Paul McCartney died in 1966 - replaced by Billy Shepherd

Originally posted by calcoastseeker
All right lets settle this once and for all.

Is there any members on this site reading through these 122 pages of posts with access to facial recognition software?

Take a photo of a young Paul and the Paul now and see if they match.

No amount of plastic surgery will fool facial recognition software!

As far as I know there's not a face recognition software per se in these volumes - though it's been suggested for some people to get it to prove their case. What has been posted a few times is the forensic scientists from Italy who did an analysis that showed discrepancies that could be accounted only by painful surgery or somebody completely different.

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob

So, if an artist were to flat-out refuse to go along w/ something important, how "extreme" might the situation get, in your estimation?

Do you have more info on Hitler's doubles?

* Preliminary note:

From posts quoting PM whom I reluctantly chose to ignore due to noise some might refer to as pollution, I see that some take exception to what may appear to be a private conversation between posters who seem to agree or collude. While I dislike his behavior enough to have used the ignore function for the first time, I however think that such a perception is legitimate and although I will reply to questions directed at me personally, in the future I would prefer to debate these ideas without personally directed questions but instead calls for opinions or responses more generally directed at all here on board. Thanks for understanding.


Reply to first question:

I don't know, the artists I knew pulled out of the record and tour scene before things got too gruesome, some because they saw what was happening to others (no, I didn't get details at the time) and others because they found they were dealing with underworld characters which they didn't want to be exposed to or victimized by.


Reply to second question:

Hitler had several doubles and it is considered by a number of researchers that in the early days of his initial contacts with the Thule society he was on occasion replaced by German speaking British operative Aleister Crowley, who had presumably personally selected him from US Army records and photographs of German troupes in WWI (records of Crowley's request and receipt of these documents exist). This may have helped Hitler integrate certain Elite circles of occult organizations at the very beginning.

Hitler later used several other doubles, all it takes is an image search comparing facial structures and ear shape to see this, the last few months are especially revealing, pointing to his not even being in person in the bunker. Eva Braun who met him through his photographer (later sent to the Russian front) and thus potentially had significant photographic material for 'customizing' doubles, is seen by some researchers to have been Hitler's handler, much like Yoko Ono might have been John's. End of today's tenuous but potentially instructive comparisons.


* Note: This posting is for general background information purposes, to assist PID thead members in evaluating the likelihood of Paul's substitution by a "double".


Important PAUL IS DEAD background information:

While it might at first glance appear off topic, given that we are no longer talking about show business people but major historical political figures, it however directly pertains to the use of doubles operated several decades before the presumed disappearance of Paul and simultaneous apparition of Faul.

PID purists must note that there is also a direct connection between Hitler and The Beatles: namely through Aleister Crowley who is seen on the cover of the Sgt Pepper album, where many see clues to Paul's death, and through the message conveyed about satanist involvement clearly evoked in the famous Yellow Submarine portrait of the Beatles.

In his own words "The Most Evil Man on Earth" and founder of modern satanism, Aleister Crowley was a founder of the Tavistock Institute which has often been alleged to be a key factor in The Beatles' rise to fame. This organization (to which Dick Cavett referred?) is credited with promoting mass mind control through media and music, while associating at its upper levels with Elite satanism. Some PID researchers have claimed that Faul was Crowley's biological son (I have no factual source about that).

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Getsmart]

Would something like this even be possible? I would have to say yes. The technology we have now was not thought possible even twenty years ago, so what we have is probably no indication of what is truly in the possession of the select in the upper echelons.

Considering this would have happened in the mid nineteen sixties, how difficult would it have been to do a switch? Society of that time seemed to be less questioning and observant anyway.

There are too many variables to completely dismiss any claims. The ruthlessness of humans when money and power are on the line is well documented and, if other conspiracies of the sixties are to be given even a modicum of credibility, who is to say what the power base could, and did, accomplish and get away with.

It has been theorized on this thread that the Tavistock Institute may have been secretly involved in switching Pauls as an experiment (perhaps in conjunction with the use of '___', as in MK-Ultra).

If you look up the Tavistock Institute on Wikipedia...

en.wikipedia.org...

you can get an overview, then follow the links to pages concerning the key psychiatrists involved and topics they were interested in and it's really fascinating.

Kurt Lewin is an interesting one...

en.wikipedia.org...

They say he conducted "change experiments" and described change this way...

"An early model of change developed by Lewin described change as a three-stage process. The first stage he called "unfreezing". It involved overcoming inertia and dismantling the existing "mind set". Defense mechanisms have to be bypassed. In the second stage the change occurs. This is typically a period of confusion and transition. We are aware that the old ways are being challenged but we do not have a clear picture as to what we are replacing them with yet. The third and final stage he called "freezing". The new mindset is crystallizing and one's comfort level is returning to previous levels. This is often misquoted as "refreezing" (see Lewin K (1947) Frontiers in Group Dynamics)."

Perhaps an experiment could have been the group dynamics (of the inner circle of The Beatles) when the following was made to happen... first, a sudden, shocking change (the death of Original Paul); secondly, the "unfreezing" or reconditioning of the group/organization affected, using psychiatric techniques including heavy administering of '___'; and thirdly, "freezing" or producing psychological acceptance of the replacement of JPM (accepting Bill).

Other topics of interest re Kurt Lewin.... force field analysis, action research, leadership climates, also the fascinating concept of genidentity.

Again, I refer you to the films of Stanley Kubrick as allusions to the PID theories, especially A CLOCKWORK ORANGE (the reconditioning -- unfreeze and refreeze of behavior) and EYES WIDE SHUT (how someone might die from exposure to an Illuminati cabal).

[edit on 9-9-2009 by switching yard]

Another key player in the Tavistock Institute, John Rawlings Rees...

en.wikipedia.org...

I found it interesting that in the "Rudolf Hess affair," it is mentioned that captured Nazi Hess complained of being drugged and mesmerized (hypnotized) against his will by one would assume British Intelligence.

How is this possibly relevant to PID?

I would theorize and speculate that a combination of drugs and hypnotism may have been used to facilitate a smooth transition if a switch of Pauls was made (as a Tavistock "change experiment").

There may have been nesting experiments. On a micro scale of group dynamics, the change of Pauls within a tight group of four people would have been one experiment (to see if they could successfully make such a switch and keep the dynamics of the group together and productive) and nest that with the macro, the larger social experiment of studying the reaction of society at large --- as in, would the masses accept the double as a result of preconditioning (the belief system so strong that it will overlook discrepancies in order to continue believing in the status quo).

So there could have been multiple experiments going on. The planting of clues could have been a deliberate component of the macro experiment... drop big hints such as "O untimely death!" and see what the reaction of the masses might be --- would people catch on and if so, how long would it take and how many obvious clues would it take to tip the scales? The larger social experiment could be ongoing today. Perhaps they are still, to this day, dropping hints and clues all over the place.

Theory and speculation, folks. I believe it's allowed on ATS.

[edit on 9-9-2009 by switching yard]

Going back to the Bubblegum cards - they could have been airbrushed a bit and I think the crewcuts are suspicious, but at that stage would anyone have been thinking of making Paul look like a double?

Would they have been making his face look longer that early on?

I think it was Getsmart who made the remark about understudies? How much of a stretch is it to think that Beatle understudies would have been in training from before the time The Beatles became world famous?

If that was the case, then there would be grounds to suspect that the cards were tampered with before they were released to make Paul look more like someone else. Otherwise, I'd have to think that any airbrushing was done to hide a few spots or blemishes, for instance.

There is at least one card where Paul has his hand open with the palm facing the camera. It's been frustrating to me that I can't enlarge that picture to compare his palm print with that of the elderly Paul that I posted ages ago.

PS - is there anything to link Jane Asher's father with the Tavistock Institute? Here's something he wrote about hypnosis. I can't pretend I've read it yet, but it may be of interest.:

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...



[edit on 9-9-2009 by berenike]

Originally posted by calcoastseeker
No amount of plastic surgery will fool facial recognition software!

Yes it will, and so will low res photos, a face showing an expression, or is not a straight on shot. If a persons face has changed due to age, like Macca, it will see differences.

Facial recognition software is not conclusive.

There is a post explaining this in more detail somewhere in this thread.

Originally posted by Getsmart
Hitler later used several other doubles, all it takes is an image search comparing facial structures and ear shape to see this, the last few months are especially revealing, pointing to his not even being in person in the bunker.

I think general double research is relevant to PID. The use of doubles is pretty wide-spread.

Here's a thread on Hitler doubles:
doppels.proboards.com...

PID purists must note that there is also a direct connection between Hitler and The Beatles: namely through Aleister Crowley who is seen on the cover of the Sgt Pepper album, where many see clues to Paul's death, and through the message conveyed about satanist involvement clearly evoked in the famous Yellow Submarine portrait of the Beatles.

Yes, that's one of the things that led me to believe there is/was an intell/Illuminati connection.

Sorry I left out the other possible aspect of the possible micro/macro change experiment: the making of the New Paul. So, the initial part of the experiment would have been taking Bill Campbell or Bill Shepherd (presumably a volunteer? not sure) and having him go through an intense process of changing him into someone else (Paul). I think it would have taken at least a year prior to the switch and would have been done in secret (obviously).

Originally posted by Ethera
Considering this would have happened in the mid nineteen sixties, how difficult would it have been to do a switch? Society of that time seemed to be less questioning and observant anyway.

Yes and no. In some ways, it seems that the people were very trusting of the mainstream media. On the other hand, a lot of people did seem to pick up on the switch, so it seems that at least some people were more observant.

Originally posted by switching yard
It has been theorized on this thread that the Tavistock Institute may have been secretly involved in switching Pauls as an experiment (perhaps in conjunction with the use of '___', as in MK-Ultra).

Here's a thread on Tavistock:
only1rad.proboards.com...

Kurt Lewin is an interesting one...

en.wikipedia.org...

They say he conducted "change experiments" and described change this way...

"An early model of change developed by Lewin described change as a three-stage process..."

Ok, I love the Beatles, but I have to entertain the possibility that they were being used as change agents. I ran across this article yesterday by a constitutional lawyer:

The Beatles did not just come to America forty years ago, they invaded it...

The four young men who had affected everything from haircuts and fashion to the political and spiritual beliefs of a generation had now conquered western culture...

The charge laid against the Beatles by the older generation of the sixties, including my parents, was that they corrupted the American youth. However, the Beatles’ popularity rose just as their culture’s youth were expressing their own values. When the Beatles landed in the United States, traditional moral codes were already disintegrating. “We’ve discarded the idea that the loss of virginity is related to degeneracy,” an Ohio State senior at the time explained. “Premarital sex doesn’t mean the downfall of society, at least not the kind of society that we’re going to build.”

The Beatles symbolized the rejection of the 1950s morality, a revolt against authority and estrangement from parents for many young Americans. “My mother hates them, my father hates them, my teacher hates them,” a young fan said. “Can you think of three better reasons why I love them?”

Despite an apparently harmless façade, the Beatles introduced a very subtle generational revolt. A 1965 article in Newsweek magazine noted the alienation on college campuses: “The young successfully ‘Beatle-ized’ the nation, and many think they may be about to ‘Berkeley-ize’ it as well.” In fact, “the Beatles and their music constituted arguably the single most important agent of cultural revolution in their time,” writes Professor Henry W. Sullivan in his book on the group.

The point is that unlike their predecessors, the Beatles were more than just entertainers. As cultural icons and modernists, they were willing to challenge traditions—especially John Lennon. The defining moment came in 1966 with a remark made by Lennon at a time when public demand for the Beatles seemed insatiable. Lennon took aim at Christianity in an interview with a British journalist: “Christianity will go,” Lennon said. “It will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that. I’m right, and I will be proved right. We’re more popular than Jesus Christ right now. I don’t know which will go first, rock ‘n’ roll or Christianity. Jesus was alright, but the disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me.”

The importance of this statement cannot be underestimated, for it challenged the basic fabric of western society. The gauntlet was thrown down by the biggest pop icons of the age.

The Beatles were the spokesmen for a generation that had been raised on Leave It to Beaver, anti-communism and the fear of God. Men routinely dressed for work in hats and ties, and women were expected to nurture their children on Christian morals and have dinner ready when their husbands came home from work. Lennon’s statement challenged all of this.

Furthermore, and what may be more important, it provoked one of the last real stands for Christian fundamentalism. The failed attempt by fundamentalist groups to ban the Beatles, including burn-ins to torch Beatle records, meant that the old-time religion had lost its 200-year-old grip on American culture.

Therefore, more than four boys emerged from that airplane forty years ago in New York. The vanguard of a generational shift stepped onto American soil, and the world was forever changed.

The Beatles Were the Vanguard of Change
John W. Whitehead
rutherford.org...

Originally posted by switching yard
I found it interesting that in the "Rudolf Hess affair," it is mentioned that captured Nazi Hess complained of being drugged and mesmerized (hypnotized) against his will by one would assume British Intelligence.

How is this possibly relevant to PID?

I would theorize and speculate that a combination of drugs and hypnotism may have been used to facilitate a smooth transition if a switch of Pauls was made (as a Tavistock "change experiment").

Yes, but it could also be linked to MK-ULTRA, & mind control drug experiments.

the larger social experiment of studying the reaction of society at large --- as in, would the masses accept the double as a result of preconditioning (the belief system so strong that it will overlook discrepancies in order to continue believing in the status quo).

This is one thing I find really disturbing. A lot of people seem to be "blind" to the differences. You can point out all the differences, but they won't "see" them. Maybe it's just a mental block - a refusal to accept a reality that is at odds w/ one's beliefs? I found it disturbing that I had been blinded to the differences, even though I had wondered what happened to Paul's looks after 1966 & why he never quite lived up to expectations in his solo career...

The planting of clues could have been a deliberate component of the macro experiment... drop big hints such as "O untimely death!" and see what the reaction of the masses might be --- would people catch on and if so, how long would it take and how many obvious clues would it take to tip the scales? The larger social experiment could be ongoing today. Perhaps they are still, to this day, dropping hints and clues all over the place.

Just in the past month or two, there have been a lot of references to PID in the media. It could be part of the "experiment," or it could be more & more people picking up on the switch. I'm hoping it's the latter.

reply to post by faulconandsnowjob


You might seriously be schizo if you believe some of the things you are saying regarding Paul and The Beatles.

You're acting as if The Beatles influence was soooo huge that intelligence agencies from MANY countries got involved.

Your only replies end up being the same old photos at different ages, different weights, different camera angles, different facial expressions, color vs. b & w.

With many of the photos you have posted you could easily make the same argument that EVERY Beatle was replaced at some point.

George looks different in every photo, so does John. Ringo is the only consistent one...and maybe HE is the perpetrator in this ruse.

Stop the insanity. No seriously. Stop it.

Originally posted by calcoastseeker
No amount of plastic surgery will fool facial recognition software!

Michael Jackson and Mickey Rourke most definitely would not score near one hundred percent in a facial recognition program which is working properly. They changed nearly every angle and plane on their faces.

Originally posted by brocket99
reply to post by faulconandsnowjob

 

You might seriously be schizo if you believe some of the things you are saying regarding Paul and The Beatles.

You're acting as if The Beatles influence was soooo huge that intelligence agencies from MANY countries got involved.

Your only replies end up being the same old photos at different ages, different weights, different camera angles, different facial expressions, color vs. b & w.

With many of the photos you have posted you could easily make the same argument that EVERY Beatle was replaced at some point.

George looks different in every photo, so does John. Ringo is the only consistent one...and maybe HE is the perpetrator in this ruse.

From this page

LINK

Here is a Faulconandsnowjob comparison of Pauls mouth:





It took about 5 minutes to come up with a photo from the same session that shows this:




In regards to:

With many of the photos you have posted you could easily make the same argument that EVERY Beatle was replaced at some point.

Here is a screen grab from a forum where Faulconandsnowjob is a mod.

only1rad.proboards.com...

Excellent work by the Gorn. I expect you'll be next on the 'dreaded' ignore list after that!

I'm currently watching and enjoying the documentary 'the making of Sgt.Peppers' with interviews with Paul, George, Ringo and George Martin.
It's terrific and it is a quick reminder of just how absurd this whole theory is.

Originally posted by pmexplorer

I'm currently watching and enjoying the documentary 'the making of Sgt.Peppers' with interviews with Paul, George, Ringo and George Martin.
It's terrific and it is a quick reminder of just how absurd this whole theory is.

Or it is an excellent example of the Illusion created around the myth to confuse those who would not think outside the box!

So nothing is possible regarding PID theory?
Nothing is real...subtle clues could well point the way, but you have to be prepared to think outside the box and be open to information gathered from all over the place and compiled into something tangible...

If this is true then the cries of the deniers are cries for help, seeing as they can't accept even the possibility. It has been shewn that there is the strong possibility of at least a Tavistock link AND that doubles had been used decades prior....why is it such a difficult leap to suppose that one of the members of a fabricated band (they got a lot of help to get where they were, not just talent...there were plenty of others as talented as them) was at the least replaced?


Hmmm..pmexplorer....does that stand for Paul Macartney, Exporer?