China fears a US nuclear strike

China also enjoys fatening their pockets with the huge trade imbalance that they have with the US. I saw on CNN a while ago that China has $700 Billions in US reserves. Enough money to buy every American corporation and still have $64 Billions left over. The US enjoys the relationship so that Walmart can bring cheap products to the market at the expense of jobs in the US.

I give up trying to point out the fact that the US isn't the bringer of "Freedom and Democracy" it claims to be. Any point brought up is viewed as America bashing because we(the rest of the world) are jealous. When your empire falls(and it will) I hope it was worth the price of not doing anything.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
you yanks scare me you really do.

thats why i don't think america deserves the right to have the word 'superpower' behind it, america is not exactly a world leader, its certainly not the best nation in solving global issues!!

all americans ever talk about is nuclear weapons - your the only country to ever use them and you'll be the only country stupid enough to use them again.

maybe an upcoming china will be good for the world.

America is Rome at this moment in history, and that in itself is greatness. Even greater is having the power of Rome and also a record, comparable to other pre-eminent powers, of remarkably mute brutality. No country with comparable power ever trod so gently on the rest of the world, something foreigners, like you, often pretend they don't know, but they do. They do because other countries still teach their damn kids history! - which will tell you that in any era, it's some countrys' turn to be "the man" on this planet: The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Mongols, the Arabs, the Spanish, the French, the English, even the Iraquis (Babylonia) - everyone gets a turn to carry the big stick, and when they do, they've all behaved worse than we have.

A nation like the U.S. can't be expected to never get it's uniform a little dirty, but attention must be paid to perspecticve. Rome didn't have a big terrorism problem because when someone would piss them off, they'd kill all the men and sow salt in the Earth so nothing would ever grow there again. Thats a conservative. America does not go to war to rob or exterminate; we don't conquer, we don't plunder and we don't carry off anyone's women and children into slavery and concubing. Name another nation that could conquer the world, but chose not to. A lot of nations have tried, and usually for one reason: they could. They found themselves, like the U.S. now, pre-eminent. And that big stick in their hand was just too much fun not to use.

I am so tired of hearing about the brutality of America's foreign policy from a culture that conquered the world in a century. From the death of Mohammad in 632 to the Battle of Tours in 732, the army coming out of the Arabian desert "converted" half the world in only a hundred years, and you don't do that by handing out flyers and singing "Kumbaya."

[edit on 2/18/2006 by Dr Isaac Yankem DDS]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
you yanks scare me you really do.

thats why i don't think america deserves the right to have the word 'superpower' behind it, america is not exactly a world leader, its certainly not the best nation in solving global issues!!

all americans ever talk about is nuclear weapons - your the only country to ever use them and you'll be the only country stupid enough to use them again.

maybe an upcoming china will be good for the world.

\

Steve, that's a little unfair. The US was completely justified in using what ever messures in ending a brutal war in 1945, it wasn't to punish Japan but end a conflict that could have lasted years (invading mainland Japan). Btw, G.B. has been Nuclear for quite sometime. The main reason the US produced those numbers of nukes was to protect Europe.
I understand why other may be hating but as I've seen it Blair has been a willing partner with US up till now.
The US will not nuke anybody, there is no profit in doing so.

yeah but isn't it the 21st century? - isn't there an old saying that we should learn from the past?

yet to me the US isn't doing that, its still invading (ie:- alfanistan, iraq, iran, maybe syria).

and whilst doing this they use the most famious 3 words we've heard these past few years!!! 'WAR ON TERRORISM' - untrue,

these are just 3 words to fool the public/press on whats really happening!!

america is 'numerio uno' at present and a quote from spiderman "with great power comes great responsibility"

POWER - does not give you the right to invade small defenceless countrys (who can only throw sticks and stones to defend itself) for political gain.

RESPONSBLITY - be a world leader (america is hardly that)

. the climate,
. poverty in africa
etc

america should be leading all these issues, our little but (60 million population) BRITAIN seems lead the responsibility side of things in the world.

all money spent for taking out one 70 year old man (saddam husain) and making iraq a more violent place than it EVER was under saddam has cost america 241 billion.

nationalpriorities.org...

that could have ended poverty in africa and that would have truelly deserved 'RESPECT'!!

Originally posted by Dr Isaac Yankem DDS
America is Rome at this moment in history, and that in itself is greatness. Even greater is having the power of Rome and also a record, comparable to other pre-eminent powers, of remarkably mute brutality.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
yeah but isn't it the 21st century? - isn't there an old saying that we should learn from the past?

yet to me the US isn't doing that, its still invading (ie:- alfanistan, iraq, iran, maybe syria).

and whilst doing this they use the most famious 3 words we've heard these past few years!!! 'WAR ON TERRORISM' - untrue,

these are just 3 words to fool the public/press on whats really happening!!

america is 'numerio uno' at present and a quote from spiderman "with great power comes great responsibility"

POWER - does not give you the right to invade small defenceless countrys (who can only throw sticks and stones to defend itself) for political gain.

RESPONSBLITY - be a world leader (america is hardly that)

. the climate,
. poverty in africa
etc

america should be leading all these issues, our little but (60 million population) BRITAIN seems lead the responsibility side of things in the world.

all money spent for taking out one 70 year old man (saddam husain) and making iraq a more violent place than it EVER was under saddam has cost america 241 billion.

nationalpriorities.org...

that could have ended poverty in africa and that would have truelly deserved 'RESPECT'!!

Originally posted by Dr Isaac Yankem DDS
America is Rome at this moment in history, and that in itself is greatness. Even greater is having the power of Rome and also a record, comparable to other pre-eminent powers, of remarkably mute brutality.

Steve sice when was Iraq this "defenceless little country"?? Iraq had the 4th largest standing army in the world and was run by a dictator who systematically exterminated 400,000 of his own citizens...mainly Kirds. Hussein openly supported terrorism and if you question or deny that you are a lost cause. As far as being a world leader what other country finacially subsidizes the vast majority of third world failing countries...ill tell you who it is the American tax payer....myself and my fellow Americans. As far as "war on terror" I was in NYC on 9/11 and I can tell you that the war on terror is very real, Great Britain had some train bombings the USA lost 3000 people in 30 minutes so give me an F'''ing break. It is true America is the strongest and richest power the world has ever known......but steve do you see USA conquering nations left and right as we easily could do especially during the Reagan years, we dont conquer nations, we cultivate freedom.

Believe me if the USA wanted to conquer the world we could do it in a savage way, much the same way that your humain British government enslaved the world very inclusive of India......those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones my english friend.
[edit on 18-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

You are assuming the US would attack China. Only a madman would do so and I like to beleive the US has sufficiant safe guards in place to prevent one person from launching such an attack.

I don't even see Taiwan invasion as a reason to go tactical. US Navy is well equipt to handle any nation at this point.

I look forward when the US again shares the title of Superpower because you are right. "With great power does come great responsability"

Mate I love Spidey too!

Originally posted by beaburt
China is a very wise and old culture...with the exception of the last 50 years in which Mao murdered 80 million of his own people.

And he freed China of foreigners, bandits and warlords who utterly devasted the nation. He improved the lives of 1.6 BILLION Chinese and set China up to become one of the world's super powers... There isn't even a comparison of the standard of living between now and before the revolution. "With the exception of the last 50 years?" When has China ever in History been a WORLD super power? Jeez, beaburt, please...

China knows the numbers the US has over 10,000 nukes while the PRC has 200-250. The Chinese love numbers , you tell me would you initiate a nuclear war against a force "USA" built by the genius President Reagan and face sure obliteration over Taiwan.....i dont think so.

200 - 250 nukes is enough to destroy the United States... Imagine, 200-250 of U.S.'s biggest cities destroyed... Would the USA face sure obliteration over Taiwan? THAT I DEFINATELY dont think so.

There is "1" God-like power on this planet and that is the USA, the Chinese know this, but at the same time maybe the Chinese communist elite could care less about losing a billion of their citizens in a nuke war with the US.

And what are the Americans willin to lose millions of their own people for? Democracy of Taiwan?

Wow beaburt... you make great points



[edit on 18-2-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by beaburt
Very unfortunately for any nuclear foe of the US it is a fact that we are light years ahead of any nuclear power including Russia, France etc in terms of sheer numbers of warheads and the highly advanced technology to deliver them. Please people lets be real here.

LOL I think someone needs to do some more reading on the Russian nuclear arsenal. The US isn't nay more adavnced in nuclear delivery systems than teh RUssians It could be argued that the Russian's have more advanced missiles than the US. After all the landbased compnent of the US nuclear triad are the aging Minuteman III ICBM's, whereas the Russians are deploying a new mobile ICBM the ss-27/Topol-M.

China is also deploying road mobile ICBM's such as the DF-31 and the newer DF-41.

Also, any nuclkear attack would destroy the consumerist based US economy, where else would you get your cheap consumer products ? not to mention the hundreds of billions of dollars in investment you'd lose.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
China also enjoys fatening their pockets with the huge trade imbalance that they have with the US. I saw on CNN a while ago that China has $700 Billions in US reserves. Enough money to buy every American corporation and still have $64 Billions left over. The US enjoys the relationship so that Walmart can bring cheap products to the market at the expense of jobs in the US.

Incorrect, US corporations combined are worth Trillions of dollars. You night be able to buy say the top 5-10 but no more.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by rogue1]

Mao didnt improve anything, its like saying yeah Hitler brought Germany back from the brink....but oh yeah he murdered 13 million people and set out to exterminate the Jewish population.......K4 its called reading you should try it. It scares me to think that people are as ignorant as you.

The America sucks crowd Side tracks the issue everytime.

I sorry, But what Does US or China Human rights record. Have to do with this thread?

Back to Subject:

Does China Fear The US?

Yes, For the Simple Fact That Chian would be incinerated. And Then The World Would Die from a Global Nuclear Winter. Long live the Cock Roach!

I'd Be happy, If we never invented the "Bleeping" things.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
America,
Maybe if your government had changed its policy toward the Middle East and other muslim countries you wouldn't be fighting a war on terror right now.

Oh! you mean ignore the threat and open the flood gates into your countrylike you have? no thanks....

my country wont be suffering all the riots the european countries do.....

Uhhhh, getting back on topic....

USA has already said (there was even a thread about it) that they wouldn't interfere if China invaded Taiwan, just like China isn't interfering when the US is invading half the middle east.

They are each other's very important trading partners, so niether want to spoil this.

China only has 250 nukes because thats morer than enough to completly destroy the US or any other country or the world, and THEY DO have the capability to hit every US city, not just the west coast..

the reason the US has more than 5,000 nukes is coruption, the govt is corrupt and keeps procuring additional weapons way beyond what it needs because corupt congressmen get bribed by defense contractors to keep buying crap..and most of this garbage is paid for by CHINESE & Japanses money, or the US borrows huge amounts of foreign money to pay for their steadily bankrupting corrupt system..the end result will be the US ceasing to exists when it can't borrow money anymore and states like CAlifornia start breaking from the corrupt central government in WDC..this will likly start to happen next decade, by the 2020s the USA will have collapsed.

And what are the Americans willin to lose millions of their own people for? Democracy of Taiwan?
Wow beaburt... you make great points

No one is willing to loose anything at this point, that's why nothing has happened over Taiwan.

USA has already said (there was even a thread about it) that they wouldn't interfere if China invaded Taiwan, just like China isn't interfering when the US is invading half the middle east.

Can you find a link for it, last time I checked our policy was that we support peaceful reunification but would defend Taiwan if China attacks it.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Can you find a link for it, last time I checked our policy was that we support peaceful reunification but would defend Taiwan if China attacks it.

WestPoint23 is correct, there is a thread about it somewhere.

But do you think you would defend it, if it came to it?

But do you think you would defend it, if it came to it?

Hard to say, it all depend I guess, however that doesn't mean China is eager to call our bluff. Its just one big game of chicken, you don't want to be the first to back out.
Unless the Chinese are 100% sure the US won't retaliate then they won't attack Taiwan. Even though we may not help Taiwan there no way for the PRC to know that, and the risk is simply too big for them to take.

Originally posted by beaburt
Mao didnt improve anything, its like saying yeah Hitler brought Germany back from the brink....but oh yeah he murdered 13 million people and set out to exterminate the Jewish population.......K4 its called reading you should try it. It scares me to think that people are as ignorant as you.

I'M IGNORANT?? Your posts are ignorant beaburt... I gave you a good argument about everything you wrote, and all you can post back is how "I should read more."

Mao didnt improve anything

You obviously don't know anything about modern Chinese history. You have no idea how China was like under the KMT do you? How the elite class exploited so much from the peasants, how the KMT soldiers treated the peasants, HOW THE PEASANTS LIVED.

Mao started the revolution and paved the way for China to become a global power in the world. He saw how foreigners, bandits, and warlords were ripping the country apart and the KMT barely did anything to stop it. He saw how his fellow countrymen were like slaves in their own country and the KMT sided with the foreigners and the elite while the peasants suffered. Though the KMT did try to get rid of bandits and warlords, they utimately failed because they were just too weak. Now Mao, He made his mistakes, but so did every great leader in this world. Look at China now, do you seriously think China would be where it is, with it's standard of living as it is, without Mao and the revolution? Do you even know how life was prior to the communist revolution? Because of Mao, 1.6 billion Chinese are enjoying a better life today. If anyone needs to do more reading here, IT IS YOU. You didn't even respond to my arguments at all... Beaburt, again





[edit on 19-2-2006 by k4rupt]

[edit on 19-2-2006 by k4rupt]

K4, I am very well aware of China and Chinese history. I have actually travelled to China 6 times first time in 1979...most recently in 04. As far as history goes I was a history major in college and spent a great deal of time studying European and Pan-Asian history......so it is very safe to say that my knowledge of China pre Mao is far greater than having wateched "The Sand Pebbles". You still havnt addressed the FACt that Mao murdered 80-100 million Chinese Civilians....he made Pol Pot look like a amateur. Being as learned as you are maybe you can answer why we as historians shouldnt apply your same admiration for Mao and what he did for China to Hitler and what he did for Germany? Look forward to your analysis, and lets keep the numbers accurate Mao murdered 80 million, Hitler murdered 13 million in total.

Originally posted by beaburt
K4, I am very well aware of China and Chinese history. I have actually travelled to China 6 times first time in 1979...most recently in 04. As far as history goes I was a history major in college and spent a great deal of time studying European and Pan-Asian history......so it is very safe to say that my knowledge of China pre Mao is far greater than having wateched "The Sand Pebbles". You still havnt addressed the FACt that Mao murdered 80-100 million Chinese Civilians....he made Pol Pot look like a amateur. Being as learned as you are maybe you can answer why we as historians shouldnt apply your same admiration for Mao and what he did for China to Hitler and what he did for Germany? Look forward to your analysis, and lets keep the numbers accurate Mao murdered 80 million, Hitler murdered 13 million in total.

If you truly know history as well as you say, you would definately understand how life was like for China PRIOR to the revolution. China was a humiliated nation. Do you have any idea how bad it was for the Chinese peasant before Mao came to power?

Congradulations, you have visited China 6 times and there you think you know everything about Chinese history?... My parents have lived through the time period BEFORE and AFTER Mao's revolution. My parents were simple peasants, that had nothing and wanted nothing to do with anything political. They lived through WWII, through the Communist reovlution... I have a first hand account of how life was prior to and after Mao's arrival. They despised Mao for his murder of so many people, but he did make the lives of more than a billion of his people better. Tto say, that Mao did nothing for China, is utterly stupid and ignorant.

I don't need to get into the history of foreigners destroying China before the revolution do I? I'll skip right ahead to his other accomplisments: Mao gave land to the starving milions of poor peasants. Before Mao, the life expectency in China was ONLY 35 years. By the time of Mao's death, it rose up to 70 years. Land reform in China helped lay the groundwork for prosperity today. The emancipation of women and end of child marriages moved China from one of the worst places in the world to be a girl to one where women have more equality than in, say, Japan or Korea. Mao’s entire assault on the old economic and social structure made it easier for China to emerge as the world’s new economic superpower and therefore improving the life of 1.6 Billion Chinese today.

Yes, it's true Mao murdered 80 million people. He made huge mistakes and everyone acknowledges this. According to Deng Xiaoping, Mao was "seven parts right and three parts wrong", and his "contributions are primary and his mistakes secondary." Meaning, what he did for the nation and for the lives of 1.6 billion people, will always overshadow his mistakes.

[quote[" As far as history goes I was a history major in college and spent a great deal of time studying European and Pan-Asian history......so it is very safe to say that my knowledge of China pre Mao is far greater than having wateched "The Sand Pebbles"."

Oh really? And yet you say Mao did NOTHING for China? Either you are lying or you are so extremely biased, you have blinded yourself from Mao's accomplishments. Your experience makes you seem to be a knowledgeable man, but some of your previous statements seem absurd, completely childish, and beyond ignorant. I think it would be best if you should really retract some of your statements...

[edit on 19-2-2006 by k4rupt]

This history lesson is quite informative but has nothing to do with the topic. Do you 2 want to take this debate to another thread, preferably on entitled, "Chinese history".