Indian Air Force : News, Pics and Discussion thread

Originally posted by IAF101
I think one thing both of you are not considering is the long term certainty of these products. If the Europeans or the Americans get the contract the Indians would have to play ball their way to keep all those planes flying but with the russians, they dont need to do anything except pay them and maybe not interfere in chechneya. The Europeans and the US would expect India to follow the Western path on international policy and given the Indian track record they arent likely to play that game for very long.

France and the UK have been reliable defence suppliers. The US had imposed sanctions on India from 1998 to 2001. However, France and UK ( & Russia ofcourse) did not impose sanctions and did not curtail spares and supplies to India.

US sanctions had a horrid effect on the LCA programme which used GE engines...the same is true for a few space projects.

However, Unkil has strangely offered India everything from its Nuclear technology to Aegis radars to PAC-3's to AESA radars to Apache's and what not.

It is for this purpose more than anything thay complete Tech Transfer and 100% production of every part in India is a compulsory thing.

Even if the Super Hornet or the F-16 is bought, because of the ToT and Deep Liscence ... India will not have to be reliant on the supplier for spares and can produce them by itself.

Read the article about the Mig-29K's ... you'll notice this part.

The Indians are known to be unpredictable/uncontrollable

The above statement is least bit applicable for India ... it is infact the definition of American foreign policy over the years....it is very apt for America .. take a look >> 1982-1989 : did everything for china, even cleared F-16 for sale to china, even designed a new airplane called super-7 for china.

The in 1989 relations were terminated.

1983 : F-16's sold to Pakistan...this triggers arms race. In 1994 .. F-16 spare parts embargoed ... 1999 > embargo on pakistan; 2002 >pakistan becomes this big "ally"

Iran is another example..

2005 : China becomes fearfully powerful ... US sucks upto India offering all its whistles and bells .... cites democracy as a reason for partnership ... when India has been democratic for the last 58 years ( and this is the same democracy to bomb which US had provided pakistan F-16's, stingers, P-3C's, and what not ? all this while)


Russia, France, Israel and the UK have been constant and conistant suppliers and age old freinds of India and only these 3 can be deemed trustworthy.

The US is most surely only a "fair weather friend".


[edit on 7-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by waynos
You have a point there but whats with this need to 'control' foreign powers?

Its not only the US, evern the Europeans are doing it. The Europeans arent as demanding as the US I agree but they are still very rigid on some issues like when the Indians did their nuclear tests. Also the Iran issue in the IAEA has the Indian government in quiet a spot with the US and Europe pulling a lot of strings.
The US always wants to know where a nation stands and nobody can really enjoy an relation of trust with the US unless the US knows where they stand when the cr@p starts flying.
The Iran post belongs to a different context.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Even if the Super Hornet or the F-16 is bought, because of the ToT and Deep Liscence ... India will not have to be reliant on the supplier for spares and can produce them by itself.

I knew that part, but that is merely fine on paper and in actuallity it would take India many years to be able to produce all that the need to service and manufacture the Hornet. This is gives the US some hold on India without which India would lose a lot of money. It will be invaluable for India but that will give the US some hold on India for some time to come. Also the US hopes to take some of the market away from Russia. Take for example the F-14's that the US gave to the Iranians, they still rot in some Iranians airfield or might have been sold as scrap, not one of them took flight!
The US-India nuke deal is frankly very obviously a sort of control, the Indians open up their nuke plants to IAEA and give them access while the US gives more civilian nuclear tech and supplies Uranium. Sounds over the top to me that the US would go so far but I have a suspicion that the US is using this opportunity to get the Indians again under some sort of regulation.

Thats the whole point. They use countries. They needed china againest the soviet union. when the soviet threat was gone they turned on china. What will happen to india?.

Anyway what will russia think.?

did everything for china, even cleared F-16 for sale to china, even designed a new airplane called super-7 for china.

China never asked for F-16s nor did they want them. Only the AN/APG-66 radar. The radar was intended for the J-8II program which later was offered a radar from russia of similar performace

China designed the Super-7 and the americans were going to supply the avonics and engine. It was intended as a upgrade program for the Mig-21 which is now turing into a new aircraft

Originally posted by IAF101
Take for example the F-14's that the US gave to the Iranians, they still rot in some Iranians airfield or might have been sold as scrap, not one of them took flight!

That is totally not true - as most of them are still flying today ; using IIRC russian avionics , copies (sorry reverse engineered to make sure theres no stolen iranian tech) of the Phoenix and most likely russian engines as well.


But they still work.

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Harlequin]

More on new gen Russian A2G munitions ...

India is expected to be customer for the new KAB-500S Glonass/Navstar-guided bomb, state trials of which are nearing a successful conclusion, according to reports in the Russian press. The bomb was first dropped in February 2000, but it took five years to overcome all of the technical problems.

Russia's new KAB-500S bombs are to be introduced to units operating the Su-27SM, Su-34 (shown here), and the PAK-FA future fighter. Interestingly, it was announced that Tu-160 bombers will also be armed with KAB-500S bombs, which means that the aircraft will have a dual role : tactical conventional attack, in addition to strategic nuclear deterrence.


Unlike the US Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), the KAB-500S is a newly built bomb, not a modification kit for existing bombs (as the JDAM is). The KB-500S has a warhead equivalent to 500-kg high-explosive bomb. The new weapon was integrated by OAO MKB Kompas (Moscow, Russia), a design bureau and research institute. The same company developed the PSN-2001 receiver (PSN – Pribor Sputnikovoi Navigatsi, or a device for satellite navigation) that is mounted internally in the bomb and uses two separate antenna systems. The 24-channel PSN-2001 receiver can cooperate with Glonass or Navstar satellites and has an automatic switch from one system to another. The bomb can be dropped from altitudes between 500 m and 10,000 m at speeds of 550-1,100 kmph. The hit accuracy is claimed to be within 5-10 m.

link

____

Russia is currently testing a new laser-guided bomb, the KAB-250L , which is similar in appearance and in characteristics to the US GBU-12 Paveway II LGB.

It has the same seeker as the KAB-500L/KAB-1500L (for a detailed description of these, see below), though in a modernized form. The bomb is controlled by front all-moving surfaces, while the tails are fixed. It is designed for export, as well as for domestic use.

___-

It was recently revealed that Russia is testing a new gliding guided bomb.

The UPAB-1500KR ("izdyelye K-070" or "product K-070") is the first Russian gliding bomb. It was based on the KAB-1500KR guided bomb, with folded wings added to achieve a gliding capability. According to Russian sources, the range of UPAB-1500KR is 50-70 km, when dropped from high altitude and at high speed. The target picture is transmitted from a datalink on the bomb and received by the Raduga (Moscow, Russia) APK-8 datalink pod attached to the fuselage of the host aircraft. When the bomb nears its target, the aircrew marks the target, and the bomb is then attacking it independently, at which point it is locked onto the target.

link


[edit on 8-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

India to share its Central Asian Air Force base with Russia

India and Russia are likely to share the Aini airbase in Tajikistan, which is being modernised by Indian Air Force technical personnel.

"Russia is interested in stationing its helicopter gunships and air force squadrons at Aini airbase. Talks are underway with the government of Tajikistan," Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov here said last night after his meeting with Indian National Security Advisor (NSA) M.K. Narayanan. Under an agreement with the government of Tajikistan, IAF is modernising the Aini airbase near the Tajik capital Dushanbe.

full article >>

India to make 50-seater passenger aircraft

India has begun work on developing a 50-seater passenger aircraft, capable of landing and taking off from short semi-prepared runways.
National Aerospace Laboratories, a Bangalore-based CSIR laboratory, which developed the 14-seater Saras aircraft, has been mandated to build the new indigenous passenger airplane.

"The 50-seater aircraft would be powered by a turbo-prop engine. Our team has almost completed the design studies and soon it will be submitted to government for approval and sooner allocation of funds," NAL adviser Dr Kota Harinarayana said in Mumbai.

Harinarayana, who has been tasked with the new civilian airplane project, had led India's most ambitious national project, Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas), starting from the design studies to the successful flights of the first two technology demonstrators.

"We need more turbo-pros so that we can connect a lot of unconnected airports across the country, which are having semi-prepared or short runways" he said.

According to Tulouse-based ATR, which holds 75 per cent market share in the 50 to 70-seater regional turbo-prop aircraft section in India, the country is a lucrative market for 20 to 90-seater aircraft because of expanding coverage on the domestic feeder routes and the growing clout of low-cost carriers and also due to cruising fuel prices.After the completion of development, test flights and required number of testing hours, NAL is planning to hand over the series production of the aircraft either to the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) or some private industries. Referring to Saras, Harinarayana said NAL was developing the second prototype of the aircraft, which will be taken in to the skies by the middle of next year.

Full article >>

The US is now dangling the bait of spin-offs from its futuristic fifth-generation fighter programmes if its F-16 'Falcons' and F/A-18 'Super Hornets' bag India's lucrative $9 billion project to acquire 126 multi-role combat aircraft.

Another sweetener in the US offer is to help make India "a regional hub" in Asia for the production and maintenance of American-origin fighters being operated by other countries.

India, on its part, has shown interest in getting a technical presentation on the ongoing American-led F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) project.

"The presentation will probably take place when US Defence Security Cooperation Agency director Lt-Gen Jeffery Kohler visits India again in March 2006. India requested it during the Indo-US Defence Policy Group meeting in Washington on November 21-23," said a US embassy official on Friday. Since the IAF contract for 126 fighters will involve technology transfer and licensed production in India, the US says the massive project will benefit from spin-offs from its F/A-22 'Raptor' and JSF programmes.

The newly-operational 'Raptor' is billed as the world's most-technically advanced fighter. It's certainly expensive at $258 million a plane, five to six times the cost of a F-16. The spin-offs to India, as Lt-Gen Kohler recently indicated, may include the latest American AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar, which make fighters less vulnerable and more lethal.

Full article >>

[edit on 12-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Russia offers to trade India's old Mig-25's with new Mig-31's

RSK MiG has India to exchange its small fleets of MiG-25s for new MiG-31 interceptors in buy-back deals that would support the design bureau’s bid to extend MiG-25 operations for Libya and Syria.

RSK MiG says it is offering two MiG-25 users a trade-in deal that would enable them to acquire new-build MiG-31s to be produced at Sokol’s Nizhny Novgorod plant in exchange for their ageing MiG-25s. The offer is believed to have been made to Algeria and India, which are expected to withdraw their entire MiG-25R/U fleets within the next three to five years. Should the countries accept the offer, their MiG-25s will be disassembled and used as spare parts to sustain Libyan and Syrian aircraft.

Full article >>

The Indian Mig-25's moment of glory .... as F-16's watch helplessly ....

Article from Air Power International By Peter Steinemann :

In May 1997, an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public.

The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

Full article >>

___

More on the IAF's Mig-25's >> link

With an inventory of 10 MiG-25R and 2 MiG-25U, they form the No.102 Trisonics Squadron at Bareilly AFB. An indigenous life extension on the MiG-25 is being studied and reportedly the IAF has received preliminary good results.

IAF Mig-25's :

external image

external image

[edit on 13-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

India all set to acquire the latest "Crystal Maze" stand off missiles from Israel

JERUSALEM, DECEMBER 12: India is on the verge of acquiring a long-range weapon with Israel scheduled to deliver the 100-km range air to surface stand-off Crystal Maze missile next month.

Manufactured by Rafael, the Crystal Maze is similar to the Popeye all-weather bunker busting missile that is launched from an aircraft to destroy command and control centers, enemy bunkers and even militant training camps from a distance of 80-100 kilometres.

The TV-guided missile, which has a 80 kg warhead, is highly accurate with an error range within three metres.

The acquisition of Crystal Maze missile is extremely significant for Indian offensive capabilities. For the first time, the IAF will have an air-to-surface launched cruise missile that can be fired from an aircraft. The present Indo-Russian supersonic cruise missile, Brahmos is essentially an anti-ship cruise missile and it is very difficult for the bulky missile to be mounted on an aircraft.

Essentially, the missile is launched from a multi-role aircraft like the Mirage that climbs up to height of over 40,000 feet and uses litening pods (Israeli made binocular devices for all-weather targeting) to fix the target from a distance of over 80 km. The missile is launched after target identification.

New Delhi is also looking to acquire Delilah II anti-radiation drone with missile firing capability and Penetration-500 bombs that have the capability to take out runways, radars and concrete bunkers.

The long-range Delilah II drone, akin to US’ Predator used in Afghanistan, has the capability of hanging around (called loiter capability) the target and then hone in at an appropriate time to destroy it.

Full article >>

Here's something on the Eurofighter's radar .... relative to the RB2E ...

The RBE2 radar had been in development since 1989. It was decided that the radar would receive a new phased-array antenna with full electronic scan, instead of the electro-mechanical scan employed by the Eurofighter Typhoon's Captor radar. Initially, the radar received a passive phased-array antenna, but ultimately an active electronically scanned array (AESA) will be fitted. According to French Ministry of Defense (MoD) sources, the RBE2 radar has a modest range about 100 km against fighter aircraft, but it operates in a low-probability-of-intercept (LPI) mode and is resistant to deception jamming. The Typhoon's Captor has a range of 160 km against fighters but is considered more prone to jamming and can track fewer targets. The French Air Force accepted the penalty in range reduction for the benefits of LPI and other characteristics. Moreover, in network-centric operations, a common air picture will be transmitted via the Multifunctional Information Distribution System (MIDS) to the Rafale, enabling the aircraft to make use of off-board sensors.

from the full version of this link (use the 14 day free acess for the full article .... it's a great read)

Russia offers TU-22M3 strategic bombers to India
URL: www.india-defence.com...
Date: 8/12/2005
Agency: PTI
Topics: india russia defense

Moscow: Russia has offered to sell several long-range Tupolev Tu-22M3 bombers to India, Russian Vice Premier and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov said on Wednesday.

He said the offer was made to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during talks in Moscow but India has not yet responded.

"We made the offer to the Indian side when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was here. The Indian side has not yet come back to us on the issue, and it would be impossible also to take a decision within 24 hours," Ivanov was quoted as saying.

Ivanov said that India had earlier considered leasing the bombers but due to "technical reasons" Moscow is unable to lease the aircrafts.

The leasing of up to three long-range TU-22M3 (Backfire-C) bombers was part of the aircraft carrier 'Admiral Gorshkov' package, which also included leasing two Shchuka-B (Akula class) nuclear submarines currently under construction at Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard.

Ivanov underscored that Tu-22M3 is "not a strategic" weapon as it has a range of up to 7,000 kilometres. The bomber capable of carrying 3 Kh-22 cruise missiles is the main bomber of the Russian Air Force and Navy.

Talks for leasing three Tu-22M3 bombers were on since last five years in a package with the acquisition of the Gorshkov aircraft carrier, diplomatic sources said.

BANGALORE, DEC 16 (PTI)
India and Russia have pumped in USD 50 million to develop an aircraft version of supersonic cruise missile BrahMos, according to a top official of the joint venture.

"Development for the aircraft version is a new initiative... Which was not originally contemplated. Towards that we have added USD 50 million in the company as investment from both India and Russia," CEO and MD of BrahMos Aerospace A Sivathanu Pillai told PTI here today.

Pillai said the Indian Air Force(IAF) would integrate the missile with Sukhoi-30 fighters.

"We have now completed the feasibility study for integrating the BrahMos with Sukhoi-30 for Air Force. They have accepted the report and now we are in the process of making certain changes in the missile which will suit its integration with the Sukhoi... And 2007 is the target date for flying in the aircraft," he said.

The missile system was being inducted by the Indian Navy, Pillai said adding some trials have been conducted for the Army too.

Essentially an anti-ship missile, the BrahMos cruise missile has a striking range of 290 kms and a speed of Mach 3.

He said being the best anti-ship missile in the world today, BrahMos has attracted the interest of many countries."There are countries who are very keen to have the BrahMos system. We are in discussion with them," Pillai said.

Full article >>


The BrahMos triad from air, land and sea :


The BrahMos trijectory :


The BrahMos on the MKI :

Advantages
. Long flight range with supersonic speed all through the flight
. Shorter flight times leading to lower target dispersion and quicker engagement
. Varieties of flight trajectories
. ‘Fire and forget’ principle of operation
. Higher destructive capability aided by the large kinetic energy of impact
. Higher effectiveness against ship defences
. Canister for transportation, storage and launch

Superiority of the BRAHMOS Supersonic Anti-ship Missile over a Subsonic Long Range Anti-ship Missile

In Velocity by 3 times
In flight range by 2.5 - 3 times
In seeker range by 3 - 4 times

link


[edit on 16-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

All systems are ready ... the first production Tejas will roll out in June 2006.

Link



___

The LCA's FCS systems are up to the standard of the Eurofighter, and is much more advanced than the Rafale, the Gripen the Mirage-2000-5 and the F-16 block 50.

The LCA and the Eurofighter have a fully digital quadruplex fly by wire systems that gives them care free handleing ... the Rafale, Gripen and the F-16 block 50 have 3 digital and 1 analog systems...while the Mirage 2000-5 has all its four FBW systems as analog.

More on the LCA's FCS > architecture, FBW actuators, etc .. (click on link below the thumbnails)


Click here for larger pic



Click here for larger pic


Click here for larger pic

First of all I will like to praise you for your enthucism to make others feel that India today is NOT a country full of :
1poor beggars who get glued down to foreigners(be it American European or Russian) ,
2 people answering to call of nature beside the railway lines
3 and the socalled Educated class trying their best to fetch a US/UK visa ....Rather you want to prove that today India is a country with something of world standard ........Well today Indian guys like you are quite frequent in all the international forums around to world ...Trying their best to hide their poverty ......and at the same time you guys are lucky due to the fact that third world countries like India are NOT YET IMPORTANT ENOUGH for the international community to be CONSIDERED ...and thus you go on with your uninformative posts to make India look better.....When someone tells somethig good about Ex Communist countries like Russia-they are counter criticized Because such countries are stiil important enough to be considered But luckyly for you Indians....... India is not...

Now lets come to the point
Throughout the thread you have tried to prove that India is doing well as far as airforce is concerned ....you even go upto the point proclaiming that Indian Pilots /Airforce is better than Ours (i mean US)
you are lucky enough that the posters out here in this forum are not aware of the real situation of Indian Airforce ...so let me put some light:

1 uptil date the Indian Airforce has NEVER had an impressive record in some REAL BATTLE ......the Indian airforce saw a few battle with the Paks in all those battles the indians were better equipped than the paks still the Indian AF were subdued by the Paks (Ind AF had more casualties more afircraft losses etc)...And war with China is somethig which any Indian will prefer to forget

2 The last Kargil war was the proof of the condition of the Indian Airforce ...the Indians launched Operation Vijay to clear Pakistan aided invaders in Indian KashMir ...Atfirst the AirForce was called but in the following day ,2 indian birds (I think they were Migs/Mirage) were grounded by the militants using simple ground missiles ....one of the pilots were dead (I think his name was Ajay ahuja) the other was captured to Pakistan and was released a short while later due to request from the Indian Side ...the next day an IAF helicopter was grounded and all these (altough 3 but LARGE enough for a poor country like India ) forced the defense ministry to stop the airforces to participate in the kargil war ....as a result such a decision the Indian army was forced to carry out the battle single handed which resulted to almost 10:1 (Indian army: Militants ) losses for the army.......Indian Air force again became worthless when it was really needed

3 Any local news in India will give you an information that each month India looses almost 3 to 4 aircrafts due to crashes ......Indians were quick to blame it on Old Russian Migs to hide their own mistakes ...but after Investigations etc it was revealed (and declared by the indian Defence minster )that 90% of the Plane crashes were NOT DUE TO the malfunctioning of the Russian /French Birds rather it was due to the PILOT'S MISTAKES such reports again prove my claim about the poor condition of the Indian Air force

4 the LCA which is today viewed by indians like stealth spy to be india's pride was to be supplied to Indian air force back in the 90s then they delayed it to 2000 ...and now perhaps to 2007(although it dosent have a functioning engine yet) ...even if they can develop the LCA by 2007 will take atleast 2015 for them to be serially produced and function in the air force...but by 2015 the LCA will be an obsolete design ...so the LCA is basically a Flop Project by the indians ....but to my utter surprise I see Indians being proud of the LCA...

5 other aircrafts? moon ? forget they are just propaganda the indian politico to make the public feel that they are developing .............I can Bet they are not going to happen within 30 years ...having lived in India for 2 years i m quite familiar with how things works in India ...India is yet to Produce a much needed ADVANCED trainer for her airforce

...and these guys out here dare to compare India with us ....forget USA ...it will take 200 years for india to reach the position where Junk states like Russia is today ...In India about 50% of the population are officially illeterate (from my experience I can say that the real % of illeteracy is more than 70%) , public health is nothing better than rubbish, its a country where issues like caste ,religion Etc still make people fight with each other ...some improvements have been made in outsourcing services from the developed world for Cheap labour ...

but having witnessed the conditions in India I can say that its 200 years early to compare a DevelopING country like India with less "developED" countries like the Ex communist sates (eg Ukraine , Russia , Hungary , Poland etc )...being something close to USA is rather a dream for India (I have personally visited all the countries listed here )

with due respect to Indians for their great Ancient culture I want to say that I personally dont have any hatered towards Indians I just dont like the way in which some of the Indians like stealth spy in this forum tries to make a feeling that india is something to be considered as far as technology is concerned ...

Indian Military is basically NOTHING without Russian Help




[edit on 22-12-2005 by McLaden]

You seem to have an attitude problem McLaden...Whats the point in coming to Indian Air force news folder and writing such a long reply, when u r not intersted at all...That shows what type of a pathetic loser you are....rest of ur reply is not even worth reading and responding to.

Coming back to the main thread, anything new abt the LCA..Read somewhere that its facing from funding problems.

Actually I agree with you McLaden, a quick history course shows how governments inflate their armies potential into great unrealistic extents.

I don't want to dismiss India, but I seriously doubt that they can leapfrog every developed country and become a superpower.

Mcladen post remembers me Hans Christian Andersen tale, The Emperors New Dress, you might see that IAF as a shiny, powerful AF but in reality it seems that is as naked as the emperor.

Heard of the HAL Marut? Nice smooth airframe, Heard it was based on a Messerscmit jet fighter concept.

www.bharat-rakshak.com...
www.bharat-rakshak.com...
luft46.com...

Originally posted by McLaden
First of all I will like to praise you for your enthucism to make others feel that India today is NOT a country full of :
1poor beggars who get glued down to foreigners(be it American European or Russian) ,
2 people answering to call of nature beside the railway lines
3 and the socalled Educated class trying their best to fetch a US/UK visa ....Rather you want to prove that today India is a country with something of world standard ........Well today Indian guys like you are quite frequent in all the international forums around to world ...Trying their best to hide their poverty ......and at the same time you guys are lucky due to the fact that third world countries like India are NOT YET IMPORTANT ENOUGH for the international community to be CONSIDERED ...and thus you go on with your uninformative posts to make India look better.....When someone tells somethig good about Ex Communist countries like Russia-they are counter criticized Because such countries are stiil important enough to be considered But luckyly for you Indians....... India is not...

It is no secret that India has about 19% of its population living in poverty. However it is also true that poverty is being wiped out at a rate faster than ever before.

The very fact that you have brought unrelated social issues on an airplane ducussion forum shows your comprehension standard.

Your Lahori Logic biwilders me.

Now lets come to the point
Throughout the thread you have tried to prove that India is doing well as far as airforce is concerned ....you even go upto the point proclaiming that Indian Pilots /Airforce is better than Ours (i mean US)

Only an "ORACLE" would interpret things in such an oracular manner. I have never claimed Indian pilots are better or have never compared them with other pilots. Your claim that i have done so "throughout the thread" only highlights your madrassa standard of comprehension.

1 uptil date the Indian Airforce has NEVER had an impressive record in some REAL BATTLE

Another classic oracular statemnet coming from a perfect oracle. It appears that you have no clue about this whatsoever. The Indian Air Force's aerial offensive was one of the reasons Pakistan signed the Instrument of Surrender in the 1971 war.

Educate yourself :

India's victory in the 1971 war and the IAF's role

IAF kills in the victorious 1965 war

Indian Air Force Combat Kills UN Ops in Congo 1961

2 The last Kargil war was the proof of the condition of the Indian Airforce ...the Indians launched Operation Vijay to clear Pakistan aided invaders in Indian KashMir ...Indian Air force again became worthless when it was really needed

How very uniformed can a guy get ?? The Kargil War in 1999 saw IAF play an important role. One instance that comes to mind is the Mirage-2000 drop a laser guided bomb on Tiger Hill that made it easier for ground troops to take back the hill.

Video showing PGM Attack on Enemy Tiger Hill HQ by IAF Mirage-2000H.

THE MIRAGE-2000 AT KARGIL by Philip Camp

The Mi-17's were also sucessful in wipeing out several Paki positions.

Targets destroyed by the IAF in the 1999 victorious Kargil war >>

Muntho Dhalo and PT 5096
Tharu
Padma Goh
Jubar
PT4388
PT5140 and 5060 (Tololing area)
Tiger Hill & MU4260
Drass area (MU4462, PT4700,4965,5405)
PT4355, MU4162
MU3663
MU3762
Nissan hut camp
PT4875

3 Any local news in India will give you an information that each month India looses almost 3 to 4 aircrafts due to crashes ......Indians were quick to blame it on Old Russian Migs to hide their own mistakes ...

Your coments on the Mig-21's only show that you are by far the "Personification of Ignorance". Some Mig-21's are over 3 decades old and have completed their airframe life. Delays in the LCA project have kept most Mig-21's operational. However most Mig-21's have been upgraded to bison standards now. In addition, the Mig-21 bisons proved their worth in the recent Cope-2004 air exercises, by outgunning even F-15's.

the LCA which is today viewed by indians like stealth spy to be india's pride was to be supplied to Indian air force back in the 90s then they delayed it to 2000 ...and now perhaps to 2007(although it dosent have a functioning engine yet) ...even if they can develop the LCA by 2007 will take atleast 2015 for them to be serially produced and function in the air force...but by 2015 the LCA will be an obsolete design ...so the LCA is basically a Flop Project by the indians ....but to my utter surprise I see Indians being proud of the LCA...

The only thing that is a "Flop" is your post. Your comments that the LCA does not have a functioning engine is self defeating-the GE F-404 works fine and has taken the LCA on several supersonic trips.

...and these guys out here dare to compare India with us

The only person that is comparing is you in your w** dreams.

Let me quote moose69 (f16.net), the USAF pilot who flew BFM against the Su-30MKI in Cope India 2005 : As for flying hours, one of the Flanker pilots told me openly that he gets about 200 hours a year in the front seat...Their higher ranking dudes fly in the back seat and act as Mission Commanders.
I would feel comfortable against the MKI only in BVR...the thing has thrust vectoring for crying out loud

Having flow in mixed formations now with all of their jets i would say that they are very capable and probably the best air force in Asia. Some of their planes are old but the skill of the IAF pilots make them hold their own. I do think that the Viper holds up very well with most of them, however, because we are downright hard to see and our maneuverability is awesome. Getting slow with some of these jets is not advised.

And when questioned on the capabilities of IAF pilots, Col Greg Newbech, USAF F-15 Team Leader (2004 CI) made the following remarks: -

- What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is, the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with best AF in the world.

- I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home.

- Indian hospitality from everyone has been truly overwhelming.

- The greatest compliment we heard from an IAF pilot – You American pilots are just like us, simply down to earth people.

- We depart India with great respect for the Indian Air Force. Your pilots, maint and support crew are exceptional professionals.

with due respect to Indians for their great Ancient culture I want to say that I personally dont have any hatered towards Indians I just dont like the way in which some of the Indians like stealth spy in this forum tries to make a feeling that india is something to be considered as far as technology is concerned

Clearly you have an axe to grind. However the only thing that is not being considered is you madrassa logic, baseless and untrue claims that you use to spew and spill your insanely ignorant crap, with an ulterior motive.

As hak correctly observed, if your a sadistic loser, and you are also the only person that is unworthy of being considered.

You'd make a great anti-India motivator for all the Pakistani jehadis waiting in the terror camps in PoK i must say.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]