The Bible condones slavery

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That was just beautifull!

Day of rest was originally saturday though.

www.lisashea.com...

How many people here on ats follow the lord's 4th commandment?

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Produkt]

the NT verses are out of context. The ones you misquoted are in reference to obeying civil laws, which at the time, condoned slavery (like the romans). The other one you misquoted has to do with the mindset of all christians towards leadership

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

I honestly cant see the problem with luke 22:25-26

The OT verses have conditions.

Slavery was only condoned when taking POWs in a defensive war (excepting of course the caananites, who were the offspring of Lot and also fallen angels. Think sodom gommorrah type places).

However its was forbidden to make a slave out of ones brother (race).
Exo 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

considering the following verse, slavery is now defunct

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (if all men are one in Christ, then they are your kin, therefore not allowed to be your slave. The men of the south would have done well to have read this).

they could have read this one too, and stoped chasing the escapees on the railroad
Deu 23:15 Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee:

or this one
Deu 24:14 Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:
Deu 24:15 At his day thou shalt give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he is poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the LORD, and it be sin unto thee.

Exo 21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.

Even when the bible Did condone slavery , it was far more progressive than any of the nations surrounding it at the time. However at this time the bible no longer condones slavery in light of Galatians 3:28.

Please be considerate of each other and give opinions -- don't flame.

This is getting quite unpleasant (and leave off the "racist pig" remarks, okay?)

Disagree, discuss, educate, contradict -- but keep personal attacks and inflammatory allusions out of the discussion, okay?

The thread was started as a flame-provoker, as one can see if one reads the opening volley. I'm not talking about the obvious ignorance of the religion or what the isolated verses mean, taken to attack a religion over something that is not even pertinent today even IF it is as the poster paints it; I'm referring to the insultive writing, all the way and exspecially the off-topic last slap at the bottom.

The poster got what he wanted; attention, heated response from otehrs, and as a bonus, a staff warned someone who disagrees.

This thread, of all places, did not belong in ATS, where the theme is conspiracy, not theology, spirituality and flame-baiting. Keep this kind of garbage out of CONSPIRACIES forum, folks. It'd be much appreciated by those who'd prefer conspiracies not get caughtup in this.

Thanks everyone,

TC

BTW, good warn call, Byrd! Just because the invitation is given, one doesn't have to light up the flame-thrower.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

Ok, I apologize for calling a non existant being those harsh words. As for it not being pertinent in today's world, perhaps then a man who murdur's someone without being convicted of that crime, but then later save's someone's life, by all right's we shouldn't hold his previous crime's against him. Your choosing just that by defending god's previous crime's against humanity.

Still, no one's brought up what crime's satan has commited against humanity in the bible. So far, in the bible, all this sin was of man's own free will (tachnically lack of free will and more like divine guidence seeing as how he's all knowing and such.) All satan tried to do was ... well, teach us right from wrong. God originally wanted the human species to remain ignorant of these thing's and just worship and love him. Now isn't that a conspircay right there? Why did god want is to remain ignorant of right and wrong in the first place?

Got what I wanted? How the hell do you know what I want?

Besides, I didn't get what I wanted; Christians to admit that this is one of the bad things in the bible. Why I expected that, I dunno, wishful thinking I guess.

But, based on these responses, I hold Christians in a much lower esteem. Before, I just disagreed and thought the faith was...strangely circular. Now, it is downright shameful. And y'all expect people to choose this as the "right" faith when it has crap like this in it...:shk:

I don't understand the argument that God was unable to stop slavery, so he put progressive rules on it. By this logic Good 'ol Honest Abe Lincoln has more power and control of his people than God does.

Either that or God condoned slavery, and made points to have the slaves be of races other than his 'Chosen People'. This makes me think of other historical figures who had 'Chosen People', and enslaved those of lesser races.

I find it interesting to note that the argument 'those were the times' seems to imply that God thought differently throughout history. If that's the case, it tends to make a case against omnicience. It also makes a case for the Bible not being words handed down from God, but from the people of the time preaching their own beliefs and laws. A great case against the Existence of the Judeo-Christian God.

when the world was created, who did God put above all the creatures of the earth....to rule???

MAN!!

man named the animals, and well, man was very much a cocreator of what this planet was to become. this didn't change when the fall occured and corrupted man. he still held the right to rulership of the earth...

so, it was hiim who would have formed the rules of society, ect....

wouldn't it?

much of the "God's says" in the Bible is man saying, ignorantly holding that staff or rulership (or maybe not so ignorantly holding that staff.)

religions are the self-perscribed matrixes that we are to live in...or break free from.

this is just my opinion of course, and all are free to form their own.....wouldn't want to forming another nice matraix to get caught up in!!

The bible does say there will always be slaves.

Slavery doesn't have to be as it was in the bible and as we know it.

I personally think if your not "elite" in class in this day your a slave to their system. Maybe more of an indentured servant.

I have to agree that the specific issue of biblical slavery is not, in and of itself, a conspiracy issue. However, I do feel that exploring issues such as this do help explain the mindset behind such belief systems. And, as is evident, many of the groups vying for control today have such selective belief systems. In this sense I believe the discourse is helpful (flames aside) of understanding the implications of such conspiracies. Example: If Neo-Nazis gained power, I'm sure they'd LOVE to use the aforementiond passages to reinstitute slavery of african-americans.
As I am new to ATS, It would be helpful if one of the Admins. could maybe clarify this. Does the issue have to be explicity focused on a given conspiracy or can it be more oblique in nature?

Originally posted by passenger
Does the issue have to be explicity focused on a given conspiracy

This is the BTS, not so much.

So is God racist- Yes, in the sense that he has chosen people, and the rest are destined to burn in hell. But before they do that, they are to serve his chosen.

Does God condone slavery- Words to that effect were stated in the bible, and that says that either God directly promotes it, or the bible was written at least partially by slavers. Possibly progressive slavers for the time, but slavers who practiced the trade of human lives none the less.

I hear this kind of chatter so much I almost feel like tossing my hands up. Why bother answering to the Christian slamming? We're not all fundamentalist literallists who believe that poly-cotton blends are an abomination to God (check Deuteronomy for that one). The Christians you speak of are the loudest of the lot but they don't speak for all of us. Some of us regard the Bible metaphorically as spiritual truths expressed in the language and culture of the day and in need of scholarly investigation, something called an Exegetical Study, to discover what the writers were really trying to tell us and why others saw fit to preserve these writings for thousands of years - like may other religions have of their own writings. We don't worship the Bible, we study it to see what we can glean from it and compare it to the writings of other religions and some, like myself, will talk about that on Sunday morning. There is a Christian view that is accepting, open minded and seeks to grow spiritually which involves accepting other faiths, traditions and perspectives. My wife is a Pagan, I am a Christian Minister, my best friend is gay, I have athiest friends and my neighbours are Muslims, I am an Interfaith Spiritual Care provider in a hospital who spends time with people of every religion or non-religion and when we all talk we find we have more commonalities than we have differences. When one escapes the fundamentalist perspective and seeks the spiritual truthfulness it is not difficult to see that all the religions speak the same message: PLAY NICE !!

[edit on 2/26/2006 by Thinker_1]

Originally posted by Thinker_1
[font=Book Antiqua]We're not all fundamentalist literallists... The Christians you speak of are the loudest of the lot but they don't speak for all of us.

You're right Thinker. And if any of my posts gave the impression that all Christians were ignorant, I'm sorry. I was and my wife still is, so I can't hate Christians. But as you stated, unfortunately the loudest are the most heard. Also, they leave the most lasting impression. It's just like radical Muslims. There are some Muslims who are the salt of the Earth. But, there are some Muslims we have to worry about. And, I also believe there are some Christians who we have to fear as well (Pat Robertson, Orel Roberts, and their ilk). I believe they would use the Bible to enforce regressive ideologies. I further think that it needs to be discussed, if only to find ways to help counteract these dogmas.

Originally posted by The time lord
The Old Testament does not apply today nor nor did after during later books.

So, then I take it that homosexuality is ok? Because in Exodus and Leviticus is where all the slave, shellfish, pig and homosexuality stuff is, as pointed out in paulthefourth's post

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The bible was written by man, god never reached his hand down from heaven and wrote a single word of it.
Some of the people that wrote parts of the bible claimed to have devine influence.

But in my humble opinion, the bible was written entirely by man in an effort to control the people.
If there is a god, and I do believe there is, he's not the same one in the bible.
We were supposedly made in gods image, the "bible god" wouldn't make a very nice person.

Just my $0.02

This thread was intended to incite and inflame.

First off .. a concept hardly mentioned in any post on this topic. Slavery.
The bulk of the peoples in the world could not afford slaves..yet they must bear the burden for this institution. Why is this???

Second...the institution of Slavery is and was practiced in pagan nations also ..still is. Why is this view not posted here while trying to put the label on the bible or Christianity alone.

What area of the world is Slavery still openly practiced ..in spite of what the United Nations trys to claim. Why are more people not shouting about this instead of this kind of post on Christianity and Slavery.
Anyone know what is going on in Sudan??

I do not buy into this kind of "Victimization " on the part of anyone. It has become a tool by some to play through at the expense of others...unchallanged. It is false in the way it is used or more appropriately misused to play through unchallanged.

The one sidedness of this type of technique is stark when one knows some history of this issue and slavery. They try to put it off as affecting only one group of peoples and condoned by only one group when it was in fact practiced all over the world by people of different religious backgrounds and is still going on in certain countrys.

This original post was intended to incite and I dont buy into it. No free pass to play through.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
This thread was intended to incite and inflame.

Perhaps. And so are about 75% of the threads in this forum, in my opinion.

But this thread has a very good point if people could keep their heads about them. Much of people's beliefs today are based on the bible. And that's fine. But the fact that they pick and choose which parts of the bible justify their actions (and even laws) shines a light on current events.

That's my interest in the subject, anyway.

I have no interest in telling people they're wrong about their biblical beliefs, but when it has legal consequences on people, today, I am concerned.

And to be honest, my concern isn't about slavery. I don't care that the old testiment condones slavery. I don't want to prove the bible wrong or bad. What I care about is that right next to that slavery stuff, the bible condemns homosexuality. And that's what Christians use to say that it's wrong today.

So is the old testiment obsolete or not?

Why is it ok to eat shellfish, wear polyester, shave your beard, plant different crops in the same field and sit where a menstruating woman sat, but homosexuality is still 'wrong'?

Can anyone answer that for me?

Originally posted by orangetom1999
This thread was intended to incite and inflame.

First off .. a concept hardly mentioned in any post on this topic. Slavery.
The bulk of the peoples in the world could not afford slaves..yet they must bear the burden for this institution. Why is this???

Second...the institution of Slavery is and was practiced in pagan nations also ..still is. Why is this view not posted here while trying to put the label on the bible or Christianity alone.

What area of the world is Slavery still openly practiced ..in spite of what the United Nations trys to claim. Why are more people not shouting about this instead of this kind of post on Christianity and Slavery.
Anyone know what is going on in Sudan??

I do not buy into this kind of "Victimization " on the part of anyone. It has become a tool by some to play through at the expense of others...unchallanged. It is false in the way it is used or more appropriately misused to play through unchallanged.

The one sidedness of this type of technique is stark when one knows some history of this issue and slavery. They try to put it off as affecting only one group of peoples and condoned by only one group when it was in fact practiced all over the world by people of different religious backgrounds and is still going on in certain countrys.

This original post was intended to incite and I dont buy into it. No free pass to play through.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Sigh.

I'm sick of this crap. Whaa, whaa, you just wanted to flame Christians with this thread. Get off it! If I am using this thread to flame (which I'm not), it's also a flame of Judaism, and quite frankly more so because it is Judaism that you Christians ripped off in the first place, among other things.

It looks like you just took one look at the title and started posting, because you said that I singled out one group of slaves and slavers. All you did was make yourself look silly. If you had read my FIRST post here, you would see that I indeed referenced Roman slavers, Arab slavers, and yes, even African slavers. Again, don't give me this crap that I'm singling out white Christian slavers; it just makes you and Thomas Crowne (who said something to that effect earlier) look stupid.

You Christians seem to want to be victimized. Like someone else said here, Christians talk about a conspiracy against them, yet Jesus supposedly said they would be persecuted. More of that circular logic, I guess.

I posted this thread to point out the irony that the vast majority of black Americans are Christian, yet the Bible condones slavery. This is ironic because almost all black Americans have ancestors who were slaves. I also posted this thread in response to the pompous attitude that Christianity is the religion that's right and others are wrong. I see that on this thread (there is no Christian god, he is THE God), I hear it from Christians (any supposed miracle that happens to non-Christians is performed by the Devil), and I see it on TV. I don't wanna hear how Christians are right and everyone else is wrong when I see crap like this in their holy book.

I posted I dont buy into "victimization. Not intrested in it at all.

I also said that others practiced slavery..the chinese for instance. Not Christians or bible believers at all.

Yet the focus of this thread is mainly that the bible condones slavery. One cant mistake it.

Your sick of this line of thinking!!! Wow!!! Im impressed. Sorry olde man..no free pass to play through to the high ground here.

This thread belongs in a thread of its own...not in a Religion and Spirituality room. Buisness connnections and practices perhapsed.

Sorry olde man ..im not biting on it. Its poor tact on your part. And yes it does make many sick to see this kind of thing look to play through.
YOu can do much better with your time and wisdom.

Thanks,
Orangetom