This is not a thread to appease non-believers

Non-believers of extraterrestrial intelligent life are a dime-a-dozen

Billions of people on earth are clueless of ET and will remain so; no one here is attempting to change that reality

Most people, the vast majority of humans---believe that humanity is the only tree in the forest

There is no reasoning with that kind of mentality and only fools would try

This forum is for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share about extraterrestrials.

Nothing special about being part of the “dime-a-dozen” crowd of non-believers


[edit on 3-2-2006 by Springer]

Hey sleeper, I read most of your posts when you first started talking about your past. I liked them a lot.

I am one of these denyers you mention, but it's weird because I almost seem to have an anti-UFO magnetic field or something. I wonder if anyone else feels this way. Such things seem to avoid me.

I tried your simple suggestions that by just wanting and asking for UFOs or aliens to reveal themselves, they will. This didn't happen. I sat in the dark for hours, meditating and asking for an alien to visit, but one has not.

I stare at the skies for long stretches in both day and darkness with nothing looking even strangely ufo/alien. I wonder if 2006 will be the year? Until then, I'll have to enjoy the writings of people like you who are 100% certain. How nice that must be. What an advantage it must give you over others who are not so fully clued in, eh?

Some people are 100% certain aliens exist, some even with real trauma like 'Fire in the Sky'-type experiences. I give these people full credence but I say it's gotta be military black ops messing with people's heads. You seem to feel that aliens are a combination of good and bad. But I see them as ONLY bad because they are clearly keeping us stupid if they are here. How else can you explain their obvious collusion with the PTB?

I'll get your discussion started 'cause your posts are always interesting. Tell me this: Do you agree with Phil Krapf's? description of his vist to an alien craft? I enjoyed both of his books but alas, no Verdant alien mamas have beamed down to copulate with me, despite my ferverent prayers.

I have noticed that your posts are often short with good info, but they leave me wanting more, and then there'll be a big one with lots of details. I want your reply to be one of the big ones with lots of details, okay?




[edit on 2-1-2006 by smallpeeps]

Look at 95% of the posts on this forum. A significant number perpetuate half truths, bold unverified assumptions, hoaxed imagery, and reference very questionable web sites as fact.

If the idea is to Deny Ignorance, how could this Forum be set to appease or support Believers.
How objective is a Believer? With whom does the Burden of Proof lie? Should I have to prove that each of every new species of aliens created per week do not exist. Or does that burden lay on the ones saying they do exist? To accept someone saying "they do exist" without proof as a means to perpetuate aliens or UFOs as a whole is the root of Ignorance.

As a skeptic who is intrigued by the subject matter, this forum is about weeding out the nonsense and looking for the definitive, incontrovertible proof that has to date evaded everyone. Remaining objective is the key to finding this proof if it exists.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
I tried your simple suggestions that by just wanting and asking for UFOs or aliens to reveal themselves, they will. This didn't happen. I sat in the dark for hours, meditating and asking for an alien to visit, but one has not.

Hm... I feel pretty confident that if I tried this I could get it to happen sooner or later. Actually, now that I think about, this would probably only work for you if you had some sort of previous visit.

I would try this myself, but I'm not quite comfortable with the idea. Maybe some time in the future.

Anyways... there's tons of skeptics/non-believers and believers out there. Either way you go, you're still going to be part of a larger group of people. Nothing more special about believers than there is about non-believers. I, myself, am a believer. But I am not a believer because I think I should join up with the underdogs and be part of the cool group (and believe me, I'm not saying you are either), I'm a believer because I know enough for myself to believe it is the truth.

I agree with your view on trying to convince someone who's natural instinct is to question and deny (nothing wrong with that, that's just how some people are, and it keeps a balance). It is rather pointless to attempt to change someone's opinion without factual evidence. Even with it this can be a daunting task, especially after someone has already declared themselves a non-believer. One thing people hate the most is to be proved wrong, and they'll fight to the end to not look ignorant. Better left untried. Save yourself the time and effort. The most anyone can do right now is share their part of the big story and carry on.

Originally posted by nullster
Look at 95% of the posts on this forum. A significant number perpetuate half truths, bold unverified assumptions, hoaxed imagery, and reference very questionable web sites as fact.


As a skeptic who is intrigued by the subject matter, this forum is about weeding out the nonsense and looking for the definitive, incontrovertible proof that has to date evaded everyone. Remaining objective is the key to finding this proof if it exists.

Bravo

Originally posted by smallpeeps


I am one of these denyers you mention, but it's weird because I almost seem to have an anti-UFO magnetic field or something. I wonder if anyone else feels this way. Such things seem to avoid me.

Hi smallpeeps,

I don’t think you are a skeptic you claim to be, your curiosity is genuine, and you seem to know down deep inside that ET is real, therefore you probably had an encounter, they just didn’t let you remember any of it.

I tried your simple suggestions that by just wanting and asking for UFOs or aliens to reveal themselves, they will. This didn't happen. I sat in the dark for hours, meditating and asking for an alien to visit, but one has not.

It’s their call whether they will visit with you----and then let you remember that they did.

Most visits are business related and not casual “talk around the water cooler” stuff. As a matter of fact in their ships you will not find a break room, or snack and beverage machines anywhere. They don’t take coffee breaks, nor do they seem to need any kind of entertainment as we humans do.

I stare at the skies for long stretches in both day and darkness with nothing looking even strangely ufo/alien. I wonder if 2006 will be the year? Until then, I'll have to enjoy the writings of people like you who are 100% certain. How nice that must be. What an advantage it must give you over others who are not so fully clued in, eh?

Every day is a disclosure day, 2006 will not be any different other than thousands more will know that ET is real.

Disclosure is done one person at a time it’s not a group activity, after all, humans are not cattle, although some believe themselves to be apes.

Some people are 100% certain aliens exist, some even with real trauma like 'Fire in the Sky'-type experiences. I give these people full credence but I say it's gotta be military black ops messing with people's heads. You seem to feel that aliens are a combination of good and bad. But I see them as ONLY bad because they are clearly keeping us stupid if they are here. How else can you explain their obvious collusion with the PTB?

The vast majority that know that ET is real----do not talk about it---they have no need to---and some of these people are in sensitive positions or occupations, and they are forbidden to talk.

There are good ones and bad ones---but they all work for the same organization---and I am not taking about god.

Humans don’t need any help being stupid; instead, ET is working to reverse that human handicap.

I'll get your discussion started 'cause your posts are always interesting. Tell me this: Do you agree with Phil Krapf's? description of his vist to an alien craft? I enjoyed both of his books but alas, no Verdant alien mamas have beamed down to copulate with me, despite my ferverent prayers.

Thank you, most people seem to be insulted by my posts.

I haven’t read Phil Krapf so I can’t comment on his books, sorry.

I have noticed that your posts are often short with good info, but they leave me wanting more, and then there'll be a big one with lots of details. I want your reply to be one of the big ones with lots of details, okay?

Again thanks!

Lot of details? I have fifty plus years of ET tampering with me and a whole lot of information gathering dust in my brain but the problem is retrieving that information---not easy without specific questions----like searching yahoo without a specific word(s).

Not that I can or will answer all questions.

Nevertheless, I’m humbled that you asked.

Originally posted by sleeper
Most people, the vast majority of humans---believe that humanity is the only tree in the forest

I wouldnt say that the current statistics agree with you on that. Vast majority implies we're a very small minority that do think something is going on. 1/3 of the american public isnt exactly small. What about the rest of the world?
Supportive link

Originally posted by nullster
Look at 95% of the posts on this forum. A significant number perpetuate half truths, bold unverified assumptions, hoaxed imagery, and reference very questionable web sites as fact.

You shouldn’t be so hard on the skeptics, it’s probably more like 90% are being untruthful with their denial stories, like blimps, weather balloons, and two old men with boards and rope creating elaborate crop circles in a few minute in total darkness.

If the idea is to Deny Ignorance, how could this Forum be set to appease or support Believers.
How objective is a Believer? With whom does the Burden of Proof lie? Should I have to prove that each of every new species of aliens created per week do not exist. Or does that burden lay on the ones saying they do exist? To accept someone saying "they do exist" without proof as a means to perpetuate aliens or UFOs as a whole is the root of Ignorance.

Most people that don’t believe aren’t wasting their time at UFO sites----even with proof many of these people would deny the existence of ET. Their minds have been blocked perhaps intentionally for some unknown reason.

As a skeptic who is intrigued by the subject matter, this forum is about weeding out the nonsense and looking for the definitive, incontrovertible proof that has to date evaded everyone. Remaining objective is the key to finding this proof if it exists.

There are skeptics and they there are career debunkers----many of these debunkers are the originators of much of the fake stuff----they create the fake pictures, plant the weather balloons, and write incredibly stupid stuff.

And that bad press works, it keeps thousands of legitimate stories from the public view.

I spend more time debunking debunkers than telling my story----and the debunkers know that----they are doing their job very well----keeping more people like me from coming out of the closet.

But that’s OK, most people will find out through personal disclosure through ET----those billions who haven’t yet will have to wait patiently for their turn.

If you don’t learn the truth in this life you will after you die, guaranteed!

Originally posted by sleeper

This forum is for those who are curious about extraterrestrials and for those few people who have had experiences they wish to share about extraterrestrials.

Says who? You're implying this forum isn't for skeptics. I think this forum is for anybody who wants to discuss ETI, whether they're a believer or a skeptic.

It's interesting that you take aim at the skeptics who visit these boards. Think about it for a minute friend. Why would a skeptic visit these boards? Because, as you mentioned, they want to believe. But many of us, as bad as we want to believe, have not yet seen any hard, physical, scientific evidence to prove or disprove anything. Thousands of nutjobs come to this forum and claim all kinds of outlandish things. It wouldn't be very enlightening if we just took them all at face value would it?

So we skeptics visit this forum, searching for the next big story, the next amazing event, and when we find it, we research it, discuss it, attempt to debunk it, and then make a decision on whether it's real or fantasy.

Nothing special about being part of the “dime-a-dozen” crowd of non-believers

In fact, I believe there's something very special about being a "non-believer" as you label skeptics. For the same reason I'm proud of myself for not being sucked in by organized religion, I'm proud of being able to retain my objectivity and not just accept someone else's word on blind faith. That's what you're doing. You're asking us to accept your personal belief on blind faith. Whatever you experienced has not happened to me, so why would I believe it? Because you're a good guy and wouldn't lie to me? LOL

How do I know you're not mentally ill? How do I know you're not socially dysfunctional and looking for attention? I don't.

The greatest discoveries ever made were made by men trying to disprove theories and legends. When they discover they can't disprove and debunk, that's when real discoveries are made.

So show us the money my friend... come with the proof. Hard, scientific evidence. Until then, I'll continue to be a skeptic, and I'll continue to debunk, because at least that way I'll know what to believe instead of taking someone else's word for it.

Abovetopsecret was made for a purpose. Theres plenty of sites out there for skeptics or believers of anything, but ATS was made to have a mature, proof bearing dicussion on all matters, with all points of view and beliefs.

sleeper - A bit funny but I am more referring to posts like Billy Meir is the New Nostrodamus, God is an Alien, Lion People and increased load of wishful/fanciful posts I saw posted just before the holidays.

There is an extreme shortage of very credible modern era UFO/Alien stories. Here we are now in 2006 but I expect the UFO shows on the History Channel will remain compelled to retread Roswell and 1960-1970 events over and over and over. I am soooo tired of hearing the word "Alleged". In these shows that basically means "Don't quote us on that". So who is accountable?

If I was a devout believer, I would probably be in a crisis about now. As a skeptic I am patiently waiting for that big Deal Maker, that drops my jaw and knocks me on my can. In all honesty as technology and the Interenet advance I expect even less credible accounts and photos to surface.

I was just reading the other day how the birth of the internet has actually put the smack down on UFOs and has emboldened a whole new generation of skeptics.

Think about it. Suddenly, in the last ten years, we've got the ability to immediately broadcast our UFO and Alien abduction experiences to the world. Go outside, videotape a UFO landing in your back yard, then go inside and put it on the web for all the world to see.

But coincedentally, right when we have the ability to expose the whole thing to the entire planet, the sightings have dried up, save for a few blurry lights photographed in night skies with no foreground objects for scale and with no discernible shape. Suddenly the aliens are camera-shy. Hmmmm, now I wonder why that is?

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by sleeper
Most people, the vast majority of humans---believe that humanity is the only tree in the forest

I wouldnt say that the current statistics agree with you on that. Vast majority implies we're a very small minority that do think something is going on. 1/3 of the american public isnt exactly small. What about the rest of the world?
Supportive link

There are many people that believe that other planets may harbor microbial life

But those believing or knowing of super intelligent life (ETs) capable of traveling light-years in a few hours, days or weeks----not many of those people around.

And certainly not one third of the American population believes that way

"There is an extreme shortage of very credible modern era UFO/Alien stories. Here we are now in 2006 but I expect the UFO shows on the History Channel will remain compelled to retread Roswell and 1960-1970 events over and over and over."


Nullster, there are some modern UFO cases worthy of merit. Just because mainstream media doesn't put them out there doesn't mean they aren't important. Here are a few that were covered by media- Belgian traingle 1989-1990, the Mexican wave 1990s, Brazilian Roswell 1996, massive Phoenix sighting 1997, Mexicxan airforce videos 2004

Originally posted by AlphaMail
I was just reading the other day how the birth of the internet has actually put the smack down on UFOs and has emboldened a whole new generation of skeptics.

But coincedentally, right when we have the ability to expose the whole thing to the entire planet, the sightings have dried up, save for a few blurry lights photographed in night skies with no foreground objects for scale and with no discernible shape. Suddenly the aliens are camera-shy. Hmmmm, now I wonder why that is?

I've thought the same thing...the internet has actually reduced the amount of UFO sightings.

I think there is another reason also for the dry up...and that is the end of the cold war and the space race. In the past keeping this a secret was a priority so getting a straight answer from anyone was impossible. Now we have people camping at Area 51, Russia trying to sell its space vehicles, the Europeans working together towards space...all of it is out in the open except for the USA's black projects. The cold war ended just when the internet started to bloom, if it hadn't we may still be seeing a lot of UFO reports that were really US-USSR aircraft.

The aliens (which I believe to exist) were pretty much interested in our nuclear technology. Of course there could be millions of reasons besides that but I think that was the biggie. Nukes don't seem to be such a big deal anymore though Iran sure got checked out the last couple years by some UFOs (or more likely USOs-United States Objects).

The internet has filtered out the knucklehead claims which is great. Though a lot of legit cases have entrenched the belief in aliens even more since they have stood up to worldwide scrutiny. I do miss the good old days when I was a kid and they had UFO magazines with crappy stories on Atlantis, and fakey pictures of UFOs from South America...all trash but it was fun and it opened your imagination and kept you scared at night.

As a skeptic who is intrigued by the subject matter, this forum is about weeding out the nonsense and looking for the definitive, incontrovertible proof that has to date evaded everyone. Remaining objective is the key to finding this proof if it exists.

Well said.

And remember, skeptics provide a great service to UFOlogy....they keep us from shooting ourselves in the foot when one tries to tout an untruth as evidence....

Originally posted by bruise massive Phoenix sighting 1997

Bruise you seem like a sensible guy but the "Phoenix Lights" have been debunked without a shadow of a doubt. If you haven't seen the show yet, one of the learning channels... TLC, Discovery, I don't remember which... did an exhaustive study on the Phoenix Lights with the contention that they were signal flares dropped by the military.

If you remember the video, it was of six or seven points of light which seemed to be in formation, and which winked out, one at a time, in a specific order, until they were all gone.

They superimposed the nighttime video of the lights over a daytime video (which showed a mountain ridge not visible in the nighttime video) taken from the same spot, and the lights went out at exactly the moment they passed below and behind the mountain ridge in the distance, in the same order they went out in the nighttime video.

Signal flares dropped by the military.

Of course that didn't prevent citizens of Phoenix from giving eyewitness reports claiming they saw huge, silent ships hovering over their homes. And it hasn't prevented alien proponents from continuing to claim there was a credible sighting in Phoenix in '97. But the fact remains... the only hard evidence they had (the video) has been thoroughly debunked.

[edit on 1/2/2006 by AlphaMail]

Originally posted by AlphaMail

Says who? You're implying this forum isn't for skeptics. I think this forum is for anybody who wants to discuss ETI, whether they're a believer or a skeptic.

My headliner said “appease”

It's interesting that you take aim at the skeptics who visit these boards. Think about it for a minute friend. Why would a skeptic visit these boards? Because, as you mentioned, they want to believe. But many of us, as bad as we want to believe, have not yet seen any hard, physical, scientific evidence to prove or disprove anything. Thousands of nutjobs come to this forum and claim all kinds of outlandish things. It wouldn't be very enlightening if we just took them all at face value would it?

Everyone is a skeptic of something, including me.

I take aim at malicious debunkers that lump all ET experiencers (not a word but will do) into one pigeon hole of crackpots.

There are thousands of nut jobs out there but you have to agree that many of those nut jobs are UFO debunkers disguised as ufo nut jobs.

Some stuff is so bad that it should be obvious that it is a prank----instead it makes headlines---no wonder that legit stories never come to the surface

So we skeptics visit this forum, searching for the next big story, the next amazing event, and when we find it, we research it, discuss it, attempt to debunk it, and then make a decision on whether it's real or fantasy.

Sometimes the real deal gets tossed out with the bath water because those searching for the truth can’t visualize it, or comprehend it, and become frustrated and impatient.

Mobs form and the fool who step on stage is tarred and feathered before he or she gets to the good stuff.

Naturally only fools believe things that have no proof and the world is full of fools---one need only look at history or the newspapers or Hollywood.

Hollywood is the biggest fool maker on the planet yet the vast majority believes the crap that comes from it.

Yeah I know none on us are falling for that propaganda machine----statistics say otherwise.

If you want the real-deal-truth about phenomena you haven’t personally experienced, it's not going to happen on this planet or on this board.

People don't fall for the crap stories----people fall for the squeaky clean really good ones.

Are mine crap or squeaky clean? I don’t know, but they are true!

Well, stupid question to ask but here goes,

IF there is Intelligent life interacting with humanity, would it not make sense to leave the people with an open mind and only "abduct" those skeptics in order for humanity to cope with the possibility of disclosure?

The facts are this :-

Over 95% of ufo discussions are debunkable. Its the odd 5 % that arnt.
Most of those 95% are hearsay memos,(devoid of any pictorial evidence - and most of these submitted are proven thesis for paintshop pro students) well sorry dude - i can hear this stuff at any bar , if i can find anyone disected enough from society to mention this , what i like to term "urban legends"

Surly the ufo community in general would prefer hard science and hard facts to backup most of these claims.
A discussion on this subject matter would imply to me anyway, that its a two sided sword - you simple cannot expect people of all creeds to beleive most of your claims, and most others here.

There is a place for us sceptics ,( and we occupy the other side of that two sided sword. - and most of the time its a very lonely place - im forever ridiculed for my stand alone opinions) - and that place is to disect the evidence, and sift thru the crap and find the facts.

Surly you dont expect the world to be occupied by people who just swallow everything we are fed?

This isnt a cussing down of you sleeper, ive really got better things to do then argue with faceless entitys on a website.


I hope ive made myself clear on this submitted subject matter.

I include a thread i started - now id sooner beleive an astronaut then a memo on a website - wouldnt you??

www.abovetopsecret.com...

sincerely yours.







[edit on 23-1-2006 by Im a true sceptic]