Project Serpo: Postings by "Anonymous" -- Breaking news?

Undeveloped Premise

Originally posted by HokkaidoHillbilly
Hell...who knows? Maybe it's the Eben's massive sundial / "We don't need no steenking clocks" type o' dealio?

You know what would really help?

Some pictures.

At this point, it's painfully obvious that "Anonymous" is stringing along whoever's still buying into this -- a rapidly diminishing and endangered species.

Ironically, the real loser in all this is Anonymous, because this isn't the kind of thing anyone with something useful to offer the world bothers with.

It's just sad.

My message to Anonymous, and I know you're reading this, is that it's not too late to turn away from the Dark Side.

The ultimate victim of your dishonesty is yourself.

Just sayin'.

Just to update everyone. Now Bill's emailing Victor asking for Victor's IP information for confirmation. I replied to everybody on the CC list and said

VICTOR DON'T DO IT! If he wants confirmation he can supply you with HIS IP address.

What a sticky wicket we have now.

Originally posted by Majic
At this point, it's painfully obvious that "Anonymous" is stringing along whoever's still buying into this -- a rapidly diminishing and endangered species.

not enough posts or attention over the last 24 hours so someone needed to get the paper and pencil out and draw up some shapes so that the ego of the hoaxer could be stroked with a few more days of attention.

sadly, I'm adding to it again but it is maddening to me that people are still debating the veracity of this stuff and trying to find more holes.

the mysterious math involved with the 12 crew members morphing into 13 is going to be fixed when the final book is written I'm sure.

I'm still trying to figure out how you can get a drawing in a word document and then scan and bring out the invisible, erased hand drawings off of a paint drawing.

I'll have to go practice that technique.

Well we know that the drawing could be ANYTHING...

The base bracket of a smoke detector?

A multi-actuator tri-directioal fluid control valve?

.....not that much to work with now is it?

Originally posted by ep03
Well we know that the drawing could be ANYTHING...

The base bracket of a smoke detector?

A multi-actuator tri-directioal fluid control valve?

.....not that much to work with now is it?

I completely concur. Although, it's quite the hoot to try and speculate what it's "supposed" to be.

You know, I thought it looked like a smoke detector bracket too, funny you mention that. The pear shaped things to look like holes you put nails through, and then push down on so that the head of the nail sets on part of the plastic.

-O

Addressing Down

Originally posted by Valhall
Yes, Bill, how was this sent to you? Was it sent snail mail? Email? If you finally got an email, do you think you might do a little IP checking now? Or are you going to continue to refuse?

Bill, I hope you can forgive Val for being a bit terse, but I'm sure you can appreciate how ATSers might be getting a bit impatient about this whole sideshow.

While some troubling questions remain unanswered regarding the background of Serpo, you have demonstrated extraordinary patience and candor throughout this ordeal, and I urge you not to falter at this crucial moment.

Getting to the bottom of all this necessarily requires examining the nature and credibility of the sources involved.

To the extent the effort to do so is aided, the truth may be uncovered.

To the extent the effort to do so is opposed, the truth may remain hidden.

It's past time for those involved in Serpo to come clean. Val's questions, while not necessarily the epitome of tact, are pertinent and important.

Please work with her and other ATSers to bring to light that which has remained hidden in this case and clarify that which has been clouded.

The truth is never complicated, only that which obscures it.

Do what's right.

Originally posted by Majic

While some troubling questions remain unanswered regarding the background of Serpo, you have demonstrated extraordinary patience and candor throughout this ordeal, and I urge you not to falter at this crucial moment.

Actually patience is not what Bill has lacked, nor is it what every one needs at this point. At this point, for the sake of people interested in Serpo, and for the sake of the Serpo Project itself, we just need a bit more honesty, and a lot less meaningless hype.

It's okay if Bill can't forgive me. That's not what I worried about in the first place.

IP Checking?

Checking the IP's is impossible and a complete waste of time. It's like analyzing the DNA fragments on a piece of currency as it's traveled the globe. If you'd like to spend another 10 pages of thread on this very topic, I'd be happy to explain the technical intracacies that make up the internet-at-large and we can go merrily down that path.

In fact, illustratively, let's all start with our hands raised. Thank you.

Now, keep your hands up if you know about

1. IP addressing, ARIN, InterNIC, IANA?
   
2. TCP Sequencing?
   
3. DNS record types including multiple mx's for a single mail host?
   
4. smtp commands and be able to use them in a telnet session?
   
5. deciphering the RFC 822 fields and determining if an identity compromise actually likely occured?
   

Now that we're down to several people on this thread, I'm going to (on a limb here) guess that you're not one of them. I am. I'd be more than willing to help, too. Except, as I just stated, it's a complete and utter waste of everyone's time. At least in my humble opinion.


Respectfully, let's move on to information quality and remove attempts to discredit Bill. Hell, I could discredit him on the basis of some inconsistent attempts at describing his technical situation. However, that's like a master mechanic asking a typical daily driver if they know how their rear main seal is supposed to replaced and with what tools? They're going to fumble at the minimum, and probably scramble for the details, like Bill seems to be on the technical questions we send him.

Here's a novel idea: attack the complete information stream, and not the provider of the information.

I mean, c'mon for Chrissake -- let the guy go on the technical issues and start attacking the data and the information. I'm about to post how that picture looks like the tracing of a smoke detector backplate.





[edit on 4-2-2006 by NextLevel]

Victor has just come up with the ultimate of answers for this IP situation. A close confidante already has pre-posting 11 IP information and posting 11 IP information that was supplied to him from Victor. Victor has just requested that Bill forward his first Anon email and his most recent Anon email to this person (whom they both know and Victor states both trust) so that he can compare the IPs!

We are now getting some where.

...it's quite the hoot to try and speculate what it's "supposed" to be.

Well said Big O. Hey it's something to do on a day off when it's blizzarding outside and there's nothing else to do, right. Why are so many of us getting so worked up over this? There're things that we can control and things that we can't, and the whole Serpo story is something that is nobody but anon can control, so for me, I'm just gonna sit back, have fun with it, and see where it takes us...something that I would suggest certain people on this list do as well.

Originally posted by HokkaidoHillbilly

...it's quite the hoot to try and speculate what it's "supposed" to be.

Well said Big O. Hey it's something to do on a day off when it's blizzarding outside and there's nothing else to do, right. Why are so many of us getting so worked up over this? There're things that we can control and things that we can't, and the whole Serpo story is something that is nobody but anon can control, so for me, I'm just gonna sit back, have fun with it, and see where it takes us...something that I would suggest certain people on this list do as well.

I'm in the same boat as you buddy.

I know that if I was posting stuff and someone asked me to verify IPs, I'd have no idea how to do that.

As a matter of fact, I was thinking to myself "how does one look up IPs based on e-mails?"

I was hoping someone would explain it. Then, Next Level start too, I got all excited, put my hand down, and then....nothing. Big bummer.

Sometimes it's best to just accept what people who know what they're talking about are saying.

Me? I'm a writer, so I can dig the angle we're talking about in regard to the "present" tense being used in the diary entries. However, no one else seems much interested in it, so maybe there'll be more about it when I check in the morning.

-O

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
Valhall, this is correct. I explained that just now. I don't have any information about the IP addresses of Victor's Anonymous. Victor will confirm that he had never shared those with me.

But I've never said that either. I've never said I've confirmed anything about the IP addresses. I don't know what Victor's Anonymous's IP addresses are. All his e-mails have been deleted by his Web TV system. I explained that just now.

Valhall, All:

I need to make a clear statement.

I do not know who Anonymous is. I have an e-mail address, and I have a first name. The e-mail address and the first name I know are the same as those of "Victor's Anonymous". Beyond that, I do not know any more.

I will not reveal that name or any e-mail details.

I have not spoken with him. I have not met him. I do not even know if it is a "him".

I believe firmly that attempting to "out" Anonymous is not the right thing to do. I will not co-operate with anyone who intends to do that. I believe I've said that several times before.

I will protect his identity because that is what he wants. If he'd wanted his name to be known, then he'd have told us.

Best, Bill

Originally posted by NextLevel
Uh ... this is really a good analysis. Anyone else wanna comment?

Yeah, my sentiments exactly. The best and clearest written piece of analysis I have seen on this thread. Dog green you are a pro for sure. It slides in nicely with all the nonsense logic used by the amateur author of the piece. Now we have two levels of critical debunking on the written document itself and both sets of analysis point to a bit of a fraudulant situation here.

But Shaunna and Valhal are in charge tonight and personally I don't want to mess with the ladies. Valhal, you go girl!! FYI, Valhal, I asked these exact questions of Bill, I think four or five days ago and his answer was a complete blow off, so thats when I decided he was in on it, but I did not want to say anything, but that is just my fricking opinion.

Now back to the touchy feely nice stuff.

(Nextlevel, take a lesson from and older and more experienced dark force, such as myself, and note that I used only one smilie and it wasn't one of those phuffy animated walmart thingies. But alas I too have used the walmart thingies but I regret it sincerely. Hey mod, how bout some nasty alien freaky smilies?).

Oh yeah, one other thing, if the keyhole designs on the drawing are for hooking on a belt, they all have to be facing the same direction with the narrow part up. (I'm a designr n' enginer)

Originally posted by SKMDC1

Interesting, but I don't see it.

Please describe this a bit more.

I don't know what Ron's Org is, or how that box relates to what we're talking about.

-O

Originally posted by The Big O
Interesting, but I don't see it.

Please describe this a bit more.

I don't know what Ron's Org is, or how that box relates to what we're talking about.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Bill Ryan


I believe firmly that attempting to "out" Anonymous is not the right thing to do. I will not co-operate with anyone who intends to do that. I believe I've said that several times before.

I will protect his identity because that is what he wants. If he'd wanted his name to be known, then he'd have told us.

Best, Bill

Nice try, Bill. And I mean what I'm about to say with all my heart (or thumping gizzard which ever is found I am in possession of at the end of my days)...who the hell mentioned outing Anon?. I've got news for you, I know where he lives and where he works. And I didn't even want to know that much. So stop trying to divert. This isn't about "outing anon". This is about making darned sure you do what you should have already done and that is

vet your source by all means possible. Which you pretended you had done, but actually refused to do. So we're on the right track now. But please don't waste your fingers trying to turn this to something it's not.

Originally posted by The Big O

Sometimes it's best to just accept what people who know what they're talking about are saying.

Please don't. I hated to write that, because I sound like an arrogant sob. But the truth is, I really can explain most if not all of this technical jib-jab to anyone. I'd prefer to do it where-ever, when-ever, but I have a gnawing feeling I'm going to be disciplined for that little outburst of mine. Oh well.

And please don't take my word for it! I'm sure we have a handful of computer nerds here also that can attest for what I'm saying. IP 'tracing' is a misnomer, and completely misleading. It's as if I say to you you can identify what person used a payphone to call you without further data identifing that caller, like a voiceprint (which can also be faked), etc. It just really is absurd to describe "IP TRACING!!!" [wave hands wildly] as an end-all be-all to getting to the bottom of Bill's credibility -- which is what I see this is, plain and simple. But, that's fine too. I'm out of the discussion at this point -- I've shot my load and I'm through trying to make people listen, unless I'm asked specifically.

Originally posted by The Big O
Me? I'm a writer, so I can dig the angle we're talking about in regard to the "present" tense being used in the diary entries. However, no one else seems much interested in it, so maybe there'll be more about it when I check in the morning.

-O

I'm actually VERY interested in the analysis provided about the diary entries. I cannot wait to hear more about that. That's actually the most forensic style information we've had to chew on in a while and it's refreshing.

The one caveat is the old psychology demonstration wherein a professor starts a story, and it's whispered from ear to ear around a circle and what started out as "Serpo has Ebens" transmogrifies into "Slurpees are really cold! News at Eleven!" My fear is that, absent the actual 3000 page report for the scrutiny of masses, we'll continue to degrade the output from Bill and in all fairness we should. But it's probably been translated too many times now (I've heard mention of voice, email, post, recording) and that's certainly one-too-many times for me to think it's going to be anywhere close to the written report.

Source Control

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
I believe firmly that attempting to "out" Anonymous is not the right thing to do. I will not co-operate with anyone who intends to do that. I believe I've said that several times before.

I don't think anyone is requiring that.

The key issue in this particular case is verifying that what you are receiving is indeed coming from "Anonymous" and not someone else.

I hope you can appreciate the importance of at least verifying that all this information isn't coming from some random yobbo who wants to put words in the mouth of "Anonymous".

While I would prefer true disclosure, it is possible to help Val and other ATSers track down these discrepancies without compromising the confidentiality of your source.

It looks like Victor may be able to help with this -- without revealing the IP of Anonymous to ATS.

That's much better than not even knowing if we're dealing with the same source!