Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Originally posted by waffleprime
have you talked to victor martinez to clarify that it was the contact..because the man, would probabally know if was the same person or not..to know if the i.p.'s were the same..and it has been announced he is lurking...is it not?

the fact as of now, we don't know if the i.p.s are the same even if were dissecting every letter the man says....so maybe that should be the next thing bill should address?

deny ignorance.

No he hasn't. Not only has he not attempted to verify his source, he has refused repeatedly to compare IPs.

Then he tells another person that he receives his Anonymous submissions via USPS...which precludes even having an IP.

Originally posted by Valhall



bill. can we get your view on this? this definitly needs to be addressed, your views and the i.p.s are essential to this.

No he hasn't. Not only has he not attempted to verify his source, he has refused repeatedly to compare IPs.

Then he tells another person that he receives his Anonymous submissions via USPS...which precludes even having an IP.

bill. can we get your view on this? this definitly needs to be addressed, your views and the i.p.s are essential to this.




[edit on 4-2-2006 by waffleprime]

Victor said he, Bill, refused to compare IP's??

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by waffleprime
the viral campaign has been debated. but, with bills open information its seem naught. and calling bill a liar straight out? nice way ta get answers valhall.

What answers? "Damn, okay, it was fun...let me go back to writing my book!"

He has repeatedly stated in this thread that he was absolutely sure he was talking to Anonymous. He refused to compare IPs in order to verify his source.

Originally posted by sandman658
Victor said he, Bill, refused to compare IP's??

Repeatedly. I also do not want the question to drop off the radar screen as to how Richard Hoagland knew information that was not submitted to anyone for two more weeks.

Originally posted by Valhall
You are lying. You have never compared IP addresses between your Anonymous and Victor's anonymous.

Wow.

Valhall, this is correct. I explained that just now. I don't have any information about the IP addresses of Victor's Anonymous. Victor will confirm that he had never shared those with me.

But I've never said that either. I've never said I've confirmed anything about the IP addresses. I don't know what Victor's Anonymous's IP addresses are. All his e-mails have been deleted by his Web TV system. I explained that just now.

Best, Bill

[edit on 4-2-2006 by Bill Ryan]

No, that's true. The IP address appears to be the same. (Note: On the contact form the IP address only is given – no routing details or anything else.)

Bill -- this latest post was accompanied by attachments. Since you cannot send attachments via the contact form, how was this delivered to you?

Also, were the 'GIF' files what anonymous instructed you to post? Or was it the 4 mb scans?

thanks.

Pictures:

"Ebe2 shows us a device and tells us everyone of us must wear it. It looks like a small transistor radio."

The asymetrical design on the schematic jumped out at me as frequency modulation. Then I remembered the above.

EDIT: Oh, and the pear shaped thingies are where you attach it to your belt.

[edit on 2/4/2006 by Arm Of Geddon]

Originally posted by Valhall
What answers? "Damn, okay, it was fun...let me go back to writing my book!"

Valhall, do you have any idea how unpleasant you sound at the moment?

He has repeatedly stated in this thread that he was absolutely sure he was talking to Anonymous.

Actually, I think if you go back and look you'll see that I was the first to offer the idea that this might not be the same Anonymous, and that Anon B might have been discrediting Anon A. I believe I used the words "there may have been a coup", or something very similar. (If someone could check this, I'd be grateful.)

All the theories I've shared have been theories. I don't have to do that. I'm trying to be intelligent and helpful.

My favored hypotheses have changed, too – and so they should be able to. I do not have fixed ideas about this. I'm close to the information and everything that's been happening, but I still know relatively little (and not all that much more than anyone else does).

You think I know what this object is that's been posted? I can hazard a wild guess (and I did just now), but I don't know the answer any more than you do.

Best, Bill

I can't open the info released by Anonymous page!

What's wrong with it!

In all fairness to Bill, i do recall him saying on the Coast to Coast show that he did not have the IP addresses.

Just my .02 cents.

Originally posted by Bill Ryan

Originally posted by Valhall
What answers? "Damn, okay, it was fun...let me go back to writing my book!"

Valhall, do you have any idea how unpleasant you sound at the moment?

He has repeatedly stated in this thread that he was absolutely sure he was talking to Anonymous.

Actually, I think if you go back and look you'll see that I was the first to offer the idea that this might not be the same Anonymous, and that Anon B might have been discrediting Anon A. I believe I used the words "there may have been a coup", or something very similar. (If someone could check this, I'd be grateful.)


Best, Bill

Yes - Bill did use the word 'coup'

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And I must add that I am very surprised at the venom infused in Val's posts. What's up Val? Must be something really bothering you about this "Serpo Story" as I've not seen you react with such anger.


[edit on 4-2-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by Bill Ryan

Originally posted by Valhall
What answers? "Damn, okay, it was fun...let me go back to writing my book!"

Valhall, do you have any idea how unpleasant you sound at the moment?

this is what I'm talkin about here, the guys willing to talk about it. there is not need to jump the gun and outright insult the man if it can be dignifiably explained...imho, I think that was quite "ignorant"

back on track: a radio transistor? translator or something? belt hook ups?
what is that thing!

Valhall, this is correct. I explained that just now. I don't have any information about the IP addresses of Victor's Anonymous. Victor will confirm that he had never shared those with me.

But I've never said that either. I've never said I've confirmed anything about the IP addresses. I don't know what Victor's Anonymous's IP addresses are. All his e-mails have been deleted by his Web TV system. I explained that just now.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Posted by Bill Ryan, on January 24, 2006 at 17:45 GMT

: Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Hi Bill,
Can you absolutely verify that this has come from Anonymous and not from some 'pretender'?

Regards
Hi, Zep – Yes, I can.

Best, Bill

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hi, netron –

Many thanks. I think you may have misunderstood or overlooked what I said here. What I'd missed until last Friday was that the IP address is (apparently) the same as Anonymous's.

The IP address is (sometimes) the identifying "number plate" or "fingerprint" of an individual computer – and (sometimes) a descriptor of the routing a message takes (a function of the network). The IP address is not visible in the text of the message but is part of the message's "header" (which most e-mail clients, like Outlook, can read if you choose the appropriate menu option).

Maybe an IT specialist here could explain that further, or better. I've just realized in writing this that you may have been thinking I was referring to the e-mail address. That's something completely different.

With some considerable caution, then, I'm thinking that this may have been a genuine signal that this is 80/20 disinformation. On the contact form, of course anyone can give any e-mail address they like (and many do).

Re the "20% fiction" component, any one of us could take one-fifth of the words/sentences/paragraphs in a story and alter them so it ended up reading like nonsense. (5% would do it, actually, if you chose the right 5%. This is one line of thinking I really encourage members to consider.)

Best, Bill

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Posted by Bill Ryan, on February 1, 2006 at 19:08 GMT

: Originally posted by dogberts not
Bill, I vaguely remember you mentioning something about the headers of the last two posts on Serpo.org vs. discussion with Victor re the source of the other material. 13a was the point of departure for all of us because
1. It, along with 13b smacked of discontinuity with all previous Serpo.org posts. 12 boarded, 13 arrived, one dead. Now 12 arrived, one dead, two more to die later, still 13.
2. We all sensed a huge level of disingenuous manipulation by the change in tone and the level of conflict with previous information already distributed to us. This should explain to you why this group is so intent on resolving the incongruent (may I use the word?) manipulation or mind control perceived subconsciously by most of us re 13a and 13b. Until these inconsistencies are fully resolved (and they are not yet) the skeptics will be right.
Could you please check the headers of both sets of data (yours and Victor’s) and refer back to us your findings or at least point to the posting where you may have already done that? This would help us tremendously in defining the 80% truth /20% false issue. Personally, I think the earlier ATS posts a hundred pages or so ago hypothesizing two DIA factions destabilizing the release effort in an internal but externally apparent battle on Serpo.org may not be so far off.
Hi, dogberts not –

Many thanks. As far as I'm aware, all the information is coming from the same address. But that doesn't mean the same fingers are on the keyboard, or that the address hasn't been cloned, or that the original typist isn't operating to different orders. I really have no idea yet quite what's happening, any more than anyone else has.

Best, Bill

A friend of mine sent me the address for the Project Serpo site recently, and I've spent the last few days browsing through it.

I'm not a scientist and have no scientific training, however, I am a professional writer by trade, mostly fiction, some historical fiction, but all of which requires a great deal of training, study, and research in the art of written communication. It's beside the point, but you may or may not have read any one of my books or heard of them.

This email deals with the journal entries submitted by Anonymous.

First, let me say that I'm an optimistic skeptic - that is, I'm willing to believe, as long as the evidence is convincing.

I’ve read all of the journal entries. The team leader, who appears to be the author of these, tends to write his entries in the present tense. Not always, but quite often.

When I first began reading them, I was intrigued by the ability of the author to implant a rather clear image in the reader's mind of what he was describing. For several reasons, this struck me as odd.

Generally, most people who keep a personal journal typically write in the past tense, as the events they are relating happened in the past. The team leader here is often writing his entries as if the events are taking place as he pens them. This is quite peculiar - not unheard of, but rather uncommon. We usually write down events as we recall them from memory and subsequently write them in the past tense, even if they occurred very recently. The team leader's entries are usually filled with great detail and seem to relate events that took place over the course of a few hours and sometimes over several days. In short, if he penned these entries after a long "day", his brain, just like anyone else's, should have automatically recalled these events as having taken place in the past and written them as such. Some of his entries are written in the past tense, but most are not, giving, as mentioned, the impression that they were written at the time of observation.

There are two basic reasons why someone would write these events in the present tense, and they apply to anyone regardless of professional or personal happenstance.

First, they may write their entries in the present tense, as their mind recalls the past events in a story format. That is, instead of saying, "We did this, then that, and then went and did something else", their mind is replaying the events much like a VCR, and the person writes what they "see" on the screen of their mind. It's as if they are home from vacation and watching a video they made of their trip while at the same time writing what they see on the television. Their mind works like a VCR in this respect. The actual events took place in the past, but the author writes them in the present tense, because he is seeing them as "current".

As stated, this method of recording journal entries is quite rare. Again, it's not unheard of, but simply very uncommon.

The second reason for writing past events in the present tense is because those events may have never taken place, but the author writes as if they have and, in fact, ARE taking place as he records them. This is a very common error made by inexperienced writers of fiction. The author has thought out the storyline, gone over it in their mind several times, worked out the bugs and details, and then sets about putting it to paper. So, as with the VCR analogy, the author is relating events as he sees them in his mind, however, in this scenario they are fictional, as opposed to the home movie of the vacation, which is real.

In short, the entries read as if the author is trying too hard to be convincing. So hard, in fact, that in his eagerness to share them and convince us these events are real, he inadvertently puts them in the present tense.

Law enforcement agencies, as well as those in the intelligence community, use this type of writing analysis to determine the veracity of a particular text. It's not infallable or perfect, but, like the common lie-detector, it can be used as one more piece of evidence when attempting to authenticate information within a document.

And, just as with those who administer lie-detector tests, veteran writers can often detect subtle details in documents, such as these posted by Anonymous, that the untrained eye would likely otherwise miss.

Strictly from the point of view of a professional writer, I'm not sure I believe the journal entries to be real. I won't say they aren't, but my trained eye leads me to believe they were the work of an active imagination. There are simply too many discrepancies in the writing style that don't fit with the established pretense behind the documents.

Originally posted by Arm Of Geddon

The asymetrical design on the schematic jumped out at me as frequency modulation. Then I remembered the above.

EDIT: Oh, and the pear shaped thingies are where you attach it to your belt.

[edit on 2/4/2006 by Arm Of Geddon]

, b

Ok, glad to see that I wasn't the only one that noticed the asymmetrical design, and the more I look at it, it does look like some kind of electrical schematic...but the pear/key shaped things as belt attachments? Yeah, I know this is pretty much a non-issue and probably a bit picky, but seeing as they're opposite to eachother, how would you use all three to clip it to anything? If they were made for this function, wouldn't they all be facing the same direction?

Originally posted by Valhall

This is the only statement made by the effect of the trip to Serpo prior to Posting 11 (which came to Victor on the 19th/20th):

During the trip, each of our team members were frequently dizzy, disoriented and suffered headaches. The craft did not go through any weightlessness during the trip. The craft was very large and allowed the team to exercise.

But Richard Hoagland, during the 12/6 interview on C2C stated they suffered nausea, ... , medical problems, ... , and severe effects. THIS HAD NOT BEEN DISCLOSED AND WAS NOT UNTIL 12/21.

Posting Two by Anonymous (4 November, 2005)

During the trip, each of our team members were frequently dizzy, disoriented and suffered headaches. The craft did not go through any weightlessness during the trip. The craft was very large and allowed the team to exercise.

It says November 4th on the Serpo site. Posting Two. 4th paragraph down. Maybe I'm missing something. For the first time, I'm confused. So this is how it feels.

I have to agree with Bill, Vall is being unduely nasty over the IP issue with the anons.

Vall if you wish to abuse Bill in this public manner, please use one of your sock puppets like the other mods do, instead of dragging down the level of the discussion.

I think we need to get back to analysing this amazing picture that took weeks to create and get here, created, by the look of it, by some 8yr old on a simple graphics program.

Hummmm.. the diagrams Bill posted here on ats does't seem to
be on serpo.org ,as I just tried.

last two post from anon were more simotaious..

ep03

Originally posted by DogGreen
A friend of mine sent me the address for the Project Serpo site recently, and I've spent the last few days browsing through it.

There are simply too many discrepancies in the writing style that don't fit with the established pretense behind the documents.

With all due respect - I believe you trying to deflect the discussion at hand. Do you not read the most recent posts before you hit the 'post' button???

Originally posted by Shawnna
And I must add that I am very surprised at the venom infused in Val's posts. What's up Val? Must be something really bothering you about this "Serpo Story" as I've not seen you react with such anger.


[edit on 4-2-2006 by Shawnna]

Yes, there is. And I have no problem stating outright what it is. When the Serpo story became public there were many things about it that were of extreme interest. But then something happened in the 3rd week of December. A combination of very disturbing events.

Bill Ryan, Rick Doty and Richard Hoagland went on C2C and Richrad Hoagland stated information he should not have known because Anon1 had not made it public yet.

Victor received emails from Anon1 stating that the agency he was working for had suspended any access to the room where the documents were.

And then Victor received the last Anon submission he would get - the final submission received by Victor was NOT Anon1. Some one had taken over. There are multiple points of verification that this was not Anon1.

In steps Bill to his new position, and since that time the information being posted has curiously contradicted all of the information contained within posting 11 - the first Anonymous posting to be suspect. The first post that could be deemed "within the sphere of disinformation".

And while Bill was here assuring people he knew for certain of his source, he was refusing repeated efforts to establish the veracity of same. And he was telling all of us Victor was watching this thread. Victor was NOT watching this thread. He had no idea what Bill was saying here. He didn't know that Victor was here claiming to have verified his source against Victor's. Bill just stated a few posts back that Victor had nothing to compare to on the IP issue - he knows that is not true! Victor has repeatedly attempted to validate.

Yeah, there's some things here that upset me. It's called dishonesty.