AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation

reply to post by Majic


Thank you for this reply. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I still don't disagree with the premsis of your argument.

Although debate is fine, it should be left to the OP to direct their thread. There should be no outside pressure to direct a conspiracy theory down a different road. If I loose control of the thread to someone who is simply interested in causing mischief, poking fun at others and has no serious point to add then I feel I have wasted my time.

This is a serious problem in ATP. There are those in the community who are serious about exposing the truth and there those who are only interested in getting quick laugh at the expense of others. With all the hardwork you put into enforcing the R&T, I find it hard to believe you can't do the same for weeding out these kinds of people.

This makes me think the rumors about you are true and there is some ulterier agenda about ATP. I also don't like my comments about JEWS being labaled as defacto racist per your T&C. That is a travesty to the conspiracy theory community, the world-wide struggle against Zionism and the Israeli occupation and a main tools used to suppress real debate on the issue in the established media outlets.

reply to post by samuelsson


When did it change?

The Not-So-Hidden Agenda

Originally posted by Unferth

This makes me think the rumors about you are true and there is some ulterier agenda about ATP. I also don't like my comments about JEWS being labaled as defacto racist per your T&C. That is a travesty to the conspiracy theory community, the world-wide struggle against Zionism and the Israeli occupation and a main tools used to suppress real debate on the issue in the established media outlets.

There is nothing in the terms & conditions prohibiting comments about Jews, and I invite you to search ATS for "Jews", "Zionists" and "Israel" if you honestly believe extremely different points of view on those subjects aren't posted in our forums every day.

There is this, however:

16) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, libelous, defamatory, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Granted, opinions regarding where, when and how to apply these restrictions vary from person to person -- including moderators.

We know that, and though we constantly look over each other's shoulders, we can nonetheless differ among ourselves about specific judgment calls, and always with the understanding that we each have our own personal biases.

In cases where you disagree with any action a moderator may take, there's usually an automatic PM involved, and you can reply to it and discuss the matter directly. If you think a mod (or anyone) has violated the T&C in a post, by all means alert it or submit a Complaint/Suggestion to have more staff members review it.

Though we do expect cooperation when we enforce the rules, you are always free to disagree (though we ask that members not publicly argue with us about staff actions in threads, since that derails them) and let us know when you think we've done something wrong. We're not perfect, make mistakes like anyone else, and when that happens we do try to make things right.

We also don't expect our fellow members to be perfect either, though we do tend to be rather strict about courtesy, because its absence renders threads unworthy of reading and is the mortal enemy of a healthy online community.

That doesn't always win us a lot of friends, but those of us who have seen what the alternatives are like do, at least, tend to be allies.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
AboveTopSecret.com is a professional "COINTELPRO" operation using secret black-operations funding to publish and promote disinformation as part of the U.S. Government's agenda to deflect and discredit conspiracy theorists.


At least, that seems to be the popular rumor that has circulated about us for some time, and has gained some recent traction.

We would be lying to ourselves if we were to believe some were not here as observers, and some as obstructors, and still others as .. .

Teachers/students

I'm convinced some are here trying to derail certain ventures into our quest for truth. I'm convinced if we want the truth bad enough, we can overcome the obsticles they through in our path.

And to add to this, anyone who gets on the internet and believes that anything they say or do cannot be monitored by the government is foolish and naive. And anyone reading or who has read the book " 1984 " would understand that the whole idea is the control of thought of the populace. Thought is a powerful tool and sometimes weapon. Crashing planes into buildings to control the thought of a nation to then make war on a nation is not beyond the realm of possibility. Using news services to decry the evils of Quaddafy as a pretext to invasion and overthrow would also not be too far fetched.

When you go onto the internet you should do so with the idea that there are "minders" coming along with you. If you remember, when a person went to Iraq under Saddam Hussein's rule, he was assigned a "minder" who went everywhere with them and watched everything they did, and who they talked to. Don't be foolish. Don't do or say anything on any website unless you realize that a super computer is flagging the keywords of your posts and doing a crisis analysis profile on it to assess any dangers.

Now, having said that, let us continue as if nothing ever happened. Remember, the internet is a government creation. That should be enough in itself.

Solid State Society

reply to post by Fromabove

If it isn't already assumed that The Government closely monitors virtually all Internet traffic, it should be -- and not just one government, either, though the U.S. is probably still the 500-pound gorilla as it is in so many other domains. Add to that the fact that what we discuss on ATS is publicly visible anyway, and the question becomes moot.

The more intriguing question is how The Government manages the flow of information and how it may control it. That's not so clear, but theories abound, as the topic of this thread aptly attests.

Probably the biggest problem in figuring out what is or isn't "disinformation" on ATS is that it's the same problem as trying to figure out what is or isn't disinformation everywhere else. The media is loaded with it, passes it along dutifully -- as does everyone to some extent -- and sorting fact from fiction is more of an "endurance race" than anything.

It's always been that way, but the Internet cranks up the volume to eleven, as it were, and despite the fact that we can google things to cross-check them, the information Google turns up is just as prone to manipulation as whatever we're checking.

Conclusion: Trust No One, Suspect Everyone.

They Want To Believe

As for "disinfo agents" here on ATS, I've often wondered about that. There have been stories of people being paid to sway opinions on discussion boards and even businesses that openly market such services, and members accusing each other of being disinfo agents is older than dirt, but I think the number of people who actually do that are smaller than may be assumed.

The irony of the issue is that the people who would be best at such jobs do them for free. They are enthusiasts, activists, evangelists and people who have something to prove. They work tirelessly to spread their messages and shout them from the rooftops. And with few exceptions, they do this because they believe one thing above all else.

They believe they are right.

Targeting Data

Looking at it all from a forum moderation standpoint, there's simply no reliable way to know who the "disinfo agents" are. Anyone can be honestly right, and anyone can be honestly wrong.

It is possible, however, to make the work of those whose mission is deception a little harder.

Pushing out bogus data is most efficiently accomplished by feeding it to the press. Consider that the vast majority of what we discuss on ATS (and in virtually ever forum on the Internet) is based on some form of media sources, and it's clear that's still very much where the power lies in the Information Age.

All a "government disinfo agent" has to do is "leak" something to the press, and they take it from there. Such "leaks" also end up as topics on discussion boards on their own, so no need to do the same job twice.

There may be occasions where something unwanted does get attention on a board like ATS. In those cases, our disinfo agent will want to shut it down. How to do that? Change the subject. Derail the thread. Insult and discourage people from posting. Trololol.

Thus it develops that some of the best weapons ATS has against "disinfo agents" are the terms & conditions that keep the board rolling. Not always smoothly, to be sure, but still open enough that members and guests can at least see what people have to say, and hopefully...

Deny Ignorance.

Lettuce prey.

reply to post by Majic


I agree with what you're saying. I would also like to add that I believe there are dis-info sympathizers who believe in the cause and although not encouraged to shut down a discussion by payment or other means, they do so to aid what they believe is the cause

We all believe in something, and on boards like this, we want to air out our views. Places like this can become fishing grounds for agents looking for quick scores on persons who may advocate some type of violence or revolution, or just plain anger at the powers that be.

In the end, while the owners and managers of this site do not intend for any other thing other than honest discussion of relevant and noteworthy topic, it would be foolish not to think that agents wouldn't want to get in and see if they can fish out persons with pretended threads on specific topics known to bring the zeal out of people. The law refers to the tactic of entrapment. So, people on the net should be aware that it is as much about a spy game as anything, being watched, analyzed and so on.

But all in all, ATS is still a good web site to visit for discussion and debate. We just need to be aware of the sharks in the water that's all.

I point everyone in the direction of what was deemed by those in the community called "Project Metal Gear" at the time of its inception. A contract was awarded to the Mantech company for a program that allows for one user to control numerous different fake social media profiles. This was done with the sole intention to; I quote " persuade public opinion" If you dont think one of the largest, most read, most participated in conspiracy websites is on "their" list... you should re-evaluate your stance on big brothers full capabilities.

reply to post by kenshiro2012


Can somebody confirm that the link provided doesn't work? Perhaps THEY'VE removed the thread about the call to arms for americans

reply to post by illestmagna


It's an old link. The board has changed site addresses, so the link probably goes to the old link, and not the new one.

reply to post by Majic


So I guess the courtesy policy is a little loose but the racism policy is really tight?

I say this because somebody said the following to me the other day and when I complained the MODs took my comments out as being "off topic" but left his intact. Here it is:

reply to post by Unferth

"To find out if you are the anti-christ there are certain steps that you must achive.
Firstly, you know how Mary mother of christ was carried on a donkey, well the donkey is thought to be a manifestation of God. You must have sex with a donkey as an insult to God as the first step to being the anti-christ. Once you have done this I will tell you the second step."

I guess antisemitism is worse than bestiality the eyes of the moderators? Does this violate the courtesy rule? Could you tell me what percentage of your mods have a Jewish background so I know there is no bias here? By that, I mean they have to have at least one Jewish parent.

For the record, I don't think my comments should be deemed racist by anyone except the ignorant. I was quoting from a well-respected channeler named Kryon (Lee Carroll) who is a giant in the new age channelling movement. He gives tours all over the world and is known to be a good friend of Israel. He gave readings there too. Furthermore, what he says about Jews as being a special people is not any different than what the Bible says or what Jews commonly say to themselves. They are the Chosen People; (pssst...that means chosen RACE). I was trying to define the esoteric meaning behind that phrase by quoting the only source who speaks about it, Kryon.

Clearly, I was not being racist or even pretended it is true rather I was denying ignorance. Now, the record speaks for itself. You, as matter of policy, ALWAYS side with the ignorant poster as a means to keep this thread as a place to confuse the conspiracy community.

Originally posted by KuhNate
I point everyone in the direction of what was deemed by those in the community called "Project Metal Gear" at the time of its inception. A contract was awarded to the Mantech company for a program that allows for one user to control numerous different fake social media profiles. This was done with the sole intention to; I quote " persuade public opinion" If you dont think one of the largest, most read, most participated in conspiracy websites is on "their" list... you should re-evaluate your stance on big brothers full capabilities.

Absolutely brilliant post....have wondered for so long how to say this--the most neutral way, if you will, for this is so much unknown while still knowing this, which is what makes it critical how it is explained, for the rest, as to who, what, where, when, becomes, then, almost unknowable.

Thank you for saying something that is critical to evaluating anything and everything, even as it raises only more unanswerable questions.

Metal Gear Sold

reply to post by KuhNate

I agree with tetra50 on this. "Metal Gear" is a great example to bring up and highlights an aspect of government efforts that I refer to on a more general basis as "Information Warfare". Here's an ATS thread on the subject from a couple of years back:

Army, CIA, corporations, propaganda & Internet sock puppets : facts, tactics & fight back

Googling "Metal Gear" can be rather tricky due to the name overlap with the famous video game franchise, but here are some articles related to it:

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

U.S. military says Metal Gear sock puppets are real

Combating jihadists and free speech: How the U.S. military is using fake online profiles to spread propaganda

Here's a search that can turn up more information without too much noise:

Google: Metal Gear HBGary Ntrepid

Definitely food for thought, but I'm not worried we're all surrounded by chat bots just yet.

Failing The Turing Test

On a practical level, large numbers of sock puppets are more useful on social networking sites such as Facebook (the most intrusive, voracious accumulator of personal information ever devised by humankind and fertile grounds for government surveillance, which is why I'm not a member) and Twitter. On such sites, profiles can be set up and post fairly similar or even identical things without drawing too much attention, and "mindshare" is measurable in generalized, numerical terms such as "likes" and "followers".

While the same techniques can be attempted in discussion forums, the interactive and context-sensitive nature of the format makes managing sock puppet armies a lot more complicated. We routinely terminate accounts for spamming, copypasta and the like, and though we are far from psychic, have a lot of experience dealing with sock puppetry as well.

But even if we didn't, our members are very good at sniffing out sock puppets and other tomfoolery because no matter how much someone may try to hide it, everyone has a unique posting style that becomes obvious when it's repeated across multiple accounts. "Metal Gear" and other technologies might involve attempts to vary posting style, but coding something like that is far more easily said than done.

As it stands, we often get alerts about sock puppets that turn out to be correct, and although there are no doubt some members who are capable of maintaining a few with some care, anyone trying to do so en masse would have a very hard time on ATS.

Perhaps more significant from a cultural standpoint, however, is that most ATSers are here because they don't follow the crowd and agree with what "most people" think or have to say.

That could be quite frustrating for someone trying to conduct "perception management" and could potentially lead even the most carefully-orchestrated attempts to sway member opinions here to backfire disastrously -- especially if the attempt to manipulate our opinions were to be exposed in the process.

After all, people who reject the idea of being "sheeple" don't tend to follow the herd.

Policy Negotiation

Originally posted by Unferth

So I guess the courtesy policy is a little loose but the racism policy is really tight?

I can understand your not seeing the humor, but when you create a thread titled "Am I the antichrist?", you can expect some unusual answers.

From an enforcement standpoint, I'm not seeing how that particular post actually violates the terms & conditions, and no one else on the staff apparently did either. It's not a personal attack and though it's a little vulgar, it's not hateful, profane or even all that shocking in context.

One of our rules of thumb is when in doubt, the members get the benefit of that doubt. Hence, no staff action.

If you could elaborate and explain which particular section it violates, we can have another look. However, if you should choose to do so, I ask we do that via private message or alert, because this isn't a thread for posting complaints about specific staff actions, and we normally remove posts of that nature from public threads for many good, non-sinister reasons (as do most discussion boards).

Frankly, this seems more and more like trying to trump up some petty gripes and find something to complain about than a penetrating exposé of ATS being some sort of government disinfo operation (which is our topic, after all).

Yes, we do have strict policies regarding racism and courtesy and we do enforce them, and our members still manage to express an incredibly diverse range of opinions on ATS every day, as even the most casual of glances through our forums can prove beyond any reasonable doubt.

You may find these policies excessively confining, may feel we're out to get you and may find ATS to be unsatisfactory because of that. If that's the case, I encourage you to avail yourself of the amazing freedom the Internet provides and find a more suitable venue. There are many, many fine alternatives out there if ATS isn't your cup of tea.

But if you're willing to honor our house rules and cooperate with us when we enforce them, you're always welcome here -- even if you can't stand the place.

reply to post by Majic


Thanks for reasuring me that your site is in fact biased. I understand you need to take my examples out of the equation by pretending they are off-topic. That is standard colintelpro deception, media lies bias trick. Ignore the obvious and pretend they will go away.

Thank you also for asking me to leave the site. I had to take a few moments to evaluate the situation here. I'm glad I know now that I won't be the first real conspiracy theorist to leave ATS. Look at this:

-Erick Dubay, from www.atlanteanconspiracy.com...

If your moderators have nothing to hide, why don't you answer my questions? I'll reiterate them below:

1) What percentage of your MODS are Jewish (one Jewish parent)?

2) What percentage belong to a freemasonic or similar organization?

3) Has the US Fed government ever subpoened or directly written to ATS. What is your history with them?

May You See Our Papers?

Originally posted by Unferth

IF your moderators have nothing to hide. Why don't you answer my question above. I'll reiterate them below:

1) What percentage of your MODS are Jewish (one Jewish parent)

2) What percentage belong to a freemasonic or similar organization?

3) Has the US Fed government ever subpoened or directly written to ATS. What is your history with them?

At least we've moved past the "donkey question". That's progress.

As for your questions about our staff, it's important to remember that they are ATS members first (we're all volunteers), are just as entitled to their privacy as any other member, and it's not for me to speak on their behalf or discuss their personal details. Also, I don't know any percentages because I haven't been keeping count of those sorts of things, and have no reason to (we don't ask) so take it for what it's worth.

We have some staff members who are Jewish and who are quite open about it, but definitely a minority. We have some staff members who are Freemasons and who are quite open about it, and they are also definitely a minority. As for staff members who may be Jews and/or Freemasons and aren't open about it, I don't know, because I don't know of anyone who is concealing that sort of thing.

In considering staff demographics, it's worth bearing in mind that we have over seventy staff members on five continents, that we are a sampling of the community as a whole, that each of us has our own personal opinions on just about everything, and that we aren't shy about sharing them in the forums (most of us have astronomically high post counts and have been here for many years). Thus the insinuation that ATS is staffed by Jews, or Freemasons, or Jewish Freemasons, is somewhat questionable on its face.

Or to apply the reductio ad absurdum to an increasingly absurd line of questioning, what percentages would be problematic? 50% Jews/50% Freemasons? 75% Jews/25% Freemasons? 100% Jewish Freemasons? If there wasn't a single Jew or Freemason on the staff, would that be be reassuring or disturbing in itself?

In other words, assuming the "worst case" of your demographic concerns (whatever that would be), what meaning would it actually have?

They're From The Government

As for government contacts, I recall Simon mentioned in a public thread receiving a request many, many years ago (before I was a member) from some DoD-related agency (I think) asking ATS to remove some classified plans that had been posted, but I don't remember the details. As far as I know, that's the only time that happened.

There was an incident called "Juniper Three" or "Black Juniper", also many years ago, apparently involving someone with the Defense Intelligence Agency who may have been trying to perpetrate a hoax in our forums or perhaps do some sort of classified information security test, though I don't know if it was ever established that this person was acting in an official capacity or what the deal was. That all happened shortly before I joined ATS, I think.

There may be some other cases I don't know about, but speaking as someone who is in a reasonably good position to know, we just don't hear from the government very often. Well, actually, aside from those examples, not at all as far as I know.

Or to put it another way, if the government is somehow running ATS, they are doing a fantastic job of keeping it a secret from those of us who run ATS.

The Devil You Don't Know

Ironically, that brings us back to the $64,000 question: what would it matter?

That is to say, if we assume ATS is run entirely by 100% Jewish Freemasons who work for the government, what would we do differently? How would that affect what we as members say or think?

Do you believe what I say because I'm an ATS admin? I get the distinct impression you don't (perceptive, aren't I?), that no matter what I say you won't believe me, and that in a very fundamental sense, anything I say to try to reassure you will ultimately be wasted effort.

And that's the kicker: you don't need to believe me about any of this.

Assume the worst. Assume that I and every member of the staff are precisely the people you suspect we are. Then ask yourself what you would do differently from what you're already doing.

Would you leave? For the record, I didn't ask you to leave, just pointed out that you are free to leave anytime if you don't like ATS and there are plenty of other choices available for your posting pleasure. If we're as evil as you seem to think we are, staying as far away from here as possible would be a logical choice -- perhaps the only logical choice.

Would you stay? If so, why? To expose us? Expose what?

What's your point?

For your accounting purposes, my personal account:

Originally posted by Unferth
1)Jewish (one Jewish parent)?

No Jewish family members... lots of pagans though.

freemasonic or similar organization?

Got asked, turned them down> I already had a good job.

US Fed government ever subpoened or directly written to ATS. What is your history with them?

Nope. Drove down and visited the US a couple of times. Got a speeding ticket in the UP, but that's it.



Of course, you don't have to (and likely will not) believe me.

reply to post by Majic


I find it extremely problamatic that you allow freemasonic members as admins. If they are minority and open about, there must be more. Seems to me ATS is bit out of touch with the conspiracy theory community. They are at the root of most conspiracy theories and you should at least disclose who you hire to moderate peoples SPEECH.

That includes mine and others.

See www.atlanteanconspiracy.com...

My experience on another popular form with lots of Jewish admins was mostly negative. They were blatantly racist, biased but pretended otherwise. The fact that were so many of them (and mostly volunteers) also made it difficult to control them because they really didn't care if they were fired or not.

reply to post by Unferth

I'm not an admin but I have a parent who is half-jewish. Does that count as being on the anti-Christ's enemies list? What......seems I have to go, my shift is over and there's a meeting over at the Masonic Temple (I'm on the "Magick, mystics, and refreshments" committee). I'll turn this account's operation over to Becky, who just clocked in.