The Bible condones slavery

The Israelites were under a different system of today. Being a slave is like being a Butler in those days. Being a slave was better than being alone to savages and cannibals and wild animals. Being a slave then was the infrastructure as we are slaves to our system of money. We are slaves to go to work other wise we will fall out of system of survival. That was a system for survival. As times changed so did the covenants and the rules and societies and nations grew. There is being a slave to a nation and being a helper to a family but maybe along the way the translation of wording of slave maybe wrong. Or our understanding is wrong, it was right for then.

The wars from the battles of the Old Testament had two reasons. Some races were not all human some were Giants crossbreed human Angels. Even if you do not believe this it sounds more humane in literally terms anyway.

Another reason was long term effects of Gods plan and prophecy to help mankind and gain the path to Jesus. Jesus was being threatened to exist before he was born so the bloodline of the Jews from Adam had to be kept alive in the covenants. Hope things are making sense that is why it all seems easy to pick verses and say what you want. But have heard worse quotes from the Koran so the Bible is just a certificate 12 compared to an R rated Koran. But still have to do more reading bout everything don't take my word for it only in what I say about the Bible.



[edit on 24-2-2006 by The time lord]

It was like being a butler? o.0

According to Exodus 21:20: "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he shall not be punished: for the slave is his money."


Man, those poor butler's getting beaten with a rod. I know I won't be a butler any time soon.

Tx,

Ordained
appointed: fixed or established especially by order or command; "at the time appointed (or the appointed time")

Now for that verse again.

The Bible says in Leviticus 25:44-46 that God told them: "As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: You may buy your male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you ... You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever."

Sure does look like he gave a command/order there.

Actually, I have read the bible before. It's a disgusting filthy POS imho. I find it rather sickening that anyone would worship something as evil as this guy. As noted earlier however, the supposed bad guy in this story hasn't actually done anything all that bad to us. Sure, through the year's your 'god' has tainted satan's name, but how many act's AGAINST humanity does god commit compared to satan? Satan look's like a cute little puppy dog in that book. If you consider trying to teach someone the difference between right and wrong as a sin, such as god did .. then you've got serious problem's. Especially if you turn around and punish them for their own CREATED ignorance. If he just got it right the first time, we wouldn't be in this mess now would we?

Produkt, you are not correcting anyone of faith here. (You really don't have the right or the power to do that, you can merely give us your angle.. eh?)

You can call anyone you want a racist pig but when you start calling God that.. well, that's where you really cross the line. Again, attempting (and I DO mean attempt) to villify God paints a HORRIBLE picture your character and spiritual state. Let me summarize it for you: I don't care if you don't agree with the Bible but I humbly suggest that you don't blashmeme God in that manner.. (For your own sake).

AGAIN, God DID NOT condone slavery, he merely ALLOWED it.

Get over it.



Produkt, try reading Job again.

The Old Testament does not apply today nor nor did after during later books. You would be surprised how people get treated at work today during our times. These are old systems for the people of that day who had little understanding or no rules for them selves. The rules were for the people or the tribes of that time not for today. Things changed with time and certain rules applied to certain tribes because maybe some only understood actions if communication was a problem. Butlers can be treated badly army recruits too. But it was the law for that tribe so and not for mankind. The covenants changed and the people became socially more modern and towns and cities were being built and nations formed. The understanding are of the times and situations and how God had to communicate with these people without causing too much panic with new rules. Time was not ready then to abolish their infrastructure.

Abraham had a bondswoman who did the work and looking after him a maid as you can call it today. He made a mistake by getting her pregnant for his old wife and there you have it the Arabs as a race. Then after he had a son with his wise chosen to be the front runner of the future Jewish convenant bloodline as in the name of Issac. But its not about this I was just telling that story.

[edit on 24-2-2006 by The time lord]

[edit on 24-2-2006 by The time lord]

Reread that verse again my friend. That's more then merely 'allowing'. He's going beyond that and taking one extra step to inform his faithfull sheep HOW to go about slavery. Which way to do it and which way not to do it. That's a command, not a mere wave of the hand and saying yea whatever you guy's want.

And me calling god a racist pig is in no way whatsoever bad. He is a racist pig in that book. I would call anyone who either allow's or condone's slavery of any form a racist pig. It's just sick. If he's not a racist pig, then he'd niether allow nor condone slavery as he does in the bible.

It was for the time to help the people get in line with God and if that is what was commanded then that was the only way fro them to understand. Slavery already existed before God decided how to do it without having them kill each other. A new system would have divided them and Gods plan ruined for their long-term future. If God said okay lets do democracy on these people you would get what is happening in Iraq today. People will just spilt and a create chaos. It was just to keep his law in line and does not apply today. That is why Islam seems out of date they still stick to these rules and forgot the bits in between because it does not mention the Arab bloodline because the covenant was not made with them. So all the changes that were brought about was abandoned by the Arabs and hence why they are stuck in the past.

All surrounding nations had slaves it was normal. The rules were strict but they dispursed with time and had no need for them so much. Not sure what the problem is. Every book after goes forward not backwards untill the rule of sending the King of the Jews was right for man kind.


[edit on 24-2-2006 by The time lord]

Produkt, do you have to call me 'friend'? normally doesn't irk me but in this particular sitation it gives me the creeps.. But if you must.

If he's not a racist pig, then he'd niether allow nor condone slavery as he does in the bible.

ok.. I guess by the same logic you would call God a 'murderer' because he allows murder to happen in the world.

If he just got it right the first time, we wouldn't be in this mess now would we?

OK...

This statement clearly illustrates your ignorance. If God only got it right the first time.. blah blah blah.. If HE DID get it right the first time as you say then we wouldn't have FREE WILL..


I also guess going by the same flawed logic you have displayed thus far that you think that Lot sleeping with his daughters (God keeping silent on the matter) in Genesis means God 'condoned' incest. Before I explicate on that one I want to see if you know anything meaningful about it. Trust me when I say however that the sins of Lot and his daughters eventually caught up with them.


Try loosing the dilusion and get some spiritual discernment while you are at it.. Hopefully then you can 'contribute' something. You are deffinitely not shooting any Christians down here.





[edit on 24-2-2006 by TxSecret]

Uhh, TxSecret, you are in denial.

Those verses Produkt and I posted CLEARLY says what God tells the people to do with their slaves. Hell, after the Israelites left slavery in Egypt God told Moses how they were to have slaves. That's TELLING people how to go about slaving; it's actually worse than condoning.

And, what's wrong with Produkt calling the Christian god a racist pig? He has his own "chosen people," whom he told on many occasions to slaughter their enemies and their enemies' children. He genocides the planet for some strange reason, strange because he KNEW the people would be bad before he made them. He is rabidly homophobic, telling people to kill gays and killing gays himself. I don't see where Produkt went wrong, except for telling you directly how he feels about the Christian god.

ok.. I guess by the same logic you would call God a 'murderer' because he allows murder to happen in the world.

Nope, I would call him a murderer for his own murdurous act's. Plenty of example's in the bible, which I'm sure your aware of since you did state to have read it.

This statement clearly illustrates your ignorance. If God only got it right the first time.. blah blah blah.. If HE DID get it right the first time as you say then we wouldn't have FREE WILL..

So, your saying it's impossible to have free will without being an evil sadistic murdurous bastard? Interesting...

I also guess going by the same flawed logic you have displayed thus far that you think that Lot sleeping with his daughters (God keeping silent on the matter) in Genesis means God 'condoned' incest. Before I explicate on that one I want to see if you know anything meaningful about it. Trust me when I say however that the sins of Lot and his daughters eventually caught up with them.

Well, god doesn't exactly lay silent in a way. See, he's an all knowing, so surely he knew before hand what the consequence's were of warning lot ahead of time. And seeing as how he's all knowing, he knew lot and his daughter's would perform incest. Despite the actions catching up with them eventually, god did allow it to happen when he already knew it would happen.

Try loosing the dilusion and get some spiritual discernment while you are at it.. Hopefully then you can 'contribute' something. You are deffinitely not shooting any Christians down here.

There's nothing spiritual about life. Nothing special. I'm just not as ... blinded as some. Nor am I trying to shoot down christian's either. Just pointing out some of the many contradiction's of a supposed perfect being and some of the immoral act's of a supposed perfect being.

'There's nothing spiritual about life. Nothing special. I'm just not as ... blinded as some. Nor am I trying to shoot down christian's either.' Produkt
I am sure you are right about not being blind as some, though those posts sure make it clear to me how few those people are. You shoot down Christians and then claim not to in the very same post. But, far worse, imo, you see nothing special or spiritual about life. I feel so grateful that I do. I believe that there may very well be nothing spiritual or special about YOUR life, but there sure as heck is about mine.
I am not afraid to say the kinds of things about god that you did, because if there is a god, I feel forgiveness would be unconditional. I don't though. I would rather insult the devil, which is far less offensive. Also, if the cowardly, gutless, wimpy, chicken of a devil is real, and evil, then it is braver too.
Forgive me if I side with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and Saint Mother Teresa rather than with you.... If that sounds 'blinded', so be it, then I am blind. I would have to lie to say I see no spiritual reality in my life, so I can't.

Produkt, you are misguided.

God tolerated slavery, because he could not control it just as he cannot control if you put a gun to your own head and pulled the trigger. Instead, the Lord put strict guidelines on slavery so that the slave would not be mistreated nor the slave owner would not get his money's worth.

God teaches humbleness and humility to his followers, slaves included. From your posts, I can see that you don't know the meaning of humbleness. Either that or you have some anger management issues.

The beauty of God is that he guides his followers not with force nor hate, but with visions and spiritual guidance. He lets you see your own faults instead of punishing you without consent. You say that God ignorantly slaughters entire towns without mercy, but please read the bible without prejudice or pre-determined judgement. If you read the chapters before the destruction of Sodom and Gomor, you will see the errors of your viewpoint. The previous chapters state that God was saddened with Sodom's evil practices of adultery, beastiality, murder, slavery, and aetheism. So he sent angels to Sodom to persuade them to the path of God. Sodom whole-heartedly repented and gave up their past ways. But a century later, Sodom fell right back to their sinful behaviours and God again waited and watched for them to change back.

God could have easily forced everyone in Sodom to repent and give up sinning, but instead he sent angels again to convince them to stop. Instead, the denizens of Sodom tried to kill and rape the angels. God knew that by letting Sodom exist, Sodom would eventually hurt so many more people than God could save. God's judgement is slow to act, because of his love and understanding. But when he does act, it is swift and strong. He decimated Sodom because there was no one in the city that was holy except for one family which he saved. With the destruction of the city, countless lives were saved and most people learned from Sodom that God will not just stand back allow people to sin and enslave.

Now think to yourself, is God truly rampaging across Earth killing innocent humans left and right? The bible is not filled with cookie-cutter characters and generic plot lines, you must understand the metaphors and allusions. It is not easy to read the bible, and thus many people misinterpret it.

produkt...why can't you reply with at least a little civility? I've only been a member here for a short time and in that very short time you have plagued other threads with your dilusional, guns blazing, uncivil dislike of God, Christ and the Bible...what gives man. It looks as though you have had some traumatic event happen in your life that you are deeply wounded by and are taking it out on God. I don't know. If you haven't, then why do you lurk around on these kinds of threads vehemently bashing God and the Bible?
It's REALLY getting old!!!!!!!
Are you lonely and have nothing better to do?

-Quin

[edit on 25-2-2006 by mytquin]

[edit on 25-2-2006 by mytquin]

Originally posted by Produkt
Well, like I said, god does indeed condone slavery. Now unless your a racist pig like god, I would assume you consider slavery an immoral practice. I could be wrong and you could indeed be a racist pig, which would negate the concept of slavery being immoral to you.

Killing innocent people per gods order's. Now unless your a barbaric sadist, I would assume you would also consider this an immoral act. I could be wrong and you could indeed be a barbaric sadist, which would negate the concept of killing innocent people as being immoral to you.

This site here is rather good about immorality and god.

atheism.about.com...

I'll dig up some quote's from the bible in a few mins, just got home after buying a shiny po-lice car.

Ok, you automatically relate slavery to 'racism' in fact in the days the bible was written slaves were often POWs, criminals, debtors, and other such people(not that this makes it right) but if I recall the verse right there is one where jesus says

"Remember slaveholders, that you also serve a master, a master in heaven'

It was also traditional to release slaves ever seventh year and give them a portion of what they worked for. (year of jubilee)

LoooL is this serious??? that is just lame..

"Timothy 6:1-2 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them. "

-----------------------------------------------------


"so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered."

if you go back in the bible far enough, I beleive you will find some times when God tells the people it's okay to take some of the inhabitants as slaves? well, unfortunately, you can't at a later date come back and try to fix some of these mistakes that the prophets of God made without compromising the integrity of the religion. I think at this point in man's developement really wanted to use this new religion to weed out some of the errors in the religion.

remember, Christ said for them to do all the jewish leaders instructed them to do, just not in the same manner as they. be a master over you slave in love, be the servant in love, the wife/husband in love.....it kind of negates alot of the unpleasantries of the slave/master relationship anyways.....which in a way still exists...in a far less brutal form...the employee/employer...

TheBlueSoldier,

Umm... when god is directing people on how to be slave master's, that IS a form of control. Hey guy's just do it this way and we're cool. I'm srooy buddy, YOU religous folk might accept the notion of slavery, but I don't. It's disgusting on any level.

The beauty of God is that he guides his followers not with force nor hate, but with visions and spiritual guidance.

Love me or goto hell ... Nah... no force or hate there.

God could have easily forced everyone in Sodom to repent and give up sinning, but instead he sent angels again to convince them to stop. Instead, the denizens of Sodom tried to kill and rape the angels. God knew that by letting Sodom exist, Sodom would eventually hurt so many more people than God could save. God's judgement is slow to act, because of his love and understanding. But when he does act, it is swift and strong. He decimated Sodom because there was no one in the city that was holy except for one family which he saved. With the destruction of the city, countless lives were saved and most people learned from Sodom that God will not just stand back allow people to sin and enslave.

God ALREADY knew what was going to happen before hand. One of the many beauties of ALL KNOWING. Who's flaw's are who's? He supposedly created everything, including those he KNEW would commit sin's REGARDLESS of what he 'tried' to do. Somehow, doesn't sound all knowing and all powerfull to me.

Now think to yourself, is God truly rampaging across Earth killing innocent humans left and right? The bible is not filled with cookie-cutter characters and generic plot lines, you must understand the metaphors and allusions. It is not easy to read the bible, and thus many people misinterpret it.

Ooooh, so he never really did those horrible thing's in the bible? It was all just metaphorical act's of the most perverse kind? Gee... that make's a boat load of sense.

mytquin,

I am being civil. I'm sorry if I don't accept the action's of a sick and perverse god as much as you do. But I am entitled to that opinion, just as your entitled to defending such a criminal mind. The only thing getting old is those of faith. My god is the one true god ... in how many religion's is this stated? Woe is us, our lord is bringing judgment day soon... how many time's has this been stated through out history? Too many. We are special. Far from it, we're STILL animals and still driven by our primitive animal instict's. We're no better then animals. Even our cousin's, the great ape's show the SAME trait's as us homo sapiens. You people are the most preverse people on this planet, thinking your all superior and better then the rest. You think believing in fairy tale's is gunna make you look like a good person, not a single one of you can even follow just TEN of the commandment's god set forth to you. Superior? I think not.

dawnstar,

So you are you saying that when god says if you beat your slave it's perfectly ok only if he live's through the beating? If you need a memory refresher I'll be more then happy to pull up a verse or two about this.

I have to agree with Produkt.

You people have basically been apologists for the Christian god. I agree that it is quite sick and sad that y'all have to make excuses as to why the bible condones slavery. However, I do have something that would help you out.

Maybe they set the bar too high for this deity. Maybe he's not really omniscient. Omnipotent, sure, that might work, but omniscient...eh, I dunno. If he doesn't know everything, all that stuff he did would make more sense...sort of. I don't think he had to kill two cities and THE WHOLE FRIGGIN PLANET, but hey, it would make more sense. Barely more sense; I mean, what did the animals and plants do to deserve drowning?

I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't "God said" but rather, what man, prophets, seers, or maybe just a few greedy power hungry folks in the right position had to say.....some may have been sincere, and did a great job expressing the higher knowledge of "God", othere were also sincere, but well, occasionally, just missed, and some were just out to use the power to gain all that they can.

if they could get enough people to buy it, hey it stuck, and well...."This is a commandment from GOD"...

well, jesus came into this mess and had a few good ideas how it could be changed for the better, except there was one smalll problem, to point out the mistakes of their ancestors was haresy, blasphamy, and well,ended up being but to death anyways, but it more than like would have sped that event along. his main message, the one that would eventually cause the people to lay down their erroneous beliefs, was that they should love one another and forgive each other... if the master loves his servant, well, he is really very apt not to beat him, or murder him, or starve him but rather work for his freedom.
Jesus said he didn't come to change one bit of "God's Law"....that mess of mispeaks made in the name of God, but he planted seeds that would eventually provoke the people to find a better way to live with their self perscribed matrix.

if they could get enough people to buy it, hey it stuck, and well...."This is a commandment from GOD"...

You mean like ... getting enough people to think jesus is the son of god? If you can't trust part's of your holy scripture, then how can you be so sure for the validity of it in it's entirety? Could those 'comandments of god' all just be commandments of priest's trying to control a population of unquestioning blind faither's? The monotheistic religion does teach not to question god's existence, just have 'faith' that he's real without any shred of evidence for the vailidity of this claim. Well, I chose not to follow this path, as have many people before me. We questioned these claim's and low and behold, turn's out man did indeed create god, not the other way around. Monotheism is a recent form of religion. Why is that? Your god created all of mankind, but failed to create faith in him even just 10,000 years ago? Hinduism is the oldest documented form of religion. So ... wouldn't that religion be more true then your's?

Here's an old E-mail someone forwarded to me that shows how even "true believers" are going straight to hell in a hand-basket.

Subject: Dr. Laura Schlessinger

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who
dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio
show. Recently, she said that, as an observant
Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination
according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned
under any circumstance. The following is an open
letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was
posted on the Internet. It's profound and should make
you think:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people
regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from
your show, and try to share that knowledge with as
many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the
homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind
them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an
abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from
you, however, regarding some of the other specific
laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice,
I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.
1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor
is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as
sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what
do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman
while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness
- Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have
tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess
slaves, both male and female, provided they are
purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own
Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the
Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put
to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating
shellfish is a abomination of Lev.11:10, it is a
lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree and
believe he should be smited.
Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the
altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have
to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision
have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed,
including the hair around their temples, even though
this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should
they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of
a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play
football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by
planting two different crops in the same field, as
does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He
also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the
whole town together to stone them? -Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private
family affair like we do with people who sleep with
their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so
I am confident you can help. Thank you again for
reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,
Jim

If people are going to pick and choose which parts of the Bible to pay attention to, then what's the point? People are going to do what their conscience tells them to (or 'allows' them to) anyway.

If people decide to use the Bible to justify their superiority and legitimize their judgement of others, then they shouldn't get too upset when the same standards are used against them.

Now, since I'm one of those filthy homosexual abominations (which apparently is something I 'chose' to do to myself, according to most 'believers' ), I guess at the check-in desk in Hell, I'll see everyone that's ever played football, or eaten shrimp, or worked on a Sunday, or worn a poly/cotton blend, or had a haircut, or wore corrective lenses . . . Hey, I didn't make the rules, so don't get upset with me - just bring a pitcher of ice-water with you when you die, I hear it's awfully hot 'down there'.


[edit on 2/25/06 by paulthefourth]