NEWS: Boston City Officials Say It Is A 'Holiday' Not 'Christmas Tree'

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

What I do not like is ignorant people screaming bloody murder about how the tree's meaning is rooted in x-tianity, when the fact of the matter is, it is not, and their very bible deems it as Heathen .

Hogwash if that were the case then the Pope would not endorse the Tree by explaining its symbolism.

Pope explains symbolism of Christmas tree

If the crèche symbolises the birth of Christ, the Christmas tree—which never dies in winter—reminds us of Christ, ‘the tree of life’, and, through the gifts that are found under it, symbolises the God’s supreme gift to humanity.

After speaking about the crèche before last Sunday’s Angelus, the Pope today spoke about the Christmas tree, it, too, a symbol of celebration but above all of gift-giving.

www.asianews.it...

[edit on 12/2/2005 by shots]

Shots

I never mentioned the symbolism of the x-mas tree, I mentioned the roots, and the roots are Not x-stian, no matter how much you or anyone else tries to argue otherwise.

The symbolism however, has pretty much remained unchanged since pagan times. Just replace the birth of the x'st, with the birth of the sun, and you will see that they are one in the same. Son of god/sun of god, dismissed as coincidence? The tree that remains alive in the dead of winter/the tree of life...

Funny that you would choose the catholic church to prove your point , considering the fact that they are more influenced by paganism than any other x-tian sect I can think of right now.

You still defend the x-mas tree, yet conveniently ignore the fact that the x-tian bible considers it as heathen, why is that?


[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Come on now, Christmas is an American tradition. It is a legal federal holiday for gosh sakes. Anyone who attacks Christmas is attacking what makes us who we are. This is a nation who's President pardons a turkey every year at Thanksgiving for crying out loud. Everyone knows that Christ wasn't born on December 25th, who cares? It's a day set aside each year to celebrate his birthday. Personally I appreciate any excuse to celebrate. Everyone knows that the Christmas story didn't happen the way it is portrayed, who cares? It's a great story! I especially like the one about the little drummer boy, rat- ta- tat. Who cares where the tree comes from, it is here, it is harmless, it is fun and my dog likes to pee on it. Nothing better than me and the wife, decorating the tree, listening to the Carpenters Christmas CD, drinking some Christmas libation. Man even Snoopy and the Red Baron stopped fighting long enough to drink a toast on Christmas. To Christians it is so much more but it is an inclusive Holiday for family and friends. It is a time to set aside all the crap we have to deal with all year and stop and greet each other with a smile. The Christmas tree is a symbol of hope, a reminder of a simpler time and a happier place. It is a childs imagination gone wild with wide eyed anticipation. It is the fat old guy with the white beard and red suit. Now where on earth would Santa leave the presents if not for the Christmas tree? Think about it! On behave of all the gang down at the Rusty Pelican (my favorite watering hole where we are decorating the Christmas Tree tonight) and for my macaw Pedro, I'd like to wish you all a very Merry Christmas!

[edit on 2-12-2005 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
You still defend the x-mas tree, yet conveniently ignore the fact that the x-tian bible considers it as heathen, why is that?


[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

The answer to that is very simple. Unlike you I do not take the bible literally since it took approximately 1600 years and was written by many people who each had their own thoughts. One of the first things a christian learns is not to take the bible literally which is just what you appear to be doing to try and make your point.

That is however only for a whole new thread and would be off topic to dicuss it further here.

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM
On behave of all the gang down at the Rusty Pelican

Not to get off topic....but

God that brings back memories, haven't been there since I lived in Huntington (over ten years now). Now that I slum it in the LBC it's Joe's Crab shack for me , lol.

Have fun decorating your tree tonight, whatever the F@$% you call it.

originally posted by subz

Oh for crying out loud. No one is saying you cant celebrate or call it Christmas. All that is being changed is that the local government cannot have any part in it. How hard is that to understand?

and it was shown that the whole thing is set up by volunteers, the government has no part in it.....what about that is so hard for you to understand?

Originally posted by shots
One of the first things a christian learns is not to take the bible literally which is just what you appear to be doing to try and make your point.

That is however only for a whole new thread and would be off topic to dicuss it further here.

Yes, it is for another thread, however let me just state this... You are doing the same thing that most x-tians do. You are willing to point to certain passages or official church standings supported by scripture to prove your point, which you expect others to take as literal (such as the very existence of x'st, or the supposed x-tian roots of the x-mas tree) yet conveniently ignore, or dismiss as figurative, that which conflicts with what you believe, and/or practice whenver people bring it to your attention.

Must be nice.

pheonix:

umm, name me one religion in the world in which different sects of the same religion do not have many different interpretations of said religion.

also, show me any argument that you have backed up with scripture, and i will show you another line of scripture that contradicts it.

it's called "faith". if you dont have it, fine. but i do, and i dont need any written proof to back it up with. as much as i'd like you to believe, i dont really care if you dont.

Originally posted by snafu7700
pheonix:
it's called "faith". if you dont have it, fine. but i do, and i dont need any written proof to back it up with. as much as i'd like you to believe, i dont really care if you dont.

Thanks Snafu I could not have said it better myself.

--------
pheonix

I have not quoted any scriptures, all I did was give a current view of the Pope. He too believes it is a symbol of Christmas and that was my only point. You see; unlike you I can realize that the cristian faiths have evolved over the years which is a good reason not to take the bible literally as I pointed out.

If you think about it and just look around then you will see that we are inudated with symbols. Our money, flag, national emblem, every state has a great seal. A symbol can be adopted to mean something entirely different, for instance the Nazi Swastika was derived from a Native American symbol for peace. For Christians the sign of a fish was replaced by St. Andrews Cross which was orginally an X and not the T shape we use today. But that just proves my point that symbols are adopted or changed to suit the user. It doesn't matter that there is no biblical justification for the Christmas tree because it has become the symbol of Christmas. To a true Christain the tree, Santa Claus and the gift giving are all but trappings leading to the real meaning of the Holiday and that is the birth of Christ. A recent poll shows that 94% of Americans celebrate Christmas, 94%!! That doesn't mean that all 94% believe in God only that they participate in the Holiday. Which means that an overwhelming number of Americans from every religion, every race, every walk of life take part in Christmas making it the most popular TRADITION in America. It is traditions that make our lives more richer. The great thing about Christmas is how so many other traditions have been assemilated into it from other cultures to make it what is is today and that my friends is why it is so accepted by so many. But it is and always will be Christ Mass (Christmas). If you are going to take Christ out of the Holiday then do away with Christmas all together. I as a Christian will certainly not miss the commercialism. I will celebrate it regardless in my own way. But as long as it is called Christmas then stop with all the PC bull and the Xmas crap and call it what it is, CHRISTMAS!

shots i have a question....if the pope says this tree is the only that doesnt die in the winter....then how does all the other tree live longer then 1 year or less? i mean if they are dead then they would stop growing right?

look your personal right and beliefs you celebrate however you like. though i rarely ever agree with what Nygdan says, i pretty much would say hes right on this one. it shouldnt be held on any public property (any type of shopping or park property) with any government cost put toward it.
put it at your local church with your own money, be my guest. front law with you own money, fine. not in a park where its a public area. unlike your own land, people shouldnt have to avoid it because you want it in public areas.

and as i recall some one said something about science being a religion? science isnt faith, you dont just hope it happens this time around. if i say because of thermodynamics this bush will light on fire when we put this heated rod to it for a certian amount of time, i bet my money that everytime it will catch on fire. you saying god will light a bush on fire, youd have to pretty much put your faith in and hope he does it. science is about coming out with the same outcome repeatedly so that your point is backed. religion is just faith and hope. that why its allowed in schools. religion is faith, therefor has no use in school. there is a difference.

this is offtopic though. plain and simple you can do whatever you want, but as far as public property and funds, leave it to your local church or temple or whatever its call for the religion you celebrate. (this goes for all religions not just catholic and christian)

Christmas means quite literally "mass of Christians". So tell me why are others that don't believe in Jesus Christ celebrating this day?

I'm not a Muslim, so I don't observe Ramadan, I'm not of African descent, so I don't observe Kwanza and I'm not Jewish, so I don't observe Hannukah.

I would never try to stop these groups from celebrating theie religious holidays neither. That's them.

Besides, the older I get, the more I resent "religous holidays". Why can't we observe our faith 365 days a year? It's all a money racket in modern times. To me, the modern definition of Chrismas is: who can get the better toy, the most toys or the most expensive "fashionable" toy.

And the merchants and marketers scramble over who can make the most profits in this season when we're suppose to remember our Saviour and the sacrifices He made by coming into this disgusting world of ours.

This is truly way out of contrast of what "Chistmas" should be about. To me, the world has taken a Precious and Holy name and defiled it for it's own selfishness. And the world on the most part is teaching our children to do the same. Shame, shame, shame!

If we can only study the life and mission of Jesus Christ and really live by what He teaches us, then everyday would be "Christmas" and there wouldn't have to be a special day set aside to observe the birth of our Lord.

Besides, we don't even know the month, day or year He was born amoung us heathens and sinners.

Merry Christmas and a Happy Near Year though.

[edit on 2/12/05 by Intelearthling]

Hum . . . funny how the Pope in his Christian interpretation of a pagan believe by pass the humble beginnings of these symbol of worship.

After all the worship of the fir tree was nothing more than a pagan believe incorporated into Christian believes.

But what it amazed me more is that where Jesus was born in the desert all the have around was date palms.

It should be the holy Christmas date palm.

It seems that almost everything in the Christian believes has roots on pagans worshiping.

I still like the Christmas tree, I don't care if they named the Jesus holy tree.

Originally posted by noslenwerd
This has all got to stop. I'm not sure anything makes me more mad than all this taking "Christ" out of "Christmas".

HE IS THE REASON FOR THE FREAKING HOLIDAY!

If you don't want Christ in Christmas... DON'T CELEBRATE IT!

Plain and simple. We wouldn't have the holiday if it wasnt for CHRIST!

/rant

Actually Winter Solstice is the reason for the Holiday. Christ wasn't even born in the month of December, "Christ"-mas was created to oppose the Pagan holiday of Winter Solstice which was held at around the same time.

Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
Actually Winter Solstice is the reason for the Holiday. Christ wasn't even born in the month of December, "Christ"-mas was created to oppose the Pagan holiday of Winter Solstice which was held at around the same time.

As I recall that would have been the festival of Saturnalia. Christ's was born earlier in the year, October if memory serves.

Originally posted by snafu7700
it's called "faith". if you dont have it, fine. but i do, and i dont need any written proof to back it up with. as much as i'd like you to believe, i dont really care if you dont.

Oh really? First, is your faith of the christian persuasion? If so, then you must rely on that transmission of knowledge from somewhere, yeah? Sure it might not be proof, but to deny that your belief in christ is not based upon the writings of the bible is assenine, and impossible. If you have faith in the bibles fable of christ, perhaps you should put a bit of faith into the rest of what it says, instead of picking and choosing what you like based upon nothing other than how you were raised.

Originally posted by snafu7700
also, show me any argument that you have backed up with scripture, and i will show you another line of scripture that contradicts it.

Show you? Why should I show you? Perhaps you should take the time to go a few pages back and you can see for yourself what scriptures I provided.

I will be nice though...

Third, and last time

Jer 10:1-4

1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

www.biblegateway.com...:1-5;&version=9;


Now please show me scripture that contradicts that a tree decorated in gold and silver is not considered as "heathen". Furthermore, show me scripture that advocates said practice.

[edit on 2-12-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by shots
pheonix

I have not quoted any scriptures, all I did was give a current view of the Pope. He too believes it is a symbol of Christmas and that was my only point. You see; unlike you I can realize that the cristian faiths have evolved over the years which is a good reason not to take the bible literally as I pointed out.

So are you a gnostic then? I mean, do you believe in the corporeal Christ? If so, then you do take parts of the bible literally. If you want to take that part literally, then perhaps you should be consistent, and follow through with the rest.

If you are a gnostic, and you do not believe in the corporeal christ then I apologize in advance.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
I would never try to stop these groups from celebrating theie religious holidays neither. That's them.

Is someone trying to stop you from celebrating Christmas?

There's a commercial on TV right now that says:
Merry ChristmaHannuKwanzakah!

Many people celebrate a winter Holiday, not necessarily Christmas. Can we all share the freaking tree?

Happy Holidays!

^lol exactly

that is the simple point that we fail to understand. here in AMERICA where there are many different religions its unfair to be spreading around on without the other. im not seeing kwanzza(sp?) sales. nor and i seeing giant manurahs(im sorry if i spelt this wrong as i am not fimilar with these religions) being put up. thats the simple fact.

Another point is that:

Jewish people celebrate Hanukkah, nobody else. There's no need to change the name of the Menorah because nobody else uses them.

Black people celebrate Kwanzaa, nobody else.

Christian people celebrate Christmas and a lot of others do, too. Right or wrong, that's the way it is. The birth of Christ has gotten tangled up with Santa Clause and presents and jingle bells.

If we were to really do what's right here, the Christians would celebrate Christmas, not by fighting for the best bargain at Walmart and opening indulgent presents on Christmas morning and watching football after making a glutton of themselves, but by solemnly praying around a manger scene, perhaps fasting in reverence and honoring the birth of their savior.

So, to all the Christians who are so bent out of shape because 'they're taking Christmas away from you', I suggest you think twice about what's important to you about Christmas. I never hear this much complaining about the consumerism that has totally overtaken the Christmas holy day, but man! Don't take away my 'Christmas Tree'! :shk: