Canada's Seal Hunt to Get Under Way

Originally posted by loam

[...]

Originally posted by Beachcoma
What I meant to say is that I don't expert western educated minds to understand what I mean by "honouring the animals". I'm taught that if you kill an animal, make sure it's for food. By eating their meat, their deaths are not considered a meaningless one. Note it has to be for food. If it's for their skin or fur or pelt or for sport, you are not honouring them.

These concepts are not foreign to Westerners...Moreover, nor are they universally (or even widely) adhered to in the East... Shall I dredge up examples??? Shark fin? Bear gall bladders??? Etc... I'm quite confident I could even tie some of these examples to Indonesia.

[...]

I don't believe you were trying to put Westerners down either. However, I do think you are overly confident in your culture's adherence to the principles you espouse.

Saying a thing...and actually doing a thing are materially different from one another.

Good points, BUT, I'm not from Indonesia. Hell no! That place has got too many problems and it will be many generations before they get things right. What a waste, such a rich country, so corrupt... but that's not the issue here.

You're quite right about the shark fin problem... I myself have eaten it (shark's fin soup, it's quite nice actually) but I also ate the shark. Cut 'em into little nuggets and fry them with tempura. Yumm!

I guess it's just natural of one to be proud of their culture. And like all cultures, there are good things and they are bad things. What everyone should do is follow the good points and refrain from the bad ones.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Good points, BUT, I'm not from Indonesia.

You're not????

I'm sorry...very sloppy of me.... 3°01'46.00"N 101°34'24.10"E You're Malaysian?

[edit on 17-3-2006 by loam]

Yes

Our language may be similiar to Indonesian, but I can assure you we are quite different.

RISE CONSCIOUSNESS RISE!!!

this stuff can't keep happening....

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Yes

Our language may be similiar to Indonesian, but I can assure you we are quite different.

Hey, what's the building in the red circle???

That's a Projet petrol station and a 7-Eleven. I live in a relatively new housing area, so that's the landmark I give to anyone looking for the place. Shell, BP and Esso/Mobil are quite common, but Projet stations are very rare, they make excellent landmarks.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
... and a 7-Eleven....

The world is a pretty small place, isn't it?

Indeed

The satellite picture is a bit out of date. The construction site next to the 7-Eleven is actually done with its construction, and there's a row of shoplots there. I suspect a Starbucks will be opened in one of the lots there. There's one Starbucks 2 kilometers due west of that main road and another one 2 kilometers north of that one

This is kind of a hot topic.

First of all, I'll just say that I am a hunter. I shoot animals, and I not only eat them, I feed them to my wife and two children as well. I also make things with the hides, antlers, and somtimes the bones.

Now, as far as seals go, honestly, if they looked like cockroaches, would any of you care if us barbarians here in Canada killed them? Thats besides the point though.

Seals, since they have been made a protected species, have had a population explosion. There are to many. They destroy fish populations in the Atlantic region. We COULD never hunt them again, but then in a few years they would have such enormous numbers, and the food supply would become so low, that they would start to die off anyways. Slowly, of starvation, instead of quickly by a bullet. There is no favorites this way. The newborn, young, and old seals are ALL fair game to mother nature. Once the food is gone, they will die by the thousands.

Instead of this, the govenment and the department of fish and wildlife in Canada, have developed 'seasons' in which the public are allowed to hunt specific animals. They have determined the best times of year to 'cull' certain species to keep the populations down, so as to allow people and animals to co-exist, without us decimating them, or them decimating our ability to make a living in certain industries.

I am not cold hearted towards kiling animals. I believe that I am as humane as possible towards the way in which I take them. No clubbing involved. Sure, getting shot wouldn't be much fun, but a hunter with the proper training (which the government tries to ensure we all have) is able to minimize the suffering of the animal after it is shot. If you want to point fingers at people who make things suffer, point to the military, or to the bastard shark fin harvesters. Protest that. They catch sharks, cut off their fins to sell in Asia, and throw the fish ALIVE, back into the ocean. If a shark can't swim and keep water moving over its gills, it drowns. Drowning is a lot worse of a way to be killed than by being shot.

I can't really argue this topic. People are one side or the other, and you usually can't change that. I kill animals. You don't. I eat animals, and if you do to, then don't be hypocritical.

OK, in my dark past I was a hunter or both animals and men (USMC). Hunting for food = good............hunting for "sport" = bad. Hunting baby seals.......evil.

I am not anti-fur. I believe in using ALL the animal once its killed. But pounding baby seals just seems wrong. Like killing buffalo for their hides was wrong. Killing birds for teir feathers is wrong.

I am undecided on Mink and Sable..........

Given a choice of man or animal in a survival situation I choose MAN.

For example when a forest fire is raging and water can't be taken from a stream because of harming the fish.......screw the fish. Human fire fighters died because of this stupidness.

Point to ramble is .........can't see any human survival issue in killing baby seals for fur.....

Some Seal culling will always be needed as I'm sure some people on this thread are aware of how much fish they eat. Last time I checked we are their primary preditor, what would happen to the Ecosystem and Food chain if we were to remove ourselves from it? It could do far more harm then good. Why? Because if we stop hunting them seals, then their numbers will start to increase rapidly, which will cause the fish stocks to deplete until the point where the Seal population becomes too large for the local food to support it, and it WILL cause a fairly large dieoff. It would effect two seperate industries as well as ecosystems and foodchains.

But pounding baby seals just seems wrong.

I agree.

BTW This years Seal hunt is supposed to be the worst in decades due to warm temperatures. I wonder what effect this will have on Fish stocks?

[edit on 17-3-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
Some Seal culling will always be needed as I'm sure some people on this thread are aware of how much fish they eat. Last time I checked we are their primary preditor, what would happen to the Ecosystem and Food chain if we were to remove ourselves from it?
[edit on 17-3-2006 by sardion2000]

So how many natural preditors has man removed from the area? In the south we have to harvest deer for similar reasons but the meat goes to food shelters etc.....

Is the seal meat consumed?

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by sardion2000
Some Seal culling will always be needed as I'm sure some people on this thread are aware of how much fish they eat. Last time I checked we are their primary preditor, what would happen to the Ecosystem and Food chain if we were to remove ourselves from it?
[edit on 17-3-2006 by sardion2000]

So how many natural preditors has man removed from the area? In the south we have to harvest deer for similar reasons but the meat goes to food shelters etc.....

Is the seal meat consumed?

I honestly don't know. I've heard that the methods of the Seal Hunters aren't exactly best practices, like what you described.

I was just raising a point that I didn't see raised before.

Thats very odd. Canada has a great reputation for taking care of the environment and wildlife.

Originally posted by llfrequencyll
Thats very odd. Canada has a great reputation for taking care of the environment and wildlife.

Take it from a Canadian, it's an undeserved reputation. Our Carbon output per capita is something like 4 times higher then the USA, which is probably directly due to our colder climate.

Originally posted by sardion2000
...if we stop hunting them seals, then their numbers will start to increase rapidly, which will cause the fish stocks to deplete until the point where the Seal population becomes too large for the local food to support it, and it WILL cause a fairly large dieoff. It would effect two seperate industries as well as ecosystems and foodchains.

If the fish populations on the Grand banks had not been overfished by dozens of countries for far too long, then maybe the seal populations wouldn't be a concern. The cod fishery was a victim to greedy companies and Canada is no excepton to that. I can still see Brian Tobin holding up that wee cod in front of nets a mouse culdn't sqeak through.

Canada deserves a kick in the scuppers for allowing the destruction of the fishery.

Turning around and blaming the seals is blinkered thinking, because at one time the fish were so thick you could nearly 'walk on the water'...and the seals during that time were only hunted by a few native bands.

BTW This years Seal hunt is supposed to be the worst in decades due to warm temperatures. I wonder what effect this will have on Fish stocks?

IMO...the fish aren't coming back.
.

As I stated earlier, I really haven't researched this issue much in order to come to some conclusion, but the cod justification does strike me as a weak argument.

I read that the seal quota is 300K out of a population of 5 million...that's somewhere around 6%.... Are people suggesting that it only takes a reduction of 6% in the seal population to keep the cod population healthy??? On it's face, that seems ridiculous...

Seems to me there is dishonesty on both sides of this argument...


[edit on 17-3-2006 by loam]

Turn down the emotions there, I was stating fact from the here and now, not could-have or should-have-beens.

Turning around and blaming the seals is blinkered thinking

I never blamed the Seals for the Cod Meltdown, I know very well what caused that, the fishery would disappear alltogether if we just stop the seal hunts alltogether.

because at one time the fish were so thick you could nearly 'walk on the water'...and the seals during that time were only hunted by a few native bands.

That was "at one time," we are not living then, we are living now and we need to figure out a way to resore the ecosystems to a fraction of what they were a Century ago. Will it help if we just stop completely? No. It would actually hurt, we need to look at the entire situation and take small, deliberate steps.

First step would be to increase Coast Guard Numbers as well as Naval assets in the area. Issue a "Shoot to kill" order for any unlicensed fishing trawlers found within our territorial waters.

When that has happened and we start to nurture the stock again, then we can look to curtail seal hunting by re-introducing some preditors into their ecosystem, shortening seasons, restricting the number of licensee's, etc.

IMO...the fish aren't coming back.

That's not what I meant. I meant that the ice is weak so alot of hunters will not risk hunting too far out.

I read that the seal quota is 300K out of a population of 5 million...that's somewhere around 6%.... Are people suggesting that it only takes a reduction of 6% in the seal population to keep the cod population healthy???

When the Cod Stock has already been depleted by illigal trawlers then yes, 300K less mouths to feed can be significant.

All I'm saying is let's avoid knee-jerk emotional reactions and consider things carefully.

Originally posted by sardion2000
When the Cod Stock has already been depleted by illigal trawlers then yes, 300K less mouths to feed can be significant.

All I'm saying is let's avoid knee-jerk emotional reactions and consider things carefully.

You think I've been emotional about this issue???

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by sardion2000
When the Cod Stock has already been depleted by illigal trawlers then yes, 300K less mouths to feed can be significant.

All I'm saying is let's avoid knee-jerk emotional reactions and consider things carefully.

You think I've been emotional about this issue???

No I was directing that mostly at Masqua and anyone else that is letting the "cuteness" factor play into their decision making process. I can think of a few more practices that are just as horrific, yet only PETA nuts are hollaring against it. I see it as a bit hypocritical of people who would normally be against the tactics and views of PETA, except when the "victim" is cute and cuddly. Your actually one of the few rational voices I've heard on this issue since this years hunt began.