US Air Strike Kills Iraqi Family of 12

The binary logic in here is absurd.

Enough of the nonsense "with us or against us" BS.

When the insurgents bomb a crowd of civilians, it's wrong.
When the US bombs a civilian residence, it's also wrong.

"Intent" doesn't mean a damn thing. Dead kids are still dead kids, whether they were the "intended" targets or not.

It's also not a sound policy. It's methods like this that will lead to our defeat. For the two or three insurgents we may have killed, we probably just recruited another two or three dozen... this method is not going to lead to anything resembling "victory".

Originally posted by xmotex
The binary logic in here is absurd.

Enough of the nonsense "with us or against us" BS.

When the insurgents bomb a crowd of civilians, it's wrong.
When the US bombs a civilian residence, it's also wrong.

What are you to do when the enemy dresses like a civilian, acts like a civilian and surrounds themselves with civilians? I mean, do you realize that the insurgents do that because they know people like you will take the bait? You ultimately end up aiding the guys who mass murder and decapitate living humans.

None of us deny that any loss of human life is tragic and sad. Every time I hear about 20+ Iraqis killed in bombings my stomach churns and my blood boils. The same goes for when we kill innocent people. The thought that some innocent people are now gone and there is a US pilot who has to live with that make me very depressed. That soldier will probably have nightmares and life long problems because of it. That is the big difference between the US and the murderers we are fighting against.



[edit on 4-1-2006 by Dronetek]

Originally posted by xmotex
The binary logic in here is absurd.

Well, we're human, not computers so binary logic is impossible.

Enough of the nonsense "with us or against us" BS.

Who said that?

When the insurgents bomb a crowd of civilians, it's wrong.
When the US bombs a civilian residence, it's also wrong.

Agreed.

"Intent" doesn't mean a damn thing. Dead kids are still dead kids, whether they were the "intended" targets or not.

I agree dead kids are dead kids, but I think intent does mean something, because if you intend to kill kids, you will kill more than if you do everything in your power not to and make a terrible mistake. Intent = greater number of dead kids.

It's also not a sound policy. It's methods like this that will lead to our defeat. For the two or three insurgents we may have killed, we probably just recruited another two or three dozen... this method is not going to lead to anything resembling "victory".

I don't think any of us have any idea what "victory" is in this war, so it's kinda hard to debate that.

Very well said xmotex. I agree completely.

It just goes back to the question i've always had... "whats the plan now?". It just seems that Bush and Co. don't have one.


Derek

Even terrorists and insurgents have families. Maybe next time they should go somewhere else after planting an IED on a road instead of having to come back to their home or homes. But then they do need to eat. Or next time terrorists and insurgents need to look out more for recon drones that are watching them.

War is HELL!! Crap Happens ! They blow us up and we bomb them.
The noncombatants get it from both sides just cuz they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is it wright........... hell no!! But We (USA) have made it a little better for the friendlies near the ground zero. The collateral damage now days is nothing compared to what it was. But I am like most and get upset over the lost of one innocent life.
War should be held by The Persons' that wants it...... Not by there people.
I would pay is see Bush get into the ring with some of these guys!

Originally posted by Souljah

A Dossier of Civilian Casualties in Iraq - 2003–2005

Don't you just love it when people post links claiming 100,000 deaths only to post another minutes later that states a max of 31263?

Source



Civilians reported killed by the military intervention in Iraq
Min Max
27736 31263

Originally posted by Souljah

So far 100.000 Innocent Civilans were killed in Liberation of Iraq.

I just love it when they shoot their own selves in the foot




[edit on 1/4/2006 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Don't you just love it when people post links claiming 100,000 deaths only to post another minutes later that states a max of 31263?

Nobody Knows How many People Died in Iraq - those are two Bodycounts, and since the US Army does not DO that, I am sure that the Correct Number will never ever be known to us anyway.

Lets say, somewhere between 31263 and 100000, mmmmkey?

somethings wrong with those numbers from `iraqbodyvcount`


wheres the wp attack on fullajah in that? they say the total for fullajah is 600


erm , i don`t think so somehow - not with all the testimoney of `thousands of burnt bodies litering the streets`

Originally posted by Harlequin
somethings wrong with those numbers from `iraqbodyvcount`


wheres the wp attack on fullajah in that? they say the total for fullajah is 600


erm , i don`t think so somehow - not with all the testimoney of `thousands of burnt bodies litering the streets`

WP attack? I'm pretty sure that has been debunked a million times over. I think you have already proven that you dont really know whats going on outside the daily kos. I mean, you were claiming that sunnis are a majority in another post.

rofl

and now your saying that the US didn`t use WP in the attack on fullajah - when the administration has allready stated they did.


please read up about it sometime.

[edit on 5/1/06 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Souljah
Lets say, somewhere between 31263 and 100000, mmmmkey?

Well at least you are being honest for a change by admitting it may not be that high. For over a year you have been throwing around the 100000 figure as it is fact.

Now you complain when 12 civilians are killed by accident, so lets take a look at what your buddies did in the past day or so on purpose.



As you can clearly see your friends/buddies are killing a lot more then the US is

Imagine that over 7 times as many, now that is a lot of people to kill especially when you consider they were going to a religious activity, just doing their job, or going to a funeral or trying to make enough money to support their family by selling toys

Edit to update the figures

Suicide Attacks Kill About 100 in Iraq

Wow from 7 times as many to 9 times as many in just a matter of minutes no less






[edit on 1/5/2006 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
Suicide bombers targeted Shiite pilgrims in the south and police recruits in central Iraq Thursday, killing almost 80 people in a stepped-up line of attacks.

The Target were Police Recruits, which Classify as Enemy Armed Forces to the Insurgency in Iraq.

So Basicly they were Aiming at a Valid Military Target.

That's like US Warplanes would Drop a Bomb on a Line of Fresh Terrorist Recruits waiting to receive their Weapons.

Effect is the Same - the MEANS are Different.

so Souljah,
what you are now stating is that a civilian police force now constitutes a valid military target?
I guess that is the same as high scools that teach girls.
Wedding parties
Funerals for those that they murdered
Hotels

what next? will your heros now start to consider hospitals as valid military targets? I mean think about it.... the hospitals are responsible for patching up the wounded from your hero's attacks. If your heros take out the hospitals, then the doctors will not be able to save the wounded thus there will be less "valid military targets"

what about the shiite pilgrims? valid military target?

who aren't the insurgents fighting?

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
what next? will your heros now start to consider hospitals as valid military targets? I mean think about it.... the hospitals are responsible for patching up the wounded from your hero's attacks. If your heros take out the hospitals, then the doctors will not be able to save the wounded thus there will be less "valid military targets"

Stop putting Words in my Mouth by writing that they are HEROES for ME. I never said, you did. Please keep that in mind, the next time you use those two wrods, will you?

Thanks!

I wonder how many Hospitals were Demolished in Fallujah by US Forces.

Or recently in the Operation Steel Curtain.

How come that the US CAN Label Hospitals are a Valid Target?

And how come that the US CAN Label a House as a Valid Target?

I wonder how many of those US Warplanes Destroyed in a case of Bad Intel or an Accident.

When you Admit that when US Airplanes Bomb a Wedding, that that's TERRORISM, then we can talk.

Until then you will keep on living in a Perfectly Black and White world, where the All Good US forces can not do anything wrond, and the all Evil Terrorists are ALWAYS Responsible for Deaths of Innocent Civilans.

Nuff Said.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by shots
Suicide bombers targeted Shiite pilgrims in the south and police recruits in central Iraq Thursday, killing almost 80 people in a stepped-up line of attacks.

The Target were Police Recruits, which Classify as Enemy Armed Forces to the Insurgency in Iraq.

I can see you have very selective reading so let me help you out here.

The majority were civilians and the toll is now over or near 100. How you can classify civilian police officers as a valid target is just downright ludicrous.

Originally posted by Souljah


How come that the US CAN Label Hospitals are a Valid Target?

And how come that the US CAN Label a House as a Valid Target?

RPG, Sniper and AKM fire coming from these locations could just maybe, have something to do with that...

[edit on 5-1-2006 by C0le]

Originally posted by shots
I can see you have very selective reading so let me help you out here.

The majority were civilians and the toll is now over or near 100. How you can classify civilian police officers as a valid target is just downright ludicrous.

The Bomb went off infront of POLICE RECRUITMENT CENTER in Iraqi town of Ramadi. The Explosion killed the Majority of Future Police Candidates, aged 20 to 35 Years, which have came to ENLIST in the Police Force.

USA has attacked hospitals in most of there assaults on large cities, so dont start blaming the insurgents/resistance for that. Whoever is controlling the tactics used in Iraq has no problem blowing up hospitals and power/water stations that supply thousands of people things they need...

Dont you think if people are attacking from inside a hospital the decent thing would be to use moderate force? The US's answer seems to be to blow the hell out of it and to hell with the patients inside. Just because you call it collateral damage it doesnt make it murder any less, it just helps you sleep at night.