Childhood Vaccinations??

This is the way I read it....

"The Institutes of Medicine (IOM) thoroughly reviewed all studies of thimerosal and concluded that there is not enough evidence to determine whether or not neurodevelopmental disorders (autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and speech or language delay) can be caused by thimerosal exposure from childhood vaccines. "

there is not enough evidence to determine whether or not

there is not enough evidence to determine whether or not

there is not enough evidence to determine whether or not


And I would like to know how a couple of "CDC studies" that were not done very well.... magically fixes the Facts about Mercury. LINK

A couple of statistical epidemiologists in a mock study say so, so it must all be ok now?

FredT - Excuse me but I find your approach conceeded.
and your attutude towards the unfortunate 1 in 166 distasteful.









[edit on 1-2-2006 by KDX175DUEX]

bsl4doc
If you had read my link you would know environmental contamination is what I'm referring to, when I speak of the Mercury problem. As I said in my last post, the ethylmercury used in vaccines is probably not a major culprit in childhood autism. More likely, severe contamination of the entire environment, including the food, water, and air supply, with methylmercury.

Originally posted by KDX175DUEX
FredT - Excuse me but I find your approach conceeded.
and your attutude towards the unfortunate 1 in 166 distasteful.
[edit on 1-2-2006 by KDX175DUEX]

Nice strawman, but back to the point:

From the external source above:

The law relating to VAERS reporting is misstated. Most VAERS-reported conditions fall into a category in which voluntary and passive, not mandatory or required, events after immunization are recorded. Only a specific set of more severe adverse events are specified as mandatory under the Vaccine Injury Table, and even then, reporting is inconsistent.
Conclusions of the 2001 Institute of Medicine Immunization Safety Review Committee report2 as to what constitutes maximal permissible dose exposures to mercury are misinterpreted, and misleading statements are made concerning federal safety guidelines for mercury exposure levels that might be expected to cause harm.

The authors fail to depict accurately the differences between pharmacokinetics of and exposure to methylmercury (found in contaminated food) and ethylmercury (found in thimerosal) and make unsubstantiated assumptions about the risks of the route of exposure (ingested versus injected).

Adult heart disease is included as a possible thimerosal-related condition, although heart arrest reports in very young children are used in the analysis. Heart arrest in very young children (a common term used on pediatric death certificates and often unrelated to the actual cause of death) has nothing to do with adult coronary heart disease. The authors’ implication that thimerosal in vaccines is a cause of acute cardiotoxic events is unfounded in any scientific or clinical reports and represents a misuse of the terminology found in VAERS reports.
www.aap.org...

(It goes on with many points)

Also, I am perplexed to your comments as to finding "being the one" distastefull. Its simply a cold fact without any emotional context whatsoever. Somebody has to be in that spot. My Mother and mother in law were that 1:100,000,000 that developed a speciifc subtype of AML and were both allergic to the prime medication used to treat it. Its a fact plain and simple (as weird as the odds were that two of them with no common background would have the same problem and both die from it). Nor am I being conceded in anyway. We all have our demons to fight don't always assume you are the worse off eh?

To be honest though, the CDC estimates the rates between Therefore, it can be summarized that between 1 in 500 to 1 in 166 children (6/1,000) have an ASD.
Source. So while I admire your attempt to over-dramatize the statistics, I would agree that even the higher range is still too many.

While, it is clear that more children than ever before are being classified as having an Autism Spectrum Disorder, it is unclear how much of this increase is due to changes in how we identify and classify ASDs in people, or whether this is due to a true increase in prevalence. However, using our current standards, the ASDs are the second most common serious developmental disability after mental retardation/intellectual impairment, but are still less common than other conditions that affect children’s development, such as speech and language impairments, learning disabilities, and ADHD.
www.cdc.gov...

While it remains trendy to point the finger at "big pharma" and the like it remains to be proven that there is a link, or the rise is still part or better diagnosis and methodology and the like.


[edit on 2/1/06 by FredT]

[edit on 2/1/06 by FredT]

If you had read my link you would know environmental contamination is what I'm referring to, when I speak of the Mercury problem. As I said in my last post, the ethylmercury used in vaccines is probably not a major culprit in childhood autism. More likely, severe contamination of the entire environment, including the food, water, and air supply, with methylmercury.

Wyrde, I wasn't saying you were blaming vaccines for it, I was pointing out your guestimate regarding a 50% autism rate was ridiculous, regardless of the source of the mercury.

Ciao,
~MFP

Originally posted by conspiracy_101
I am strongly considering refusing the vaccines, but am concerned on the other hand of; what if they are necesary. I am looking for feedback from anyone on this topic and any advice/links you can provide.

My wife is an R.N. and we have refused all vaccination for our daughter, and she is off the growth charts healthy (hasn't been yet sick a day yet at six months) instead of regularly sick like all the vaccinated babies. You'd be suprised how many doctors and nurses do not get their children vaccinated, eat organic food, etc. Anyway, when the baby is first born make sure that you do not let them take him for his examination without making sure they know that he is not to be given the Hep. vaccine (best to insist on being present during it), or they are likely to do it automatically.

www.mercola.com...

Excellent to hear from another Nurse. Thank you Paul for contributing!

FredT -
Rather than try and have a war of words, and quotes, with you I will lay the pictures for everyone to see.

In 1991, Lily MSDS LINK




Here's some quotes from the meeting transcript in Simpsonwood,
This is the private meeting with CDC, FDA, and Vaccine officials in 2000, obtained through FOIA.
LINK





Edit - To remove my emotionally typed comments.
Edit - To remove 2 pictures, and add Links to the other 2.

[edit on 1-2-2006 by KDX175DUEX]

[edit on 1-2-2006 by KDX175DUEX]

Originally posted by KDX175DUEX
(and you can choke on your strawman)

*puts on best Homer Simpson Voice Mmmmmm Strawman*

Or better yet in the same voice "mmmmmmmm Ad Hominem attack"

Please site the URl and sources for the images of your "Facts" you posted etc please to comply with the T&C of the site.

Thanks


[edit on 2/1/06 by FredT]

Wyrde, I wasn't saying you were blaming vaccines for it, I was pointing out your guestimate regarding a 50% autism rate was ridiculous, regardless of the source of the mercury.

Did you read my links?

Here, I'll save you the freakin' time to end this nonsense.

www.generationrescue.org...

The incidence of autism has increased from 1 in 10,000 in the 1970s to 1 in 150 today, an increase of over 6,000%. Many more children have been diagnosed with other neurodevelopmental disorders all considered to be on the same spectrum including Asperger's, ADHD/ADD, speech delay, and many other developmental delays and learning disabilities.

www.nrdc.org...

WASHINGTON (March 15, 2005) -- The Environmental Protection Agency today issued a rule giving electric utilities a free pass from controlling their mercury pollution for more than a decade, according to NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council). The rule violates the Clean Air Act by failing to place stringent controls on a dangerous pollutant that especially threatens women and children. It also puts into place a pollution trading scheme that will allow power plants to emit far more mercury for much longer than the law permits.

"The EPA's rule is illegal, irresponsible, and breaks the promise the agency made five years ago to slash hazardous pollutants, including mercury, from coal-burning power plants," said John Walke, director of NRDC's Clean Air Program. "Most important, it blatantly disregards the threat mercury poses to our children. Failing to clean up mercury pollution sentences them to a life of lost opportunities."

I bet you love breathing in methylmercury vapors, I mean #, who doesn't?

50% of kids being born autistic within 5-10 years isn't unthinkable at all, given the current trend. The environment is SATURATED with nerve toxins, among other things.

www.anr.state.vt.us...

Mercury emitted to the atmosphere is considered a serious environmental threat to both animals and humans. Today, a variety of industrial and combustion processes contribute to mercury releases. The largest sources are from metal mining and smelting, municipal waste incineration, sewage and medical waste incineration, coal-fired power plants and cement manufacturing. Other sources of mercury arise from chloralkali plants (used to produce chlorine, primarily for bleaching in the pulp and paper industry), mineral ores processing, steel manufacturing, petroleum refining and fossil fuel combustion.

Hmmm..could there be a connection to the interests of the current American administration and its various rubber-stamp-wielding homonculi (the regulatory agencies)? What do you think is more important to them, record profits or record autism rates? Do I have to make a graph to make my point?

Alright its late, and I gotta get some sleep, but i have enough time to share these links.

Here is the Full MSDS from 1991 and Eli Lily. LINK

Here is the Full Transcript of the Simpsonwood Meeting (it's 11 MB)
www.safeminds.org...

I'm not going to track down the rest of the full sources, maybe tomorrow.

But here's a good place for all sorts of info. www.nomercury.org...

Originally posted by KDX175DUEX
I'm not going to track down the rest of the full sources, maybe tomorrow.

Then you need to remove the items you do not have a source for. Im not trying to be difficult, but they are a required element for posting here on ATS. Otherwise they may have to be removed untill sources can be forund for them.

Thats fine.
For now the first 2 pictures should be enough to digest.


I will take the other 2 pictures down, until I can find the links tomorrow.

But I assure you the information is out there.

Yet another religious issue...

vaccines

great, isn't it? NO talking about (unnecessary) side effects, NO talking about their effectiveness, everyone's either hush hush or up in arms like the flouride crowd. if you dissent, you're committing abuse, right?

Rule of thumb: anything that doesn't fit preconceived notions is ignored or suppressed, welcome back to the age of human sacrifices, folks. As usual, it's done to feel safe, oh the irony, we're alledgedly enlightened, aren't we?!

Here is a pretty comprehensive list of vaccines and their "ingredients".

www.informedchoice.info...

As of yet, I have no children. Rest assured, I will refuse vaccination of my child. There's nothing quite like knwing you're getting injected with aborted fetal tissue.

Hello All

I think this is splitting off into 2 topics:

1 vaccines per se

2 preservatives - specifically thiomersal

I don't think anyone can argue that *not* vaccinating doesn't lead to a spike in infectious diseases - I posted that link on Coburg, and also the BMJ link. I don't think that vaccination causes problems for the vast majority of the population, and here's another link:

www.quackwatch.org...

Is autism increasing because we are better at diagnosing autism? Not completely, but it may play a role.

www.autisticsociety.org...


As for thiomersal - the link I posted before showed it probably *wasn't* really dangerous, but again - *what's the point?*. You can use other preservatives in vaccines - they just cost more. If it means that people will take up effective vaccines at a higher rate I for one wouldn't complain if people stopped using it.


KDX-

I read the 'warning by manufacturer' about thiomersal - it's just the usual BS that drug companies write on their products. I use lidocaine 2% (the common dental injection, billions of capsules given safely around the world) every day on patients, and the manufacturers more or less say 'on no account inject any of this into your patient. We're not responsible if you do!'. It's 'legalese'.

That said, just speak to your GP about TM-free options if it worries you! Best wishes and good luck in your decision.

Regards

TD





[edit on 1-2-2006 by TaupeDragon]

Its easy to be different and trendy when its not your dime IMHO

No offense Fred...but I don't think parents that are concerned about vaccines are trying to be "trendy." They are trying to keep their children safe. This crap Tiramisu or whatever it's called is a PRESERVATIVE. That alone should make anyone question its safety and it's made with mercury, A KNOWN POISON....one of the most toxic elements on the planet.

And those autism rates are not myth. They are fact. 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 166. If those figures don't scare every parent, then there is something wrong with them!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

And those autism rates are not myth. They are fact. 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 166. If those figures don't scare every parent, then there is something wrong with them!

Hi. You're kind of knocking at an open door with me about thiomersal, but can you provide evidence about the 1 in 166 figure from some sort of validated epidemiological study?

Off to work now!

Cheers

TD

If there is concern over your child's health and immunisations then you will have to consult an Environmental & Nutritional Doctor. You can legally refuse to vaccinate your child without 'the child abuse label'...

You can also ask for vaccinations that don't contain thirmesol...

I suggest you see E & N Doc.. Autism can be cured It is a long road but it can be achieved.

My Son has had the mercury removed from his system..and as for the medical labels.. I recommended to another parent to see E & N Doc because her daughter was emancipated..on various heavy synthetic drugs. She did so and the hair test and blood panel showed copper poisoning... she is on treatment and is coming along in leaps and bounds..and completely off drugs...

National Nutritional & Environmental Medicine

by the way, the same year they took mercury out of household paint they started to use it in vaccinations.....

[edit on 1-2-2006 by NJE777]

Originally posted by NJE777
My Son has had the mercury removed from his system

I've been given the tests [L,C&M].. yet I have only recieved a clear on the lead. For some reason they haven't sent the results and my doctor keeps telling me to "Ring back next Monday".. three weeks running. Initially I had to ask her three times for the test before she caved in. After some months.. I got told to say "Request form" from someone in the know and straight away she caved in [magic legal term]. It was strange as it was like she wanted to but for some reason it was a really big drama even though I was getting blood tests for other things anyway. Did you have any trouble finding a doctor to test your son? Have you heared of any other Aussie doctors refusing tests?

Here's an RFK Jr. editorial about vaccine politics.

Link

Mercury is a known brain poison, and autism rates began rising dramatically in children who were administered the new vaccine regimens. A decade ago the American Academy of Pediatrics estimated the autism rate among American children to be 1 in 2,500. Today, the CDC places the rate at 1 in 166, or 1 in 80 boys. Additionally, one in six children is now diagnosed with a related neurological disorder.
In 2000, the CDC met with pharmaceutical companies and the FDA in secret to review its findings linking Thimerosal with the dramatic rise in neurological illnesses. According to transcripts, participants were alarmed about the undeniable links between the Thimerosal and widespread brain damage in children. Dr. Bill Weil told the group, ''You can play with [the results] all you want. They are statistically significant." Dr. Richard Johnston admitted he feared his grandchild getting a Thimerosal-containing vaccine. But the group was most concerned with keeping the findings secret. ''Consider this embargoed information," said Dr. Roger Bernier, a senior director at the National Immunization Program, at the meeting's close. The CDC now says it has ''lost" the data that supported the crucial study and has persistently defied congressional requests and federal law requiring it to open up the federal Vaccine Safety Database to scientists and the public.

Interesting to say the least.

I find it interesting that this "1 in 6 have a related neurological disorder" supposedly stated by the CDC isn't on their website...
www.cdc.gov...

Also, if 3-6 in 1,000 children having autism is too high a rate of side effects for you, perhaps you should consider the other 994 children who won't contract measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, etc. . There will always be adverse effects from any medication, and of course it is unfortunate when the victim is a child, but unfortunately, if I were a mother, I would rather have my child risk being one of the 3-6 in 1,000 than possibly picking up M, M, or R somewhere in the environment. Just because the other children have an active immunity to MMR, doesn't mean the bugs don't exist in nature around us.

Ciao,
~MFP