This is not a thread to appease non-believers

Nullster Said:
Sorry, but resurecting an old thread for for personal Spamming purposes is self serving. Maybe we should all make malicious and pretencious posts to draw ire from other members so we can make allot of points.

Mods please intervene.

What a lousy attitude. Why do you care what gets posted? Who are you to call upon the mods of ATS when nothing is being done wrong here? They are always watching and they don't need you to call them down like some kind of theatre usher or something.

You are wrong about people bumping their own threads. It's not bad form, if the original thread was well composed and salient. Threads go on for years with large non-active gaps in between them, in case you missed that fact.

If ATS member Sleeper wants to contend that he was taken on an alien spacecraft and that aliens are our buddies (secretly of course), then what is it to you? I don't agree with the title of his post, but he is in a way, asking a question with his post. Where does the line between disbelief and belief lie? Sleeper says that people like me (whom aliens, EBEs, UFOs, etc all avoid entirely) are perhaps, secretly clued in to the alien agenda but then our memory gets erased. I don't know if I believe this, but it's a somewhat cool idea. I am very positively polarized toward belief, and the statisitical analysis says it's likely.

Still, as an ATS member, I'm not bothered by Sleeper's posts, really. In fact I find them (the ones about aliens) very interesting. Sleeper offers no proof, but he doesn't care if he's believed.

I agree with the suggestion offered. Find another thread if this one doesn't suit you.

So much for "Deny Ignorance"...

Originally posted by smallpeeps
What a lousy attitude. Why do you care what gets posted? ... Snipped rant

If you want to take my posting out of context go ahead.
I am man enough to acknowledge my mistake and apologized to Sleeper or did you just knee jerk- jump to conclusions and not care to read my follow up post.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by nullster]

Sleeper,

Unfortunately, words are all we have to use on this board to communicate, (no body language, etc.) so please try to be carefull how you phrase things. Statements like " This is not a forum to appease non-believers" and " This is not a board for proof" will get blasted and discussion will degrade to an argument over semantics. While I gave you the "benefit of the doubt" assuming you meant to say "thread", others will not. A board/forum is quite different from an individual thread, where as the origionator you do have some say on the discussion taking place if you state it clearly. A tactic I've used successfully to steer discussion before on one of my old threads here:

Originally posted by redmage
Sorry debunkers this thread is not for you. These things are supernatural by nature, which means literally: not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws. Therefore arguing existance or proof is a mute point. This is a matter of personal experience and/or belief.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I must say, I find your posts interesting. Admittedly, it's hard to believe entirely when the "facts" of your experiences are mixed with things so subjective as the notion that these beings are "perfect". Advanced? Sure. Superior? Possibly. Perfect? By what standard?

As to them "not needing entertainment"........they have us It reminds me of the South Park episode spoofing "reality TV", where Earth is/was the best rated intergalactic reality TV show but was to be destroyed due to a ratings slip.

As to the "rock picture", where was this posted?

While I would love to see undebunkable evidence as much as the next person, I also know that there is no such thing unless a person experiences it him/herself because so many will refuse to believe anything they can't personally touch, and will always find a reason (no matter how rediculous) to not believe it and write it off. The president could offer full disclosure in his state of the union address and some people still wouldn't believe it due to his prior "lies"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you use the phrases "ET" and "them" often yet I seem to recall you in another thread acknowledging many different "species" here on earth. Are they all "perfect" in your eyes or just one specific "race/species"? Which "race/species" do you have experience/s with?

I do admire the "cool head" you've maintained through all the attacks.

If nothing else, you do present interesting ideas/philosophies on alien interventions through our history.


[edit on 1/25/06 by redmage]

Originally posted by redmage


I must say, I find your posts interesting. Admittedly, it's hard to believe entirely when the "facts" of your experiences are mixed with things so subjective as the notion that these beings are "perfect". Advanced? Sure. Superior? Possibly. Perfect? By what standard?

By human standards ET is perfect

As to them "not needing entertainment"........they have us

It reminds me of the South Park episode spoofing "reality TV", where Earth is/was the best rated intergalactic reality TV show but was to be destroyed due to a ratings slip.

Good one, what I meant was the things humans are entertained by now-----in pre-historic times dancing around a fire and eating moths was fun for earlier man----not much fun today-----ET is in a whole other level when it comes to entertainment-----and they don’t seem to need it as much----if at all. Then again there are many ETs----maybe I’ve been hanging with the wrong crowd.

As to the "rock picture", where was this posted?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you use the phrases "ET" and "them" often yet I seem to recall you in another thread acknowledging many different "species" here on earth. Are they all "perfect" in your eyes or just one specific "race/species"? Which "race/species" do you have experience/s with?

There are many but to put a number on them is impossible----like trying to guess how many foreign visitors from different countries are in New York City on any given day

Compared to humans they are all perfect

I do admire the "cool head" you've maintained through all the attacks.

If nothing else, you do present interesting ideas/philosophies on alien interventions through our history.

Thank you

Originally posted by sleeper
Non-believers of extraterrestrial intelligent life are a dime-a-dozen

Your point being..?

This forum is for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share about extraterrestrials.

So your point for starting this particular thread is to air your frustration over sceptics - even implying to decide for which members this forum exists?

Tell us sleeper, what is your interpretation of the motto of said forum?

IMHO, the context in which this thread is posted is quite ironic, if anything. And to add my own view in this case; the idea of blindly accepting fantastic claims - discounting a healthy amount of careful scrutiny - is what paves the way for dime-a-dozen hoaxers trolling the UFO-community and forums such as this one. Ending up diluting whatever truth there is with a seemingly endless amount of bs.

[edit on 25-1-2006 by Durden]

Spot on Durden

Ignorant belief is as bad as ignorant disbelief, hence "Deny Ignorance" rather than "Deny Disbelief".

The whole field has suffered from cranks with fanciful tales and nothing to back their claims, another crank adds nothing, especially when that crank resorts to ignorant lines such as "Well, I don't care if you believe me I know" - It offers nothing of value to this forum that you can't get from the Sci-Fi shelf at your local bookshop.

Expecting blind belief oh the basis of fanciul stories and nothing else only serves to fuel the "cultish behaviour" tag placed on such cranks.

AD.

[edit on 25-1-2006 by anglodragon]

Originally posted by anglodragon
Spot on Durden

Ignorant belief is as bad as ignorant disbelief, hence "Deny Ignorance" rather than "Deny Disbelief".

The whole field has suffered from cranks with fanciful tales and nothing to back their claims, another crank adds nothing, especially when that crank resorts to ignorant lines such as "Well, I don't care if you believe me I know" - It offers nothing of value to this forum that you can't get from the Sci-Fi shelf at your local bookshop.

Expecting blind belief oh the basis of fanciul stories and nothing else only serves to fuel the "cultish behaviour" tag placed on such cranks.

AD.

[edit on 25-1-2006 by anglodragon]

Some of us don’t have to believe----we know-----if you can’t accept that fact-----to bad

The whole field suffers from skeptic cranks that can’t seem to get over the fact that there are realities in the universe that they are simply incapable of understanding

First graders don’t comprehend what they are teaching in universities

All I can tell you is stay in school and perhaps some day you will understand bigger concepts.

And I don’t care that billions of people don’t get it----apparently it’s not for them to get

That's a bit of a stretch Durden :shk:

Where do you get this:

Originally posted by Durden
So your point for starting this particular thread is to air your frustration over sceptics

From this:

This forum is for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share about extraterrestrials.

He made it quite clear that this was a spot, "for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share".

There are many threads asking "is this real" begging for debunking.

Sleeper started one for people who believe they've had experiences and would like to share or for "believers" (for lack of a better word) to ask questions.

There's plenty of room for both without people hijacking this thread with semantics arguments (forum/board vs. thread) and rediculous assuptions.


[edit on 1/25/06 by redmage]

Originally posted by Durden

Tell us sleeper, what is your interpretation of the motto of said forum?

IMHO, the context in which this thread is posted is quite ironic, if anything. And to add my own view in this case; the idea of blindly accepting fantastic claims - discounting a healthy amount of careful scrutiny - is what paves the way for dime-a-dozen hoaxers trolling the UFO-community and forums such as this one. Ending up diluting whatever truth there is with a seemingly endless amount of bs.

When I started this thread about a month ago the skeptics freaked and pouted and threatened to hold their breath until they turned blue-----so I let it sink to the bottom of the board----I didn’t want anyone turning blue on my watch

I did not rejuvenate this thread and I will let it go back down because the tantrums are starting back up again.

I know this stuff is difficult for many to digest----and if my reality interferes with your illusions of this world and gives you heartburn-----sorry

Originally posted by sleeper

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you use the phrases "ET" and "them" often yet I seem to recall you in another thread acknowledging many different "species" here on earth. Are they all "perfect" in your eyes or just one specific "race/species"? Which "race/species" do you have experience/s with?

There are many but to put a number on them is impossible----like trying to guess how many foreign visitors from different countries are in New York City on any given day

Compared to humans they are all perfect

Maybe there was a misunderstanding, the question wasn't "how many species are there?". It was "Which "race/species" do you have experience/s with?" Did you really mean that you've actually had first hand experiences with more species that you could count?

You also have mentioned "renegade" species. this is why I have a problem with the "perfect" label. It's too wrapped with subjective opinion, as "perfect" (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder. The same way sheer numbers and odds tell me that we are not alone in the universe, they also tell me that not all species could be good or "perfect".

Thanks for the response, U2U me if you'd prefer to let this thread go and I'll stop posting here to help the cause (since many can't seem to keep on topic).


[edit on 1/25/06 by redmage]

Wow, geeeze, you guys are really going at it. I joined ATS cause it seemed that everyone had something to contribute, not bash each other

I personally feel that it is arrogant to think that we are the only sentient species in the galaxy let alone the universe. How and when somebody is contacted shouldn't be viewed like the church where only they can receive communication from god.

Originally posted by redmage

Maybe there was a misunderstanding, the question wasn't "how many species are there?". It was "Which "race/species" do you have experience/s with?" Did you really mean that you've actually had first hand experiences with more species that you could count?

I don’t know how many I’ve encountered throughout my fifty plus years on this planet but there were many

The species I recollect the most are the same as us-----human----however, they have many kinds of soulless machines that take on strange and varied appearances----also the ETs have costumes----or suits----meaning their bodies are way different while they are in their ships-----they don’t consume food and drink like we do----they don’t have bodily functions like we do----they travel great distances in a very short time----perhaps they travel through dimensions----human bodies can’t make those trips-----we have to switch machines to do so----in other words put on one of their suits----hybrid bodies-----something between a soul and what we call flesh.

You also have mentioned "renegade" species. this is why I have a problem with the "perfect" label. It's too wrapped with subjective opinion, as "perfect" (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder. The same way sheer numbers and odds tell me that we are not alone in the universe, they also tell me that not all species could be good or "perfect".

During my twenties and thirties I was taken----abducted often, and not treated well----these ETs were evil----but then again I said the same about my drill sergeants in basic training----so what is evil?-----My drill instructors didn’t hate me they had a job to do----they in fact were looking out for me

Thanks for the response, U2U me if you'd prefer to let this thread go and I'll stop posting here to help the cause (since many can't seem to keep on topic).

I will keep responding to posters on this thread

And thanks for the backup

Originally posted by redmage
That's a bit of a stretch Durden

Is it really..?

Well, why don't you have a look at the actual topic of the thread as well as the content of its initial post, starting something like this:

Originally posted by sleeper
This is not a forum to appease non-believers

Non-believers of extraterrestrial intelligent life are a dime-a-dozen..

...and finally...

This forum is for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share about extraterrestrials.

Nothing special about being part of the “dime-a-dozen” crowd of non-believers

Yeah, that's pretty clear, I'd say.. Though sleeper might want to check with the administration of this forum as to for who it is for...

Also, I did add my view on the idea of not questioning that which is presented as fact. I also did pose a couple of questions. The thread author did however choose not to attend to this.

And now you come running claiming that I'm hijacking the thread..? Yeah, mmmk.


[edit on 26-1-2006 by Durden]

alrite , i got a few things to add

first of all the reason UFO sightings is down since the Net came out is plainly obvious; cuz all our lazy a$$'s are sitting here on the computer all nite instead of being outside skygazing , and its very very true

i see people on here just blabbing all this disbelief, yet they do not go outside and spend 50 to 100hours watching the sky constantly
Do they?

and if you already tried and it didnt work? quit complaining and try some more!

im amazed how lazy most people are; and its near hypocracy

you claim "oh i have no evidence" yet you did little in attempt to obtain it

i dont really believe in 95% of all the bunk thats posted on here; because its bunk *example the Lion people stuff* im like 99.999999% sure that theory is total fantasy

but u know; the ONLY reason i actually believe in Aliens and Flying Saucers and all that ???
Because i actually saw one
Because i was willing to sit outside and look at the stars night after night; for hours on end

yes my neck hurt; looking straight up and scanning east to west, north to south CONSTANTLY for hours on end HURTS the neck lol
I suggest laying down or using a lawn-chair to lay back
it helps keep your neck and back from hurting so much

but seriously if your not willing to go outside and spend literally hundreds of hours Looking for a UFO, you really dont have a legitimate right to talk so harshly agianst someone who actually did invest that time and actually saw some weird stuff

ive seen so many bizzare events; that i know as a fact that your Bound to see one pretty soon; i would say within the first 100hours your almost garunteed a hit

if it takes longer oh well; you gotta work hard so what? the rewards of this are amazing; your entire mental view of the entire universe changes
you freak out; well i freaked out; that was my reaction

its very exiting when you actually see it , and it really brings insight
to Know as a Fact; after seeing these things yourself; that we are not alone in this vast universe; is quite humbling

i dont expect you to believe ANYTHING on this website
but i DO expect you to go look for a UFO on your own time; and find your own personal eyewitness Proof, and i promise if you actually try this and DONT give up you WILL see one; they are quite common occurance

just dont give up; and stop playing on the internet all friggin nite long; and actually go look at the Sky its freakin amazing in its own right!

One last thing; if you think your going to find proof on the internet you have lost your mind; thats like 99.999999% impossible

for two distinct reasons
1) The military will be all over you like white on rice if you actually somehow got Real indisputable proof *like a alien body or technology*

2) All things on the internet are just pages of information; no matter how well written anything is; it can be disputed and rightfully so, beacause you cannot Prove anything thru the Internet; except the Existance of Internet and ISP's lol

so a word of advice; if you think you may one day hopefully see proof of UFO/aliens on the internet; give up now while you can , because it will NEVER happen, for the reasons i stated above

the ONLY way you will know for sure beyond a shadow of a doubt; that UFOs are Real; is to go outside and Watch for yourself
and when you see it; there you go proof with your own eyes

BTW , Tip ::: take a friend with you or video camera; to make ABSOLUTE sure you are NOT hallucinating

if a friend says "i saw it too" you know it was real
if it is on your video tape? you know it really happened

if you dont have the luxery of having a friend or camera with you; dont worry, it doesnt matter anyways
this is for you to actually see one with your own eyes , so you can end your ignorance of life elsewhere

now i have reasons for suggesting the UFOs i saw were of ET nature; and that would be because us military jets have chased a few of them and they shot off directly upwards into outer space at amazing speeds *it leaves tracers of light so u can see where it went*
also why would the military fly a saucer shaped metallic UFO over a city of 100,000 people at 10pm at night? what do they love sharing their top secret info with everyone? why would they tip me off like that?
thats why i think its ET, im not sure of course; but im pretty dang sure

anyways GET OFF THE INTERNET
DO NOT WATCH TV !!!!

Go Outside and Watch the Sky
Stop Being Ignorant of the Truth
Go see the Evidence for yourself
Be patient , take your medicine if you have ADD/ADHD
sit down relax, turn on some music

scan the sky; you WILL see one eventually
and it will change your perception of the universe , Forever

Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by redmage
That's a bit of a stretch Durden

Is it really..?

Yes.

Originally posted by Durden
Well, why don't you have a look at the actual topic of the thread as well as the content of its initial post, starting something like this:

Originally posted by sleeper
This is not a forum to appease non-believers

I have.

Registered: 6/2/04 huh? You've been around long enough to know that a thread's title and topic don't always match up like they "should". The actual topic was:

Originally posted by sleeper
This forum is for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share about extraterrestrials.

Obviously sleeper is not an admin., owner, or mod so he has no control over what "This forum is for"(when we use accepted "online" definition/association) but a single thread could be considered a "forum", or discussion area, as well (if we go by the defination of, "a place for discussion") so we again get into the semantic argument of forum/board vs. thread. Way off topic, and your major harping point.

Originally posted by Durden
Though sleeper might want to check with the administration of this forum as to for who it is for...

Again, more off topic harping over semantics

Originally posted by Durden
Also, I did add my view on the idea of not questioning that which is presented as fact.

Originally posted by Durden
IMHO, the context in which this thread is posted is quite ironic, if anything. And to add my own view in this case; the idea of blindly accepting fantastic claims - discounting a healthy amount of careful scrutiny - is what paves the way for dime-a-dozen hoaxers trolling the UFO-community and forums such as this one. Ending up diluting whatever truth there is with a seemingly endless amount of bs.

Yes you did, and it had nothing to do with "being curious about ETs" or "sharing a personal experience with them". If you have a gripe there's a special button for that at the top of the screen. The mods know, and do, their job well. If they see nothing of value in this thread then they know where the trash bin is, and how to use it.

No one is asking you to "blindly accept fantastic claims", if you have on topic questions.....ask them. If you choose to believe or accept the answers given.....that's up to you.

Originally posted by Durden
I also did pose a couple of questions. The thread author did however choose not to attend to this.

Hmmmm, your questions:

Originally posted by Durden
So your point for starting this particular thread is to air your frustration over sceptics - even implying to decide for which members this forum exists?

I think the rolly eyes pretty much chalk that up as rhetorical, also it's just furthering the "forum vs thread", off topic, semantic argument.

Originally posted by Durden
Tell us sleeper, what is your interpretation of the motto of said forum?

Again off topic, and further semantics aguments on the use of the word forum.

Then there was:

Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by sleeper
Non-believers of extraterrestrial intelligent life are a dime-a-dozen

Your point being..?

His point was "Non-believers of extraterrestrial intelligent life are a dime-a-dozen", pretty self explanatory.

And that's it, 3 questions, none of which were on topic or meant to be answered(rhetorical).

Originally posted by Durden
And now you come running claiming that I'm hijacking the thread..?

Yup, all I see are rhetorical complaints and off topic semantic arguments.....A.K.A., hijacking.



sleeper,

Thanks for the reply, I'll get back to that tomorrow. Also, you might want to U2U a mod to change "forum" to "thread" in the title, it could help clear up some of the confusion.


[edit on 1/26/06 by redmage]

Originally posted by redmage
Obviously sleeper is not an admin., owner, or mod so he has no control over what "This forum is for"(when we use accepted "online" definition/association) but a single thread could be considered a "forum", or discussion area, as well (if we go by the defination of, "a place for discussion") so we again get into the semantic argument of forum/board vs. thread.

Way off topic, and your major harping point.

Well, I'd say the thread author is the one responsible for making whatever topic he/she chooses clear so as to avoid any misinterpretation. I have clearly questioned the point of this thread, but evidently sleeper hasn't clarified this alleged confusion. You however come running - which is cute, I'll admit.

So as far as I know, at this point this thread still stands with its initial wording. Hence my argument could hardly be considered off topic.

Originally posted by sleeper
When I started this thread about a month ago the skeptics freaked and pouted and threatened to hold their breath until they turned blue-----so I let it sink to the bottom of the board----I didn’t want anyone turning blue on my watch

I did not rejuvenate this thread and I will let it go back down because the tantrums are starting back up again.

Sleeper,
I'm glad to see that there is a reason other than you losing interest in us here! Although I don't like to see that a few argumentative types are putting you off posting, I say just ignore them!

Originally posted by Durden
Well, I'd say the thread author is the one responsible for making whatever topic he/she chooses clear so as to avoid any misinterpretation. I have clearly questioned the point of this thread, but evidently sleeper hasn't clarified this alleged confusion. You however come running - which is cute, I'll admit.

So as far as I know, at this point this thread still stands with its initial wording. Hence my argument could hardly be considered off topic.

To Durdan.. You seem like an intelligent person, why then can't you grasp that Sleeper was referring to this thread only? He made a mistake by saying forum, but reading it in context it is perfectly obvious what he meant! Can we skip the thread-long discussion about the title of the thread - it really is pathetic!

If you let the man talk you will find that he has a lot of interesting things to contribute to the community, you don't have to believe everything he says, in fact you don't have to believe anything he says, but there is no need to be arguementative just for its sake. It is possible to remain a skeptic and subjective without resorting to petty arguements and sarcasm. If you don't think the thread is for you, then you know what to do.

Originally posted by Durden
Well, I'd say the thread author is the one responsible for making whatever topic he/she chooses clear so as to avoid any misinterpretation.

Well, in your own words, "a healthy amount of careful scrutiny" should allow you to see through any misinterpretation as:

Originally posted by redmage
Obviously sleeper is not an admin., owner, or mod so he has no control over what "This forum is for"(when we use accepted "online" definition/association) but a single thread could be considered a "forum", or discussion area, as well (if we go by the defination of, "a place for discussion") so we again get into the semantic argument of forum/board vs. thread.

Way off topic, and your major harping point.

Yet still, all I see from you are rhetorical complaints and off topic semantic arguments.....A.K.A., hijacking.

Originally posted by Durden
So as far as I know, at this point this thread still stands with its initial wording.

"Wording", you even admit that you're just arguing semantics, cute.

Does this clear it up for you?

dictionary.reference.com...
fo·rum, n.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas

Sounds alot like a "thread" to me. Just because you belligerently choose to use another defininition, doesn't make sleepers intended point any less valid.

Again, no one is asking you to "blindly accept fantastic claims", if you have on topic questions.....ask them. If you choose to believe or accept the answers given.....that's up to you.

However, the terms and conditions you agreed to on this site do ask you to stay on topic, and they discourage "trolling".

Let the semantics argument go and please try to stay on topic.

In the spirit of your avatar/name,

Your assignment is to:

A) Start a fight

and

B) To lose

You've got "A)" down pat, time to work on part "B)"


[edit on 1/26/06 by redmage]

Hello sleeper

Originally posted by sleeper
Some of us don’t have to believe----we know-----if you can’t accept that fact-----to bad

EXACTLY.

I have a poster with the classical "i believe" stuff. I crossed it out and wrote the word "know" instead.

There is no more belief, this word has just no sense. Awareness is all.