NEWS: Boston City Officials Say It Is A 'Holiday' Not 'Christmas Tree'

Originally posted by snafu7700
if 94 percent of americans want to call it a christmas tree, then why is the government caving in to appease the other 6 percent?

Why should the government be putting up christmas trees in the first place? When the demographics change, should it be putting up Diwali Lights in the Town Hall or should the mayors office have a big statue of some other Wintery God?

whatever happened to "majority rules?"

Screw the majority. Who said they should have power anyway? Majority Rule on a national level is a mobocracy.

then let people of other religions/beliefs find volunteers and donated money to set up their own kwanzatree or hanukkahtree....of course, i never hear of them wanting such a thing.

pheonix....i'm researching and will answer your highly inflamatory post shortly....

snafu

if you can do this at your local church why not do it there. where it belongs. its doesnt belong in stores and other places like that. happy holidays works. i dont care about having the lights up around the city and stuff, because it in no way ties in with religion, nor does this tree really. if you want it in public places your going to have to compromise with the new times.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
if you can do this at your local church why not do it there. where it belongs. its doesnt belong in stores and other places like that. happy holidays works. i dont care about having the lights up around the city and stuff, because it in no way ties in with religion, nor does this tree really. if you want it in public places your going to have to compromise with the new times.

WHY? Why our churches? Why not the stores? Does our commerce offend you? Why should we "compromise with the new times"? I'm just curious.

These are all points from your post.

because its YOUR religion, not mine. YOUR religion belongs at YOUR home and YOUR church. im not interested in your religion so it doesnt belong in places i would commonly go like a walmart.(i am not personal offended by christmas, most of my family are catholic and celebrate it. im simply talkin for the side that is offended by it that i know exists)

that answers most your questions except compromising with new times. and the simple answer is this, we are growing more diverse. this country is changing whether you like it or not. maybe 200 year ago the minority was oppressed so their opinion was worthless but now there is a much bigger minority and in that case we must adapt if we wish to hold peace.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
because its YOUR religion, not mine. YOUR religion belongs at YOUR home and YOUR church.

MY religion? I'm not religious. This is a tradition, it has to do with our way of life, NOT RELIGION!

im not interested in your religion so it doesnt belong in places i would commonly go like a walmart.(i am not personal offended by christmas, most of my family are catholic and celebrate it. im simply talkin for the side that is offended by it that i know exists)

Your religion, our religion, you want to choose one? I'm not getting your point.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
. im not interested in your religion so it doesnt belong in places i would commonly go like a walmart

I am all for viciously stamping out x-tianity in all places that it has no right to be, however, a company/corporation has the right to display whatever decorations it sees fit; not only in its stores, but also on the grounds it leases/owns.

If it really offends you that companies blatantly engage in religious whoring, then why do you not express your dissent by not shopping there?


[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Oh really? First, is your faith of the christian persuasion?

yes, most definitely

If so, then you must rely on that transmission of knowledge from somewhere, yeah? Sure it might not be proof, but to deny that your belief in christ is not based upon the writings of the bible is assenine, and impossible.

just because i dont need written scripture to believe doesnt mean that i dont read the bible. again, faith does not require you to completely agree with your particular sects take on the scripture. i disagree with many of the church's interpretations of the bible....but that doesnt mean i am not a christian. you have to read the bible and decide for yourself what faith means to you as an individual. what christ's words mean to you. you cant get that by searching "tree" at biblegateway.com and merely spouting out a few passages.

oh, and by the way, its spelled 'asinine.'

If you have faith in the bibles fable of christ, perhaps you should put a bit of faith into the rest of what it says, instead of picking and choosing what you like based upon nothing other than how you were raised.

i have, and continue to do so.... maybe you should read the whole thing instead of picking a choosing passages from a search engine in order to refute believer's posts. trying not to be so hateful in responding would help a little too.

you can call it a 'fable' if you so choose....doesnt offend me. it probably does offend god, but you can take that up with him in the next life.

Show you? Why should I show you? Perhaps you should take the time to go a few pages back and you can see for yourself what scriptures I provided.

i dont know what makes you such an angry person, but you should really read some of christ's words...you might actually find peace and solice in what he has to say to you.

I will be nice though...

Third, and last time

Jer 10:1-4

1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

www.biblegateway.com...:1-5;&version=9;


Now please show me scripture that contradicts that a tree decorated in gold and silver is not considered as "heathen". Furthermore, show me scripture that advocates said practice.

no problem:

isaiah 40:18-30

to whom then will you liken God?
or what likeness will you compare to him?
the workman molds a graven image,
the goldsmith overspreads it with gold,
and the silversmith casts silver chains.
whoever is too impoverished for such a contribution
chooses a tree that will not rot.

we could go on and on, tit for tat. i'll be more than happy to oblige if thats what you want, or if you would like to truelly become closer to the lord, i will be more than happy to provide a few scriptures for you.....whatever you like.

but to get back to the point of this thread......

this is a democracy. 94% of the people want it called a christmas tree. it's payed for and set up by volunteers. we shouldnt be allowing 6% of the population dictate to the other 94%. if we did this sort of thing on a regular basis, then we would no longer be a democracy, because the nazis, the klan, and hari karishiners (sp?) would be running the show.

Originally posted by snafu7700
yes, most definitely

Of course you are

just because i dont need written scripture to believe doesnt mean that i dont read the bible.

You are not being honest here. If it was not for written scripture then you would have no knowledge of your fabled x'st, therefore you do need scripture to believe.

you have to read the bible and decide for yourself what faith means to you as an individual. what christ's words mean to you. you cant get that by searching "tree" at biblegateway.com and merely spouting out a few passages.

FYI-- I can, and have read the bible, many times and in many languages. I like your subjective x'tian interpretations though, no wonder none of you guys agree with each other.

oh, and by the way, its spelled 'asinine.'

As usual when someone can not prove their point they rely on attacking spelling, and or grammar. Did I berate you when you misspelled inflammatory above?

i have, and continue to do so.... maybe you should read the whole thing instead of picking a choosing passages from a search engine in order to refute believer's posts. trying not to be so hateful in responding would help a little too.

Please see the post before the above, thank you.

i dont know what makes you such an angry person, but you should really read some of christ's words...you might actually find peace and solice in what he has to say to you.

Why does that make me an angry person because I expect you to go back and actually read what you are getting involved in before you comment? To paraphrase Walter in the Big Lebowski: "Shut the F up Donnie, you are like a child who walks into a conversation with no point of reference."

no problem:

isaiah 40:18-30

to whom then will you liken God?
or what likeness will you compare to him?
the workman molds a graven image,
the goldsmith overspreads it with gold,
and the silversmith casts silver chains.
whoever is too impoverished for such a contribution
chooses a tree that will not rot.

No prob? Are you kidding? The above proves, nor states anything. You simply picked the first passage you could find with gold, silver, and tree in it. Please explain how the above supports the practice of killing and decorating trees, especially in the name of Christ?

we could go on and on, tit for tat. i'll be more than happy to oblige if thats what you want, or if you would like to truelly become closer to the lord, i will be more than happy to provide a few scriptures for you.....whatever you like.

No thanks, you have already proven that you know next to nothing when it comes to scripturally discusing this matter. I will not indulge you any further, thank you though.

this is a democracy. 94% of the people want it called a christmas tree.

So, who cares? Democracy is a fancy way of saying mob rule. 94% of the people in hitlers Germany had no prob with the Jews being treated the way they did...perhaps you missed your time?


[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Incredible that still many don't even realized what Christmas is all about in our capitalistic society.

People wake up and stop the bickering, is only about religion for the faithful at hart for the rest of us that are not much incline to be religious or to follow any religion but that still like Christmas celebration, is about joy and happiness and to be able to for once a year have something to be Joly about.

For our nation is a time to get the economy going after a year of perhaps bad times.

In our capitalistic society Christmas season or Holiday season is more important than religious believes, is all about profits and money.

Still is good for the faithful that wants to celebrate their idol of worship and is good for the businesses that are pushing their goods.

And if you don't like it then you are a The Grinch that wants to steal Christmas for everybody else that accounts for the majority in our country that love the Christmas tree and Santa.

Just stay in your house and wait until is all over.

[edit on 2-12-2005 by marg6043]

yes i could do so but im not personally offended by it, im speaking for people i know who dont celebrate christmas or see any point for it being such a big deal. plus walmart is just doing it for the money so i really cant argue with that.

i dont think you get the point. you can call it whatever you want. if 94% of the public wants to go around calling it a christmas tree, be my guest. the other percent rather call it a holiday tree. the only difference is they are offended by it being called a christmas tree when its being put up on the property it was. i say for ever christmas tree put up on public grounds such as a park or whatever there should be a symbol put up for every other religion that exists in this country. if you say no then explain why.

I hate this time of year
It really brings out the worst in people
Racist songs like "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas" fill the air
What kinda racist crap is that?
Freakin racists! They ruin everything!

I just wish that the people who call themselves Christian would speakout about the truth of what The Bible teaches as loudly as they do for the right to attach the name of Christianity to their seasonal, pagan 'pig outs'.

Attaching so much pagan nonsence to a Faith that warns against pagan practices, and demanding it be accepted as Christian, has done a very great deal to stop the truth of the Christian message being heared and understood.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I just wish that the people who call themselves Christian would speakout about the truth of what The Bible teaches as loudly as they do for the right to attach the name of Christianity to their seasonal, pagan 'pig outs'.

That's just it though. Most of them don't understand thier own religion in the first place so how could they possibly be trusted as reliable sources of information even if they did speakout about it???

Attaching so much pagan nonsence to a Faith that warns against pagan practices, and demanding it be accepted as Christian, has done a very great deal to stop the truth of the Christian message being heared and understood.

Just how do you think those Pagan Practices got attached to Christianity in the first place???

It was done by the Christians who were trying to "Convert" the Non-Christian's (Pagans) into following the Christian Dogma instead. But since they were basically forcing it upon them even though they didn't want it they had to trick them into it. By allowing the people to continue thier normal external celebrations but changing the names and ideas they originally represented the people resisted less to the changes.

It appears to me that the end result however is that now nobody can untangle the mess of who's tradition belonged to who. Like they say, "What a tangled web we weave, once we practice to decieve."

People can celebrate whatever holiday they want and I'm not offended by it. I've got more important things to do than mess with peoples rights to do as they please.

Christmas is Christmas, just like any other holiday.

Your rights are being attacked, and that's what needs to be noticed. Same type of stuff as the Patriot act, rights being attacked. I mean are you going to be locked up for saying "Christmas?" Sometimes I wonder if this really is the "home of the free."

Troy

lol thats the whole thing, your not getting locked up for calling it a christmas tree. its simply the politically correct term now. wow no right was violated. plain and simple

Part of the Christian message is to to be aware of those preaching another/false gospel, who have always been with us, such as those who promote the "traditions of man", like perpetual, "seasonal" rebirth, ahead of the promise that ALL will be resurrected to a chance to accept living forever under God's law of love and justice.

It bugs me that so many people who have studied religion but don't believe in The God of Christianity, will use corruptions of the faith, that it warns against, to try to tear down the whole faith and yet manage to avoid the issue of
WHO has been instigating the corruptions, since when and WHY.

Faithfull people have been deceived since Eden and knowing this, God has the greater judgement for those who knowingly deceive, lesser judgement for those too proud to admit fallibility to search for the truth and merciful justice for those blinded by the all too many deceptions.

Some of you guys are killing me. Yes, your rights are being trompled on. Someone is telling you what something is supposed to be called. What other holiday normally puts up a Christmas tree besides Christmas?

Oh, there are those who will say "Christmas" is not politically correct, and attack the use of the word, saying this is offensive. Isn't that intolerance in itself? No one is forced to celebrate Christmas.

Holy cow, and we aren't talking about blurting out racist comments, it's a word, "Christmas." Why is this offensive anyway?

Troy

Unwissenheit bestritten !

[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Ewige Blumenkraft!!!!!!

Sorry... Just a little Illuminati humor from Robert Anton Wilson...

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Of course you are

i know you meant that in a derogatory manner, but i'm perfectly secure in my faith, so you can continue the sarcasm all day long...it is funny though how those without faith tend to be quite sarcastic when conversing with (or in this case berating) those of faith.

just because i dont need written scripture to believe doesnt mean that i dont read the bible.

You are not being honest here. If it was not for written scripture then you would have no knowledge of your fabled x'st, therefore you do need scripture to believe.

you are spinning my words out of context and you know it.

of course i would have no knowledge of christ without scripture, and as much can be said for any other religion on the planet. since you dont seem to understand, i will try to simplify it for you.

scripture is a wonderful place to start, but it is not the end all be all. we dont live in the dark ages where the majority of believers were illiterate and therefore depended upon their religious leaders to tell them what the bible said and what it meant. it is up to each individual to interpret the meaning for his or her own self. i dont need every single passage of the bible to agree in order to believe. nor do i need to take every single passage literally. i simply have to believe that jesus christ is the way, the truth, and the light, which i do without hesitation.

FYI-- I can, and have read the bible, many times and in many languages.

yup, must have heard this about a hundred times now. we seem to have quite a few self proclaimed bible scholars here, when it suits their argument. strange that.

I like your subjective x'tian interpretations though, no wonder none of you guys agree with each other.

do i have to point out, once again, that every major world religion has many different sects? why do we have to agree in order to be faithful? gods love is big enough for many different interpretations of his word.

As usual when someone can not prove their point they rely on attacking spelling, and or grammar. Did I berate you when you misspelled?

first, when did i mispell? it wouldnt have bothered me if you had corrected my mistakes...i enjoy learning new things.

second, i'm sorry if you were offended....i guess some people are just too stubborn to learn something new.

third, you have berated and condescended in every single post youve made so far. do you actually know how to have a discussion without bringing irrational emotion into it?

Why does that make me an angry person because I expect you to go back and actually read what you are getting involved in before you comment? To paraphrase Walter in the Big Lebowski: "Shut the F up Donnie, you are like a child who walks into a conversation with no point of reference."

sorry, mustve touched a bad nerve there. and, um, i dont really know what your problem is here, because i have read the whole thread and responded where i felt i could add to the conversation. maybe instead of once again berating me, you could rephrase this last paragraph into a meaningful question?

No prob? Are you kidding? The above proves, nor states anything. You simply picked the first passage you could find with gold, silver, and tree in it. Please explain how the above supports the practice of killing and decorating trees, especially in the name of Christ?

i'm sorry, i guess i figured such a knowledgable scholar of the bible would understand. that's ok though, i'll explain for you:

your passage is talking about god's disdain for the creation and worship of idols and images. mine is contradictory in that he is saying its ok to create them as long as they are in tribute to him. if you go back to our previous posts, i mentioned that i could find a contradictory passage for every supporting passage you find for your arguments. as you reposted your supporting passage, i followed suit with a contradictory one (forget the fact that you took yours way out of context with the rest of the passage in order to make it fit your argument).

oh, and incidentally, i didnt just take the first passage i read with a tree and silver and gold. i actually took out my king james version and my wifes new international version, looked up your passage in both, and checked the references (which i'm sure having read them in many different languages you are quite familiar with) for additional passages. i found quite a few actually. i'll be more than happy to post them all if you'd like.

No thanks, you have already proven that you know next to nothing when it comes to scripturally discusing this matter. I will not indulge you any further, thank you though.

yup, that's the other thing all the self proclaimed bible scholars say when you call them on their crap.

So, who cares? Democracy is a fancy way of saying mob rule. 94% of the people in hitlers Germany had no prob with the Jews being treated the way they did...perhaps you missed your time?

ouch, now we're really getting nasty, arent we? funny how all those people claim not to have known what was going on. furthermore, its funny you should mention democracy and nazi germany in the same sentence. a little ironic dont you think? doesnt work very well for your argument.

oh, and one last comment.....whats with the X in place of the word "christ?" are you so scared of christian belief that you cant even bring yourself to utter his name? and you call me childish?