British Troops Videoed Beating Iraqi Teens

I think the standard of officers all over the world might be dropping.
This is a general observation.
Anything to do with influences the new gen (1990s) has been under?
Sad thing to say esp since I'm from the same generation

You cant seperate emotions, emotions define us, emotions guide us.

Who's us then? I aint part of us, so keep that in mind please. Emotions define and guide EMOTIONAL people. Those who write and administer laws, as well as scientists, and members of a number of other professions, are generally considered RATIONAL people, and so it is reason and logic that define them and guide them.

A soldier is a tool, not a wild animal to be let loose in the enemy's territory. If he doesn't kill when his CO tells him to, or kills without being told, he's a liability, plain and simple. Hauling off and beating down some kids isn't the same thing, but I think it illustrates a weakness in the ability of the force to act in accordance with its role.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I happen to think if you're going to occupy a country, it behooves you to employ police tactics and not lynch mob tactics.



[edit on 14-2-2006 by WyrdeOne]

those kids got what they deserved, as far as we know they could of thrown a crappy diy grenade that didnt go off, if the terrorists were attacking them they would be dead, the troops also should not get any serious punishment.

As far as beating wise, if anyone thinks that was a serious beating you must be a pussy. you relize that anyone who has ever wrestled or done any sort of martial arts where you fight other people knows that wasnt even close to a beating. i get together with my army ranger friends from highschool time for barbecues and we wrestle harder than that. if those troops really wanted to beat those kids they would be dead right now, they were #ing with them obviously.

OK so you are the soldiers.

You're in a country (forget the reasons why you're there) where there's unrest.

Kids throw grenades at your compound

Do you?

a. shoot them and also risk hitting possibly other less-guilty rioters & innocent bystanders

b. go unarmed (apart from a baton) into the crowd to snatch those responsible.

Many many armies would just go for option a. very few have the professionalism & confidence to go for option b

So you have these guys in your custody.

Do you?

a. hand them over to a suspect Police force with a real expectation they won't be punished or detained and may be back next week doing the same

b. shoot them - after all they're armed 'enemy combatants'

c. give them a mild kicking, teach them a lesson and maybe convince them it's not a good idea to throw grenades at armed troops

Option a is the correct one but you can see the squaddies' POV that it's not a viable option. Option b is abhorent and unjustified although a few armies would probably stoop this low.

Option c is not ideal but it's the 'least worst'

This whole drama is whipped up by those who sit in safe newsrooms 000's of miles away & have no idea about combat and the stresses & temptations of those we pay very poorly to go into harm's way on our behalf.

These Iraqis should be very grateful it was the British Army (and this particular unit) they chose to try and kill.

Other armies wouldn't have been so constrained. If they'd done this to the US, Italians, Iraqi trainee forces etc they'd be dead.

If they'd done this to the Gurkas they'd have found out what a kicking really is.

Originally posted by Strangerous
Kids throw grenades at your compound

Rocks have now turned to grenades?

Talk about trying to further your argument

must be some of those english multi-purpose rocks, ya know the ones that can be used to spy...maybe they can be programmed to blow up too?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Who's us then?

The human species perhaps?

I aint part of us, so keep that in mind please. Emotions define and guide EMOTIONAL people. Those who write and administer laws, as well as scientists, and members of a number of other professions, are generally considered RATIONAL people, and so it is reason and logic that define them and guide them.

So your now sayign that rational peopel dont get emotional?
Ha! Ok mate, what ever you want to believe...

A soldier is a tool, not a wild animal to be let loose in the enemy's territory. If he doesn't kill when his CO tells him to, or kills without being told, he's a liability, plain and simple. Hauling off and beating down some kids isn't the same thing, but I think it illustrates a weakness in the ability of the force to act in accordance with its role.

A soldier is more than a tool, a soldier can or cannot kill if it breaks the regs.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I happen to think if you're going to occupy a country, it behooves you to employ police tactics and not lynch mob tactics.
[edit on 14-2-2006 by WyrdeOne]

People get emotional , angry and frightened. Nothing on earth can control, stop or slow down that process.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Rocks have now turned to grenades?

Talk about trying to further your argument

Mabye you didnt notice the DIY grenade part in the NOTW report?


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Mabye you didnt notice the DIY grenade part in the NOTW report?

I saw no grenade in the video, and I watched it several times.

I'm not sure where the author got the idea that a grenade was thrown, but he did say it.

Just because he said it does not make it true.

Maybe you could point out to us where the grenade was thrown because no one else can seem to find it.

I wonder if its not a false statement designed to soften the blow of the pictures.....

You're watching an extract of the video - in the stills there's a clear explosion

Let's get this in context - IDF, US Army etc regularly shoot stone throwers dead. IDF has shot young girls on the off chance thay can throw a non-explosive school bag 60 metres!!

Some little hooligans got a mild kicking after trying to blind/brain UK soldiers. As I say they're lucky it was the Brits who were their target.

Plus we're investigating it and some squaddies may well do time for this - no 14 dead italian skiers = a quick discharge on full pension for us - we're not US Army / USAF.

You're watching an extract of the video - in the stills there's a clear explosion

Is it an explosion, or flame from a bottle full of gasoline?

The two are very different.

No matter how you justify it, it does not matter.

No matter what you have to say about it, it does not matter.

What matters is what the rest of the world, especially the Arab world, sees and thinks.

Have a look here and see if they are talking about explosions, or attacks on the soldiers.

The footage starts off with disturbance in the street outside the troops’ military compound. The soldiers appear chasing Iraqi teens, beating them with clubs and kicking them in the genitals, one appeared kicking a dead Iraqi in the face. The cameraman is heard insulting the Iraqi youngsters, saying "Oh yes! Oh yes! You're gonna get it. Yes, naughty little boys!"

“Caution is in order, not least because a previous set of abuse pictures turned out to be fakes”, said an article published earlier on UK’s The Guardian.

Extracts of the video and images showing some of the brutal scenes were broadcast as quickly as never any scandal reached TV stations or the Arab and Muslim media.

Another episode in “Iraq War Crimes” series

What you see, and what the world sees are not the same.

Most of it is the same, but the details shown are put in different perspectives.

Half of propaganda is what they do not tell you, and you are getting propaganda just as much as they are.

The results are that much of the world has greater reason to hate the western world.

Because of what they saw, and because they did not see mass protests by us against our governments for what is happening.

If you don't speak out obviously you support and encorage it....

They showed on the news tonight, the first part of the video, which showed the British compound being shelled, by mortars or maybe someone tossing grenades.
Just goes to show what a creative edit can do, video is very easy to manipulate especially with heavy editing

Originally posted by devilwasp

You're entitled to your opinion, but I happen to think if you're going to occupy a country, it behooves you to employ police tactics and not lynch mob tactics.
[edit on 14-2-2006 by WyrdeOne]

People get emotional , angry and frightened. Nothing on earth can control, stop or slow down that process.

Something can control that process. It's called self control. You'd expect that people trained in the use of deadly force may be trained to control that deadly force. By your logic, if someone cut's me off while driving to work, it's okay to drag them from their car, beat them, and kick them in their nuts, becasue "nothing on Earth can control, stop or slow down" my anger and frustration.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Half of propaganda is what they do not tell you, and you are getting propaganda just as much as they are.

If you want to talk about propaganda, then kindly explain where the now dead iraqi came from????



I have watched the video several times and each and every one of those that were beaten were moving, now aljazeera has one of them dead Huh???? talk about lies and propaganda, well you certainly gave a prime example of those you support haven't you?

I have watched the video several times and each and every one of those that were beaten were moving, now aljazeera has one of them dead Huh???? talk about lies and propaganda, well you certainly gave a prime example of those you support haven't you?

When did I ever say I support AJ.com?

I support equal rights for all, and what I saw on the video was not Justice.

Try to keep the subject about the video, and article.

Not me.

Originally posted by rogue1
They showed on the news tonight, the first part of the video, which showed the British compound being shelled, by mortars or maybe someone tossing grenades.
Just goes to show what a creative edit can do, video is very easy to manipulate especially with heavy editing

Then they missed the boat by not putting that out first.

The damage is done.

And no matter what happened before their actions were not justified.

What you saw there was a warcrime.

I'm sure many would like to use a different word, but that does not change the fact that it was a warcrime.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Then they missed the boat by not putting that out first.

The damage is done.

And no matter what happened before their actions were not justified.

Makes me wonder what the motivations of the News of the World are

What you saw there was a warcrime.

I'm sure many would like to use a different word, but that does not change the fact that it was a warcrime.

You'd call a Brtish soldier littering a warcrime as well . Besides it didn't look that like that harsh a beating.

So who decides when it becomes unacceptable? How many times can they beat them on the head with batons or kick them in the crotch before it's no longer acceptable?

They had them under control in an enclosed area and were beating them for fun and revenge, multiple soldiers to each Iraqi. That is always unacceptable, under every circumstance. It is the Soldier's place to follow orders and defend himself in the process. Those Iraqis no longer posed a threat once they were under control and at that point all violent actions stop immediately and you take them to be detained.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
talk about lies and propaganda, well you certainly gave a prime example of those you support haven't you?

When did I ever say I support
AJ.com?

Hum I did not say you supported Aljazeera, I said "those you support"

I support equal rights for all, and what I saw on the video was not Justice.

Sorry but that is not fooling anyone and from what I just saw was your posting information that was an out right lie. There were no dead Iraqis. You are the one using that useless source not me.

Originally posted by LoganCale
So who decides when it becomes unacceptable? How many times can they beat them on the head with batons or kick them in the crotch before it's no longer acceptable?

They had them under control in an enclosed area and were beating them for fun and revenge, multiple soldiers to each Iraqi. That is always unacceptable, under every circumstance. It is the Soldier's place to follow orders and defend himself in the process. Those Iraqis no longer posed a threat once they were under control and at that point all violent actions stop immediately and you take them to be detained.

Very well said.

It served no purpose other than to inflame the people any more, and to vent their uncontroled hatred.

Thats what happens when you give soldiers dicrtatorial powers.

How are these guys any different than Saddams Army?

At least they were Iraqis......

Hum I did not say you supported Aljazeera, I said "those you support"

Well, spit it our already so we can move on.

Who do you think I support?