Childhood Vaccinations??

Originally posted by bsl4doc

I think it's a language difficulty - BSdoc's quote says, "About 90 percent of all autistic children are entered into the system before the age of 6" - which he interprets to mean "Children may be diagnosed prior to 6, but they ARE NOT ENTERED INTO THE DATA SYSTEM."

Hmmm. And he consistently craps all over anyone who speaks up, speaks out, or questions dogma or the status quo. And puts them down. Quite rudely too. Wonder what that's about?

It's probably about people like you, KDX, and bigpappadiaz who put words in my and other people's mouths, twist my words, and generally act like school children.

Mon cher deetwald - I did NOT put words into your mouth, I quoted you word for word. Copied and pasted as it were. Unlike as is your wont. In fact, YOU do all the time what you say others do. Hmmmm.

How bout we stick to the topic, huh?

I think it's a language difficulty - BSdoc's quote says, "About 90 percent of all autistic children are entered into the system before the age of 6" - which he interprets to mean "Children may be diagnosed prior to 6, but they ARE NOT ENTERED INTO THE DATA SYSTEM."

So that's no putting words into my mouth? Hm, interesting point of view you have. You must be an American Republican, no?

Lei è uno spreco di ossigeno.
~MFP

The thimerosal was used as a preservative to prevent microbes from growing in the vaccinia stores. The chick albumin, cow serum, and simian kidney cells were are used to grow the virus since we obviously can't use humans to grow them and viruses need live tissue to survive

Why in the world would they use a poison (if I am correct I believe I saw it listed in a post earlier as being the SECOND most deadliest poison/toxin) on the planet as a preservative to use in something to inject into our bodies? It seems to me it wouldn't take a medical doctor to figure out (through years of studies on HUMAN TEST OBJECTS) that this wasn't a very good idea!!!

Just a Thought.

Why in the world would they use a poison (if I am correct I believe I saw it listed in a post earlier as being the SECOND most deadliest poison/toxin) on the planet as a preservative to use in something to inject into our bodies? It seems to me it wouldn't take a medical doctor to figure out (through years of studies on HUMAN TEST OBJECTS) that this wasn't a very good idea!!!

No, thimerosal is not the second most toxic compound, neither is mercury the most toxic element. Thimerosal has never been conclusively proven to cause anything in proper dosage. The amount used in vaccines was 0.001% - 0.01%, the amount shown to kill nearly all prokaryotic pathogens. This means in one vaccine, you are getting 25 micrograms, that's 25 x 10^(-6) grams or .000025g of mercury. There have been studies in which people received up to 1 mg(that's 1000 micrograms or 40 times the amount in pre-2000 vaccines) per kg and experienced little to no adverse effects, as seen in the link below.

www.fda.gov...

Thank you for clearing that up. Now that the vaccines are Thimerosal free, what is the alternative preservative that is used currently? Have there been any studies done on the alternative preservatives to ensure there safety or do they contain adverse side effects as well?
Does the same apply to the aluminum that is/was used in other vaccines as well?

Originally posted by dirty_underground
I think it's great all these parents jumping on the wagon to blame others (especially those that may be trying to help them) for their children's behavior. It's all too common these days for parents, doctors, teachers, etc...to blame so called behavioral problems on other factors then to accept responsibility. ADHD has become "epidemic" here in America simply because it's easier to give a kid a pill then to deal with the child itself. Autism Spectrum Disorders! There is a difference in children that have actual Autism to those that just have "ASD." I know of a child that was "diagnosed" with ASD, he was normal, he just has an actual personality and an opinion on what he liked and wanted.

hmmm 'Do you have a child that spent 2 weeks in hospital close to death after having vaccination?' Do you have a child that was healthy/alert prior to being immunised, then to regress to point of having to learn to speak again???????'

just curious... u r quick to jump in and attack parents with your easier to give a kid a pill statement.... pity GP's dont do thorough tests before they write out script for ritalin....! My earlier advice to a parent about 'getting thorough tests' was heeded and when the tests came back the child didnt have ADD/ADHD...the child was suffering copper poisoning...

Since there still might be some confusion about ethyl versus methyl mercury...

Methylmercury (MeHg) - being the kind found in seafood
Ethylmercury (Hg) - being the kind found in Thimerosal

I wanted to present this ETHYL/METHYL study done on primates in April 2005, (which is a very recent study and I hadn't seen it before! I just found it!!)

Burbacher-EHP-Primates-April-2005.pdf

Quote from the Study:

There was a much higher proportion of inorganic Hg in the brain of thimerosal
infants than MeHg infants (up to 71% vs. 10%). Absolute inorganic Hg concentrations in
the brains of the thimerosal-exposed infants were approximately twice that of the MeHg
infants.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by KDX175DUEX]

Don't put your child at harm just because of some negative effects that MAY or MAY NOT happen. Some people can die from allergic reactions to anything (peanuts, bee stings, shell fish, etc...) that doesn't mean that the entire world should ban the use of a product based on a few people's reaction.

NJE777, If you intend on quoting me, atleast quote the rest of the story. I do not doubt that negative reactions may occur due to vaccines. I simply stated that you shouldn't put your children at risk of diseases that can be prevented simply because SOME people have negative reactions. Lots of people spend time in the hospital for adverse side effects/allergic reactions to medications and such. Does this mean we should ban the use of all of these products and items just because a few people have them while in others it may save lives. Open your mind just a bit please to fully comprehend what I am trying to say.

Originally posted by dirty_underground
I simply stated that you shouldn't put your children at risk of diseases that can be prevented simply because SOME people have negative reactions.

I have a sybling who is suffering a life time reaction to vaccines. Sometimes those SOME are in the same families.. this 'sensitivity' seems to be genetic so sorry but I'm not going to take a gamble on their entire lives because you like the odds. 'Just because'?! That 'just because' can be condemning a child to a entire lifetime filled with medications, complete dependence, institutions and no friends. I don't give a crap how often it happens.. it's not good enough.

Lots of people spend time in the hospital for adverse side effects/allergic reactions to medications and such. Does this mean we should ban the use of all of these products and items just because a few people have them while in others it may save lives.

Another 'sacrifice a few to protect the many'. So long as YOUR child doesn't sick you think it's okay for other people's to become retarded? Thats disgraceful.

Originally posted by dirty_underground

.. I simply stated that you shouldn't put your children at risk of diseases that can be prevented simply because SOME people have negative reactions. Lots of people spend time in the hospital for adverse side effects/allergic reactions to medications and such. Does this mean we should ban the use of all of these products and items just because a few people have them while in others it may save lives. ..

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, but from what i see, these adverse effects need to be investigated.

I know all we have is basically anecdotal evidence, but it warrants a closer look, doesn't it? i don't know how much research is being done on the subject, but it seems fairly obvious that the general consensus is not to question certain vaccines and vaccination practices, apparently due to fears that people would decline inoculation if debate ensued.

Silence is a good servant but a poor master if you know what i mean.

Originally posted by Demetre
All of My research was done years ago. My son is 9 and had His last vaccination right before starting school in Aug. 2001. This was about the same time My daughter got Her last ones too, give or take a few months due to birthday differences. I believe it was Her 18 mo. shots. The innoculations they recieved contained mercury.

Morning! I was specifically trying to address your point that MMR contained thiomersal (or mercury). Could you post a link to show that it does? The link I provided for you in my last post showed that (in the UK, at least) MMR is mercury free.

Don't worry about any measles outbreak. There's what's called 'herd immunity'. Another reason I had no problems refusing vaccines.

Did you read the Coburg link? Herd immunity exists because of MMR!

Here it is again:

coburg outbreak


I apologize if the first link I posted in this thread (herd immunity) is a Clinical Evidence paysite

Here's another link to a definition of 'herd immunity'. It's about 5 slides 'in' to the lecture

vaccination lecture

Herd immunity falls due to people not vaccinating their kids? Hello! measles outbreak and lot of sick children!

I've just sort of tried to keep this on MMR, because the debate can slide off topic really quickly, but, really, do you have a problem with Hepatitis B vaccinations too?

TD


[edit on 2-2-2006 by TaupeDragon]

Originally posted by dirty_underground

NJE777, If you intend on quoting me, atleast quote the rest of the story. I do not doubt that negative reactions may occur due to vaccines. I simply stated that you shouldn't put your children at risk of diseases that can be prevented simply because SOME people have negative reactions. Lots of people spend time in the hospital for adverse side effects/allergic reactions to medications and such. Does this mean we should ban the use of all of these products and items just because a few people have them while in others it may save lives. Open your mind just a bit please to fully comprehend what I am trying to say.

ok well yes, I have been guilty of mis quoting b4... sorry went off half baked lol

Immunisations are a good thing...collectively...it is unfortunate for some who have allergic reactions..like the peanut example you mention. I think the biggest hurdle for the Medicine Fraternity to step forward and admit they stuffed up with the preservative is because of the indeterminate liability issue...why it would be a 'western' global class action... why would they want to step forward and say..um we stuffed up. Better to subtely fix it and deny deny deny...

anyway this is my mumble opinion........

Originally posted by Long Lance
I know all we have is basically anecdotal evidence, but it warrants a closer look, doesn't it? i don't know how much research is being done on the subject, but it seems fairly obvious that the general consensus is not to question certain vaccines and vaccination practices, apparently due to fears that people would decline inoculation if debate ensued.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think the work in Finland on a good few hundred thousand children confirms the safety and efficacy of MMR, at least

repeated bandolier link

I appreciate that people here have got very sincerely held beliefs, but where are the large scale human studies that show any problem with MMR? Anecdote makes for powerful reading, but does it make for powerful *evidence* in public health policy?

TD


[edit on 2-2-2006 by TaupeDragon]

Originally posted by bsl4doc
I'm going to try to make myself clear one more time

R u the medical student?
hope I have the right person.... now I hope you have informed people that your not a certified medical practioner...you are not legally certified to make yourself clear and clear again and again.... perhaps you need to stress to people...to seek a registered Medical Practioner's opinion on the matter and that your advice is bona fide ... in good faith for those not up with latin

R u the medical student?
hope I have the right person.... now I hope you have informed people that your not a certified medical practioner...you are not legally certified to make yourself clear and clear again and again.... perhaps you need to stress to people...to seek a registered Medical Practioner's opinion on the matter and that your advice is bona fide ... in good faith for those not up with latin

Umm...why does me not being a doctor mean I can't make myself clear when someone asks me to explain my point? Maybe I just don't understand your strange Aussie logic, I mean, you guys are pretty far south and live with kangaroos, wombats, etc.

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Maybe I just don't understand your strange Aussie logic, I mean, you guys are pretty far south and live with kangaroos, wombats, etc.

IMO you've just killed your integrity with this so you shouldn't worry about people not understanding you.

Hey riley, it was a joke. Do you honestly think I believe Australians use different laws of logic based on what animals live in their country? I was pointing out that she said I have no right to clarify myself to someone who asked for clarification because I don't have my medical degree yet, which is ridiculous and doesn't even make sense.

Get a sense of humour and stop making baseless accusations.

Buongiorno
~MFP

[edit on 2/2/2006 by bsl4doc]

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Hey riley, it was a joke.

Relatively speaking.

Do you honestly think I believe Australians use different laws of logic based on what animals live in their country?

No. I just think that type of thing belongs in BTS not serious conversation.. but I concede I did over-react.

I was pointing out that she said I have no right to clarify myself to someone who asked for clarification because I don't have my medical degree yet, which is ridiculous and doesn't even make sense.

I think, reviewing the thread, you need to put things in leyman's terms. I do not think anyone's opinion is more 'superior' here as many of us have researched on our own, while some have been schooled. It is good to have experts to explain/clarify the specific details of something.. but it doesn't mean they'll always be right as the experts can't even agree with eachother.

Get a sense of humour and stop making baseless accusations.

What baseless accusations? I just don't like derogatory generalisations.

Buongiorno
~MFP

Thats right.. you're an italian..

[edit on 2-2-2006 by riley]

[QUOTE]you've just killed your integrity [/QUOTE]
THAT baseless accusation, and what was the "you're an italian" quote about, huh?

Gli italiani hanno più cultura di lei mai avrà.

Vaffanculo, Riley. Ciao,

~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc
[QUOTE]you've just killed your integrity [/QUOTE]

Also said IMO [with me].. I am an aussie.

THAT baseless accusation, and what was the "you're an italian" quote about, huh?

Making a point which you didn't understand.

Gli italiani hanno più cultura di lei mai avrà.

Vaffanculo

That second line isn't very cultured.

Back on topic:
Anyone got an explanation as to why many autistics have excessive amounts of mercury in their systems?

[edit on 2-2-2006 by riley]