Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by Unplugged
Then you havent read the thread at all. I have followed the thread since the beginning and I have seen 3 or 4 messeges demanding that Bill reveal Anons identity (or else hes being a "liar for witholding vital info", etc.). But then again... most, if not all of the times I saw those messeges, they were from Shawna. So...

No I haven't read every word. And if that's true, I take back what I said. I certainly don't expect him to reveal his source. I guess it's not too far-fetched to think that one or two people would ask, but the vast majority are not. And anyway, what's the harm in asking. He can say no.

Originally posted by YYZZYY

Is anyone undertanding me here?

Ye I'm with you on that, its pretty much what I posted about 6 posts up from yours, but you did a better job explaining it

I seriously cant understand what is going on here a lot of people seem to have decided that this is a hoax, in some way or other controlled by Bill, and have gone off like a bull in a china shop. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that it isn't a possibililty I just haven't seen any concrete evidence that supports yet! i.e there isn't another possible explanation!

Originally posted by futureafter
I'm kind of lost in this thread so I could see where you are coming from YYZZYY.......But Bill could easily clear this up by allowing a cross checking of the IP's with Victor. He has not done this and even refuses to do so.

Why hide it? Victor already has Anon's IP so the "Non disclosure" excuse won't hold up.

Of course only Bill know the real reason, but he's already stated on many occasions that (at least to him) sending *any* information pertain to Anon would be an extreme breach of trust, and one that likely would end Anon's communication with him. Think about it... Victor was "fired" from that job, and Bill put in his place. Why would that be? Perhaps Anon trusts Bill more than Victor? I believe it's confirmed that Victor edited Anon's postings, and Bill refuses to do so. Wouldn't that be another reason for Anon to trust Bill over Victor?

Who knows? Perhaps Bill questions Victors ability to "contain" sensitive information? Hell, I wouldn't trust Victor myself considering how his "private" email list was so readily and easily divulged!

Originally posted by Whiterabbit29
a lot of people seem to have decided that this is a hoax,

I haven't decided it's a hoax. I know PLENTY of people haven't made their final decision. Just because I'm pointing out inconsistencies doesn't mean I've made up my mind.

Don't jump the gun here. I've only heard about 4-5 people say they're done. I wouldn't still be in here if I'd decided.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Whiterabbit29
a lot of people seem to have decided that this is a hoax,

I haven't decided it's a hoax. I know PLENTY of people haven't made their final decision. Just because I'm pointing out inconsistencies doesn't mean I've made up my mind.

Don't jump the gun here. I've only heard about 4-5 people say they're done. I wouldn't still be in here if I'd decided.

This wasn't directed at you in particular BH, so I would say I wasn't the one jumping the gun no offence!

I guess It's just the overall feeling I'm getting from a lot of posters. I for one do not want to let this go, untill we are sure that we are correct in our assumptions



[edit on 6-2-2006 by Whiterabbit29]

Originally posted by Whiterabbit29
This wasn't directed at you in particular BH, so I would say I wasn't the one jumping the gun

no offence!

I know. I didn't think you were speaking directly to me. I was just pointing out that even someone who has been as vocal as I have recently about doubting certain facts and questioning inconsistencies may not have given up on Serpo as a hoax or Bill at all. I was just using myself as an example.

I didn't jump the gun either. And no offense taken. You'd have to work pretty hard to offend me.

I'm glad there are a small handful here with open minds that understand the value of sound Logic and Reasoning, and know not to jump to hasty conclusions, especially when their conclusions are based on other knee-jerk reactionaries.

PS I'm still patiently awaiting replies from Shawnna and some Admins... they all seemed to have disappeared.

Hi guys,

please do not ask about last night, I've been sworn to secrecy!!

And no I will not tell you who my interrogators were, but there were at least twelve of them; two too many for me to handle!

I think many of you are missing an important point; initially Bill stated that he was positive that his source was the same anon as Victor's, but he changed his tune on this and if my memory serves me well stated that one of his confidentes and Victor had agreed that we were probably dealing with a separate entity (anon2).

This may be the reason he does not wish to give Victor or a third-party his header details for his source. But one thing is for certain, he has always sworn to protect his sources.

Best Wishes

J

The truth is it is not Bill Ryan that has killed Serpo it is the ATS owners and moderaters that have bullied him and driven him away. Personally I think this is irresponsible and find it a bit embarresing to watch the likes of Skepticoverlord and Centrist squirming to save face after previousley sucking up to Bill.

Originally posted by YYZZYY
Think about it... Victor was "fired" from that job, and Bill put in his place. Why would that be? Perhaps Anon trusts Bill more than Victor? I believe it's confirmed that Victor edited Anon's postings, and Bill refuses to do so. Wouldn't that be another reason for Anon to trust Bill over Victor?

Just like the matter about Bill confirming IP's we can't assume anything at this point. So we don't actually know what happened with the Victor/Anon relationship. Bill assumes it was because Victor edited the content...Others assume that all of the information Bill has recieved directly isn't even from the same person and that the real Anon has released any new info, its all speculation. The bottom line is we just don't know. That's why we'd like Bill to allow the IP's to be checked. Then at least we'd have some solid data.


[edit on 6-2-2006 by futureafter]

Originally posted by YYZZYY
WTF? He does NOT state that at all! Show me were he said "doesn't know anon's email addy but he knows it's anon because of the "IP/HEADER INFO" in the email that matches what Victor got."

This looks like one of the posts:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

More is here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by alien hunter
The truth is it is not Bill Ryan that has killed Serpo it is the ATS owners and moderaters that have bullied him and driven him away. Personally I think this is irresponsible and find it a bit embarresing to watch the likes of Skepticoverlord and Centrist squirming to save face after previousley sucking up to Bill.

Bold mine

That's really interesting. Why would a member that has been here for a couple of days be embarassed by anything that happened here? Do you have a vested interest in this?

Sucking up to Bill? Who came to who dude?

Personal opinion here. I'm finding it interesting that a lot of new members are finding ATS to be offensive here and apologise for Bill's short-comings. I personally don't care for Aliens or UFO's, not my thing, I am rational though and this I find VERY interesting. Are these people Bills friends?

I'm not saying though.

Originally posted by YYZZYY
PS I'm still patiently awaiting replies from Shawnna and some Admins... they all seemed to have disappeared.

I've been offline for about 2 hours. Can you point to the posts?

Also, keep in mind that I've always (and still) hold out that Bill might be consumed as an unwitting messenger who began as a neutral relay, and evolved into a champion of the topic with a concern over whether or not people believe it... and perhaps, he's now relaying the "hoaxification" of Serpo. I doubt it, but it's among the possibilities I personally consider.

I do think there was something to the Serpo affair before we encountered Anon2... and these are strong words from a confessed "ET visitation skeptic".

I've also said the final chapter isn't written yet.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by YYZZYY
WTF? He does NOT state that at all! Show me were he said "doesn't know anon's email addy but he knows it's anon because of the "IP/HEADER INFO" in the email that matches what Victor got."

This looks like one of the posts:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

More is here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I understand the need to edit down quotes, but jeez, you edited out the entire point of my post... the post which explains why the two links you just added are irrelevant in showing that Bill said QUOTE "doesn't know anon's email addy but he knows it's anon because of the "IP/HEADER INFO" in the email that matches what Victor got."

Bill never said any such thing.

Here's what I posted...

Here's the relevant quotes from Bill:

"I don't have any information about the IP addresses of Victor's Anonymous. Victor will confirm that he had never shared those with me."

"I've never said I've confirmed anything about the IP addresses. I don't know what Victor's Anonymous's IP addresses are."

Question - Can you absolutely verify that this has come from Anonymous and not from some 'pretender'?
"Hi, Zep – Yes, I can."

" I think you may have misunderstood or overlooked what I said here. What I'd missed until last Friday was that the IP address is (apparently) the same as Anonymous's."

"As far as I'm aware, all the information is coming from the same address. But that doesn't mean the same fingers are on the keyboard, or that the address hasn't been cloned, or that the original typist isn't operating to different orders. I really have no idea yet quite what's happening, any more than anyone else has. "

OK, so from this all we know from Bill is that claims to ba able to "absolutely verify that this has come from Anonymous and not from some 'pretender'". Other than that, I don't see anywhere that Bill claims to know it's Anon based upon an IP Address. Bill concedes that the IP is *APPARENTLY* the same in one of his quotes, and " As far as I'm aware" in another, but that implies he doesn't know for sure... again, leading me to believe that he's used another method to verify Anon.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I've been offline for about 2 hours.

Can you point to the posts?

Just read starting from pg 230. There are many good ideas and points made (not just from me) that deserve some thought and response.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by YYZZYY]

Originally posted by YYZZYY
the post which explains why the two links you just added are irrelevant

But the posts I linked to pre-date Bill's comments you quoted. The issue was a discrepency in earlier statements by Bill.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by YYZZYY
the post which explains why the two links you just added are irrelevant

But the posts I linked to pre-date Bill's comments you quoted. The issue was a discrepency in earlier statements by Bill.

Actually there is no discrepancy that I can see... in the two links you just quoted, Bill AGAIN says "apparently" and "seems" to describe the IPs, just as he did with the quotes I posted.

My point is the same... to the best of my knowledge, he NEVER said he determined Anon's identity based on IPs! I've yet to see any links that indicate he did.

Has anybody else noticed that Centrist is conspicuous by his abscence. Looks like he has done a runner too. Can't say I blame him he was taken in by Bill hook line and sinker.

Originally posted by alien hunter
Has anybody else noticed that Centrist is conspicuous by his abscence. Looks like he has done a runner too. Can't say I blame him he was taken in by Bill hook line and sinker.

LOL.

I have also been wondering where Centrist's great posts have gone, I really noticed when he stopped posting. It would be interesting to get his take on all of this, since he has/is been in communication with the main characters in all this.

I have been lurking among the boards for awhile, learning what I can. I stumbled upon this one in a RSS feed. Interesting is the best I will say at the moment.

I'm not going to jump to one side or the other. Nor am I going to throw down more questions for Bill or anyone else on this board dealing with this Project. Too new to this research.

However, something I AM NOT new to is networking. Actually routing and ISP network support. I have seen many of you say that comparing the actual header/IP information is proof. Here is my question for all of you and if I am wrong, sorry in advance. What would a header/IP prove to you exactly? That this person is real or that Bill is telling the truth/lying? Not exactly. Think of it this way.
Many ISPs provide dial-up service which assigns a dynamic IP to the user for that session. Once you log off, that number is placed back in the pool to be re-assigned. I know, many of you know this.

Now, alot of ISPs, even the smaller ones, have switched over to nation wide dial up provided by other carriers such as Level 3, Ait, OnRamp, and others. They provide the back bone while you provide the user.

It is possible that 2 people are on the same network, sending this information. One could be real, the other a hoax. No way to be certain. The other problem with this setup in today's technology is public access systems. Could be at a cafe one day sending this info, the next, at a public terminal someplace else, on another network with a different subnet. See?

Even if Bill forked over the header/IP info for comparison, it won't mean much. Too many variables involved with the headers.

Now, if anon told Bill a name, pass word, or something personal, and then did the same with Victor, then and only then would you be able to say it was the same person.

Onto Bill not providing the info. Could be he gained the info in an illegal manner. Being an ISP myself, you won't get the account name assigned a static IP unless you have a warrant. Period. If he has an IP and an account name attached, I would really question that.

Thanks for listening to me ramble. Back to the padded room.