British Troops Videoed Beating Iraqi Teens

Originally posted by ArchAngel
How are these guys any different than Saddams Army?

At least they were Iraqis......

Ahem, I'd assume that ' Saddams Army ' would have just taken them out the back and shot them. Come to think of it I doubt many protestors would hvae survived in that crowd, if it were ' Saddams Army '.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Rocks have now turned to grenades?

Talk about trying to further your argument

If you view the video you will hear one go off very near the start of the video in the background. I missed it the first time around myself no big deal.

Stop Press - two more arrested by UK Military Police in connection with the video / beatings - just on BBC now

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Something can control that process. It's called self control.

So if I point a gun at your family member then you wont be afraid?
If someone shoots your mate next to you and you catch the guy wouldnt you be angry at him?

You'd expect that people trained in the use of deadly force may be trained to control that deadly force.

You cant control your emotions totally, even you being so high and mighty that you can control all your emotions , must lose control once.

By your logic, if someone cut's me off while driving to work, it's okay to drag them from their car, beat them, and kick them in their nuts, becasue "nothing on Earth can control, stop or slow down" my anger and frustration.

So your saying someone cutting you off is comparable to trying to kill someone?
Your going to start giving murderers traffic tickets?

Originally posted by devilwasp
You cant control your emotions totally, even you being so high and mighty that you can control all your emotions , must lose control once.

By your logic, if someone cut's me off while driving to work, it's okay to drag them from their car, beat them, and kick them in their nuts, becasue "nothing on Earth can control, stop or slow down" my anger and frustration.

So your saying someone cutting you off is comparable to trying to kill someone?
Your going to start giving murderers traffic tickets?

It's true that I don't always have 100% control of my emotions, no one does. But when I lose control of my emotions, I don't hurt people. My traffic comparison is to be viewed from the eye of the driver, who could die if he lost control of the vehicle.

You also brought up the point of a man pointing a gun at my family. Yes I would be angry, and do anything necessary to defend myself and family. If I restrained the attacker, and handcuffed them, then beat them mercilessly, I would GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL!!! No matter if I felt it was right at the time, it would still be wrong.

Where is the line drawn, and by whom? This kid threw rocks at me, this guy cut me off, my dinner wasn't cooked properly, this place is a pig-sty, I'm angry and don't know how to stop myself from beating people who are smaller than me.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
It's true that I don't always have 100% control of my emotions, no one does. But when I lose control of my emotions, I don't hurt people. My traffic comparison is to be viewed from the eye of the driver, who could die if he lost control of the vehicle.

Now thats not totally true, I mean do you control everything you do and know how it will affect others?

You also brought up the point of a man pointing a gun at my family. Yes I would be angry, and do anything necessary to defend myself and family. If I restrained the attacker, and handcuffed them, then beat them mercilessly, I would GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL!!! No matter if I felt it was right at the time, it would still be wrong.

Yes I agree you would and its not right but frankly the thing is you know in yourself there is a part of you deep down that can will do thing like this.
Unfortunatly these soldiers let that part take control because after all , emotions are the basic form of thought.

Where is the line drawn, and by whom? This kid threw rocks at me, this guy cut me off, my dinner wasn't cooked properly, this place is a pig-sty, I'm angry and don't know how to stop myself from beating people who are smaller than me.

Well the line is drawn by what YOU see is correct, but in reality its drawn by those with money who write the rules.
The kids did throw a hand grenade at them, you might be a bit annoyed to if you had a hand grenade thrown at you.

I may be annoyed, but If I gave out a beating, I would know what I did wrong, and why I was being punished for it. The central point is that for every action there is a reaction. If I threw an object at someone, I'd expect retaliation. If I beat up someone in retaliation, I'd expect reprocussions. these reprocussions, deservedly so, is hopefully jail-time in this case. Anywhere else it would be.

As Eric Idle once said
"Better than staying at home, isn't this, sir? Eh? I mean, at home, if you kill someone, they arrest you. Here, they give you a gun and show you what to do, sir.
I mean, I killed fifteen of those buggers, sir. Now, at home, they'd hang me! Here, they'll give me a %&#$*@# medal, sir!"
(Edit: sorry, I got the wrong Python)

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I may be annoyed, but If I gave out a beating, I would know what I did wrong, and why I was being punished for it. The central point is that for every action there is a reaction. If I threw an object at someone, I'd expect retaliation. If I beat up someone in retaliation, I'd expect reprocussions. these reprocussions, deservedly so, is hopefully jail-time in this case. Anywhere else it would be.

Well whats right and wrong to you is not the same as me is it?
Or are we going to believe the lie that is the law?

As Eric Idle once said
"Better than staying at home, isn't this, sir? Eh? I mean, at home, if you kill someone, they arrest you. Here, they give you a gun and show you what to do, sir.
I mean, I killed fifteen of those buggers, sir. Now, at home, they'd hang me! Here, they'll give me a %&#$*@# medal, sir!"
(Edit: sorry, I got the wrong Python)

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Rasobasi420]

....Right then...

Originally posted by shots

If you view the video you will hear one go off very near the start of the video in the background. I missed it the first time around myself no big deal.

That sounds more like gunshots then a explosion.i've heard small firechackers louder than that.

And when the british troops then run at them, the ground is clean and no sign of sharpnel or signs there was a explosion.

Originally posted by chinawhite

That sounds more like gunshots then a explosion.i've heard small firechackers louder than that.

And when the british troops then run at them, the ground is clean and no sign of sharpnel or signs there was a explosion.

Thats what it appeared to be to me.

The fact that the other soldiers all walked by as if nothing out of the ordinary was happening shows this was far from the first time.

Many accounts all over the arab media of abuse are vindicated by this video.

Its a program, not one single incident, and accepted as normal by those doing it.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by ArchAngel]

Someone should go into Iraq and bring some freedom and democracy. I mean, if you commit a crime, you should be accused of a crime, arrested, given a trial. It's very popular in Western nations, although not as popular as it once was in the US.

Sure, you could beat people from a random sampling of rock throwers, but I lead it would be best to lead by example. Show them why the occupation is a good thing. We are supposed to help freedom on the march. Not more of the same corruption and human rights abuses.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
The fact that the other soldiers all walked by as if nothing out of the ordinary was happening shows this was far from the first time.

It looks like they were trying their best to run at the protestors.

Well it probaly wouldn't be the first time they got rocks thrown at them. Maybe when they set up camp in their town and maybe after they started home invasion.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by ArchAngel
The fact that the other soldiers all walked by as if nothing out of the ordinary was happening shows this was far from the first time.

It looks like they were trying their best to run at the protestors.

I'm fairly sure he means as the soldiers are beating the Iraqis. Halfway through a large group of soldiers walk in casually to watch them getting beaten up. ArchAngel is right, it does appear as if they had seen it before.

Oh i get what you mean now.

But when you watch the video. Some of them join in and some of them dont. They dont look surprised, but how would you act yourself when you come in and see some of your "buddies" beating up some kids

I don't think anyone's suggesting soldiers have never seen someone get beaten up. They are, after all, in the Army

I'm sure it's happened before but not caught on video and will have happened since.

I'm also sure UK troops aren't the only ones doing it / others are doing worse.

Is the issue here with the soldiers, with the situation they've been placed in, or our collective unrealistic view of what real life low level combat actually involves?

Originally posted by ArchAngel


Thats what it appeared to be to me.

The fact that the other soldiers all walked by as if nothing out of the ordinary was happening shows this was far from the first time.

Many accounts all over the arab media of abuse are vindicated by this video.

Its a program, not one single incident, and accepted as normal by those doing it.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by ArchAngel]

BS, I have already pointed out that atleast one man is unsure about this, just because they walk by doesnt mean anything.

For all they know the men could have been resisting arrest or tried to attack one of the soldiers, hell one of them could have been armed for all they knew.

But ofcourse you'll ignore this and continue on saying that british soldiers are racist, bullies and overall unhumane and how we should go home and never leave it and all members of the british army should be arrested and tried as warcriminals.
Ooops sorry was I generalising again?
Damm its a habit I've picked up from these threads.

Two more held over Iraq 'abuse' video

Basra suspends relations with the British

Two Iraqis claim they were abuse victims

politics.guardian.co.uk...

I think we can end supposition that it was a fake.

BS, I have already pointed out that atleast one man is unsure about this, just because they walk by doesnt mean anything.

For all they know the men could have been resisting arrest or tried to attack one of the soldiers, hell one of them could have been armed for all they knew.

No matter what they were supposing the soldiers know they are not judge, jury, and punisher.

There is no justification for it, yet everyone there seemed to accept it as normal.

That makes it TWICE as bad.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Some of them join in and some of them dont. They dont look surprised, but how would you act yourself when you come in and see some of your "buddies" beating up some kids

Me, I'd try to stop them. I most definitely would not take part in it.

Originally posted by devilwasp
But ofcourse you'll ignore this and continue on saying that british soldiers are racist, bullies and overall unhumane and how we should go home and never leave it and all members of the british army should be arrested and tried as warcriminals.

No, of course not. But those soldiers involved should be arrested and tried as war criminals.

Originally posted by ArchAngel


No matter what they were supposing the soldiers know they are not judge, jury, and punisher.

There is no justification for it, yet everyone there seemed to accept it as normal.

That makes it TWICE as bad.

The quote below is taken from your link to the Guardian News Paper.

Assailants in the crowd lobbed three explosive devices at them, believed to be hand grenades, the British military reported later that day. Today Mr Shaker said: "A group of British soldiers then rushed out from their base and arrested nine of us, dragging us for about 30 metres to the governor's office.

These soldiers are in a War zone for Gods sake. When grenades are thrown, they have to act. That, in my eyes, is the justification for it. If they get the perpetrators that did it, then fine.

After all, the alleged abuse is far better than being shot and killed for throwing grenades.
I do find it strange, that now it has come to light after two years, that more and more are going to jump on the band wagon. Human nature i suppose. It's odds on that there is more footage of this alleged assault. How about the footage of what happened prior to these Iraq's being arrested?

But hey, lets all listen to the arm chair brigade about rights and wrongs that the Coalition have done. How about listening to someone thats been there, and find out what it is like to have explosives thrown at you? How they deal with it etc etc.

No, i haven't been there, but my son has, and some of his stories are shocking. And yes, i will stand up for the troops, and for what they do and what they go through. I will stand up for them against the arm chair brigade who thinks it knows better than the people in the field.
Flame me all you like. I stand by what i wrote, and nothing will change it.

Eddie out..............................................