Indian Air Force : News, Pics and Discussion thread

Another "hard to believe" article from an obscure source .... the website claims this is an "intelligence report"

Take this with more than a grain of salt..

Dassault warns pullout from warplane deal

6 December 2005: France’s Dassault Aviation has threatened to withdraw its bid from the proposed one-hundred-and-twenty-six multi-role combat aircraft deal unless the Indian defence ministry finalises the choice by 31 March 2006.

Blaming bureaucratic hurdles, Dassault says it would keep production lines of its aircraft offered to the IAF, the Mirage 2000-V, open for three years in case the deal goes through, otherwise, it would be inseparably committed to the French government’s joint-strike fighter programme for the air force and navy. (is that the Rafale

)

Top sources

said that the French government has approved Dassault’s stand, and added that without a quick decision, the aircraft price indicated in the request for proposal response would be scaled up.

In any case, the French have indicated a maximum production life of eighteen to twenty years for the Mirage 2000-V, whose technology would be entirely transferred, to meet IAF requirements, but the Indian defence ministry believes Dassault is employing pressure tactics to speed the deal, but it would be approved only in the normal course.

link

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Now .. getting to some local news ..

HAL, L&T plan JV to make aircraft parts
Agencies

Mumbai, Dec 5:State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) plans to float a joint venture company with engineering major Larsen and Toubro to make aircraft components.

"We are in discussion with L&T... They have submitted a proposal, and we are evaluating it... We want to have a memorandum of understanding first," HAL Managing Director AK Saxena said.

Both the companies plan to have a joint development of composites, parts, and components for aircraft. L&T wants to make major sub-assemblies for both airframe and aero-engines.

"A lot of orders are coming in, and we are seriously thinking about a major participation from the private sector industries, who are capable of delivering quality outputs," he said.

The Bangalore-based aircraft maker recently floated a 50:50 joint venture with French-aeroengine major Snecma for civilian aircraft engines. As per the understanding, HAL will manufacture compressor blades, while Snecma would provide forging and the machining would be done jointly, he said.

Referring to aircraft projects, Saxena said the company would commence limited series production of Intermediate Jet Trainer once they get a firm order from the Indian Air Force.

"We have already ordered for AL-551 higher-power engine from Russia. We developed two prototypes, which are undergoing operational trials," Saxena said.

Designed and developed by HAL, IJT will replace the Kiran basic jet trainer of the IAF starting from 2007-08. IJT would replace more than 200 Kiran aircraft including those 16, which forms the famed Suryakiran aerobatic team of the IAF.

"We have completed the design studies and have agreed on all other formalities. India needs about 45 MTAs and we are just waiting for a firm commitment from the Russian side," he said, adding that both the companies would start the cargo version first with a capacity to ferry 18 to 20 tonnes.

HAL plans to fly the first prototype within 26 months after getting a formal approval from the government.

IAF wants 45 of these aircraft while the Russians were looking for 60 or more. Both the companies were looking for more than 100 orders to start the project to make it commercially viable.

Official sources said the project would be finalised during the Prime Minister's ongoing Russia visit.

full article >> www.centralchronicle.com...

Originally posted by waynos
If India wanted AESA equipped Typhoons it could have them, as that is included in the 'tranche 3 standard' spec which all Typhoons will adhere to even if the tranche 3 production run itself doesn't go ahead. (no decision taken at this time)

What is the present status of the AMSAR AESA ? ... there are no recent news reports on it as well ... and for the past year or so its gone into "stealth mode"

The present tranche 1's have almost no A2G capability ... when are the tranche 2's and 3's planned ?

Since the competition is throwing AESA radars with tech transfer, it would be hard to see an airplane with a mechanically scanned radar coming close to securing the tender.

The block-70 F-16 comes with the Northrop Grumman AN/APG-80 AESA
The block 2 F/A-18 comes with the Raytheon AN/APG-79 AESA
The Mig-35 will come with the Elta EL/M-2052 AESA or a Russian AESA
Even the Gripen offer comes with the impressive NORA.

check this out >>

[SIZE=3]NORA – ACTIVE ELECTRONICALLY SCANNED ARRAY[/SIZE]
Ericsson’s future airborne radar is Not Only a Radar, NORA

, but also a complete electronic warfare system including jamming and data communication. The new radar will use an Active Electronically Scanned Array, AESA, built up with approximately 1000 individual transmit/receive modules. The antenna, mounted on a single-axis platform, will give well over 200 degree coverage in azimuth. NORA will offer superior performance by virtue of a number of core capabilities at Ericsson – beam agility, beam widening, multi-channel processing, target-specific waveforms and low radar cross-section.

In addtion it also offers :
-High resolution air-to-air and air-to-ground modes
-Outstanding tracking performance
-Comprehensive ECCM
-High Reliability
-Full support for AMRAAM missiles
-Modular construction

[SIZE=3]MIDIS – MODULAR, MULTI-FUNCTIONAL DEFENSIVE INFORMATION SYSTEM[/SIZE]
A new dimension in electronic warfare: MIDIS is a highly modular and multi-functional defensive information system that meets the requirements for situation awareness, survivability and sensor fusion in tomorrow’s dense and complex signal environment. MIDIS introduces new principles for signal selection and adaptive processing allied with state-of-the-art technology of Ericsson’s in-house integrated Microwave MultiChip Modules (MMCM).


^^A new dimension in electronic warfare: MIDIS is a highly modular and multi-functional defensive information system.

[SIZE=3]MACS – MODULAR AIRBORNE COMPUTER SYSTEMS[/SIZE]
Developed for the Gripen fourth-generation multi-role fighter, the Ericsson MACS is a standardized, highly modular multiprocessor real-time computer concept designed for severe airborne environments with their real-time applications. MACS meets all the requirements for demanding airborne situations and provides:

- High real-time performance
- Modular functionality and performance
- Low weight, volume and power consumption
- High reliability


^^Developed for the Gripen fourth-generation multi-role fighter, the Ericsson MACS is a standardized, highly modular multiprocessor real-time computer concept designed for severe airborne environments with their real-time applications.

Here's a GREAT Gripen cutaway (1.5 MB jpg file !)

link

At this stage, even the Gripen offer seems to be more advanced than the Eurofighter one

AMSAR is currently in the testing stage, scheduled to run until 2008. How about answering my questions? You keep knocking the Typhoon without giving any facts whatsoever, just saying 'it doesn't seem that good' isn't really enough.

Originally posted by waynos
How about answering my questions? You keep knocking the Typhoon without giving any facts whatsoever, just saying 'it doesn't seem that good' isn't really enough.

My apologies for my rather poky language .... i really appreciate the Eurofighter greatly ... but i am not fully convinced about its dominating superiority as claimed and advertised. Here's why :

> Captor is Mechanically Scanned and is atleast 2 generations behind behind what the rest of the competing airplanes in the MRCA have to offer
> The TVC project for the EJ200 appears suspended. Even if the project is still on, it may not enter service (after all the testing, etc) in another 7 years. The Mig-35, Su-30 MKI feature 3D and 2D TVC alredy.
> Russians claims their new IRST - OLS 32 are the best in the world .. perhaps my arguments were a bit biased as well ... i take back my words about the pirate
> The Mig-35 will have (most likely) an avionics mix of the best of Russian, French, Isreali & Indian avionics...surely this is as good as the EF's
> The weapons that France, Russia and Israel (for the Mig-35) and America ( for F-16 and 18) are offering are better than those the EF will have.
> With 3D TVC surely the Mig-35 is more manuverable than the EF
> New Russian RAM's can significantly bring down the RCS of the Mig-35 to the EF's standard (that's what the guys at Mig say atleast)

Apart from the EJ-200's supercruise and excellent metallurgy technologies, there is nothing better or revolutionary that the Eurofighter has to offer (atleast it appears to me that way right now).

In addition, the Eurofighter's price tag is unjustified with reference to what it offers in the context of the competing airplanes and their price tag's.

Lastly, the export history of the Eurofighter in Singapore, Greece is also discouraging.

No offence intended. Cheers.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
> Captor is Mechanically Scanned and is atleast 2 generations behind behind what the rest of the competing airplanes in the MRCA have to offer

Why 2 generations? Clearly AESA types are more modern and more advanced, but that is only the actual scanner itself, the rest of the radar is no different on either type and I've not seen anything that says the technology of this radar is behind any other, much less '2 generations'. Particularly in the field of range, multiple target scanning and tracking, target prioritising etc.

> The TVC project for the EJ200 appears suspended. Even if the project is still on, it may not enter service (after all the testing, etc) in another 7 years. The Mig-35, Su-30 MKI feature 3D and 2D TVC alredy.

That is a fair point about the Russian fighters, but again I have seen no indication that the EJ200TVC development has been suspended. Besides exactly how relevant might that technology actually be in the face of 'off boresight' missiles and helmet mounted sights, where turning the plane itself is not such a big deal?

IF the Typhoons TVC upgrade has been suspended (and I say again I don't know if it has) then I would suspect something like that may be the reason. But yes, If India MUST have it then the Russians jets are the best bet. But if India MUST have it why are they then considering the F-16, 18 and Mirage 2000?

> Russians claims their new IRST - OLS 32 are the best in the world .. perhaps my arguments were a bit biased as well ... i take back my words about the pirate

OK

> The Mig-35 will have (most likely) an avionics mix of the best of Russian, French, Isreali & Indian avionics...surely this is as good as the EF's

Maybe it is, but even so, that doesn't make the Typhoons set up 'bad' or 'poor' does it? That sounds like 'if its not absolutely the best then it must be rubbish' when surely the worst you could say of it would really be that it 'is not a decisive factor'. However whether the rival systems are better, worse or as good can surely only be guesswork for us?

> The weapons that France, Russia and Israel (for the Mig-35) and America ( for F-16 and 18) are offering are better than those the EF will have.

Again, How do you know this? There is no US equivalent of the Meteor yet (though one is to be developed), the AIM9X is no 'better' than the ASRAAM, in its early guise the Typhoon uses US supplied AIM-120''s until the Meteor is ready. Much A2G ornance is either US supplied or developed jointly with France3 so that statement must surely be false?

ALARM? Storm Shadow? I suggest you think again.

> New Russian RAM's can significantly bring down the RCS of the Mig-35 to the EF's standard (that's what the guys at Mig say atleast)

So the Russians are aiming to get where the Typhoon is now? That makes them better? The RAF applied RAM to the Tornado fifteen years ago, things move on.

Apart from the EJ-200's supercruise and excellent metallurgy technologies, there is nothing better or revolutionary that the Eurofighter has to offer (atleast it appears to me that way right now).

In addition, the Eurofighter's price tag is unjustified with reference to what it offers in the context of the competing airplanes and their price tag's.

Lastly, the export history of the Eurofighter in Singapore, Greece is also discouraging.

So that fact that is has some things that the competition don't have doesn't count in its favour, while the things they offer that the Typhoon is getting too makes them superior?

That makes sense

Can't really argue about the price, it is quite an expensive machine, but I don't think its more expensive than the F-18, which it is superior to, and its extra expense over the F-16 and Mirage are justified in its far greater capability. The MiG 35 is a special case as Russian prices are artificially low and if cost was the overrriding factor then the MiG is what I would buy.

You can't seriously take Singapore and Greece inro consideration here as they were both political decisions (as Indeed India's choice might well turn out to be) and not related to aircraft performance at all. Greece is still buying the Typhoon don't forget, it just delayed the purchase and made an interin buy of F-16's, Austria has bought the Typhoon.

If decisions relied on who else has bought a plane, then nothing would ever saell as somebody always has to be first.

BTW, I took no offense at all at your earlier posts, I just wanted to open up the debate so I could tell what your views really were and I could answer them, as I have tried to here



[edit on 7-12-2005 by waynos]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

India May Buy Tu-22M3 Long-range Bombers that it has leased

Russia may offer India the purchase instead of lease of long-range Tu-22M3 bombers, an informed source in the defense industrial complex reported on Monday to Interfax-AVN.

“The corresponding offer, as is expected, will be made to India’s prime minister, Manmohan Singh, during his visit to Moscow,” he said.

According to the source, “India will be offered Tu-22M3 missile carriers from Russia’s air force existing fleet which will undergo pre-sales export preparation.”

Source: 05.12.05, Interfax

___

Tupolev TU-22M Backfire

Origin: USSR
Type: medium strategic bomber and maritime reconnaissance/attack aircraft
Max Speed: 1,147 kt / 1,321 mph
Max Range 4,000 km / 2,485 miles
Dimensions: span 34.30 m / 112 ft 6.5 in
length 39.60 m / 129 ft 11 in
height 10.80 m / 35 ft 5.25 in
Weight: max. take-off 130,000 kg / 286,596 lb
Powerplant: two 20000-kg (44,092-lb) afterburning thrust turbofans of unknown designation
Armament: two 23-mm GSh-23 two-barrel cannon in a radar-controlled tail barbette; provision for 12000 kg (26,455 Ib) of disposable stores, including nuclear weapons and free-fall bombs carried internally, or two AS-4 'Kitchen' missiles carried under the wings, or one AS-4 'Kitchen' missile carried semi-recessed into the lower fuselage, or up to three AS-6
Operators: India(2006), Russia, Ukraine
www.combataircraft.com...

Russia waits for India's response to bomber proposal

PAVEDNIKI (Moscow Region), December 7 (RIA Novosti) - India has not yet replied to Russia's proposal to sell the Tu-22-M3E Russian bomber, Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said Wednesday.

"The Indian side has not provided a reply since we made the proposal a day ago," Ivanov, who is also Russia's defense minister, told journalists.

Russia proposed that India buy the planes instead of leasing them. "Leasing won't work due to a number of technicalities," Ivanov said.

India and Russia have a long history of military cooperation. The two countries are currently working on contracts worth $10 billion. Notable deals in recent years include a contract for the modernization and sale of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier and deals on Sukhoi fighters and the T-90 battle tank.

In Tuesday's bilateral talks with President Vladimir Putin, the Indian prime minister said that the two countries were considering plans to build a multi-purpose transport plane and a fifth-generation fighter.

en.rian.ru...

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

MOSCOW, December 6 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has signed a contract with the Indian Navy to deliver 16 MiG-29K Fulcrum D fighters, a MiG official said Tuesday.

Addressing an international economic forum on Russia-India strategic cooperation in the 21st century, Mikhail Globenko, head of the company's regional marketing and sales department, said the fighters were equipped with special systems that had been developed and manufactured in India.

"It is important that the deal outlines the idea of setting up a consignment warehouse and a technological service center in India," Globenko said, adding that this move would help provide timely and uninterrupted supplies of spare parts to India.

"We intend to do the same for the planes that we supply to the Indian Air Force," he said.

Globenko also elaborated on the modernization plans for the MiG-29 for the Indian Air Force. Russia has supplied these planes to India since the 1980s, and the 650 planes represent the core of Indian combat aviation.

The program also envisages upgrading the MiG-29s to multipurpose planes.

Globenko said there was good potential for modernizing the MiG-27 Flogger. Upgraded to include a new AL-31F engine, the fighter will soon undergo test flights. The engine increases the fighter's capacity by 22%-27% and considerably improves its takeoff-landing and maneuver capabilities while preserving fuel.

Globenko said cooperation between MiG and India had been established more than 40 years ago and had been continuing smoothly since then. Globenko said MiG still considered its partnership with India to be strategically important.

en.rian.ru...

I guess these would replace Sea Harriers, yes?

Anyu thoughts on my reply about the Typhoon? You do change direction quite often in mid discussion.

Originally posted by waynos
Why 2 generations?

Well Modern radar generations proceed as : Mechanically scanned > Electronically scanned > Passive Elactronically scanned > Active Electonically Scanned

Clearly AESA types are more modern and more advanced, but that is only the actual scanner itself, the rest of the radar is no different on either type and I've not seen anything that says the technology of this radar is behind any other, much less '2 generations'. Particularly in the field of range, multiple target scanning and tracking, target prioritising etc.

The Captor is by far the best mechanically scanned radar there exists ( the LCA's MMR that flew a few days back is 2nd best imho)

Although the Captor has values of tracking range and the number of targets that can be engaged simentaneously compareable to phased array radars, it lacks the range, flexibility and tracking capability of AESA's.

For example : The Israeli Elta EL/M-2052 AESA can track 64 targets !!!

Check this out >>

An Active Electronically Steered Array (AESA) takes the concept of using an array antenna a step further. Instead of shifting the phase of signals from a single high power transmitter AESA employs a grid of hundreds of small "transmitter-receiver (TR)" modules that are linked together by high-speed processors.

Each TR module has its own transmitter, receiver, processing power, and a small spikelike radiator antenna on top. The TR module can be programmed to act as a transmitter, receiver, or radar. The TR modules in the AESA system can all work together to create a powerful radar, but they can do different tasks in parallel, with some operating together as a radar warning receiver, others operating together as a jammer, and the rest operating as a radar. TR modules can be reassigned to any role, with output power or receiver sensitivity of any one of the "subsystems" defined by such temporary associations proportional to the number of modules.

AESA provides 10-30 times more net radar capability plus significant advantages in the areas of range resolution, countermeasure resistance and flexibility. In addition, it supports high reliability / low maintenance goals, which translate into lower lifecycle costs. Since the power supplies, final power amplification and input receive amplification, are distributed, MTBF is significantly higher, 10-100 times, than that of a passive ESA or mechanical array. This results in higher system readiness and significant savings in terms of life cycle cost of a weapon system, especially a fighter.

The use of multiple TR modules also means failure of up to 10% of the TR modules in an AESA will not cause the loss of the antenna function, but merely degrade its performance. From a reliability and support perspective, this graceful degradation effect is invaluable. A radar which has lost several TR modules can continue to be operated until scheduled downtime is organized to swap the antenna.

kuku.sawf.org...

That is a fair point about the Russian fighters, but again I have seen no indication that the EJ200TVC development has been suspended. Besides exactly how relevant might that technology actually be in the face of 'off boresight' missiles and helmet mounted sights, where turning the plane itself is not such a big deal?

Sure BVR is critical and is the most important aspect....but is that an excuse to defend an airplane with inferior manuverability ?

Is it wise to overlook WVR so blatantly ? Can it be deemed sane to assume that a Eurofighter (if purchased) will never have to face other airplanes in WVR ??

In BVR too, the other airplanes have much more BVR ability than the Eurofighter ... the Meteor has alredy been offered and will in most probability be integrated into the Mig-35 or the Mirage-2000-5 ... if any of the two are chosen....the AESA radars of the F-16's, F-18's, Mig-35's will give them more than an edge in BVR (in addition to the best American/ Russian+French+Israeli missiles)

Maybe it is, but even so, that doesn't make the Typhoons set up 'bad' or 'poor' does it? That sounds like 'if its not absolutely the best then it must be rubbish' when surely the worst you could say of it would really be that it 'is not a decisive factor'. However whether the rival systems are better, worse or as good can surely only be guesswork for us?

No, it doesn't make the Typhoon poor... its avionics are advanced to say the least ... but that hardly matters if it is participating in a compition, when its inferior to that of the other competing airplanes

Again, How do you know this? There is no US equivalent of the Meteor yet (though one is to be developed), the AIM9X is no 'better' than the ASRAAM, in its early guise the Typhoon uses US supplied AIM-120''s until the Meteor is ready.

Like the article reads -- the Meteor is available to India from MBDA irrespective of the platform (infact MBDA are hardselling it for the Su-30 MKI !) ... the Mig-35 and the Mirage-2000-5 will surely have it if chosen.

There is no system that is equivalent of the the R-172 ramject powered super BVRAAM - and the Mig-35 will have it if chosen.

Not to mention new Mica's, Magic's, etc.

Further Israeli Python 5's are better than both the Aim 9x and the ASRAAM...Mig has alredy expressed its willingness to integrate these into the Mig-35.

ALARM? Storm Shadow? I suggest you think again.

Dont forget that France has offered the Armament Air-Sol-Modulaire (AASM) range of precision-guided weapons for the Mig-29 and the Mirages.

Also what about the Israeli Popoeye and the SPICE, and the PB-500-A1 LGB, the Israeli Sky Sheild offensive air-to-ground jammer system for use in SEAD .... and the impressive American JDAM's ? and the ever improving Russian A2G ordinance ?

So the Russians are aiming to get where the Typhoon is now? That makes them better? The RAF applied RAM to the Tornado fifteen years ago, things move on.

The Russians are alredy there now ... their new RAM reduces the RCS by over 15 times. New Indian Navy Mig-29 K's for the new carrier are alredy coming with these new RAM coatings.

That negates out the Eurofighter's lower RCS advantage as well.

So that fact that is has some things that the competition don't have doesn't count in its favour, while the things they offer that the Typhoon is getting too makes them superior?

So its the Typhoon that playing catch-up ! AESA, TVC, etc getting onto the Typhoon are only distant plans ... while the rest have it right now...that does make them superior.

By the time the Typhoon gets all that ... imagiene what else the others would have added ..

The Typhoon getting these goodies that the rest are alredy fielding in the distant future will increase the alredy extreme price of Typhoon...

You can't seriously take Singapore and Greece inro consideration here as they were both political decisions and not related to aircraft performance at all.

Sure Singapore's F-15 buy was politically motivated ... but that still does not explain the exit of the Eurofighter prior to that of the Rafale ( which has also somehow sneaked into the Indian MRCA tender-like the Typhoon)


[edit on 7-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by waynos
I guess these would replace Sea Harriers, yes?

No, it is for a new super carrier from Russia - INS Vikramadithya that will arrive in 2008. The Viraat along with the Sea Harriers (now upgraded with Israeli radars, communication & French navigation equipment & Israel's Derby BVRAAM's) will float on upto 2009-2010 ... when it will retire and give way to the indigenous carrier ADS with Naval LCA's.

You have quoted many instances there where the opposition is excellent, but still there is nothing (AESA and TVC apart that is actually better than what the Typhoon has, that is my point, you were saying they were all better, not simply 'as good'. You also misunderstood one of my points, off-boresight missiles and helmet mopunted sights are nothing to do with BVR, which I never mentioned. They are striclty WVR devices that make absolute agility less important because the pilot simply has to look a the opposing fighter rather than point the plane at it.

You say there is no equivalent to the R-172 ramject powered super BVRAAM, well, I don't knoe the specifics of this missile but you do realise that the Meteor is a ramjet powered BVRAAM don't you?

One tack you use is confusing me, you say that the Typhoons weapons are inferior but when I named them you simply say India could buy them anyway. I'm sure India could, but that doesn't change the fact that they are Typhoon weapons.

I don't doubt that the weapons offered by France, Russia and the USA are superb at what they do, but there is nothing to say they are better than anything the Typhoon might carry, whereas you say they are inferior. That is my only objection here.

So its the Typhoon that playing catch-up ! AESA, TVC, etc getting onto the Typhoon are only distant plans ... while the rest have it right now...that does make them superior.

And yet what about the stuff that Typhoon has that none of the opposition has? Again you simply disregard all this. Clearly you don't particularly want the Typhoon for India, and that is fine. No problem. But don't try to dress it up as an impartial comparison when it is clearly anything but as many of the 'faults' you are finding appear to have nbeen pulled from thin air.

Agin, no offense taken at anything you have said, it is simply your opinion and I don't work for Eurofighter

[edit on 7-12-2005 by waynos]

I think one thing both of you are not considering is the long term certainty of these products. If the Europeans or the Americans get the contract the Indians would have to play ball their way to keep all those planes flying but with the russians, they dont need to do anything except pay them and maybe not interfere in chechneya. The Europeans and the US would expect India to follow the Western path on international policy and given the Indian track record they arent likely to play that game for very long. The Indians are known to be unpredictable/uncontrollable and that is one of the main reasons that the US and India both two very large democratic nations with similar ideology are so far apart internationally. Regardless of the recent US-India courting.

You have a point there but whats with this need to 'control' foreign powers? Not only your post here, but also one in the Iran thread too. It strikes me as a manifestation of 'American Imperialism' that other countries are always complaining about. Maybe they have a point after all? I think India has less to worry about on that score with Europe than with America, but I agree that it is hardly a concern at all with Russia.

Originally posted by waynos
You say there is no equivalent to the R-172 ramject powered super BVRAAM, well, I don't knoe the specifics of this missile but you do realise that the Meteor is a ramjet powered BVRAAM don't you?

Well, the range of the R-172 is far greater than what the Meteor has to offer. The R-172 super BVRAAM has a range of about 400km !!

India can have both the Meteor and the R-172 if it so desires.

One tack you use is confusing me, you say that the Typhoons weapons are inferior but when I named them you simply say India could buy them anyway. I'm sure India could, but that doesn't change the fact that they are Typhoon weapons.

Well surely the same weapon are equally effective ... perhaps you misunderstood me.

What i meant the planes that India can choose (like the Mig-35) can have Typhoon weapons + additional latest Israeli and French that the typhoon cannot have + Russian weapons that the typhoon wont have

I don't doubt that the weapons offered by France, Russia and the USA are superb at what they do, but there is nothing to say they are better than anything the Typhoon might carry, whereas you say they are inferior. That is my only objection here.

Clarification posted ^^

And yet what about the stuff that Typhoon has that none of the opposition has? Again you simply disregard all this.

i cant think of anything beyond supercruise.

Clearly you don't particularly want the Typhoon for India, and that is fine.

Well i'd pick a typhoon to take on an F-15 anyday ... but IMHO the Typhoon is not the best choice for India...and the Tyhpoon package that India can have IMHO is far from the best ... IMHO the Mig-35 is the logical choice.

However, the British lobby in India has its roots deeply rooted in the core of Indian decision making bodies...and the Tyhpoon deal might be clinched just like the Hawk deal when the Mig-AT and the L-159B were the front runners and the Hawk was even almost rejected by the IAF evaluators.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Stealth Spy]