NEWS: Boston City Officials Say It Is A 'Holiday' Not 'Christmas Tree'

ok.

they've been calling the "chrismas trees" for ever now.

now they just want to rename it?

if it really bothered people wouldnt they of acted years ago?

hell im sure even liberals call em christmas tree.

we have to give in to 3% of the population? what ever happened to majority rule?

While I am not doubting the supposed facts you are stating ShroudofMemphis I would rather you or anyone else provided some links with your comments so as to show others you are not just pulling "facts" out of thin air or repeating what may be rumors you have heard from others?

one thing you have to do to start a police state communist country is abolish/persecute religion... why because everyone should belive in there country not something else so go ahead bush make it so that churches have to pax taxes and every member that goes to the church has to register and give there finger prints just in case its a terrorist prettending to go to church to look non terrorist. also make it illegall not to carry identification at all times... why because terrorist cant get ids thats why so thats a 100 percent full proof way to fight terrorism..... for some of the air heads out there im being sarcastic

wow people are so angry because we renamed a tree. big deal.

some one said it just destroying tradition. first off most of those arent official holidays. your not getting off of work for valentines day or st. patricks day. so those you celebrate because you feel like it. they arent goin to get rid of any holidays...they make too much money off of them. (which in my opinion is why they are hyped so much. thats another topic though)

anyway it does matter, unless your considering the name 'holiday tree' offensive then whats the problem? no they arent infringing on your right or oppressing your freedom of religion. they are removing it because some people find it offensive. like i said, they find christmas tree offensive, unless you find holiday tree offensive (which is just about impossible) then shut up and stop acting like your religion runs the country. compromise, they are asking for the name of something, they for some reason find offensive, changed. they arent asking for christmas to be stopped. if they did anything even remotely close to that they would be laughed at.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
wow people are so angry because we renamed a tree. big deal.
...
then shut up and stop acting like your religion runs the country. compromise, they are asking for the name of something, they for some reason find offensive, changed. they arent asking for christmas to be stopped. if they did anything even remotely close to that they would be laughed at.

Wow Reaper, you're only 99.93214567890123 % offensive about something you claim to have no interest in. As an aside from a Shakespearian episode... Methinketh you protest a bit too loudly, too often, and far too offensively.

Unlike you, who has his Godlike figure in his life, hereafter called Science, many folks had traditions of Christmas, St. Patricks Day, Valentine Day, etc. And many of those same folks do not feel comfortable with the change of tradition. But you are an elightened scientist type and should know this. Yet you still wish to beat on others who are not, perhaps, as enlightened as you.

As a Scientist Wannabe, or whatever it is that you are in school for, what if we started finding the math and science irrelevent (kind of what is going on now with the Big Bang Evolutionist vs Divine Guidance Gurus)... and they started pulling it from schools or denying that it may be taught... Sort of like what has happened in Kansas. Think you might start feeling a bit uncomfortable if they made it illegal to even discuss or participate in the advancement of science?... Sort of like what has happened in places like Laos, Cambodia, parts of China? And some places in the USA...

Guess all I'm really saying is chill with the stick beating stuff. No one really needs it ... Things are tense enough as it is, what with Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson screaming for blood.

Ok so I go to Liberty University, and it kinda made my night, and made me laugh, because Falwell was talking about this the literally a day ago at Convocation. He's dead serious about taking these things to court. BTW, this isn't because he is the chancellor of my school, but Jerry isn't out for blood. I had a really negative view of him myself, but after coming here, I see he isn't that bad. It's just all the negative that get publicity, but he has just as much right to express his opinion as any crackpot.

[edit on 1-12-2005 by GrendelsBacon]

The issue is deliberately being obfuscated here, no individual rights are being supressed with this. The issue is that public money and land are no longer being given over for solely Christian benefit. This is motivated by the threat of litigation aimed at local, state and federal government.

This has absolutely no effect on what people do with their own personal property, beliefs or money. No one is stopping any one from erecting a pine tree in their front yard and calling it a Christmas tree. So where is the problem?

To have an issue with what Boston City has done here you must be for the idea of public money and land being given over to specific religions. Therefore, if you were to get your way you shouldn't complain when you get taxed so that the local Muslim community can feast after Ramadan at the local town hall. Or that you're paying for shrines to Vishnu out front of the local court houses.

[edit on 1/12/05 by subz]

Originally posted by grimreaper797

anyway it does matter, unless your considering the name 'holiday tree' offensive then whats the problem?

If you want a Holiday Tree.. pick a different tree... there is already a Christmas tree.

And besides, if it's not a bid deal, why rename a tree in the first place.

Originally posted by rmatrem
And besides, if it's not a bid deal, why rename a tree in the first place.

It is a big deal. Would you be happy to get hit with a tax increase to pay for every other religious festival and its trappings? Why is it you find it acceptable for non-Christians to be forced to contribute financially towards celebrations they do not believe in? Do we have a choice of where our tax dollar gets spent?

If you don't have a problem contributing to those other religions, then your moral position is sound. However, if you would object to paying for them then you would be hypocritical and your position is unjustified.

[edit on 1/12/05 by subz]

Originally posted by DYepes
While I am not doubting the supposed facts you are stating ShroudofMemphis I would rather you or anyone else provided some links with your comments so as to show others you are not just pulling "facts" out of thin air or repeating what may be rumors you have heard from others?

If your really interested in seeing the origins of a lot of the bibles stories then i suggest this book being a good start:

Jesus Lived in India: His Unknown Life Before and After the Crucifixion

Apart from the people who believe the bible is fact and refuse to acknowledge anything else, if you read this book (or a similar one), you will see that a lot of the 'magic' in the bible has been adapted from other religious stories or else derived from historical fact that is grounded in common sense and was given a 'godly' twist by Paul.

It makes a strong case that Jesus taught a form of living that was rooted in Buddhist philosophy of honoring life and equality and mixed with other ideals that suited the time. There is a buddhist monestry with around 7,000 scrolls documenting "Isis" who was a man that came and lived with them for many years and who they exchanged wisdom and philosophy with, these dates fit perfectly with the 'missing years' in the bible. Isis (Jesus) was inspired by the many Buddhist monestries that existed in the Middle East during that time. India alone use to span as high as Iran and included Pakistan and Buddhism was widely spread and this is why he made his way down to India to further expand his mind.

Christianity as we know it is purely a creation of Paul who took many stories that documented "Isis" and his journeys and teachings and re-wrote them in order to cement a new religion in a new empire - the origins of religious control - the opposite of what Jesus originally taught.

Christianity is actually "Paulism", he's the one who created it, helped destroy original texts (of which some surviving scrolls have since been found) and changed the course of history. He never knew Jesus or anyone that knew Jesus, nor was anyone alive during Pauls life that was alive during Jesus life.

Paul was a religious historian and took the story of Jesus as his way of creating a new religious movement of which he was the head, he even used to persecute Christians until he 'converted' and started writing the gospels.

Constantine was who made Christianity law and that's where it all took off.

The person who is known now as Jesus, has never been portrayed properly since Paul wrote the Gospels and disregarded the original texts written during Jesus life that explain he wasn't the son of God, he was just a messenger trying to tell us that we are ALL a part of God.

As far as the tree re-naming is concerned, i can understand taking the "Christ" out of it since it has nothing to do with Jesus anyway - even sticking to the bible version. Might seem like overkill but maybe more people will celebrate the good parts of Christmas if it's not associated with Christ.

Call it Xmas i say. Say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" etc etc.

We don't call the Easter Bunny the "Passover Leporidae" do we so whats the big deal in giving a tree which has no relation to Christianity a name which can be appreciated by all?

All things must pass. Christians had a good run owning a holiday which commercially has nothing to do with their beliefs or the beliefs which founded their celebrating Jesus on that day.




[edit on 2-12-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by rmatrem
And besides, if it's not a bid deal, why rename a tree in the first place.

It is a big deal. Would you be happy to ... blah blah blah...

[edit on 1/12/05 by subz]

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal...

Originally posted by rmatrem
I didn't say it wasn't a big deal...

No, you asked a question...and I answered it.

O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
Wie treu sind deine Blätter.
Du grünst nicht nur zur Sommerzeit,
Nein, auch im Winter, wenn es schneit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
Wie treu sind deine Blätter.

Sorry to break it to all you X-tians, but even your "bible" speaks against your beloved Tannenbaum, long before X-rist was supposedly born.

Jer 10:1-4
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

www.biblegateway.com...:1-4;&version=9;


O Tannenbaum...


[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

I agree with K_OS, for me it has nothing to do with religion . If the term Christmas Tree had any aspects however minimal, relating to religion, for alot of us this has no bearing. It has always been called a Christmas Tree (TRADITIONALLY) and should remain so. The term itself is used by a large majority of people worldwide. Also forgotten here is the fact that the tree was given as a gift, as it is every year to New England in response to aid for the disaster that hit Halifax in 1917. The tree didn't cost taxpayers anything, and for any that grumble about the space it takes in your precious city, for shame on you. A gift was given in the name of Christmas and should be gracefully accepted as such.

Why in the world would you change the name of a tree, just to please a few percent of the population? The “Christmas tree” is a tradition, and traditions should never be changed. What next, you going to complain and want to change “Christmas Eve” and “Christmas day” to Holiday Eve and Holiday day? That sounds really stupid coming off your tongue. It’s all about traditions; even non-Christians celebrate “Christmas”. It’s a time of year to celebrate the end of the year and for the Christians it’s a time of year to celebrate Jesus’ birthday, whether he was born on that day or not. So leave the tradition alone and keep calling it Christmas, because it is a true tradition in a lot of countries in this world. It should not be changed for a few idiots who think they can raise a little stink and blame it on a religious belief. Which by the way this country lives and breathes by Christianity, everyone who doesn’t believe that or would like it to be otherwise, take all your money and burn it, because the American dollar says it best “In God we Trust”, and I’m sure all you Americans love the mighty green and can’t live without it. But, if you want to, you can always go live in China or Russia or any where else but here, hey it’s a free country, so leave and leave our traditions alone.

Sorry if I offended anyone, just getting tired of losing what this country was.

holiday day.

And the lyrics to the beloved songs !

"O Holiday tree O Holiday tree."

Oh well, christmas really is turning into a farce. Its more about getting good electronic presents than anything.

Tis a shame.

Originally posted by Dulcimer
holiday day.

And the lyrics to the beloved songs !

"O Holiday tree O Holiday tree."

Actually the original lyrics to your "beloved song", which I provided above are: "O Tannenbaum, O Tannenbaum"

Try going to the site below, and type in Tannenbaum, choose the German to English translation, then see what comes up, I guarantee it will not be Christmas tree.

You X-tians really should learn the history of "your" traditions.

babelfish.altavista.com...

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by rmatrem
I didn't say it wasn't a big deal...

No, you asked a question...and I answered it.

Possible insult edited.
Isn't Holiday derived from Holy day? ... hmmm... there is a non-rhetorical question... meant to be answered.

Anyways, the Christmas tree is NOT a Christian symbol...

North America was predictably late in adopting such signs of frivolity as Christmas tree decorating. The Massachusetts Puritans' second governor, "William Bradford, wrote that he tried hard to stamp out 'pagan mockery' of the observance, penalizing any frivolity.... In 1659, the General Court of Massachusetts enacted a law making any observance of December 25 (other than a church service) a penal offense; people were fined for hanging decorations. That stern solemnity continued until the nineteenth century, when the influx of German and Irish immigrants undermined the Puritan legacy. In 1856...Christmas was made a legal holiday in Massachusetts...." (from "Panati's Extraordinary Origins of Everyday Things," Charles Panati).

DO YOU GET IT? It was a pagen practice of decoration...

Most 19th-century Americans found Christmas trees an oddity. The first record of one being on display was in the 1830s by the German settlers of Pennsylvania, although trees had been a tradition in many German homes much earlier. The Pennsylvania German settlements had community trees as early as 1747. But, as late as the 1840s Christmas trees were seen as pagan symbols and not accepted by most Americans.

You can find that HERE

HELLO! The Christmas tree IS a sign of tolerance of religion, foreign beliefs and tradition...

The problem is people are so uneducated about history it's scary! Knowing the history is essential for knowing the 'why'...

That's why School is Cool, People!

The Christmas Tree is the Germans fault... blame it on the Germans!

It's a Christmas tree... if there is a Holiday Tree, then it is some other tree with some other traditional background unknown to me...

Maybe these concerned people should make a time machine and influence the name of the tree at it's origin... maybe then, we would have peace on earth...

[edit on 2-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

It gives one pause to reflect ... How many angels, do any of you suppose dances on the head of a pin????

Simply curious over this "much ado about nothing"...

Feel free to ignore me.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Actually the original lyrics to your "beloved song", which I provided above are: "O Tannenbaum, O Tannenbaum"

Try going to the site below, and type in Tannenbaum, choose the German to English translation, then see what comes up, I guarantee it will not be Christmas tree.

Certain insult edited.

The song refers to the tradition of bringing a FIR tree inside and decorating it with candy, baubles, bells and so on... well we call the tradition Christmas and the logic followed... Christmas Tree... it's not the direct translation of the word, but the MEANING of it.

That is the problem with using translators, it doesn't understand the context inwhich it is being used.



[edit on 2-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]