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Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?
page: 232share:
Originally posted by alien hunter
Has anybody else noticed that Centrist is conspicuous by his abscence. Looks like he has done a runner too. Can't say I blame him he was taken in by Bill hook line and sinker.
There is something called LIFE that most of us have. I just heard form Centrist and he's on his way home from WORK and will reply when he gets a chance.
I too wonder why all these 1 month or less tenure members have suddenly appeared and are suddenly experts on our site?
Springer...
Would Anyone Like To See The Original Post 13?
I have it courtesy of Victor, in Victor's style.
It details things that were edited out by Bill.
If not carry on with IPS and who said what, when.
(To that note, if Bill had nothing to hide, and knowing Victor already had the header info of Anonymous, WHAT pray tell would Bill be divulging?)
Can you spell N-O-T-H-I-N-G?
G
Edit: Would it be okay if I posted Victor's version here Springer?
[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]
I have it courtesy of Victor, in Victor's style.
It details things that were edited out by Bill.
If not carry on with IPS and who said what, when.
(To that note, if Bill had nothing to hide, and knowing Victor already had the header info of Anonymous, WHAT pray tell would Bill be divulging?)
Can you spell N-O-T-H-I-N-G?
G
Edit: Would it be okay if I posted Victor's version here Springer?
[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]
Originally posted by garyo1954
Would Anyone Like To See The Original Post 13?
I have it courtesy of Victor, in Victor's style.
It details things that were edited out by Bill.
Of course. Post it, assuming it's OK with Victor.
Originally posted by YYZZYY
Originally posted by garyo1954
Would Anyone Like To See The Original Post 13?
I have it courtesy of Victor, in Victor's style.
It details things that were edited out by Bill.
Of course. Post it, assuming it's OK with Victor.
You are quite the hotrod aren't you? Now you presume to give authorization here too? Have YOU ever heard of manners mate?
By all means post number thirteen as you got it from Victor Gary... Victor is one source I have NO problem with.
Springer...
Originally posted by YYZZYY
Actually there is no discrepancy that I can see... in the two links you just quoted, Bill AGAIN says "apparently" and "seems" to describe the IPs, just as he did with the quotes I posted.
My point is the same... to the best of my knowledge, he NEVER said he determined Anon's identity based on IPs! I've yet to see any links that indicate he did.
You're absolutely right, dog. Bill never exactly said, ON HERE, the words "I verified Victor's Anon IP and my Anon IP are the same". As many have stated, there has been much discussion on other forums, boards, and U2U's and Bill has not been honest on many occasions about the IP issue. Why don't you just go back to Bill and ask him yourself whether he told anyone he verified the IP's. Since you're his dog anyway right?
The issue isn't about IP's, which you seem to insist on beating a dead horse about. It is the fact that Bill refuses to even tell us HOW HE KNOWS it's the same Anon. I asked him 4 or 5 times when the email chain initially changed from Victor to Bill - whether he has some secret code or signal from Anon which would verify it is the same person Victor was talking to. Guess what he told me? NOTHING. He wouldn't answer the question. Other people asked the same exact question, and he wouldn't answer. All he said to others were "yes, I verified". Nothing further.
WHY? What is the big deal with just saying - yes, we verify with a code word. Only I, Victor, and Anon know what that is. How on earth is that giving ANYTHING away about Anon? But it would have at least told us that there is SOME form of verification that Anon#2 isn't some fake. Code word or something else, telling the method of verification won't give away his identity.
Even now, I'd like to give Bill the benefit of the doubt. But until he explains himself, we'll never be able to get past this problem. I'm sure he'd like to see this issue just go away - but the ATS community isn't one to just ignore some gaping problem like this. Unfortunatly, it needs to be resolved before Bill can really be taken seriously again.
-rdube02
alien hunter, this has all been covered multiple times but if you had read the entire thread you would know that this discussion was started by
Centrist from Serpo's Postings. Bill Ryan was invited to join the discussion here at ATS that had already been ongoing. Mr. Ryan also stated on many
occasions that he was ready to endure any skepticism.
This is not the only place on the internet that is discussing the Serpo ordeal and this isnt Serpo.org so im not seeing how you think ATS Mods and Owners KILLED Serpo.
Ive been riding this rollercoaster since Day one and my .02 is, Mr Ryan had no clue the voracity of the researchers around here. He stuck it out as long as he could but waaaaay to many inconsistencies had been uncovered and unanswered. In order to save face(what little is left) he, as Springer had put so eloquently, He took his ball and went to another park where the kids arent so good at playing ball to make himself feel better.
Now unlike some, Centrist has an actual job and has to work and provide for himself/family. And yet in 3 days time you know the posting/work habits of Centrist. I might get a warning for this but so be it. alien hunter, Your trollness is out-weighing your usefullness and im tired of seeing the same posts over and over from those that havent read a DAM thing and say they have read it all.
The jury is still out for me, i still think something is goin on within the serpo ordeal, but alot less real, if any, than i originally thought.
Good post. See rdubes post above^^^
As always this is just my opinion.
This is not the only place on the internet that is discussing the Serpo ordeal and this isnt Serpo.org so im not seeing how you think ATS Mods and Owners KILLED Serpo.
Ive been riding this rollercoaster since Day one and my .02 is, Mr Ryan had no clue the voracity of the researchers around here. He stuck it out as long as he could but waaaaay to many inconsistencies had been uncovered and unanswered. In order to save face(what little is left) he, as Springer had put so eloquently, He took his ball and went to another park where the kids arent so good at playing ball to make himself feel better.
Now unlike some, Centrist has an actual job and has to work and provide for himself/family. And yet in 3 days time you know the posting/work habits of Centrist. I might get a warning for this but so be it. alien hunter, Your trollness is out-weighing your usefullness and im tired of seeing the same posts over and over from those that havent read a DAM thing and say they have read it all.
The jury is still out for me, i still think something is goin on within the serpo ordeal, but alot less real, if any, than i originally thought.
Good post. See rdubes post above^^^
As always this is just my opinion.
Thank you Springer. If you want I will send you the e-mail. Of course I am not the only member of ATS who received it.
Victor's version begins here:
MODERATOR's NOTE [Victor Martinez]: IMPORTANT, supplementary background
material -- NOT made known to my colleague and co-moderator, Bill Ryan
-- has been inserted in brackets [ ] between the 2nd and the 3rd to the
LAST PARAGRAPHS in Part 2 "Journal Entries: After 18 Months on Planet
SERPO – Our Team Members Report."
Scroll down NOW!
I've also inserted, in brackets, supplementary material in Part 2 to
assist the reader with context and background information. As is my
custom, all grammatical errors have been cleaned up for greater
readability. Enjoy! –
------------------------------------------
"Project SERPO": New posting from ANONYMOUS
Dear All:
I post this new information without comment apart from pointing out that
the first piece is the day after the team landed, while the second
(which follows next) is 18 months into their mission. All typos are
UNcorrected.
Best wishes,
BILL RYAN, SERPO.org Web site Administrator
------------------------------------------
Part 1:
– THE FIRST FULL DAY AFTER LANDING ON SERPO FOR OUR TEAM MEMBERS –
We had a serious problem. How do we explain our science to an alien
entity, who doesn't know Einstein, Kepler or any of the other scientists
of our time? Simple mathematics, seems so foreign to them.
Ebe #2 is the smart one. She seems to understand our language more than
#1 and #2. She even seems to understand our basic math. We started
with the basic math: 2 + 2, then progressed on. She understood and even
caught on so quickly that she continued on without our help. We realized
she has a great IQ when she repeated 1,000 x 1,000 and came up with an
answer.
We showed her our slide rule. It took her a couple of minutes to figure
it out, although I don't think she fully understood all the symbols on
the slide rule. She is really something. We found a personality in her.
Maybe because we have more contact with her than the others. She is very
warm hearted, one can just sense that in her. She really cares about us
and she even worries about us.
During our first night, she seemed to make sure everything was just
right for us. She warned us of the heat and the light. She mentioned
that SERPO does not get dark, like Earth. I wonder how she knew that?
Has she visited Earth? Maybe she is just educated on Earth's properties.
Maybe they have books about Earth.
Anyways, on the first night, she told us about the winds,... what winds!
Gusty winds start just when the one (1) sun sets. The other sun does
not but stays in the lower horizon. The winds blow dust, free dust into
our huts. We had a very difficult first night. We call it "night" but it
seems that the Ebens just call it a period of their day. Ebe #3 knew the
word "day" but didn't compare it to Earth's day. Maybe she hasn't been
to Earth. We didn't sleep well during our night. The Ebens don't sleep
like we do. They seem to rest for periods of time and then awake and go
about their business, whatever that might be.
When we awoke, Ebe #2 was there, outside our hut. I opened the door and
she was waiting. Why? How did she know we were awake? Maybe the
huts are being monitored by some sensor. Ebe #2 told us to follow her to
the eating place. She didn't use the words "dining hall" or "chow hall"
or "facility." She used the word "place."
Once I gathered the Team, we walked across the village; I'll call it a
"village" for the sake of wording. We entered a large building. It
seemed to be large, based on the small stature of the Ebens. There was
food on tables. I guess we'd call this place a "chow hall." Ebens looked
at us but carried on eating. Do they not cook inside their huts?
Maybe everyone eats here. We walked to the food tables. Same food we
saw and ate on the spaceship except some items were different.
They had large bowls of something like fruits; strange looking things.
They also had something like cottage cheese; it tasted like sour milk
but after the initial taste, [it was] all right. I encouraged each
Team Member to eat and drink. We might as well get used to the food.
But 700 tells us to eat just one of their meals a day and stick to our
C-rations for the other meals. That way, our system will adjust to the
Eben food.
We sat at a table, small compared to our standards, and ate. The Ebens,
numbering probably about 100, just ate and didn't really bother us.
Every now and then, we would catch Ebens staring at us. But we were
the freaks, not them. We are the visitors. WE are the "aliens." We
must really look strange to them. We all look different, they all look
the same. How can they compare us to them? They can't. We stare at them,
they stare at us.
We then see a different looking Eben. Very strange looking creature,
large, long arms, almost floats along with long legs. Can't be an Eben.
We all stare. This creature just floats by us and didn't even look at
us. I find Ebe #2. She is eating with three (3) others. Once I approach
her, she stands and almost bows her head towards me. Maybe just a
greeting,... have to remember that.
I ask her about the creature we saw; I ask if that was some other type
of Eben. Ebe #2 seems confused. She asked me what creature. I used the
word "creature." Maybe that was an insult or maybe she didn't know the
word. I pointed to the thing at the other end of the building. She
then saw what I meant.
Ebe #2 said, "No Eben, just visitor. Like you," pointing to me.
OK, I see, they have other alien visitors here. I guess we are not the
only ones. I then asked Ebe #2 what planet did that visitor come from?
Ebe #2 said, something like "CORTA," not sure of the exact word although
I asked her to repeat it twice. OK, where is "CORTA?"
She walks me to a "television," at least it looks like one. It is
positioned in the corner of the building. It is set up like some type of
command station. She places her finger on the glass and something
appears. The universe? Star systems; I don't recognize any of them. She
points to a spot and says "CORTA." OK, where is Earth? She points to
another spot and says "Earth."
Based on this television-glass space map, CORTA and Earth are very
close, but I don't know the scale of this map. Maybe they are a trillion
miles apart or maybe 10 light years. But they seem close. I'll have to
have one of the scientists look at this and see. OK, I thank Ebe #2. She
seems pleased. She almost looks like an angel. She seems so very nice.
She touched my hand and pointed to my table and said, "Eat. Good eat?"
I laughed and said, "Yes, good chow hall food."
She looked puzzled. I guess she doesn't know what a "chow hall" is. I
pointed to the building and said, "chow hall, Earth eating place." She
repeated what I said, "chow hall, Earth eating place." I laughed and
walked away. Now she will think all Earth restaurants are called "chow
halls."
We returned to our huts. We must get better organized. We have a
meeting. Everyone seems OK. We wonder about latrines, Where do we
relieve ourselves? Ebe #1 comes by, almost as if he was reading our
minds; maybe they can even do that. He tells shows us [a] pot in [a]
hut. We all wondered what that was. OK, that is our latrine. Realized
that won't work very well, but we'll do what we can. Then we realize the
pot has some sort of chemical inside. Our wastes are dissolved or
something like that. Can't really tell.
Each of the four (4) huts have one. That will work for the time being.
Ebe #2 tells us to walk on ground. Not sure what he means by that, but
420 says that might we to just walk around. OK, that we will do. I
organize the teams. 102 will remain with 225. I want 633 and 661 to look
at the television glass map and see if they can tell which star system
CORTA is. I ask 518 to take temperature readings and general weather
observations. I know it is hot. Very hot. Must be over 140 degrees. 754
warns us to keep covered from sun radiation. 754 says radiation levels
are high. Doesn't sound very good to me.
This reminds me of Nevada, 1956, during one of the atomic bomb testings.
We had hot weather and we had to worry about the radiation from the
atomic blasts. Now we are on a strange planet 40 light years from Earth
and we have radiation and heat. But we have to explore that is why we
were sent.
We starting walking around; 475 will take photographs with our military
cameras. I hope the film is [not] affected by the radiation. How do we
develop it? Maybe we didn't think of everything. I team up with 225. We
walk to a large open door building. We walk in and it looks like a
classroom, but no Ebens are here. There is a large television tube, it
takes up the entire wall. There are some lights flashing on this
television tube. We examine the tube. It is very thin. I wonder how it
works. Where are the tubes or the electronics? But maybe they are more
advanced in this area than us. They must be.
We don't find much else in this building. We move on. Wow! It is so very
hot. I hope l get used to it. We find a large tower. Looks like an
antenna tower, but it has a large mirror. We saw this when we first
arrived yesterday. We find an Eben standing near the door, but he
moves to one side. We ask him if he understands English. He just stares
at us but seems friendly. I guess he doesn't speak English. We move on
into the building, Can't find any stairs. But we see some type of round
glass room. Maybe it is an elevator.
Then we hear English. We turn around and find Ebe #2 standing there.
Where did she come from? I [asked] her if we may explore this building.
She said "Yes, of course" She points to the glass room and says go
up. OK, we enter the glass room. The glass door closes and go up real
fast. In no time we are at the top. But what is this? We ask Ebe #2,
"What is this?" She points to the sun and then points to the top of the
room, where the mirror is located. She then points to the ground.
OK, we see it. The tower is in the middle of a circle. The circle is
situated on the ground. In each quadrant of the circle is a symbol. I
see that the sun is directed through the mirror maybe this isn't a
mirror as we know it since the sunlight travels through it, but once the
sunlight travels through it, the light is directed on a symbol within
the circle. Ebe #2 says that when light contacts [the] symbol then
Ebens make [a] change. Not sure what that means. Maybe she means it
tells the Ebens what to do.
225 seems to think it is a sun dial. When the sun strikes a symbol, the
Ebens change what they are doing and do something else. Maybe the Eben
day is structured. Or maybe this is their clock. Strange. But we are on
an alien planet. I'm glad I still have my sense of humor.
This is only our first day, first day of school. We have a lot to learn.
We have to keep an open mind. We can't keep comparing things to Earth.
We have to open our minds to new ideas and new science. All these things
are foreign to us, but we must learn. I pointed to my wristwatch and
then pointed to the ground and in a gesture to show Ebe #2 that the two
items are time pieces. Not sure if she understood. But I said "time" and
she then understood. "Yes," she said, "Eben time," pointing to the
ground.
I pointed again to the wristwatch and said, "Earth time." Ebe #2 then
almost smiled and said, "No, no Earth time on SERPO." OK, that makes
sense. 225 said, she just told us that Earth time doesn't work on SERPO.
Yes, I guess she did. What good are our watches or time devices here?
They don't work. We have to start using Eben time. But we must also
maintain our time because we must know when to leave. Ten (10) years
seem like a million. Maybe based on Eben time that it might just be a
million years. Lets hope not. No time to think about home, we have a
mission and duties to perform. We are a military team and we must
maintain that idea. 225 and myself go back into the glass bowl and go
down to the ground.
We walk onto another building, large again. Inside we find rolls and
rolls of plants. This must be some sort of greenhouse; they are growing
food. Many Ebens are inside. They look at us with some glares. But we
just walk in and [walk] around. One Eben comes up to us and speaks but
in Eben. He seems to be telling us something. He points to the ceiling
and then to our heads. Maybe he is telling us to cover our heads.
We must find Ebe #2. We go back outside and then find Ebe #2, she always
seems to be near. Now we understand why: She is monitoring us by the
devices we are wearing on our belts. I ask Ebe #2 what is that building.
She says [it's a] food-making place. OK, maybe we contaminated the
place. We told her that another Eben spoke to us and then pointed to our
heads. Ebe #2 seemed confused and walked back into the building with
us. The same Eben exchanged words with Ebe #2. Ebe #2 then told us
that we must wear a cover on our heads in order to enter. Why? But we
don't argue.
This other Eben produces some sort of cloth hat and we wear it. We walk
about and the Eben seemed happy. We look at their plants. They are
growing food in soil. They have a watering system. They also have some
sort of transparent cloth over each plant. I point to the watering
system and ask Ebe #2, if that is water, drinking water. Ebe #2 said
"Yes." Then she senses we are thirsty. Ebe #2 leads us to a place near
another entrance and offers us water, at least we think it is water.
Tastes like chemicals but it is water. Actually [it] tastes good.
------------------------------------------
Part 2:
JOURNAL ENTRIES: AFTER 18 MONTHS ON PLANET SERPO – OUR TEAM MEMBERS
REPORT
The leader of the Ebens is a larger creature than the others. He seems
to be more aggressive than the other Ebens. When I write "aggressive," I
don't mean in a hostile way. He seems to be the boss, similar to me, as
the Team Commander.
His voice, although after all this time, I still can't understand any
words, is harsh and with a tone that is different from the rest. 203
claims the leader has an attitude. I agree. He is extremely friendly
towards us and has accommodated all of our requests. The leader has
requested many things from us most of which we have provided. One
strange thing is our blood. He wanted all of us to supply a blood
samples.
Ebe #2 explained that the blood, or health fluid as Ebe #2 explained it,
was necessary for them to supply any medicine to us if we should ever
need it. 700 and 754 feels that a blood sample might just be used for
other [sinister, e.g., cloning] purposes. We have allowed the Ebens to
utilize 308's body for experiments. They took all 308's blood which was
without my approval. I wrote about that in Log #3888. We had a very
tense situation with the Ebens about that.
When we traveled to the building housing 308's body, we were confronted
by several Ebens. Ebe #1 showed up and I explained that we wanted the
body of 308. Ebe #1 told us the body was in storage and we could NOT
take it. We told Ebe #1 that we WILL take it. The 11 (eleven) of us
walked by the Ebens, numbering six (6) and walked into the building.
They did not attempt to stop us. While inside, we could not open any of
the containers.
There was some type of system, maybe crypto style, that was being used
to lock the containers. We did find the container housing 308's body. We
decided to send 899 to our storage area and get some explosives to open
the container. Ebe #2 showed up with the leader. Ebe #2 was extremely
polite and asked us to wait. She used the word "please" several times.
In fact, she actually used the English word "beg." We backed off and I
told Ebe #2 that we wanted our friend's body and we wanted to examine
it. Ebe #2 translated that to the leader. There was a long exchange of
words between the two (2).
Finally, Ebe# 2, who seemed very frustrated told us that the leader
would like us to go to another location and speak with another Eben, a
doctor, about the body of 308. Ebe #2 explained that everything [we]
wanted to know about 308's body would be explained to us by the Eben
doctor, who Ebe #2 said spoke English. I told Ebe #2 that I would leave
899 and 754 here to guard the body and I would take the others to the
location containing the doctor. Ebe #2 translated that to the leader.
Again, there was a long, drawn out exchange of words between the two. It
lasted for several minutes. Finally, Ebe2 stated that the leader would
like all of us to leave this building and go to visit with the doctor. I
told Ebe #2, "No," I would not leave the body of 308 alone. I felt that
this was going to be a confrontation. I told 518 and 420 to go back,
obtain our handguns and come back ASAP. I was not going to allow the
Ebens to countermand my decisions. When Ebe #2 heard this, she told me
to wait and placed her hand against my chest. I told her to translate
that to the leader.
Again, there were several minutes of word exchanges between the two. Ebe
#2 then stated that the leader would bring the doctor here to discuss
the situation with us. Ebe #2 asked me to please don't send your men for
guns. Guns are not needed, we can settle this without guns. Please
don't. I told Ebe #2 that we would not get the guns but we would not
leave until we saw 308's body. The leader did something with the
communication device on his belt. About 20 minutes later, three (3)
Ebens showed up inside this building.
One of the Ebens, who identified himself as a doctor, spoke very good
English. This doctor had a strange sounding voice, almost like a human's
voice. This doctor did not have a high-pitched accent, like Ebe #1 and
Ebe #2. I was very impressed with this doctor. I just wonder where he
has been for these past 18 months. We have never seen him before. This
doctor told us that 308's body was not inside the container.
The Ebens have done experiments with 308's body because they considered
it an honor to have such a specimen to work with. The doctor told us
they have used 308's body to create a type of cloned human being. I
stopped the doctor at this point. I told the doctor that the body of my
Teammate was the property of the United States of America, planet Earth.
The body did NOT belong to the Ebens. I did NOT authorized any
experiments on the body of 308. I explained that humans consider a body
to be religious. Only I could have authorized the use of 308's body for
experiments. I demanded to see the body.
This doctor explained the body was gone. This doctor said all the blood,
body organs were taken out and used to clone other beings. The use of
the word "beings" really scared me and the others. 899 became extremely
angry. He called the doctor curse names. I ordered 899 to be quiet. I
then told 203 to take 899 out of the building. I realized this matter
could really blossom into a major incident.
I could not allow that to happen. There were just 11 (eleven) of us and
we realized that if the Ebens wanted to imprison us or kill [all of] us,
they could do so very easily. But I didn't think the Ebens would resort
to such behavior. I was not going to allow this incident to advance into
something worse. I realized there wasn't much we could do about what the
Ebens have done with 308's body.
Ebe #2 looked very upset. Ebe #2 told me that everyone should be nice,
she repeated the word "nice" many times. Ebe #2 did not want this matter
to escalate. I kind of felt sorry for Ebe #2. She was trying to mediate
the matter. 203 suggested we return to our living quarters and have a
Team meeting.
I told the leader that I did not want any further interference between
whatever is left of 308's body and experiments. I pointed my finger
towards the leader's face. Ebe #2 translated, along with the doctor. The
doctor, who was extremely straightforward, told me that nothing further
would happen with the body, but advised me very little was left of the
body.
Ebe #2 then told me the leader was concerned that we were upset because
we were their guests and that we were offended. The leader did not wish
to upset us and promised that nothing further would happen to the body.
I thanked Ebe #2 and had her relay that to the leader.
We returned to out huts. Everyone was upset, especially 899. I told each
Member to calm down. I explained our situation, as if each Team Member
didn't already realize it, that we were only 11 (eleven) military
personnel. We had no way of fighting the Ebens. We did not come 40 light
years to start a war with the Ebens, a war we could not win. We could
not even win a simple fist fight with the Ebens.
Yes, maybe we could beat them up but what then? We have to realize our
situation and act accordingly. I ordered each Member to reconsider the
situation and to except the facts about 308's body. I told 633 and 700
to investigate this cloning procedure with the English-speaking Eben
doctor. Lets get all the facts about WHAT they did with the body and
what we can find out about the body and the Eben's experiments with the
body.
Ebe #2 came to the hut. I told Ebe #2 that 633 and 700 were going to
examine what was left of 308's body. They would also conduct research
into the Eben's experiments done on 308s body. Ebe #2 looked very
concerned. It is sometimes difficult for us, even after the time we
have been on this planet, to determine the meaning of facial expressions
on an Eben's face. Ebe #2 replied that she must first obtain approval.
"Approval" was a new word for Ebe #2. She was must be reading or
learning our language or maybe she is just picking up our words.
I told Ebe #2 that she can go get permission, but that we were told when
we arrived that we did not have any restrictions on where we went. Ebe
#2 said she would speak with the leader. 633 and 700 gathered test
equipment and prepared themselves for the examination of the Eben
laboratory. According to our time devices, Ebe #2 came back about 80
minutes later. Ebe #2 said it was all right for my men to visit their
laboratory. I decided that I would also visit it.
Myself, 633 and 700 were escorted by Ebe #2 to the laboratory facility.
We had to be taken by the helitransport device, as we call their
helicopters. It took us sometime before arriving at this location.
According to our compass readings -- which are not really a compass
reading but we made points of references -- we traveled north.
The facility was large, by Eben standards. The building looked like a
large single story windowless school. We landed on the roof, or maybe
just a landing zone on the roof. We were escorted down a walkway or
ramp. They don't have ladders on this planet. I think I wrote about this
in one of my past entries. They have ramps. We arrived in a room. White
walls. We then walked through a hallway into another larger room. We met
our English-speaking doctor.
We saw many other Ebens, all dressed in a bluish-colored, one-piece suit
which was different from their ordinary suits I spoke of in past
entries. The doctor told us that all of the experiments done inside
this building -- he didn't call it a "laboratory," just a building -- is
done to create cloned beings. We were lead into another room, where
there were rolls of containers, looking like glass bathtubs.
Inside each bathtub were bodies. I was shocked, as were 700 and 754.
Bodies. Strange-looking bodies. Not human bodies, at least not all of
them. We started walking down the space between the tubs. We looked into
the tubs. These were hideous looking creatures. I asked the doctor what
type of creatures were inside these tubs. The doctor told us that these
creatures came from other planets.
700 asked the doctor if these creatures dead when they arrived; or did
the Ebens bring them here dead. The doctor said all the creatures were
brought to the planet alive. 700 asked if the creatures were kidnapped
or brought here against their wishes [will]. The doctor was not sure of
the word "kidnapped." The doctor seemed puzzled. The doctor asked about
the question. 700 said that these creatures were taken from another
planet and brought to SERPO without permission from them or their
leaders of their planet.
The doctor said that these beings were brought here for experiments.
These creatures are not [considered] "intelligent beings" [with
sentience and a spirit/soul].
Ebe #2 then used the word "animals." OK, now I understand. All these
creatures are animals from other planets. The doctor didn't seem to
understand the word "animal." Ebe #2 and the doctor exchanged words in
Eben and the doctor then said, "Yes, they are animals."
I then asked if there were any intelligent (sentient] creatures in this
building. The doctor said, "Yes," but that all of them were dead when
they arrived on SERPO. 700 asked to see these creatures. The doctor
corrected 700 by saying "beings." OK, I guess "creatures" are animals
and "beings" are like humans. Let me first write down the description of
these creatures inside these tubs. They are not all alike.
– The first creature I see inside the tub looks like a porcupine. It
appears to have a tube placed inside of it. The tube leads to a box
underneath the tub.
– The second creature I see looks like a monster. It has a large head,
big deep-set eyes, no ears, a mouth, but no teeth. It is about five
(5) feet long and has two (2) lower legs but no feet. It has two arms
but it doesn't appear to have any elbows. It has hands but no fingers.
This creature also has a tube going through it.
– The next creature looked like nothing I can compare it to. It had
blood-red skin, two spots in the middle and maybe eyes; no arms or legs.
It had a very strange odor. The skin appeared to be blotchy with scales,
much like a fish; maybe it is a fish.
– The next creature was human like. But the skin was white, not skin
white, the color white. The skin was wrinkled. The head was large, with
two eyes, two ears and a mouth. The neck was very small. The head almost
looked as if it sat on the lower torso. The chest was thin, with large
bone like protrusions. The arms were curled, with hands, but no thumbs.
The legs were also curled with feet but only three (3) toes.
I couldn't [stand to] look at anymore creatures. We walked down another
hallway, through a room, down a ramp, [and] into another room. We came
into a room that looked like a hospital room. There were many beds, or
at least some type of bed, and Eben-style bed. I [had] described them
before. In each bed was a "living being," as the doctor called it. The
doctor told us that each being was alive and well cared for.
700 asked the doctor if these beings were ill or sick. Ebe #2 had to
translate that, but the doctor said, no, they are being "lived" [kept
alive and grown like a plant]. The three (3) of us seemed really stunned
by that word "lived." I asked Ebe #2 what the doctor meant. Ebe #2
exchanged words with the doctor. Ebe #2 then used the word "grown." 700
asked the doctor if these were the cloned beings that he mentioned
before.
The doctor said "Yes," that each being was being grown, using the same
word as Ebe #2 just used. 754 asked the doctor if these beings were
being grown like a plant. The doctor said "Yes," that is a good
comparison. 700 asked the doctor how are they grown. The doctor said
that certain parts of other beings were used to grow these beings. The
doctor said he could not explain the process in English because he
didn't know the words.
700 then asked Ebe #2 if she could explain the growing process. Ebe #2
said she did not know the English words. Ebe #2 said that parts of the
blood and other organs are used to mix a substance that is placed inside
the bodies of these beings. That was all Ebe #2 could explain in
English. I told 700 to go back and get 420 and bring them back.
While we waited for 420, we looked at these beings. They were breathing
and they LOOKED LIKE HUMANS, most of them. Two (2) of the beings on the
end LOOKED LIKE HUMANS WITH DOG HEADS.
These beings were not awake. They were either sleeping or drugged. 420
returned. I told 420 to see if he could translate the method used to
grow these beings. 420 then spoke with Ebe #2. 420 is really good.
However long we have been here -- some guess about 18 months Earth time
-- 420 [had] learned the [Eben] language well. 420 then said that the
growing process involved cells taken from other beings, grown and mixed
with chemicals and then inserted into the bodies of other beings. That
was about all 420 could explain. 420 did not know the words Ebe #2 used.
But the word "cells" were used. Ebe #2 then told me that some things
were taken from inside the cells. 700 and 754 then asked if the item
take from inside the cells were cell membranes or identification markers
for the cells. Ebe #2 translated that to the doctor. Both seemed
confused and said they could not explain the process because they did
not know the English words for it. 700 used the word [phrase] "advanced
biological extraction of the cell membranes."
[ RAPID CYCLE CLONING ]
But neither Ebe #2 nor the doctor knew anything about that process. I
asked 754 if he might understand what they were doing. 754 said that
human cells contain smaller substance that can identify the structure
with the membranes of the cell. This isn't something that Earth
technology has advanced, but 754 had read about it prior to leaving.
But 754 doesn't think that Earth technology can be used to grow
living cells into what the Ebens have done. The Ebens must have found a
way to grow cells and to make them into living beings. 700 and 754 said
nothing like his is known on Earth.
I then asked the doctor if 308's body was used to create a being. The
doctor said yes, and showed us the being. I was shocked, as was 700 and
754. This being, with our Teammate's blood and cells, looked like a
large Eben. But the hands and legs were similar to humans. How could
they have grown this being so quickly?
[ SPECIAL NOTE FROM VICTOR MARTINEZ: The dead Team Member's body #308
was cloned with a creature called an "Archquloid"
"A-R-C-H-Q-U-L-O-I-D"
which originates from another star system and is one of 200+
civilizations that the Ebens regularly interface with on either
exploratory and/or trading routes/missions.
This information was NOT made known to co-moderator Bill Ryan, but was
revealed to me in an "Eyes Only" e-mail on Thursday, December 8, 2005 @
8:17 p.m., which I've never released, though I am now considering doing
so. If "my" ANONYMOUS asks me to NOT reveal/release his private e-mail
to me, I WILL respect his wishes and "kill" it.
STAY TUNED! ]
Obviously, this is well above our intelligence [beyond our capability].
I saw all I wanted to see. I told the doctor that we would like to
leave. Ebe #2 saw that I was upset and touched my hand. Instantly, I
felt concern. Ebe #2 was really concerned about what I saw. Ebe #2
said we [had to] leave. We traveled outside this building, a building
that I did not wish to see again. I saw the dark side of this
civilization. The Ebens are NOT the humane civilization we thought they
were.
But I must say they didn't hide anything. The doctor spoke straight to
us, just like [all of] the [other] Ebens. They don't know how to lie.
Seeing what we saw will change our impression of the Ebens as long as we
stay on this planet.
– END POSTING #13
Victor's version begins here:
MODERATOR's NOTE [Victor Martinez]: IMPORTANT, supplementary background
material -- NOT made known to my colleague and co-moderator, Bill Ryan
-- has been inserted in brackets [ ] between the 2nd and the 3rd to the
LAST PARAGRAPHS in Part 2 "Journal Entries: After 18 Months on Planet
SERPO – Our Team Members Report."
Scroll down NOW!
I've also inserted, in brackets, supplementary material in Part 2 to
assist the reader with context and background information. As is my
custom, all grammatical errors have been cleaned up for greater
readability. Enjoy! –
------------------------------------------
"Project SERPO": New posting from ANONYMOUS
Dear All:
I post this new information without comment apart from pointing out that
the first piece is the day after the team landed, while the second
(which follows next) is 18 months into their mission. All typos are
UNcorrected.
Best wishes,
BILL RYAN, SERPO.org Web site Administrator
------------------------------------------
Part 1:
– THE FIRST FULL DAY AFTER LANDING ON SERPO FOR OUR TEAM MEMBERS –
We had a serious problem. How do we explain our science to an alien
entity, who doesn't know Einstein, Kepler or any of the other scientists
of our time? Simple mathematics, seems so foreign to them.
Ebe #2 is the smart one. She seems to understand our language more than
#1 and #2. She even seems to understand our basic math. We started
with the basic math: 2 + 2, then progressed on. She understood and even
caught on so quickly that she continued on without our help. We realized
she has a great IQ when she repeated 1,000 x 1,000 and came up with an
answer.
We showed her our slide rule. It took her a couple of minutes to figure
it out, although I don't think she fully understood all the symbols on
the slide rule. She is really something. We found a personality in her.
Maybe because we have more contact with her than the others. She is very
warm hearted, one can just sense that in her. She really cares about us
and she even worries about us.
During our first night, she seemed to make sure everything was just
right for us. She warned us of the heat and the light. She mentioned
that SERPO does not get dark, like Earth. I wonder how she knew that?
Has she visited Earth? Maybe she is just educated on Earth's properties.
Maybe they have books about Earth.
Anyways, on the first night, she told us about the winds,... what winds!
Gusty winds start just when the one (1) sun sets. The other sun does
not but stays in the lower horizon. The winds blow dust, free dust into
our huts. We had a very difficult first night. We call it "night" but it
seems that the Ebens just call it a period of their day. Ebe #3 knew the
word "day" but didn't compare it to Earth's day. Maybe she hasn't been
to Earth. We didn't sleep well during our night. The Ebens don't sleep
like we do. They seem to rest for periods of time and then awake and go
about their business, whatever that might be.
When we awoke, Ebe #2 was there, outside our hut. I opened the door and
she was waiting. Why? How did she know we were awake? Maybe the
huts are being monitored by some sensor. Ebe #2 told us to follow her to
the eating place. She didn't use the words "dining hall" or "chow hall"
or "facility." She used the word "place."
Once I gathered the Team, we walked across the village; I'll call it a
"village" for the sake of wording. We entered a large building. It
seemed to be large, based on the small stature of the Ebens. There was
food on tables. I guess we'd call this place a "chow hall." Ebens looked
at us but carried on eating. Do they not cook inside their huts?
Maybe everyone eats here. We walked to the food tables. Same food we
saw and ate on the spaceship except some items were different.
They had large bowls of something like fruits; strange looking things.
They also had something like cottage cheese; it tasted like sour milk
but after the initial taste, [it was] all right. I encouraged each
Team Member to eat and drink. We might as well get used to the food.
But 700 tells us to eat just one of their meals a day and stick to our
C-rations for the other meals. That way, our system will adjust to the
Eben food.
We sat at a table, small compared to our standards, and ate. The Ebens,
numbering probably about 100, just ate and didn't really bother us.
Every now and then, we would catch Ebens staring at us. But we were
the freaks, not them. We are the visitors. WE are the "aliens." We
must really look strange to them. We all look different, they all look
the same. How can they compare us to them? They can't. We stare at them,
they stare at us.
We then see a different looking Eben. Very strange looking creature,
large, long arms, almost floats along with long legs. Can't be an Eben.
We all stare. This creature just floats by us and didn't even look at
us. I find Ebe #2. She is eating with three (3) others. Once I approach
her, she stands and almost bows her head towards me. Maybe just a
greeting,... have to remember that.
I ask her about the creature we saw; I ask if that was some other type
of Eben. Ebe #2 seems confused. She asked me what creature. I used the
word "creature." Maybe that was an insult or maybe she didn't know the
word. I pointed to the thing at the other end of the building. She
then saw what I meant.
Ebe #2 said, "No Eben, just visitor. Like you," pointing to me.
OK, I see, they have other alien visitors here. I guess we are not the
only ones. I then asked Ebe #2 what planet did that visitor come from?
Ebe #2 said, something like "CORTA," not sure of the exact word although
I asked her to repeat it twice. OK, where is "CORTA?"
She walks me to a "television," at least it looks like one. It is
positioned in the corner of the building. It is set up like some type of
command station. She places her finger on the glass and something
appears. The universe? Star systems; I don't recognize any of them. She
points to a spot and says "CORTA." OK, where is Earth? She points to
another spot and says "Earth."
Based on this television-glass space map, CORTA and Earth are very
close, but I don't know the scale of this map. Maybe they are a trillion
miles apart or maybe 10 light years. But they seem close. I'll have to
have one of the scientists look at this and see. OK, I thank Ebe #2. She
seems pleased. She almost looks like an angel. She seems so very nice.
She touched my hand and pointed to my table and said, "Eat. Good eat?"
I laughed and said, "Yes, good chow hall food."
She looked puzzled. I guess she doesn't know what a "chow hall" is. I
pointed to the building and said, "chow hall, Earth eating place." She
repeated what I said, "chow hall, Earth eating place." I laughed and
walked away. Now she will think all Earth restaurants are called "chow
halls."
We returned to our huts. We must get better organized. We have a
meeting. Everyone seems OK. We wonder about latrines, Where do we
relieve ourselves? Ebe #1 comes by, almost as if he was reading our
minds; maybe they can even do that. He tells shows us [a] pot in [a]
hut. We all wondered what that was. OK, that is our latrine. Realized
that won't work very well, but we'll do what we can. Then we realize the
pot has some sort of chemical inside. Our wastes are dissolved or
something like that. Can't really tell.
Each of the four (4) huts have one. That will work for the time being.
Ebe #2 tells us to walk on ground. Not sure what he means by that, but
420 says that might we to just walk around. OK, that we will do. I
organize the teams. 102 will remain with 225. I want 633 and 661 to look
at the television glass map and see if they can tell which star system
CORTA is. I ask 518 to take temperature readings and general weather
observations. I know it is hot. Very hot. Must be over 140 degrees. 754
warns us to keep covered from sun radiation. 754 says radiation levels
are high. Doesn't sound very good to me.
This reminds me of Nevada, 1956, during one of the atomic bomb testings.
We had hot weather and we had to worry about the radiation from the
atomic blasts. Now we are on a strange planet 40 light years from Earth
and we have radiation and heat. But we have to explore that is why we
were sent.
We starting walking around; 475 will take photographs with our military
cameras. I hope the film is [not] affected by the radiation. How do we
develop it? Maybe we didn't think of everything. I team up with 225. We
walk to a large open door building. We walk in and it looks like a
classroom, but no Ebens are here. There is a large television tube, it
takes up the entire wall. There are some lights flashing on this
television tube. We examine the tube. It is very thin. I wonder how it
works. Where are the tubes or the electronics? But maybe they are more
advanced in this area than us. They must be.
We don't find much else in this building. We move on. Wow! It is so very
hot. I hope l get used to it. We find a large tower. Looks like an
antenna tower, but it has a large mirror. We saw this when we first
arrived yesterday. We find an Eben standing near the door, but he
moves to one side. We ask him if he understands English. He just stares
at us but seems friendly. I guess he doesn't speak English. We move on
into the building, Can't find any stairs. But we see some type of round
glass room. Maybe it is an elevator.
Then we hear English. We turn around and find Ebe #2 standing there.
Where did she come from? I [asked] her if we may explore this building.
She said "Yes, of course" She points to the glass room and says go
up. OK, we enter the glass room. The glass door closes and go up real
fast. In no time we are at the top. But what is this? We ask Ebe #2,
"What is this?" She points to the sun and then points to the top of the
room, where the mirror is located. She then points to the ground.
OK, we see it. The tower is in the middle of a circle. The circle is
situated on the ground. In each quadrant of the circle is a symbol. I
see that the sun is directed through the mirror maybe this isn't a
mirror as we know it since the sunlight travels through it, but once the
sunlight travels through it, the light is directed on a symbol within
the circle. Ebe #2 says that when light contacts [the] symbol then
Ebens make [a] change. Not sure what that means. Maybe she means it
tells the Ebens what to do.
225 seems to think it is a sun dial. When the sun strikes a symbol, the
Ebens change what they are doing and do something else. Maybe the Eben
day is structured. Or maybe this is their clock. Strange. But we are on
an alien planet. I'm glad I still have my sense of humor.
This is only our first day, first day of school. We have a lot to learn.
We have to keep an open mind. We can't keep comparing things to Earth.
We have to open our minds to new ideas and new science. All these things
are foreign to us, but we must learn. I pointed to my wristwatch and
then pointed to the ground and in a gesture to show Ebe #2 that the two
items are time pieces. Not sure if she understood. But I said "time" and
she then understood. "Yes," she said, "Eben time," pointing to the
ground.
I pointed again to the wristwatch and said, "Earth time." Ebe #2 then
almost smiled and said, "No, no Earth time on SERPO." OK, that makes
sense. 225 said, she just told us that Earth time doesn't work on SERPO.
Yes, I guess she did. What good are our watches or time devices here?
They don't work. We have to start using Eben time. But we must also
maintain our time because we must know when to leave. Ten (10) years
seem like a million. Maybe based on Eben time that it might just be a
million years. Lets hope not. No time to think about home, we have a
mission and duties to perform. We are a military team and we must
maintain that idea. 225 and myself go back into the glass bowl and go
down to the ground.
We walk onto another building, large again. Inside we find rolls and
rolls of plants. This must be some sort of greenhouse; they are growing
food. Many Ebens are inside. They look at us with some glares. But we
just walk in and [walk] around. One Eben comes up to us and speaks but
in Eben. He seems to be telling us something. He points to the ceiling
and then to our heads. Maybe he is telling us to cover our heads.
We must find Ebe #2. We go back outside and then find Ebe #2, she always
seems to be near. Now we understand why: She is monitoring us by the
devices we are wearing on our belts. I ask Ebe #2 what is that building.
She says [it's a] food-making place. OK, maybe we contaminated the
place. We told her that another Eben spoke to us and then pointed to our
heads. Ebe #2 seemed confused and walked back into the building with
us. The same Eben exchanged words with Ebe #2. Ebe #2 then told us
that we must wear a cover on our heads in order to enter. Why? But we
don't argue.
This other Eben produces some sort of cloth hat and we wear it. We walk
about and the Eben seemed happy. We look at their plants. They are
growing food in soil. They have a watering system. They also have some
sort of transparent cloth over each plant. I point to the watering
system and ask Ebe #2, if that is water, drinking water. Ebe #2 said
"Yes." Then she senses we are thirsty. Ebe #2 leads us to a place near
another entrance and offers us water, at least we think it is water.
Tastes like chemicals but it is water. Actually [it] tastes good.
------------------------------------------
Part 2:
JOURNAL ENTRIES: AFTER 18 MONTHS ON PLANET SERPO – OUR TEAM MEMBERS
REPORT
The leader of the Ebens is a larger creature than the others. He seems
to be more aggressive than the other Ebens. When I write "aggressive," I
don't mean in a hostile way. He seems to be the boss, similar to me, as
the Team Commander.
His voice, although after all this time, I still can't understand any
words, is harsh and with a tone that is different from the rest. 203
claims the leader has an attitude. I agree. He is extremely friendly
towards us and has accommodated all of our requests. The leader has
requested many things from us most of which we have provided. One
strange thing is our blood. He wanted all of us to supply a blood
samples.
Ebe #2 explained that the blood, or health fluid as Ebe #2 explained it,
was necessary for them to supply any medicine to us if we should ever
need it. 700 and 754 feels that a blood sample might just be used for
other [sinister, e.g., cloning] purposes. We have allowed the Ebens to
utilize 308's body for experiments. They took all 308's blood which was
without my approval. I wrote about that in Log #3888. We had a very
tense situation with the Ebens about that.
When we traveled to the building housing 308's body, we were confronted
by several Ebens. Ebe #1 showed up and I explained that we wanted the
body of 308. Ebe #1 told us the body was in storage and we could NOT
take it. We told Ebe #1 that we WILL take it. The 11 (eleven) of us
walked by the Ebens, numbering six (6) and walked into the building.
They did not attempt to stop us. While inside, we could not open any of
the containers.
There was some type of system, maybe crypto style, that was being used
to lock the containers. We did find the container housing 308's body. We
decided to send 899 to our storage area and get some explosives to open
the container. Ebe #2 showed up with the leader. Ebe #2 was extremely
polite and asked us to wait. She used the word "please" several times.
In fact, she actually used the English word "beg." We backed off and I
told Ebe #2 that we wanted our friend's body and we wanted to examine
it. Ebe #2 translated that to the leader. There was a long exchange of
words between the two (2).
Finally, Ebe# 2, who seemed very frustrated told us that the leader
would like us to go to another location and speak with another Eben, a
doctor, about the body of 308. Ebe #2 explained that everything [we]
wanted to know about 308's body would be explained to us by the Eben
doctor, who Ebe #2 said spoke English. I told Ebe #2 that I would leave
899 and 754 here to guard the body and I would take the others to the
location containing the doctor. Ebe #2 translated that to the leader.
Again, there was a long, drawn out exchange of words between the two. It
lasted for several minutes. Finally, Ebe2 stated that the leader would
like all of us to leave this building and go to visit with the doctor. I
told Ebe #2, "No," I would not leave the body of 308 alone. I felt that
this was going to be a confrontation. I told 518 and 420 to go back,
obtain our handguns and come back ASAP. I was not going to allow the
Ebens to countermand my decisions. When Ebe #2 heard this, she told me
to wait and placed her hand against my chest. I told her to translate
that to the leader.
Again, there were several minutes of word exchanges between the two. Ebe
#2 then stated that the leader would bring the doctor here to discuss
the situation with us. Ebe #2 asked me to please don't send your men for
guns. Guns are not needed, we can settle this without guns. Please
don't. I told Ebe #2 that we would not get the guns but we would not
leave until we saw 308's body. The leader did something with the
communication device on his belt. About 20 minutes later, three (3)
Ebens showed up inside this building.
One of the Ebens, who identified himself as a doctor, spoke very good
English. This doctor had a strange sounding voice, almost like a human's
voice. This doctor did not have a high-pitched accent, like Ebe #1 and
Ebe #2. I was very impressed with this doctor. I just wonder where he
has been for these past 18 months. We have never seen him before. This
doctor told us that 308's body was not inside the container.
The Ebens have done experiments with 308's body because they considered
it an honor to have such a specimen to work with. The doctor told us
they have used 308's body to create a type of cloned human being. I
stopped the doctor at this point. I told the doctor that the body of my
Teammate was the property of the United States of America, planet Earth.
The body did NOT belong to the Ebens. I did NOT authorized any
experiments on the body of 308. I explained that humans consider a body
to be religious. Only I could have authorized the use of 308's body for
experiments. I demanded to see the body.
This doctor explained the body was gone. This doctor said all the blood,
body organs were taken out and used to clone other beings. The use of
the word "beings" really scared me and the others. 899 became extremely
angry. He called the doctor curse names. I ordered 899 to be quiet. I
then told 203 to take 899 out of the building. I realized this matter
could really blossom into a major incident.
I could not allow that to happen. There were just 11 (eleven) of us and
we realized that if the Ebens wanted to imprison us or kill [all of] us,
they could do so very easily. But I didn't think the Ebens would resort
to such behavior. I was not going to allow this incident to advance into
something worse. I realized there wasn't much we could do about what the
Ebens have done with 308's body.
Ebe #2 looked very upset. Ebe #2 told me that everyone should be nice,
she repeated the word "nice" many times. Ebe #2 did not want this matter
to escalate. I kind of felt sorry for Ebe #2. She was trying to mediate
the matter. 203 suggested we return to our living quarters and have a
Team meeting.
I told the leader that I did not want any further interference between
whatever is left of 308's body and experiments. I pointed my finger
towards the leader's face. Ebe #2 translated, along with the doctor. The
doctor, who was extremely straightforward, told me that nothing further
would happen with the body, but advised me very little was left of the
body.
Ebe #2 then told me the leader was concerned that we were upset because
we were their guests and that we were offended. The leader did not wish
to upset us and promised that nothing further would happen to the body.
I thanked Ebe #2 and had her relay that to the leader.
We returned to out huts. Everyone was upset, especially 899. I told each
Member to calm down. I explained our situation, as if each Team Member
didn't already realize it, that we were only 11 (eleven) military
personnel. We had no way of fighting the Ebens. We did not come 40 light
years to start a war with the Ebens, a war we could not win. We could
not even win a simple fist fight with the Ebens.
Yes, maybe we could beat them up but what then? We have to realize our
situation and act accordingly. I ordered each Member to reconsider the
situation and to except the facts about 308's body. I told 633 and 700
to investigate this cloning procedure with the English-speaking Eben
doctor. Lets get all the facts about WHAT they did with the body and
what we can find out about the body and the Eben's experiments with the
body.
Ebe #2 came to the hut. I told Ebe #2 that 633 and 700 were going to
examine what was left of 308's body. They would also conduct research
into the Eben's experiments done on 308s body. Ebe #2 looked very
concerned. It is sometimes difficult for us, even after the time we
have been on this planet, to determine the meaning of facial expressions
on an Eben's face. Ebe #2 replied that she must first obtain approval.
"Approval" was a new word for Ebe #2. She was must be reading or
learning our language or maybe she is just picking up our words.
I told Ebe #2 that she can go get permission, but that we were told when
we arrived that we did not have any restrictions on where we went. Ebe
#2 said she would speak with the leader. 633 and 700 gathered test
equipment and prepared themselves for the examination of the Eben
laboratory. According to our time devices, Ebe #2 came back about 80
minutes later. Ebe #2 said it was all right for my men to visit their
laboratory. I decided that I would also visit it.
Myself, 633 and 700 were escorted by Ebe #2 to the laboratory facility.
We had to be taken by the helitransport device, as we call their
helicopters. It took us sometime before arriving at this location.
According to our compass readings -- which are not really a compass
reading but we made points of references -- we traveled north.
The facility was large, by Eben standards. The building looked like a
large single story windowless school. We landed on the roof, or maybe
just a landing zone on the roof. We were escorted down a walkway or
ramp. They don't have ladders on this planet. I think I wrote about this
in one of my past entries. They have ramps. We arrived in a room. White
walls. We then walked through a hallway into another larger room. We met
our English-speaking doctor.
We saw many other Ebens, all dressed in a bluish-colored, one-piece suit
which was different from their ordinary suits I spoke of in past
entries. The doctor told us that all of the experiments done inside
this building -- he didn't call it a "laboratory," just a building -- is
done to create cloned beings. We were lead into another room, where
there were rolls of containers, looking like glass bathtubs.
Inside each bathtub were bodies. I was shocked, as were 700 and 754.
Bodies. Strange-looking bodies. Not human bodies, at least not all of
them. We started walking down the space between the tubs. We looked into
the tubs. These were hideous looking creatures. I asked the doctor what
type of creatures were inside these tubs. The doctor told us that these
creatures came from other planets.
700 asked the doctor if these creatures dead when they arrived; or did
the Ebens bring them here dead. The doctor said all the creatures were
brought to the planet alive. 700 asked if the creatures were kidnapped
or brought here against their wishes [will]. The doctor was not sure of
the word "kidnapped." The doctor seemed puzzled. The doctor asked about
the question. 700 said that these creatures were taken from another
planet and brought to SERPO without permission from them or their
leaders of their planet.
The doctor said that these beings were brought here for experiments.
These creatures are not [considered] "intelligent beings" [with
sentience and a spirit/soul].
Ebe #2 then used the word "animals." OK, now I understand. All these
creatures are animals from other planets. The doctor didn't seem to
understand the word "animal." Ebe #2 and the doctor exchanged words in
Eben and the doctor then said, "Yes, they are animals."
I then asked if there were any intelligent (sentient] creatures in this
building. The doctor said, "Yes," but that all of them were dead when
they arrived on SERPO. 700 asked to see these creatures. The doctor
corrected 700 by saying "beings." OK, I guess "creatures" are animals
and "beings" are like humans. Let me first write down the description of
these creatures inside these tubs. They are not all alike.
– The first creature I see inside the tub looks like a porcupine. It
appears to have a tube placed inside of it. The tube leads to a box
underneath the tub.
– The second creature I see looks like a monster. It has a large head,
big deep-set eyes, no ears, a mouth, but no teeth. It is about five
(5) feet long and has two (2) lower legs but no feet. It has two arms
but it doesn't appear to have any elbows. It has hands but no fingers.
This creature also has a tube going through it.
– The next creature looked like nothing I can compare it to. It had
blood-red skin, two spots in the middle and maybe eyes; no arms or legs.
It had a very strange odor. The skin appeared to be blotchy with scales,
much like a fish; maybe it is a fish.
– The next creature was human like. But the skin was white, not skin
white, the color white. The skin was wrinkled. The head was large, with
two eyes, two ears and a mouth. The neck was very small. The head almost
looked as if it sat on the lower torso. The chest was thin, with large
bone like protrusions. The arms were curled, with hands, but no thumbs.
The legs were also curled with feet but only three (3) toes.
I couldn't [stand to] look at anymore creatures. We walked down another
hallway, through a room, down a ramp, [and] into another room. We came
into a room that looked like a hospital room. There were many beds, or
at least some type of bed, and Eben-style bed. I [had] described them
before. In each bed was a "living being," as the doctor called it. The
doctor told us that each being was alive and well cared for.
700 asked the doctor if these beings were ill or sick. Ebe #2 had to
translate that, but the doctor said, no, they are being "lived" [kept
alive and grown like a plant]. The three (3) of us seemed really stunned
by that word "lived." I asked Ebe #2 what the doctor meant. Ebe #2
exchanged words with the doctor. Ebe #2 then used the word "grown." 700
asked the doctor if these were the cloned beings that he mentioned
before.
The doctor said "Yes," that each being was being grown, using the same
word as Ebe #2 just used. 754 asked the doctor if these beings were
being grown like a plant. The doctor said "Yes," that is a good
comparison. 700 asked the doctor how are they grown. The doctor said
that certain parts of other beings were used to grow these beings. The
doctor said he could not explain the process in English because he
didn't know the words.
700 then asked Ebe #2 if she could explain the growing process. Ebe #2
said she did not know the English words. Ebe #2 said that parts of the
blood and other organs are used to mix a substance that is placed inside
the bodies of these beings. That was all Ebe #2 could explain in
English. I told 700 to go back and get 420 and bring them back.
While we waited for 420, we looked at these beings. They were breathing
and they LOOKED LIKE HUMANS, most of them. Two (2) of the beings on the
end LOOKED LIKE HUMANS WITH DOG HEADS.
These beings were not awake. They were either sleeping or drugged. 420
returned. I told 420 to see if he could translate the method used to
grow these beings. 420 then spoke with Ebe #2. 420 is really good.
However long we have been here -- some guess about 18 months Earth time
-- 420 [had] learned the [Eben] language well. 420 then said that the
growing process involved cells taken from other beings, grown and mixed
with chemicals and then inserted into the bodies of other beings. That
was about all 420 could explain. 420 did not know the words Ebe #2 used.
But the word "cells" were used. Ebe #2 then told me that some things
were taken from inside the cells. 700 and 754 then asked if the item
take from inside the cells were cell membranes or identification markers
for the cells. Ebe #2 translated that to the doctor. Both seemed
confused and said they could not explain the process because they did
not know the English words for it. 700 used the word [phrase] "advanced
biological extraction of the cell membranes."
[ RAPID CYCLE CLONING ]
But neither Ebe #2 nor the doctor knew anything about that process. I
asked 754 if he might understand what they were doing. 754 said that
human cells contain smaller substance that can identify the structure
with the membranes of the cell. This isn't something that Earth
technology has advanced, but 754 had read about it prior to leaving.
But 754 doesn't think that Earth technology can be used to grow
living cells into what the Ebens have done. The Ebens must have found a
way to grow cells and to make them into living beings. 700 and 754 said
nothing like his is known on Earth.
I then asked the doctor if 308's body was used to create a being. The
doctor said yes, and showed us the being. I was shocked, as was 700 and
754. This being, with our Teammate's blood and cells, looked like a
large Eben. But the hands and legs were similar to humans. How could
they have grown this being so quickly?
[ SPECIAL NOTE FROM VICTOR MARTINEZ: The dead Team Member's body #308
was cloned with a creature called an "Archquloid"
"A-R-C-H-Q-U-L-O-I-D"
which originates from another star system and is one of 200+
civilizations that the Ebens regularly interface with on either
exploratory and/or trading routes/missions.
This information was NOT made known to co-moderator Bill Ryan, but was
revealed to me in an "Eyes Only" e-mail on Thursday, December 8, 2005 @
8:17 p.m., which I've never released, though I am now considering doing
so. If "my" ANONYMOUS asks me to NOT reveal/release his private e-mail
to me, I WILL respect his wishes and "kill" it.
STAY TUNED! ]
Obviously, this is well above our intelligence [beyond our capability].
I saw all I wanted to see. I told the doctor that we would like to
leave. Ebe #2 saw that I was upset and touched my hand. Instantly, I
felt concern. Ebe #2 was really concerned about what I saw. Ebe #2
said we [had to] leave. We traveled outside this building, a building
that I did not wish to see again. I saw the dark side of this
civilization. The Ebens are NOT the humane civilization we thought they
were.
But I must say they didn't hide anything. The doctor spoke straight to
us, just like [all of] the [other] Ebens. They don't know how to lie.
Seeing what we saw will change our impression of the Ebens as long as we
stay on this planet.
– END POSTING #13
For those who care...
1. My research on Serpo initiated because of Bill's first "moment of dishonesty" when he (self-admitted) allowed chapman to be a part of the game until chapman spoke against the game - and then all of a sudden Bill had had doubts about this character for nigh on 4 or 5 days. I found that to be extremely disingenuous. Actually I found that to be downright dishonest. So I decided to go out and do research on this. It was not "sanctioned" by ATS, nor was it part of some grand scheme. I was leary of him.
If you will look at the early days of the Serpo thread, I was as intrigued as anyone else on the board. But when the Serpo situation shifted from Victor to Bill there was a blatant degradation of value, style and outright "feel" of the thing. When the chapman event happened I became concerned that my fellow members of ATS were being taken for a ride. Being taken for a ride in a science fiction forum is okie-dokie - in fact, for free, it can be quite a pleasurable event. But that wasn't what was happening.
So I contacted Victor and started vetting the information Bill had given in his numerous posts here. Victor is an unassuming substitute English teacher who is very transparent, honest to a fault (and I truly mean that) and only has the feeling of being disappointed that he got "fired" as the messenger. In other words, there was no ego involved in the hand-off to Bill by Anon, but more of a personal feeling (by Victor) that he had failed in some way that caused this. He couldn't even tell me why he had failed...he was just sure he had.
Bill tried to make people believe that Victor had been "dismissed" (I think the use of this word tells a lot) because he had "severely edited" the submissions by Anon. But that's not true. The only thing Victor ever edited was grammatical errors, format (i.e. paragraphs) and spelling errors - that's because he's an English teacher and an Editor. And contrary to the spin Bill wants to put on things, to this day Anon has never uttered a word about being upset over how Victor handled his communications.
I began emailing Victor and discussing issues I had questions about. I didn't let Victor know why I was asking. I just asked. I quickly learned that Victor had repetitively requested IP comparison with Bill for the sake of verifying that the information was at least coming from the same computer - if not the same person. And then we had our first phone conversation - almost 3-1/2 hours long.
Why had Victor been so adamant about comparing IP addresses with Bill? Because the IP address had changed on the last post Victor received - posting 11. But not only that, Anonymous had changed. Victor and Anonymous1 had become something of penpals. For every submission you see on serpo.org from Anonymous through Victor, there were as many as 6 more you didn't see - where it was chit chat about Anon's kids, about his weekend plans, etc. Victor knows the town Anon lives in, he knows the town Anon works in. He knows what he likes to do for hobbies. They had become friends.
But on Posting 11 (the last one Victor received, and for which the IP had changed) Anon was no longer Anon1. The typical chit-chat preface to the information to be posted publically was gone. And for the first time the instructions "Post this just as I have sent it" was stated. But not only that, but Victor has webtv, and it can only handle ASCII text files. From the beginning Victor made clear to Anon1 that he could not receive attachments that were anything other than ASCII text files. Anon confirmed he understood upfront and always gave attachments in text files. Posting 11 was sent with a word document attachment. As if the sender had no clue he was sending an attachment the receiver couldn't even view. Victor had to forward the email with attachment to the "trusted third party" and ask him to convert the attachment to a text file.
This is why Victor had wanted to compare IPs with Bill. To find out if Bill was receiving Anon1 information or Anon2 information. But Billrefused. And he didn't just refuse once, he refused repeatedly...claiming confidentiality of source. What confidentiality? Victor already had the information about Anon...there's nothing to "reveal". Bill states Victor had no IP information, that is not true. But not only is that not true, but Bill knows it is not true because Victor had told him he had IP information. The only thing Victor had never revealed to Bill was that the final posting 11 had a different IP address than previous postings.
Meanwhile Bill was assuring us that he knew his source was not a pretender...
Posted by Bill Ryan, on January 24, 2006 at 17:45 GMT
And all the while refusing to do so. I continued to accumulate my information and had just recently listened (for the first time) to the C2C interview and was stymied by the fact that Hoagland was stating information that would not be revealed for 2 more weeks, and Ryan was proclaiming communication between the astronauts and earth.
Meanwhile, in this thread (this would be the RATS thread), the subject of how to handle Bill's run away mouth had come up and I recommended he be G.I.'d - and then ADVISOR comes one, gets fed up quick and does just that. *I do not have electrodes strapped to ADVISOR'S testicles.* He made that decision on his own. And believe me, I understand why he did. He saw bull-hockey being spewed at the members and lost his cool. That's being human - I felt the same way. S.O. worked quickly to reverse this moment of emotion, and Bill was back to playing his part - only with a good measure of wounded wing for the martyr.
Meanwhile, the correct questions were being asked of Bill both on this board as well as behind the scenes - Did you confirm the IP's were the same? How did you confirm the IP's were the same? etc. I watched as Bill answered every question posed to him - except for these questions - which by the way were posed while he was online. He not only skipped over them, he literally ignored them.
I had intended to present all of the information in a bit of an expose post, but something went bad real fast. On the backside others apparently were researching Bill as well, and there was no communication or corroboration between the others and myself. Apparently one of the people looking into the veracity of Bill's claims emailed Victor with some of the same questions I had already discussed with him at length. Victor became inpatient and answered with "I have already cleared this up with Val!" and then listed every single point of contradiction between reality and Bill's story. And he cc'd both myself and the contact form at serpo.org.
It was at that moment I had to decide whether to act like the world's greatest flaming bitch, or allow Bill time to formulate a defense. Guess which one I picked? I did not feel I should give any time to allow a story-teller to spin yet another story, and so I became confrontational, laying everything out.
I apologize to our members for the drama that caused. That's all I apologize for. Everything else needed to be done. Bill was lying, and he continues to. Even with the time that has passed, he still can only obfuscate - but he does not deny. In fact, any of it.
When I was looking into this my hope and my belief was that there might be a stitch of truth that was completely intriguing and breathtaking in the first submissions by Anon1 to Victor, and that maybe Anon1 would return and we would learn more of the truth. But now, with the C2C interview, and the timing and actions of various people around the third week of December, I fear this whole thing was promulgated by Bill and company. Rick Doty joined Victor's email list right before Anon made his first contact with Victor.
*sigh*
I fear the whole thing was a ruse. But I am open to watching and waiting for evidence that the first part had some morsel of truth.
Anyway, that's what happened.
1. My research on Serpo initiated because of Bill's first "moment of dishonesty" when he (self-admitted) allowed chapman to be a part of the game until chapman spoke against the game - and then all of a sudden Bill had had doubts about this character for nigh on 4 or 5 days. I found that to be extremely disingenuous. Actually I found that to be downright dishonest. So I decided to go out and do research on this. It was not "sanctioned" by ATS, nor was it part of some grand scheme. I was leary of him.
If you will look at the early days of the Serpo thread, I was as intrigued as anyone else on the board. But when the Serpo situation shifted from Victor to Bill there was a blatant degradation of value, style and outright "feel" of the thing. When the chapman event happened I became concerned that my fellow members of ATS were being taken for a ride. Being taken for a ride in a science fiction forum is okie-dokie - in fact, for free, it can be quite a pleasurable event. But that wasn't what was happening.
So I contacted Victor and started vetting the information Bill had given in his numerous posts here. Victor is an unassuming substitute English teacher who is very transparent, honest to a fault (and I truly mean that) and only has the feeling of being disappointed that he got "fired" as the messenger. In other words, there was no ego involved in the hand-off to Bill by Anon, but more of a personal feeling (by Victor) that he had failed in some way that caused this. He couldn't even tell me why he had failed...he was just sure he had.
Bill tried to make people believe that Victor had been "dismissed" (I think the use of this word tells a lot) because he had "severely edited" the submissions by Anon. But that's not true. The only thing Victor ever edited was grammatical errors, format (i.e. paragraphs) and spelling errors - that's because he's an English teacher and an Editor. And contrary to the spin Bill wants to put on things, to this day Anon has never uttered a word about being upset over how Victor handled his communications.
I began emailing Victor and discussing issues I had questions about. I didn't let Victor know why I was asking. I just asked. I quickly learned that Victor had repetitively requested IP comparison with Bill for the sake of verifying that the information was at least coming from the same computer - if not the same person. And then we had our first phone conversation - almost 3-1/2 hours long.
Why had Victor been so adamant about comparing IP addresses with Bill? Because the IP address had changed on the last post Victor received - posting 11. But not only that, Anonymous had changed. Victor and Anonymous1 had become something of penpals. For every submission you see on serpo.org from Anonymous through Victor, there were as many as 6 more you didn't see - where it was chit chat about Anon's kids, about his weekend plans, etc. Victor knows the town Anon lives in, he knows the town Anon works in. He knows what he likes to do for hobbies. They had become friends.
But on Posting 11 (the last one Victor received, and for which the IP had changed) Anon was no longer Anon1. The typical chit-chat preface to the information to be posted publically was gone. And for the first time the instructions "Post this just as I have sent it" was stated. But not only that, but Victor has webtv, and it can only handle ASCII text files. From the beginning Victor made clear to Anon1 that he could not receive attachments that were anything other than ASCII text files. Anon confirmed he understood upfront and always gave attachments in text files. Posting 11 was sent with a word document attachment. As if the sender had no clue he was sending an attachment the receiver couldn't even view. Victor had to forward the email with attachment to the "trusted third party" and ask him to convert the attachment to a text file.
This is why Victor had wanted to compare IPs with Bill. To find out if Bill was receiving Anon1 information or Anon2 information. But Billrefused. And he didn't just refuse once, he refused repeatedly...claiming confidentiality of source. What confidentiality? Victor already had the information about Anon...there's nothing to "reveal". Bill states Victor had no IP information, that is not true. But not only is that not true, but Bill knows it is not true because Victor had told him he had IP information. The only thing Victor had never revealed to Bill was that the final posting 11 had a different IP address than previous postings.
Meanwhile Bill was assuring us that he knew his source was not a pretender...
Posted by Bill Ryan, on January 24, 2006 at 17:45 GMT
: : Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Hi Bill,
Can you absolutely verify that this has come from Anonymous and not from some 'pretender'?
Regards
Hi, Zep – Yes, I can.
Best, Bill
And all the while refusing to do so. I continued to accumulate my information and had just recently listened (for the first time) to the C2C interview and was stymied by the fact that Hoagland was stating information that would not be revealed for 2 more weeks, and Ryan was proclaiming communication between the astronauts and earth.
Meanwhile, in this thread (this would be the RATS thread), the subject of how to handle Bill's run away mouth had come up and I recommended he be G.I.'d - and then ADVISOR comes one, gets fed up quick and does just that. *I do not have electrodes strapped to ADVISOR'S testicles.* He made that decision on his own. And believe me, I understand why he did. He saw bull-hockey being spewed at the members and lost his cool. That's being human - I felt the same way. S.O. worked quickly to reverse this moment of emotion, and Bill was back to playing his part - only with a good measure of wounded wing for the martyr.
Meanwhile, the correct questions were being asked of Bill both on this board as well as behind the scenes - Did you confirm the IP's were the same? How did you confirm the IP's were the same? etc. I watched as Bill answered every question posed to him - except for these questions - which by the way were posed while he was online. He not only skipped over them, he literally ignored them.
I had intended to present all of the information in a bit of an expose post, but something went bad real fast. On the backside others apparently were researching Bill as well, and there was no communication or corroboration between the others and myself. Apparently one of the people looking into the veracity of Bill's claims emailed Victor with some of the same questions I had already discussed with him at length. Victor became inpatient and answered with "I have already cleared this up with Val!" and then listed every single point of contradiction between reality and Bill's story. And he cc'd both myself and the contact form at serpo.org.
It was at that moment I had to decide whether to act like the world's greatest flaming bitch, or allow Bill time to formulate a defense. Guess which one I picked? I did not feel I should give any time to allow a story-teller to spin yet another story, and so I became confrontational, laying everything out.
I apologize to our members for the drama that caused. That's all I apologize for. Everything else needed to be done. Bill was lying, and he continues to. Even with the time that has passed, he still can only obfuscate - but he does not deny. In fact, any of it.
When I was looking into this my hope and my belief was that there might be a stitch of truth that was completely intriguing and breathtaking in the first submissions by Anon1 to Victor, and that maybe Anon1 would return and we would learn more of the truth. But now, with the C2C interview, and the timing and actions of various people around the third week of December, I fear this whole thing was promulgated by Bill and company. Rick Doty joined Victor's email list right before Anon made his first contact with Victor.
*sigh*
I fear the whole thing was a ruse. But I am open to watching and waiting for evidence that the first part had some morsel of truth.
Anyway, that's what happened.
Val leads Us To The Next Step
Val and Springer have both verified that Victor has WEBTV. Since it will only handle ASCII Victor was aware of what was posted at Serpo.org but not what Bill posted at ATS.
What Victor saw was that Bill had edited out the A-Q-C-H-U-L-O-I-D portion of the post and realized Bill was putting a new spin on the story.
Bill was playing truth by omission, perhaps?
Edited to correct misspelling of Archquloid
[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]
[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]
Val and Springer have both verified that Victor has WEBTV. Since it will only handle ASCII Victor was aware of what was posted at Serpo.org but not what Bill posted at ATS.
What Victor saw was that Bill had edited out the A-Q-C-H-U-L-O-I-D portion of the post and realized Bill was putting a new spin on the story.
Bill was playing truth by omission, perhaps?
Edited to correct misspelling of Archquloid
[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]
[edit on 6-2-2006 by garyo1954]
nice of you to explain in detail Valhall .
It does bring more understanding of the situation.
Maybe those electrodes mght come in handy for someone else
It does bring more understanding of the situation.
Maybe those electrodes mght come in handy for someone else
I remember seeing people talk about this "Archquloid" thing before (while back)... From where did people know about it before? Viktor mentions that
he never released it, or maybe he did afterwards? If Bill did not want it posted, then how did the Archquloid info get posted on here before?? who did
that? (this was like a week or 2 ago or more)
Why would Bill ommit that portion of the info? Does not make sense to me. What is to be gained/lost? Maybe he thought it was one of Viktors "edits" and deleted it on sight?... who knows.
[edit on 6-2-2006 by Unplugged]
Why would Bill ommit that portion of the info? Does not make sense to me. What is to be gained/lost? Maybe he thought it was one of Viktors "edits" and deleted it on sight?... who knows.
[edit on 6-2-2006 by Unplugged]
Originally posted by YYZZYY
Here's the relevant quotes from Bill:
"I don't have any information about the IP addresses of Victor's Anonymous. Victor will confirm that he had never shared those with me."
"I've never said I've confirmed anything about the IP addresses. I don't know what Victor's Anonymous's IP addresses are."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>" I think you may have misunderstood or overlooked what I said here. What I'd missed until last Friday was that the IP address is (apparently) the same as Anonymous's."
"As far as I'm aware, all the information is coming from the same address... "
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I noticed that Bill Ryan did not refer to Victor's Anonymous in the alleged (3rd) incriminating quote.
Again, please correct me if I am wrong, but the incriminating quote is cited in response to different questions than the first two...
Correct me again, if I recall that the "incriminating " quote is cited from Bill Ryan's response to a question about the E-mail he allegedly received from LANL (Los Alamos National Laboratories). It was always my understanding (forgive me) that Bill was speaking about the IP header from LANL being the same as Anomymous NUMBER TWO...
And Anonymous Number Two would have no problem sending Bill Ryan an E-mail if, "he" so wished... (The IP of which could then be compared, in theory, to the IP address of the LANL E-mail.)
Might this have been mis-interpreted?
Again, if I rushed to judgement, you have my apologies.
Serpentime
So what does this latest revelation mean for the whole story? Is there still any truth in it? Or is it all too far gone to tell what was real and what
wasn't?
What do we know is true, and what do we know isn't true? Wow this thing is spinning out of control.
If we have a good communcation set up with Victor, why are we still listening to Bill Ryan? Or has Victor been posting on this thread and I haven't seen it? (Sorry, haven't had time to check through all nearly 250 pages, especially when every time I refresh there is another 3 new posts).
What do we know is true, and what do we know isn't true? Wow this thing is spinning out of control.
If we have a good communcation set up with Victor, why are we still listening to Bill Ryan? Or has Victor been posting on this thread and I haven't seen it? (Sorry, haven't had time to check through all nearly 250 pages, especially when every time I refresh there is another 3 new posts).
Originally posted by Unplugged
Why would Bill ommit that portion of the info? Does not make sense to me. What is to be gained/lost? Maybe he thought it was one of Viktors "edits" and deleted it on sight?... who knows.
[edit on 6-2-2006 by Unplugged]
Bill DID mention it after Post #13.
It was Bill's teaser to keep us hanging on for more.
Victor realized that Bill was putting a spin on the info.....not reporting it completely, possibly withholding important parts.
Thanks for the correction on the spelling. I'll change my other post now....
(and find that link)
G
Originally posted by Yarcofin
If we have a good communcation set up with Victor, why are we still listening to Bill Ryan? Or has Victor been posting on this thread and I haven't seen it? (Sorry, haven't had time to check through all nearly 250 pages, especially when every time I refresh there is another 3 new posts).
Victor can't even keep up with this thread. That's another point Bill misled the members of this board on. Victor has not been monitoring this thread. It was only in the past week (after extensive conversations between myself and Victor) that Victor realized he needed to try to check on what Bill was saying. Victor's webtv is disasterous at loading our pages. It crashes about every 3rd to 4th time he tries to load ATS. Further to that, Victor (unless in the past few days) has never even read serpo.org. His response to that question "Why would I? I've already read everything there." (And he - in his own mind - had. Either directly from Anon or through the email list that Bill Ryan was submitting "his" Anon submissions to.)
That should go a long way toward understanding how the predators have preyed.
Wow, well I think he should definately get himself to a public library and check this out. I would love to see all of the comments and corrections he
would have to make to the story.
Too bad Bill has seemingly ruined the whole story now, if it was true to begin with. I don't know if the truth will/can ever get out now.
Too bad Bill has seemingly ruined the whole story now, if it was true to begin with. I don't know if the truth will/can ever get out now.
I will humbly retract my statement of Victor checking on Serpo.org (since Val has electrodes handy).
I apologize and admit Victor and I never spoke of his visiting there. It was an assumption on my part that he kept watch and an error which I admit.
G
I apologize and admit Victor and I never spoke of his visiting there. It was an assumption on my part that he kept watch and an error which I admit.
G
So what does this mean?
Victor is still legit and Bill was taking and twisting this stuff for his own purposes?
I don't understand how Victor even uses WebTV, didn't they shut that service down like a year ago?
I think there's a service called MSN TV or something now, not too sure.
Can we take what Victor said as the "original" text, and just disregard Bill's stuff?
Talk to me like a 5 year old so I can figure out who the good guys are and the bad guys are.
-O
Victor is still legit and Bill was taking and twisting this stuff for his own purposes?
I don't understand how Victor even uses WebTV, didn't they shut that service down like a year ago?
I think there's a service called MSN TV or something now, not too sure.
Can we take what Victor said as the "original" text, and just disregard Bill's stuff?
Talk to me like a 5 year old so I can figure out who the good guys are and the bad guys are.
-O
Good work Val.
I figured you were on to something when you got pissed... and sure enough turned over the facts. I'm glad that's all out of the way.
Now, I'm just curious about Anon1. Was he affiliated with other conspirators? Or did the others (Bill Ryan) simply take the story and run with it? The scientology connections are interesting. SKMDC1 posted a thread with some good observations.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I figured you were on to something when you got pissed... and sure enough turned over the facts. I'm glad that's all out of the way.
Now, I'm just curious about Anon1. Was he affiliated with other conspirators? Or did the others (Bill Ryan) simply take the story and run with it? The scientology connections are interesting. SKMDC1 posted a thread with some good observations.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Yes, there is still webtv, and Victor uses it. I traced Victor before ever speaking to him, to make sure that I was, in fact, speaking to him, and
not Bill Ryan. And as an ironic turn of events, even Bill Ryan can verify that one! Because when I sent the tracking email it freaked Victor out and
he responded to me and cc'd Bill.
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