21 year old GI killed in Masonic mystery

Well you sure as heck hit that one on the head.... I for one do not discuss private issues or matters because their private.

Uno my dad always told me.... A man is not a man unless he can keep a secret...

[edit on 17-3-2006 by African459]

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[edit on 1-4-2006 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by African459

Uno my dad always told me.... A man is not a man unless he can keep a secret...

Surely a man should be able to keep private things entrusted to him. But, on the other hand, a man should also be willing to step up to the plate and be open if something is wrong like this. Being a man also has something to do with honor, duty, and integrity, not only secret-keeping. Nor have I revealed any Masonic secrets.

The anti-Masons are constantly bombarding the Secret Societies forum, accusing Masons of keeping all sorts of weird, nefarious secrets, and claim that secret-keeping is the most important thing about Masonry, regardless of the circumstances. I have always denied that claim, and will continue to do so. A Masons first duty is to do that which is right to do. I've always said that Masonry does not conflict with one's duty to do right, but instead reinforces it. I continue to stand by that principle also.

If ever in my Masonic career I was required by Masonry to go against my principles and ideals as a man, I would leave the fraternity and never look back. This has never happened.



[edit on 17-3-2006 by Masonic Light]

Until all of the facts are in how can a Man-clearly state wrong or right? A Man gets is facts together prior to this is where that integrity comes into play. Honor in the values and moral of that which you have been raised by and displaying them in the outside world. Honor of my procession and the inegrity of its vitures prevent me speaking before all of the facts are in. So then I don't have to back track my words. As a man only has his word.

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[edit on 1-4-2006 by AgentSmith]

Although the Masonic connection is what would first interest members of a conspiracy forum, maybe we haven’t taken into account the true evil behind this misadventure: Alcohol. In this case a rampant example of the misuse of it. Does any one know the annual alcohol-related death rate?

I've become good friends with a Mason, and when I return home I will be seeking to join the same lodge as him.

Don't worry! it won't change me! BUT if anyone thinks that they are going to hit my bare bum cheeks with a table tennis bat, then they have got another thing coming! LOL

I'm joining for the charity work (most of it never recognised or acknowledged) that the Masonic Lodges that I have seen do in the local community, and for individuals.

Certainly I would have no desire what so ever to have "Me bum spanked" once a month, well not unless it was by a big chested blonde woman in high heels!

Originally posted by African459


Until all of the facts are in how can a Man-clearly state wrong or right? A Man gets is facts together prior to this is where that integrity comes into play.

If you will go back and read through the thread you will find the following:

1. A non-Mason originated this thread, implying that a man was killed during a Masonic initiation ceremony.

2. I expressed my sympathies, but likewise countered, as you yourself are doing, that we do not currently know all of the facts of this incident, nor his cause of death.

3. Nevertheless, we can be reasonably sure that his friends and parents are telling the truth when they say that he comnplained of at least threats of violence. I don't like this any more than you do, but we do much more harm than good by sweeping something like that under the rug behind the guise of secrecy rather than address it openly and make sure it's corrected.

Honor of my procession and the inegrity of its vitures prevent me speaking before all of the facts are in. So then I don't have to back track my words. As a man only has his word.

Once again, from the very beginning, I cautioned everyone not to rush to judgement. But regradless if this man's death was directly related to hazing, it does seem there was at least some such activity, even if it wasn't fatal. And no such activity can be tolerated in Freemasonry.

Now, earlier, I asked if any Prince Hall Mason has ever experienced or witnessed any hazing in relation to PHA Masonry. You haven't responded, and it's your right not to do so. However, also as previously mentioned, I read the words of others who claim to be PHA Masons, who have no problem at all saying they've see/witnessed it, and are disgusted by it. Since I read some of this on forums whose rules require Masonic membership verification, yet whose forums can be viewed by the public, it is difficult for me to doubt their sincerity and authenticity.



[edit on 17-3-2006 by Masonic Light]

Theres a couple hundred thousand Masons in the USA, right? Don't you think if there was some crazy hazing, breating, or goat molesting there would be more press about it? Maybe I just trust the odds too much.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
maybe we haven’t taken into account the true evil behind this misadventure: Alcohol. In this case a rampant example of the misuse of it.

The Buffalo Theory

Two guys in a bar , one describes the theory to the other. You see, Its like this...

A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is
the slowest andweakest ones that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a
whole, because the general speed and general health of the whole group keeps improving by the
regular killing of the weakest members.

In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. As we know
excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But, naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.
In this way, regular consumption of (insert beverage of choice bber ,wine, other)eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a fasater more efficent machine.

And that my friend is why you always feel smarter after a few glasses.

Originally posted by African459
Uno my dad always told me.... A man is not a man unless he can keep a secret...

There's quite a bit more to being a man than that! And keeping the 'secret's of a "fruity little club" doesn't make a person a man, sorry to tell! Anyone can keep a secret, especially if its in their interest, ie keeps them part of some club that they like being in. THe idea of it being manly to keep secrets is just a juxtaposition with the supposed negative and 'womanly' trait of gossiping.

All anyone's asked is whether or not your club doles out beatings as part of its 'initiation'. If its not 'manly' to talk about that, then, really, what's the point? The question is whether or not Prince Hall lodges haze SnM, drinking fests, hanky-panky in the closet, or whatever, so what can you possibly contribute to the conversation?


Has anyone bothered to contact this lodge? Has the PH organization mad a statement yet? Would there be an investigation? How would anyoneknowif there was one? Does the lack of an investigation and the lack of any public statements affect the "regular" status of PH masonry?

Also, how can any of us on the outside determine if there is anything illegal going on if there is a conspiracy of silence within PH masonry, and possibly within regular Masonry, in so far as if it knows if there is an investigation or not? THis is all very apporpro, considering that the Duke University lacrosse team is fronting a conspiracy of silence and keeping their groups 'secrets' from the police and the very community that they live within. (not to suggest that masonry or PH masonry is invovled in that).

Honor of my procession and the inegrity of its vitures prevent me speaking before all of the facts are in

What facts need to be brought in? Do you or does your organization haze its initiates? Also, the fact that you are 'waiting'for more facts to come in here, when we have a young man who claims he was beaten and hazed with alcohol, goes out drinking with his fraters onenight, andthen ends up dead the next morning, well, clearly, if there is no hazing in your organization, then that wouldn't be the case here no? But if there is a permisibility to hazing, even if hazing isn't officially encouraged, but is generally known about and nothing is done, then that wouldn't require that more information be brought in either. Its seems almost like you are in effect saying, hazing does occur, in some lodges, weneed to wait andsee if this is one of those lodges.

reply to post by African459


Your dad was wrong.

reply to post by BassClef


Thank you for the post BassCleff, my hear goes out to his family.

God bless and continue to march.

My partner and I belong to a malfunction of a lodge. We also found the Grand Lodge to be not any better, maybe even worse.
In this region it appears that one of the rites may be corrupting everything Masonry is about.
I am a third generation Mason, My Father and Grandfather were decent honest men.
I am appalled at many of the things I have witnessed and weird stuff like this death is not a surprise to me at this point.
Somehow, the good Masons must overcome the trashing of the fraternity by corrupt morally lacking members.
The obligations of the three degrees will prevent these things from happening, but not in my state, the Grand Lodge agrees with some that they "are meaningless words".
I think they made a mistake making us members! We swore to God over the obligations.
The Grand Lodge we have aint no Gods! Maybe they need a good paddling?

reply to post by HDFACTORYCERTIF


I would continue to remind everyone that HD's "story" has yet to be confirmed. It makes it even more suspicious that he keeps finding "opportunities" bring up old threads to talk about it - again - on a board where he knows anti-masons and people who are looking for any excuse to defame masonry lurk.

The more he does this, the less I am convinced he is being truthful.

Aw shucks L&D! Yes its terrible what I brought up regarding the Lodge that runs on no rules or obligations.
However, I have not ever told anyone not to be a Mason. I would suggest caution and use your head when dealing with people not known.
What has taken place with RacerX and I regarding this completely out of bounds bunch of idiots is hopefully an isolated incident.
This bunch of bananas continues to cause problems for us outside of the lodge, they are only getting in deeper and dragging the seemingly spineless Grand Lodge right along.
For instance, one of their EAMs recently approached me and asked me to make a suppressor for a weapon! Well, well, isnt that interesting? I do own a machine shop and could easily do such. Sort of a legal and moral problem going on there, one would think.
Our patience is wearing very thin.

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
However, I have not ever told anyone not to be a Mason.

And yet you _continually_ post about it on a board that you KNOW is filled with MANY non-masons.

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
I would suggest caution and use your head when dealing with people not known.

So why don't you do that by stopping with the posts here?

At this point I no longer believe in this story, as any real mason would (1) not be posting about this on a CONSPIRACY FORUM, and (2) such fantastical tales would be known by the entire country by now.

L&D, what I with RacerX have brought up here has been covered up by the Grand Lodge, hence, what other recourse is available to us.
Did I forget to mention that the former secretary hijacked my business web site and turned it to a porn site? There also has been threats of violence.
L&D, our reality is in a head on collision with yours and some others opinion.
Would not now be a good time for a real investigation vrs what the Grand Lodge has hidden?
By the way, what I did now bring up, is a federal crime, I dont take that lightly.

[edit on 12-1-2008 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

reply to post by HDFACTORYCERTIF


More proof this isn't real. I'm ready to call shenanigans on this. You continually post new and fantastical claims that you can't back up and - if you were an actual mason - would not be posting on this type of site to begin with.




[edit on 12-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


I was not going to respond to HD further but I have to concur with you LinD, the accusations continually get more ridiculous and outlandish. I think any remote credibility they you may have had on this issue has been lost and empathy you may have garnered from the Brethern squandered.

Could be a malfunction on your part. We do stand by everything said. Sadly one Mason lodge is no better then a street gang.
Yes, we do have proof of many actions and are more than willing to hand over to proper authority.


[edit on 12-1-2008 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

reply to post by HDFACTORYCERTIF


Perhaps I may be malfunctional. I find that much more acceptable than having the implication that I am perfidious in nature. It is my opinion that your continued assertations and your membership are bogus and until you prove otherwise I will continue to believe such. Your behaviour, in my opinion, is unbecoming anyone who posits themselves as a Mason and I am truly disturbed by what I feel is your continued slander.