Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Centrist

Now you'll need to pull many of us from the truly skeptical ranks and address us across the aisle -- but the truth does prevail in the end.

Regards,
Wayne

Awesome post I think it was much needed at this point in time, at least for me. I have sat on the fence this whole time thinking Bill was just being misunderstood or something. I thought I would be patient and give him more time.
With the way things have unfolded lately it has been very difficult to "suspend disbelief". I have been pretty much on the verge of giving up completely on Bill, but I still hold out just in case there is a major turn around (doubtful though). I just needed some confirmation to come to some kind of conclusion. The confirmation I was waiting for was Centrist's recent post, which pretty much sealed the deal for me (with a small redemption hatch for Bill). Centrist being in communication with Bill and other insiders, I figured his word is the most credible (and because of his rep here).

Now I am left to wonder... What will happen to the Serpo information now? IF Anon2 keeps sending info to Bill, and he keeps on "posting them as is"-- how can we trust ANYTHING that gets posted?

Im still amazed at how Bill has gone from a person that comes off as completely honest and reliable, to a highly suspect and maybe even shifty individual. Mind-boggling.

All the posters here that jump in and out of this thread all the time, and complain about being confused should make sure to read Centrist's latest post. Clears up a lot.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Unplugged]

I think this story is whack. Scientist's on a mission across the galaxy to another planet with other beings and they can't even make a simple clear and concise report, or diary of daily important event's? I figure each person would carry their own log. In addition, not to mention the shady story of a 2 sun planet that's hot barren, but on the other hand has tropical jungle's and bla bla and even polar caps and running streams of water. Not sure if running water or icecaps, but with ones speculation if you have a jungle you have running streams of water, clouds etc. Wouldn't you think? Maybe i'm missing some thing here.

Furthermore, no details of water filtration or purfication processes ect. things like that. Nothing in super great detail of technology, lifestyle, descriptions. This story is lacking credible information just in itself. In addition, why use numbers to identify scientist?? In a way I do understand this, I use to be an officer and had to make reports. There is reasons for codes etc. over radio's and such and keeping time is very important times dates, everything the fact's! This though is a little different; you have a team of scientist leaving their home planet for years and years and may even die in this mission and they can't call each other by name?

Now a drawing of a energy device pops up. Ok, someone probably used a template to draw on paper what the device looked like (fair enough). To me in a slight way it does look like a device of some sort with mounting holes that look like keyholes or "toilet" look to it. Again, it could be keyed like that to allow it slide over a screw then tighten down. Round things with triangle could be knobs etc. Again, not a story or info to backup just what the hell it is.

The only thing I will bring up -- is have any of you been abducted?

Maybe, somehow, they consider what they are doing is more important than the people posting what they think they are doing?

Perhaps, to find people willing to step forward and not fear about telling them their abduction story.

I do not know, about any of it, but with some it seems to hinge on some things some others may not feel that is important.

If it is some personal feeling about the way it is presented, then perhaps, they do not consider you as being more important than what they are trying to achieve. Is it right or wrong or shades of grey?

I do not know. I do not know about Project Serpo and why. I do realize that perhaps everyone is trying to find some truth out, but again some people will have different opinions than others about any of it from abduction cases to seeing reports to creating jokes about dome-head boys.

Well, as long as not everyone becomes -- dome-head some type of hybrid boys and girls or something not equated with being fully human, I guess!

For once I just posted first, instead of reading the next pages, now back to a few minutes of that.

Now perhaps make sure everyone is comfortable about all of it, otherwise there are other things to do. Have not seen one, can not update anything. Can't say either one way or another, except what I read about it.

However, do not abduct children, either human or spacealien!
Prove there is not a God, perhaps!

Just wanted to do my part in helping this thread along. Cover your ears.











Edit: If a picture is worth a 1,000 words, let this be a 6,000 word essay on Serpo.

[edit on 2/7/2006 by Arm Of Geddon]

Wow great post centrist, that has just sealed the deal for me.

I have always been on the far side of the fence and Bill has just pushed me right off it, the man obviously has a underlying agenda.

All i ask, is that if you are reading this Anon please use another medium to get the information across, like Victor.

I’ve tried to follow this thread since it started and found that it moved along faster than I could follow, Thanks to Centrist for the last post, it helped to clear something’s.

Like most I am willing to wait this thread out and see where it ends up. I would like to now if the original Anon is still in touch with Victor or has he gone completely silent? (Sorry if it’s been covered already)

If not could Victor through a trusted medium hear on ATS relay any info (if he’s allowed) to compare where the inconsistencies are in what been posted.

I would like to thank Val for her "full dosclosure" of the what and why of her actions regarding this whole affair.

It is interesting that those who have been around ATS long enough could recogonize there was rhyme to her reasons (even before we were clear about them) and realize that she would not be acting the way she was without due cause.

It is also interesting that many new faces, who have no history or awareness for Val and ATS were mainly the ones saying "poor Bill". Where are those people now that Val has told her whole story. This alone is very telling.

I cannot see the point in continuing to find explanations to defend Bill's actions under the circumstances now. It's been said before, but I will say it again. Pointing out what a "great guy" Bill was prior to the hard questions is coming across as rather silly at this time. He obviously came across as a charming and open individual in the beginning, but this only reinforces in my mind, after the more recent events, that it is all the more reason to be wary of him. But then, I am jaded, having too many real life incidents with people who are masters at portraying themselves as something they are not.

Without Bill himself at this point making VALID points as to where and why this whole thing got so convoluted on his end, I personally would not begin to speculate as to defensible reasons for his actions. And he CAN'T do that without answering some hard questions. It is moot.

We need to get past Bill now and focus on what if anything is left of this entire episode.

Edit: I will contradict myself for one brief moment and say it is possible Bill's ego got the best of him and he got sucked into something he may now be embarrassed to admit. However, the right thing to do then is come clean, get over himself and admit that so we can focus on a unified effort to disseminate the information.

Edit This: Oops - thought I was editing my original post and accidentally quoted with a new response.

[edit on 2/7/2006 by Relentless]

Originally posted by Damocles

im not asking WHERE he/she works, just if, in your opinion, what you know about anon lends credibility to the original posts.

ty

I was picking up that people had misunderstood me when I said I knew "where he worked", so in my detailed review of the happenings I made sure and said "the town where he lives and town where he works". I don't know for whom he works.

Victor may know that. And I'm certain he wouldn't tell.

Originally posted by Centrist

From: Bill Ryan
Sent: Sun 2/5/2006 6:12 PM
To: >Victor Martinez; Wayne
Subject: A message from Valhall


Victor, Wayne: this is the piece of poison in whom you both place so much faith.

Wayne, your reply below disgraces you.

This is interesting, because it appears to be a reply sent to Centrist and Victor about an email I sent to Bill on the same night the confrontation took place here. I sent it immediately after Bill ran away and then sent his accusations (all of which were false) against myself, ADVISOR and ATS as a whole. Since we're practicing full disclosure, I might as well put up what I emailed Bill which was so "poisonous":

To: "Wayne", "Bill Ryan", ">Victor Martinez"

Subject: RE: Are Bill and I dealing with the same ANONYMOUS,...hell if I know! (

Past Regrets

In an attempt to better understand Bill Ryan's behavior and motives, which still leave me feeling puzzled and uncertain, I have been pursuing a line of investigation I had previously criticized: his involvement with Ron's Orgs.

I originally joined the chorus of those who thought doing so was irrelevant to the question of Serpo and an unnecessary ad hominem digression.

Now I know I was wrong to discourage research into this connection, and I apologize to those I criticized for doing so.

Since Bill's decision to fall silent at such a crucial moment for Serpo left me with so many questions, I decided to try to find out more about him and have revisited some of what he's posted about himself.

Some of my concerns can be found in a post here: Bill's Org

However, that is literally only the tip of the iceberg.

Why Bill's Religion Matters

Despite my own run-ins with Scientology while working at an ISP during the '90s, I really knew little about it.

My interest in Scientology then revolved around the problems my company (and industry) faced in trying to deal with the technological aspects of rafts of lawsuits against ourselves and some of our customers while the Church of Scientology was in a particularly litigious period of its sordid history.

Having spent some time last night looking deeper into Scientology, Ron's Orgs and how that may all affect Bill's attitudes toward Serpo, I now see what Shawnna and others were trying to warn us about: it matters.

How heavy into Ron's Orgs is Bill Ryan?

Apparently, according to this, he became a member in 1987 and as recently as last month was actively involved in at least one new UK chapter. In fact, I can't be sure, but based on what that link contains, I suspect his recent travels in Switzerland may be related to Ron's Org activities.

So why should it matter if Bill is into Dianetics and Scientology?*

Because Scientology teaches that alien spirits are the cause of our problems in this life.

A Test Of Faith

If Bill embraces this doctrine, as he appears to do, then this belief stands in direct opposition to his objectivity as a “messenger” regarding extraterrestrial life.

Another way to look at this would be relying on Pat Robertson to be objective about the second coming of Jesus. It doesn't mean he can't be neutral, but it sure makes it a lot more unlikely.

Again, to those against whom I originally sided with Bill on this matter: I'm sorry.

I was wrong.

This was and is relevant to understanding Bill's motives, and his evasiveness about his beliefs seems to be only one suspicious pattern among many.

Based on what I know now about what Bill apparently knows, I am now satisfied that Bill has indeed been deliberately deceptive toward us in downplaying this, if nothing else.

Expecting us to make a leap of faith as Bill has makes more sense when we realize that he was always already there.








*NOTE: Dianetics and Scientology are at the heart of Ron's Orgs. They represent an organizational schism from the Church of Scientology, but practice the same religion, analogous to Catholics and Protestants. Seen in this light, Bill's quibbling regarding the importance of these beliefs and their impact on his objectivity appear dishonest, and disappointing.

where are the recently registered ryan-apologists now?

yyzzyy?

eben?

unplugged?

whiterabbit29

alien hunter

futureafter


anyone?

bueller? - - - - - bueller? - - - - - bueller?

i hear the sound of silence.



centrist, you are mostly correct.
but bill is involved with this hoax. he was 'sent' to victor's list in an innocent way to help husband the story along. the group designing this hoax had no idea it would get so popular so fast here on ats. because of that, you, valhall, and others exposed 'most if it' before they could mature it. if it was allowed to mature before the kind of popularity it received here, it may have become a wildly popular recruitment mechanism for rons org. that was/is the ultimate goal here. why else would 'they' be so quickly opening new chapters now, and telling their faithfull that 'a new game is starting'?

majic, you are close
the rons org connection is the center of it all. all of it.

the 'switch' to a new 'anon' was part of the game/hoax/plan to create a sense of clandestine mystery that the ufo-believers love so much.


its not over
this is not the final chapter
these people are nothing if not tenacious
watch for a resurgance of 'serpo' based on some of your own comments about 'anon1' possibly being a real source of real information. they will use your own, now public, research against you in reviving the hoax. soon, after a pause, you will see new talk along these lines. they may avoid ats, or come in head-on and hope to capitalize on your own comments. watch for this and be wary.

So what exactly was Bill Ryan's objective? Does anyone think it is as serious as him actually being a government disinformation agent or something? Or is he just someone out to ruin the story. Or was he serious about trying to convey the story, but just decided to 'embellish' it a little bit, or... was he just completely insane .

So it's also safe to assume that the "scan" was entirely fabricated by Bill himself, and never even came through Victor? You know... that one that was made entirely with the drafting stencil thingy.

Edit: Just read the post by Majic a few up from this one, and yes... the scientology thing also seems like a good motive for him to try and ruin the whole thing. I just don't understand why he would be interested in UFOs and on a UFO mailling list to begin with then, though.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Yarcofin]

Thank you.

You are much more eloquent than I.

There is one point I disagree with though:

Originally posted by Majic

Apparently, according to this, he became a member in 1987

I posted previously information which is a list of promotions within Sea Org. The Sea Org group was to L. Ron Hubbard what seminaries are to Catholic Churches. A "Bill Ryan" is noted on this list as being promoted to PO in 1975. (not sure what "PO" means at this point but it doesn't matter). While I can't PROVE it is our same "Serpo Bill", what I do know is this:

1. There are no other Bill Ryan's that I can find affiliated with Scientology in any way.
2. When the Church of Scientology imploded in the late 1980's, anyone who was part of the implosion and/or spin off groups was "declared" a "Suppressive Person" and an "enemy". And a list of those individuals and groups is maintained by the CoS.
3. A "Bill Ryan" is listed on the enemies list of the CoS.

When I asked Bill about all of this, in a very respectful way, he denied that this was the same Bill Ryan. Which is exactly as I suspected he would. You have to ask yourself why would the CoS put an individual on their enemies list if they were not part of the implosion and only started studying their mind control techniques in 1987? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Frankly, I believe Bill Ryan was a member of the CoS, and lied to us about it. Can I prove it? No. But Bill has not proved to us that he was wasn't, either.

My previous post related to this is here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by Yarcofin

So it's also safe to assume that the "scan" was entirely fabricated by Bill himself, and never even came through Victor? You know... that one that was made entirely with the drafting stencil thingy.

Edit: Just read the post by Majic a few up from this one, and yes... the scientology thing also seems like a good motive for him to try and ruin the whole thing. I just don't understand why he would be interested in UFOs and on a UFO mailling list to begin with then, though.

[edit on 7-2-2006 by Yarcofin]

I'll try to clear these two up...

From what I understand the scan definately did NOT come through Victor.

Ryan was NOT on the UFO list until right after Victor began receiving Anon #1's emails.

And now for my own question:

Where have all of our new members apologizing for Ryan gone?

Springer...



[edit on 2-7-2006 by Springer]

MY MY MY!!!!!!



A UFO story that turned out to be a hoax?

FOR SHAME!

*passes out bowls of strawberry ice cream*

Be right back, gotta turn up the sitaar music real fast.


Scientology, Tisk Tisk billy boy.

What are you in the Org? An OT? "Operating Thetan"?

So you know you're an ancient alien master then?

What OT level?



This. Is. Sick.


X


ps Proud and big ups to Gaz for keeping back and seeing what's what. I did too.


Game Over.

Talk about disintergration !!!! I cant believe the turn of events lately.....My guess is that Anon must be wondering "what the hell happened?? now what do I do ??" and his DIA buddies must be saying " HA ! - the disinfo worked !!"

I hope somehow this smoothes out........this will set disclosure way back.

Well, I for one am a new member, and I am still here.

I am sure many of the 'new members' are still lurking around, watching what is happening, and unfortunately many of them are probably afraid to post.

Curiously enough though that one of the owners would comment on the new members not being around. I would think ATS would value the addition of new members and new blood into this or any other forum.

While I am sure many of the 'believers of Bill' had several accounts to login and support him as much as possible, even they cannot account for the increase of members to ATS. In short, if SERPO had no other positive effect, it gave ATS some free advertisement.......

I for one am still interested in the story, and as always have been along for the ride. Whether it is a story of science fiction, or science fact.....

BTW, just to add to the chorus, great post Centrist.

Thanks so much to everyone who contributed to this amazing situation! Centrist, Valhall, Skeptic Overlord, Majic, Shawnna and others, I am in awe of the minds, the critical thinking, the logic and intelligence by which I find myself surrounded!

As to all the Bill Ryan supporters, I hope they feel comfortable to come here to ATS and be regular members, regardless of where they stand on the Serpo situation.

And I, like Majic (I feel like his puppy sometimes, I follow him everywhere! ) am open to Bill explaining things to clear up any 'misunderstandings' that might be leading most of us to the same side of the fence upon which we've been firmly ensconced. I can jump right back up there if necessary, or even hop to the other side, if given the incentive.





[edit on 7-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Please don't misunderstand my point... New members are always welcome here, we actually have not had a significant increase in new registered members since serpo started, we average around 60 - 100 a day and have held pretty close to that before, during and since serpo mania.

Also, creating multiple user accounts is expressly against our TAC of use for the obvious reason of adding FALSE popularity or "strength" to one's stories or comments.

Lastly, AboveTopSecret gave serpo lots of "free advertising" certainly NOT the other way round.

The point of my query was, yesterday there were several new members who appeared , to me at least, to be nothing but SHILLS for Ryan, now they seem to be silent after much of the salient facts were exposed last night. Just an observation on my part.

WELCOME to ATS by the way.

Springer...


[edit on 2-7-2006 by Springer]