
It would have been more correct to say "illegal immigrants and their supporters".

I really don't care who you are, or where you come from. Come in legally, and I welcome you.
Sneak over, and remain undocumented? I hope the BAN-Hammer of the INS comes down on you. My tax dollars would rather buy you a bus ticket.

I don't believe it will start a civil war in the sense that a civil war is a war between the citizens of a nation having two different ideals.

The immigration laws will set into motion a conflict between Mexico and the US.

You can count a revolution out. A revolution would be a revolt against the government by its citizens, which is something that will never happen given the circumstances that the people is our government.

I believe that we should not only focus on illegal Latinos. We should focus on all illegal nationalities, whether they be from friendly nations or not.

The question to them should be: Where are your documents and what is your purpose here? If they can't produce any documents then the next question should be: Why have you not been documented? Then it's off to be immediately deported. No other questions will be needed.

No civilized culture can absorb 20 or 30 million people of different cultures that have not assimilated its language and customs and do it over a ten year period and keep the collective conscious that unifies it. This bullsh*t about multiculturalism being a good thing is just that , it is the things that people share in common that bind them and the same is true of nations.

Illegals dont do any damage, thats why there are so many and that is why its allowed. They are peacful, all the want to do is make money for there families, and dance alot. But I think the protest were wrong. If I was an illegal in another country I would not protest. Its just common sense first of all, and it could bring this goverment smashing down on them like kysar Sose said.

Also, when I was watching the protest on tv(spanish) a white person was barking out orders for the people to call clinton.

I dont know why people get so mad, all they want to do is help thier families. I watch the news on spanish channels all the time and I hope it does not turn into the revolts they have in countries there. If it does it wont be pretty. And I think I will take some of my loved ones and move to canada.

And who ever said the east coast dosnt have a problem has no idea what they are talking about.

The “illegal’s” in the US are primarily Mexicans. Mexicans became “illegal” after the US took the states of New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, part of Colorado and all of California from Mexico in 1846. When the US ran short of labor, we looked the other way when Mexicans came north to work. When we did not need laborers, we “closed” the border. The population explosion in Central America is driving literally millions of people to seek work where it is. The U S of A. In all those years, NOT ONE MEXICAN HAS BEEN ARRESTED FOR AN ACT OF TERRORISM.

IF we wanted to STOP the influx of low cost labor, we could do it in a day! Impose a $25,000 a day fine on EMPLOYERS of undocumented workers. Grant amnesty to any illegal worker who turns himself in to the ICE. Divide the fines with the workers. In one day, no more illegal workers. BUT we Americans would find ourselves in DEEP trouble. Food costs would rise 15%-20% at once. Other low skilled jobs would go unfilled. Lawn work, car washes, other so-called menial labor.

Sorry, folks, we have PAINTED ourselves into a corner. We can’t live with them, we can’t live without them. Let’s give them a Green Card and MOVE ON.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
You can count a revolution out. A revolution would be a revolt against the government by its citizens, which is something that will never happen given the circumstances that the people is our government.

Not to hijack my own thread, but this is an arguable point. I disagree that our government is the people anymore; we live in a representative democratic republic. The truth of the matter is that we may elect people to fulfill our wishes, but that does not guarantee action. More and more people are realizing they have no control apart from their one (seemingly useless) vote, and if antagonistic events happened do you think no one would act?

Back to the main subject, what I was hoping people would respond to is the possibility of outside forces exacerbating a peaceful situation into a violent one. We all see these demonstrations going by without violence (thankfully), but if these laws are passed the demonstrations won’t stop. Hopefully they would remain peaceful, but who’s to say they would? And what’s stopping some radicalized group from going in and stirring up trouble? It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen it.

My problem is that we’ve allowed (and profited from) the creation of a new subclass of people. They are our lifetime’s indentured servants and they want rights too, but unlike indentured servants of the old I don’t think they deserve the automatic rights they ask for.

The question is not is this a problem; it is how do we fix this problem? I agree that legislation is doing too much in one fell swoop and the problem needs to be addressed in phases. Those phases I do not know.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
No, when a species is invade by foreigners that pillage and plunder its social systems, wealth, and way of life then you have war!

True, when animals incroach on claimed territory then there is often conflict. Usually that conflict consosts mostly on bluffing and some sort of display. Neither the incroaching animal, nor the one defending want to damage themselves, it's too dangerous.

I don't care how messed up Mexico is, that is not my nor the USA’s problem.

Obviously now it is, so lets try to fix this problem shall we.

Let the people of Mexico fix their own country instad of screwing ours.

Well, that doesn't seem to be working. Right now we would do well to help them save their own country so they don't "screw" ours, as you so delicately put it. I'm sure you don't think the Mexican people are screwing up our country. I'll let that go as a poor choice of words.

They don't have some god given right to Illegally waltz in here because their poor excuse for a country just so happens to be next to ours. If they want to come in here then they should get in line behind the millions of others who are waiting to legally enter the US.

If there are any God given rights, they would be to live free, have food in your belly, and not fear that your next day will be your last, or your childrens last. I'm sure that God given rights extend to everyone, not just Americans. And I'm sure God doesn't look down on the world and see the borders that we do.

The U S of A. In all those years, NOT ONE MEXICAN HAS BEEN ARRESTED FOR AN ACT OF TERRORISM.

IF we wanted to STOP the influx of low cost labor, we could do it in a day! Impose a $25,000 a day fine on EMPLOYERS of undocumented workers. Grant amnesty to any illegal worker who turns himself in to the ICE. Divide the fines with the workers. In one day, no more illegal workers. BUT we Americans would find ourselves in DEEP trouble. Food costs would rise 15%-20% at once. Other low skilled jobs would go unfilled. Lawn work, car washes, other so-called menial labor.

Sorry, folks, we have PAINTED ourselves into a corner. We can’t live with them, we can’t live without them. Let’s give them a Green Card and MOVE ON.

Agreed white!
great thoughts!

PS: I am a gringo in case any one wants to know. A mut to be exact, half Italian half Irish.



[edit on 26-3-2006 by imbalanced]


[edit on 26-3-2006 by imbalanced]

Most of my ancestors colonized this country BEFORE it was a country--they came to Connecticut and Virginia.

Some more of my ancestors came here from Germany to New York in the early 18th century, and some went on to Canada after the revolution because they were loyalists (on Grandpa's side...on Grandma's side they were on the American side).

I supposedly have Cherokee ancestors. So my roots run deep here.

On my birth father's side, I had a set of great-grandparents who came here LEGALLY, from Russia and Poland.

Before 1965 or thereabouts there was a limit as to how many people from what country could come here.

This is our country, and we have every right to limit who enters! Fox doesn't have any kind of say as to what kind of fence we put up along the border, and illegals sure don't have a legitimate say, because they're not Americans.

I live in Ohio and I'm sick of having to select a language at the ATM. One time I hit the wrong button...good thing I knew enough Spanish to complete my transaction!

Originally posted by Amethyst
Most of my ancestors colonized this country BEFORE it was a country--they came to Connecticut and Virginia.

Some more of my ancestors came here from Germany to New York in the early 18th century, and some went on to Canada after the revolution because they were loyalists (on Grandpa's side...on Grandma's side they were on the American side).

I supposedly have Cherokee ancestors. So my roots run deep here.

On my birth father's side, I had a set of great-grandparents who came here LEGALLY, from Russia and Poland.

Before 1965 or thereabouts there was a limit as to how many people from what country could come here.

This is our country, and we have every right to limit who enters! Fox doesn't have any kind of say as to what kind of fence we put up along the border, and illegals sure don't have a legitimate say, because they're not Americans.

I live in Ohio and I'm sick of having to select a language at the ATM. One time I hit the wrong button...good thing I knew enough Spanish to complete my transaction!

What does it feel like to have no higher status in your own country than the guy that just came by plane last week, or the Cuban that hit the beach in Florida, or the Mexican that jumped a fence in Texas or the Chinese smuggled aboard a ship, or, or, or....

they are slowly destroying this people, this culture and the country.

If legal immigrants are ok but "illegal" immigrants are not why not just simplify matters and get rid of the laws that make them illegal in the first place?

I'm sorry but I can not take the claims of the anti-immigrant groups seriously simply for the fact that its the same old song and dance thats been repeated ad nauseum since day one. The same things people say about Mexicans now were said about Italians when they first came over. Literally the same exact things, everything from they don't assimilate to they drive the crime rate up. Its a load of BS in my opinion. A fad thats come in and out of popularity depending on the political mood of the country.

By the way our country is very far from being full last time I checked there were huge swathes of underpopulated land running all throughout the middle of this huge country I am proud to call home.

Also to say us on the "east coast in liberal america" don't know about the "immigrant problem" has got to be one of the least thought out statements I've heard in a while. We've been dealing with immigrant waves for generations and we've gotten along just fine thank you very much. Maybe you don't realize it but there are Mexicans here too. As well as Dominicans, Colombians, Chinese, Russians, Irish, Pakistanis, Indians, heck practically any country you can think of. So please don't act like we don't understand immigration us East Coasters practically wrote the book on it.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo

they are slowly destroying this people, this culture and the country.

No kidding. Multiculturalism just does not work.

I shake my head whenever I walk into a Lowe's or other store and see things printed in English AND Spanish. Our de facto official language is English! And I think it should be made into law--OFFICIAL language, English!

Bad enough illegals invade, now we have to speak THEIR language!? As if! That's okay, I know enough Spanish to tell them to go home!

I have nothing against Hispanics, though--just so happens that we share a border with Mexico, and that's where they're coming from, primarily. In fact, I have first cousins who have a Puerto Rican father.

I'm just sick of illegal aliens FREELOADING and running amok, committing a lot of crime and just TRASHING this country! I don't care what race they are!

the way i see it , we took this land fare and square, if thay want to take it back ill start loading....klick..klick....

Originally posted by boogyman
If legal immigrants are ok but "illegal" immigrants are not why not just simplify matters and get rid of the laws that make them illegal in the first place?

Because illegals SNEAK in and get paid under the table. I'm for a moratorium on legal immigration, btw, until the dust settles. 40 years ago we had limits on the numbers that could come in. Now we're exporting jobs and importing more people--how much sense does that make? Try none.

I'm sorry but I can not take the claims of the anti-immigrant groups seriously simply for the fact that its the same old song and dance thats been repeated ad nauseum since day one. The same things people say about Mexicans now were said about Italians when they first came over. Literally the same exact things, everything from they don't assimilate to they drive the crime rate up. Its a load of BS in my opinion. A fad thats come in and out of popularity depending on the political mood of the country.

We're anti-ILLEGAL-immigration, not anti-LEGAL-immigration, need to get that straight!

You better believe they don't assimilate! Here in Ohio, our ATMs, you have to pick between English and Spanish--and last I checked, there aren't that many Hispanics in my part of the states!

And yes, illegals do drive the crime rate up. As I pointed out elsewhere, there are places in MARYLAND where cops won't go!

I'd check out newswithviews.com if I were you--and go read Frosty Wooldridge's articles.

Here's why we have a huge immigration problem. You've got a rich white elite class running Mexico headed by Fox. What was it Fox said about American blacks a few months ago? Mexico is one of the most corrupt nations in the world. You have a huge nation richer in natural resources than the US and yet most of it's nation remains in poverty. Notice that most if not all the illegals crossing over are far darker than the man running Mexico. Who would change things in Mexico? Who would fight the corruption and racism in Mexico? The enormous poor class.

It's not a worry though. The elite in Mexico, in order to not find themselves drug into the streets and beaten like they should be, have installed a plan to reduce the numbers of those that would overthrow them. Send them north and that's exactly what you're seeing. They ease the poverty class in Mexico while gaining huge amounts of money from Mexicans sending money back.

The US is aiding them in this effort for two reasons: cheap labor and stability in Mexico. Cheap labor is an easy one. It's pretty freaking dificult to put together so many people to protest anything, let alone immigration. So who is behind these "marches"? Let's take a look at la raza. This is their CBA www.nclr.org... Wow! Look at them corps. backing la raza out of the goodness of their hearts. Yea, right. More like trying to keep profits up by keeping hourly pay down.

Mexico has a long history of violence and social upheaval. Right now that would be the last thing this country needs. So it puts us between a rock and hard place.

I'm not against immigration. This country needs a balanced migration from people from all over the world. What I'm against is a massive encroachment on our territory. It's not fair that you have millions of Mexicans taking advantage of a loose border while millions across the planet patiently await their turn.

A very large percentage come across with no intention of becoming citizens. That's not a good thing. You have a massive number of people residing in this nation not loyal to it at all. That in itself is a time bomb. It's a huge burden on fed. state and local govts. Do you realize illegal aliens make up 25% of the federal prison polulation? Look up what percentage they make in state prisons, particularly in western states. You shouldn't have to look this stuff up. The media should be reporting on this but they choose not to.

The single greatest right a nation has is the security of it's borders and yet we're told we don't have that right. We're told we can't place soldiers on our borders because it would be against the law. That's complete bunk. They wouldn't be there to arrest US citizens. What is a military for if not defending a nations borders?

I have many friends who are immigrants(from England, Spain, France, and Russia), the difference is they are here LEGALLY! They pay their own way and dont rely on our government to do it for them. I worked with an Illegal, who is legal now, because we(My boss and other co workers) talked to immigration about his situation and they agreed to let him stay here legally as long as he had a job. Which he still does. I ended up leaving that job so he could get more money and support the other ILLEGALS he was here with. He was a nice guy and all, and I would make the decision again if I could because he was genuinely in need of the money more than I was. I just got another job in community at my school. I'm glad to say that those ILLEGALS he was living with are now trying to become citizens of the US the LEGAL way, getting jobs to stay here, paying their taxes, and fitting right in to the melting pot that is the Charlotte community(as well as is the US). This is how it should be done. LEGALLY!!!

Originally posted by boogyman
By the way our country is very far from being full last time I checked there were huge swathes of underpopulated land running all throughout the middle of this huge country I am proud to call home.

Most of those huge swatches of underpopulated land are most likely farms or parts of farms.Or are woodlands that are home to countless species of wildlife.
I live out in the middle of nowhere and I love the fact that I look outside and see nothing but woods and wildlife.I would hate to see it ruined for more homes.


How many here illegally now are gang members?
Mexican gangs

Close the borders completely,round up every illegal in the country..yeah yeah I know that'll take time and resources...deport all the illegals and let the people that are tryin to come to our country the legal way in.

I mean come on it's not really fair that there are people that want to come here the right way and having to wait sometimes years if they get to come here at all while there are many more coming here without us even knowing it.Doing god knows what once they get here!

I worked with a young lady that came here legally from Mexico.She works two jobs and goes to school.What does she take at school?English Language and American Government.She also has hopes of becoming a registered nurse.Now that is the type of person I would welcome to America with open arms


I hope the protests remain peaceful...but are they protesting the enforcement of laws already on the books?Or are there new laws in the works?I didn't catch it anywhere.

it should say something about our sociiety when more people protest , basicaly, FOR illeagl immigration than protest against war.................................others have told me that it helps when you bury, not only your head in the sand but your shoulders too.........