Let's put an end to ALL secret societies

Originally posted by stmichael
surely not ALL, if you were to do that there would be no magical entertainers,no magical societies, and no MAGIC CIRCLE, the MOST FAMOUS SECRET SOCIETY IN THE WORLD. stmichael.

Oh...so THAT'S your supposed secret society. You just couldn't STAND keeping it a secret any more, huh?

You must be so proud to have been a member...



www.martinfrost.ws...

From the site:
"The ‘Magic circle’ in Scotland is a description that some Scottish citizens (they) assert applies to a collective ring of purported establishment individuals who have engaged in sexual deviations, homosexual practices and paedophilia."

Sick, sick, sick...

[edit on 26-11-2005 by senrak]

here is the link,i,m sure you wouldn,t associate the future KING of england,to any other magic society than the most famous,

www.themagiccircle.co.uk...


themagiccircle.co.uk...

[edit on 26-11-2005 by stmichael]

Well...there you have it. A REAL "secret" society.

Nice joke stmichael...I'll have to admit. Thanks for playing

...now on to non-juvenile topics....

senrak,even though its not the same society,it is terrible, i didn,t know, the world is going crazy, there is so much evil in the world today. I heard a saying the other day.
watch your thoughts they become your words,watch your words they become your actions,watch your actions they become your habits,watch your habits they becomes your destiny. So true. There must be more sayings like this,just difficult to locate them.

[edit on 26-11-2005 by stmichael]

Harper said that Manly Hall "taught Masonry to Grand Masters before he became a Mason." I responded:

I suppose you can tell us the name of one of these "grand masters" that Hall "taught Masonry to"?

To which Harper responded:

I'm not interested in your Masonic games.

That's the biggest Dodge I've seen since I sold my '84 van.



[edit on 28-11-2005 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by markusjharper
Many people are being drawn into the new source of info the web provides even with all it's untruths and plagerizing. I am thankful for the web espicially with the loss of privacy and intrusion by corporations and government. Eschelon, Carnivore, etc are not fabrications. The media is so very controlled, obviously, where will you get info, from the library with Matrix database watching. Hopefully that has been shut down.

I could not agree more. I am so glad that the UN did NOT get hold of the internet; at least for this round. But they never stop trying and the wicked never sleep - they will continue to snoop. But as they do, they create exactly what they fear most - more folks like us.

".....I ran in to the Illuminati bloodline thing and to this day do believe in Fritz Springmier who is likely quite unpopular around here. Hopefully he will be released from prison to carry on his amazinly deep research.

I downloaded Fritz' Bloodlines of the Illuminati off emule a few years ago and really enjoyed it. I also liked his chart www.the7thfire.com... (only thing I find is that he's off a little bit on the White Brotherhood being at the very top of the pyramid)

I wondered about that image. There is the a similar one at thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr...

The difference is this one has no fritz copyright and al;so has the "Tavola" indication. I would like to know the original source of this image.

Fritz claims there is heavy involvement between many many occult/nre age organizations and that Masonry reigns supreme over most of them. This chart does not spell indicate Masonry specifically does it?

As I am no expert in the occult I'd welcome Masonic input here both on this chart and Fritz in general.

It is interesting to ponder why they put him in prison mind you. I agree, why did they decide to keep him alive; disgrace him may be?

I do have a few of those who let me know the Red Cross is a cover for the CIA for example.

I guess you heard the old saying that the Rosy Cross can always go behind the enemy lines - since they are the enemy. The Gays of New York and the Africans can thank them for spreading AIDS also. I never support those criminals but I give to the local charities (sources checked carefully) and support any engine that will expose secret societies.

It's funny how while they all preach about having this wonderful secret, we all seem to be losing our very basic rights and privacy. Ever since that socialist traitor Jefferson brought in the Liberal party, we have been getting worse (equality, blah) until now we have Neo-Jacobins Jesuits in the DC chair. So how did they sneak in there?

The very fact the Mason so categorically avoid these issues is what makes people wonder when history have many found at critical points in history.

You know I'd love to go back to those days where I thought Muslims were the big issue. I used to trust my gov back then and sometimes I wish this was all just a bad dream but then I turn on the news and remember that millions have died and we are told these are just mistakes and not at all planned and then I ask why are all the micorbiologists dying suddenly and why is even the Vatican Pope having a huge upside cross shown on the backing of his chair, for millions and millions to see?


www.ewtn.com... They tell us, oh we Catholics just used the upside cross because of Peter being crucified upside down. However, although Peter was crucified upside down, no where did they say the cross was inverted; it was only his body!

What is the deal with the upside down Vatican cross? Masons, do you have any knowlwdge about this as I havn't?


[edited quote coding -nygdan]

[edit on 28-11-2005 by Nygdan]

www.ascendedmasters.ac...
I was aware ot the typical "Ascended Master" Great White Brotherhood such as Elizabeth Claire Prophet and Summit Lighthouse. These folks are also Kabbalistic and Gnostic as well as Book of Enoch.

Is this different than Great White Brotherhood found below?

proutnewsnetwork.org...
lluminati Conspiracy, Order of the Illumined Wise Men


May 1, 1776, was the most important date in Freemasonry's Luciferic New World Order Plans. On that date an obscure Jesuit-trained professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt in Bavaria, Adam Weishaupt, founded a secret society called the Ancient and Illuminated Seers of Bavaria (AISB for short). Illuminati was founded on a mixture of Masonic secrets(--Luciferic Doctrine--), Islamic Mysticism(--Sufism--), and Jesuit mental discipline(--Hatha Yoga--). A unique and dangerous element was it's scientific use of the drug, hashish, to produce an "illuminated" state of mind--derived directly through the Knights Templar's association with the Order of the Assassins (circa 1050 AD).

Illumination had long been a cherished component of Masonry and other occult groups. The Masonic candidate requests, and is promised "light in Masonry." As he goes up the ladder of initiation, he receives "more light". It is because of this society's emphasis on illumination that the AISB became known by its more common title, the Illuminati.

The term Illuminati, is the plural of the Latin, Illuminatus, meaning "one who is illuminated." Thus, it means a person who has received the full extent of the initiation that is available through Freemasonry.

Technically, an Illuminatus is a Master Mason who has received all the "light" Masonry can bestow. He is beyond 32° and even beyond 33°! Such people are known as the Masters of Masters of the Temple, and collectively are known by several names other than the Illuminati.

* Great White Brotherhood
* Argentium Astrum (Silver Star)
* Order of One
* Torch-bearers
* Invisible College
* Custodians of the Plan
* The Lords of Compassion
* Guardians of the Grail
* Society of Illumined Minds
* World Mind
* Council of Masters
* Hesychasts



* Order of the Perfectibilists
* The Council of All Beings
* Wisemen
* Invisible Order
* Secret Brotherhood
* The Brain Trust
* Crusaders of the Green Cross
* Seekers on the Threshold
* Masters of Wisdom
* The Hierarchy
* Council of Nine
* Fraternitas Saturni
* Hermetic Brotherhood of Light




Most of the elite were born elite. Their upbringing is steeped in tradition and is a kind of secret society in of itself. Their father was a Mason, his father was a Mason, his father's father was a Mason. Perhaps while growing up the child heard stories of his father's involvement in other secret groups.

'There exists in the world today, and has existed for thousands of years, a body of enlightened humans united in what might be termed, an Order of the Quest. It is composed of those whose intellectual and spiritual perceptions have revealed to them that civilization has secret destiny..

The outcome of this 'secret destiny' is a World Order ruled by a King with supernatural powers.

This King was descended of a divine race; that is, he belonged to the Order of the Illumined for those who come to a state of wisdom then belong to a family of heroes-perfected human beings.'

Manly P. Hall 33° Mason, The Secret Destiny of America
There is an Illuminati chart showing mason near the top.


www.greylodge.org...
In the West since at least the early 18th century, the Black Lodge has tended to operate along crypto-Masonic lines, and its development has tended to coincide with and mirror that of the Great White Brotherhood. This development may, in fact, be attributed to a cosmic principle of "equal generation of forces." Thus, the birth of the modern form, as the fraternity of the knights militant of the New Aeon in the cultural and political turbulence of Germany in the 1890s, may fairly (along with the coincident peak in the development of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the Universal Gnostic Church) be characterized as the resurgence of the Great White Brotherhood and its rejuvenation out of the degeneration of classical speculative freemasonry. This coincides closely with the "Great Airship Scare" of 1897.

[edit on 28-11-2005 by peopledying]

Originally posted by peopledying
Illuminati was founded on a mixture of Masonic secrets(--Luciferic Doctrine--), Islamic Mysticism(--Sufism--), and Jesuit mental discipline(--Hatha Yoga--). A unique and dangerous element was it's scientific use of the drug, hashish, to produce an "illuminated" state of mind--derived directly through the Knights Templar's association with the Order of the Assassins (circa 1050 AD).

I don't think that there's a single statement there that is accurate. Maybe that the illuminati were based in part on the masons, but even that was apparently a later (not much later but not original) modification to the illuminati.

How about the manly Hall part?:

'There exists in the world today, and has existed for thousands of years, a body of enlightened humans united in what might be termed, an Order of the Quest. It is composed of those whose intellectual and spiritual perceptions have revealed to them that civilization has secret destiny..

The outcome of this 'secret destiny' is a World Order ruled by a King with supernatural powers.

This King was descended of a divine race; that is, he belonged to the Order of the Illumined for those who come to a state of wisdom then belong to a family of heroes-perfected human beings.'

Manly P. Hall 33° Mason, The Secret Destiny of America

Also I'd appreciate comments on what you know about the "Great White Brotherhood". The excerpts chosen were for that topic, the subject of the post, not necessarily the rest of it.

Is it not possible many Masons would not know some of this stuff? I mean you can't all be the historical experts that would be required, just as I cannot be such an expert. The thing is there is so much material along these lines out there to try and discover the truth about all of it is daunting, and of course neither you nor I were not there. How do you know any better than I it is not true than it is? This is a valid question. Where do you get your historical information?

As far as history let's also test our knowledge of current events.

How about if I told you the poweres that be intend to have effectively open borders between the US, Mexico and Canada a few (under four) years from now and the American public was being for the most part left in the dark and even distracting attention attention from it by talking about guest worker programs, amnesty etc.

Would you tell me I was a conpiratorial fool? Please be honest in your initial reaction to such a stament.

I've not responded to your posts of late because the "information" in them is frankly -- to a Mason -- just bizarre, and I can't find a "nice" way to say so. I found an indisputable fact that I hope will help.

Brother Hall wrote "The Secret Destiny of America" in 1944, ten years before he became a Mason. I've been unable to determine when he received his "Honorary 33rd Scottish Rite Degree", but in any case it could not have been sooner than 10 years after he became a Mason, meaning qt least 20 years after writing this book.

Obviously this means this book could have no "Masonic" authority. Further, Manley Hall -- for all his esoteric and occult leanings, was no "Masonic Authority" either. Frankly, in my jurisdiction, it would have been hard to find a lodge that would have accepted a person of such "occult" notoriety, but since some lodge, somewhere, did, I call him "Brother."

Thereafter he must have petitioned a Scottish Rite body for admission, and received -- not "taught" but RECEIVED -- the Scottish Rite Degrees, although it is not unheard of for those with the proper authority to confer an Honorary status to someone who has not petitioned. Again -- I don't know which SR Body did this for Brother Hall, but it's certainly possible that some group of my SR Brethren thought Brother Manley was 'da bomb and bestowed such an honor on him. Still, this doesn't mean that the rest of us think he was anything more than some far-out dude with some really strange philosophical leanings.

Why is it that The Reverend Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, 33°, Bishop Carl J. Sanders, 33°, G.C., Rabbi Seymour Atlas, 33°, Dr. James P. Wesberry, 32°, K.C.C.H., The Reverend Louis R. Gant, 33°, or The Reverend Dr. W. Kenneth Lyons, Jr., 33°, G.C. , are never cited as "Masonic Authorities"? Because there's no sensationalism to be gained from pointing out their membership!

I mean you no disrespect, but can assure you that the sooner you disposess yourself of the notion that Masonry is at the root of, or even part of any sort of nefarious "grand conspiracy", the better off you're going to be.

Consider the fact that we can't agree from jurisdiction to jurisdiction -- over 100 Grand Lodge jurisdictions in the US alone -- what exactly constitutes proper ritual or at what age a man can become a Mason. I love my Fraternity, but the odds that Masons could be part of something so broad and deep is simply laughable.

There may be a secret group of boogeymen out there somewhere -- I don't think so, but there MAY be -- but I am 100% SURE that you'll never find it in Masonry. Any claim to the contrary -- whether found on a website, book, or otherwise, should be your first hint to question the credibility of its author.

I've made some comments about "a better class of website." That was perhaps uncharitable. What I probably should have said would have been to repeat advice I received many times as a child: "Consider the source."

Some websites should be immediately recognized as the work of kooks and others as the work of charlatans. On the other hand, some may be considered to be relatively credible sources in spite of their eclectic and unconventional origins.

If they use the terms "Masonry" "Illuminati" "Jesuits" and "New World Order" in the same paragraph, and aren't joking or debunking nonsense, it's a safe bet they don't belong in the latter category.

You'd be well served to first educate yourself as to the facts about Masonry, the actual history of the "illuminati" and the "Jesuits" (not to mention other topics apt to send some folks scurrying for the tinfoil) so as to be equipped to critically and logically evaluate the claims made about them. The sort of websites you've been posting aren't exactly condusive to education or critical analysis.

If you want to know about Masonry, Masonic websites are a logical place to go. In spite of the ridiculous claims, we've nothing to hide. Think of it another way: If you want to know about the KKK, who would you ask? Wouldn't it make sense to find out what they say about themselves? If you check out their website or those of the church of satan and aryan nations (all of which I personally find disgusting ) you'll find that they pretty much admit everything that's said about them.

Why would you trust such groups to be honest about themselves, and believe what they say, but dismiss, say The Masonic Information Center or some equivalent bonafide authority as inaccurate while accepting the word of outsiders? Why would you, if you want to know "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?" not believe us when we try to tell you? If you believe we are evil, why are we the only evil that cannot be believed? The very premise defies all logic.

I really am trying to help, and I sincerely hope you'll take this in the spirit in which it was intended.

Respectfully,

DD

**I will not respond to any post on this thread designed to flood the reader with cut and pasting; nor the post which ask for proof, evidence and more proof that clutters up the discussion and forgoes the understanding of the scientific method when engaging in an informal discussion. For example, we can understand that the food product called Stevia is not allowed to be sold as “a sweetener” and thus it is not necessary to ask me for proof as to why it’s obvious that the FDA is “cartel” when the evidence is already apparent by the restrictions they placed upon Stevia, in this supposed free market society. All evidence to the very basic points I make below can be found at www.vaticanassassins.org., and in the book “Vatican Assassins” and also in the links posted earlier by “peopledying”. Look for it and don’t be asking for proof, unless you read it. Any poster attempting to lead us into the abyss, I shall ignore completely and I ask the rest of you to do same.

Peopledying,
Remember the links you posted regarding www.vaticanassassins.org and the other links? Those were by far the greatest single sources of truth (other than our holy books) that I have ever come across, period. I want thank you once again for bringing that to my attention and I wonder how many people here “really” took the time to read the links you provided. My mother read them also and she is a Roman Catholic who is now buying the book “Vatican Assassins”. She was a little upset (and should be) but her understanding and faith in the Lord transcends any organization that she and I have previously, or are now affiliated with. (I recall Christ telling John the Baptist where the temple of heaven is to be found)

As for the Great White brotherhood on the diagram: I see you have made an interesting point about the 2 different signatures. But as far as the White Brotherhood is concerned, it could be a hit or miss; it’s hard to say but I read somewhere else that its true meaning came from the wise men who visited Christ in the Manger. But like everything else these days, how can we identify anything by name alone – everything is not as it was once before so we can only guess by their deeds.

Let me tell you all in a nutshell why I started this thread:

While taking an aggressive stance as someone who has very few friends, (which is true) I want you to know that it is people like you and several others here, which I consider myself worthy to be a friend of. I have a few friends and they are very close people from every nationality and faith and they all agree mutually that the typical Mason is not much different than your typical Jesuit or typical Jew or typical Roman Catholic, as it is not “they” themselves but the organizations, which have been slowly taken over by insurgence.

I studied Manly Hall somewhat and I ordered Hall’s “Secret Destiny of America” from PRS.org and read it. Manly seems to reinforce the importance of not losing the Constitution and he constantly reminds us that Freemasonry is not what is used to be in much of his writings. He does not strike me as an evil person hiding anything even though he is both a Theosophist and a Mason. In fact, he is so brutally honest that I cannot do anything but respect him greatly in these frustrating times. Any Mason reading his books have no reason to disagree that he knew Masonry far, far better than any Mason alive today and he knew this as a child living in Peterborough Canada where he was born; may be even before then from another life – Hope you understand what I mean now–DD.:-)

Readers may have noticed the “appearance” of a lack of honesty from several posters here. I find these posters are unaware and naturally well meaning, but some may indeed know more and are certainly not at liberty to share it with us no matter what. In fact, they would rather distract and lead us no-where into blind alleys. Thus, I feel it absolutely pointless to argue with certain Masons unless they are willing to look differently at their own faith or history or “whatever they wish call it”.

I was once a Roman Catholic myself but that does not alter my understanding that the enemy we face today are the JESUITS controlling almost everything. In history, the Jesuits were known to be as vile as the devil and nothing less than pure evil itself. How, our dictionaries and history book have changed today to show otherwise? How do I know this? I have an older definition of what is a Jesuit and it was understood by much of the world to be correct. If you search for it, you can find certain websites that will allow you to compare the old and new definition of “Jesuit”. Consider how much of a threat they were: they were booted from power by the Knights of Malta, Queen Elizabeth in England, Japan, Spain, China, Portugal, Russia, France and many other nations. They were so feared by all the nations that they were eventually outlawed by the Kings in Europe Forever! But their persistence in unrivaled! They never stopped trying to infiltrate those Monarchial (free from the power of the Pope) nations and kill all the leaders. The gunpowder incident was but one Jesuit attempt to kill the leaders of a free country. The sinking of the Titanic was carried out by a Catholic (I believe) who was ordered to commit suicide by taking the Titanic into an iceberg to kill the rich Republican Jews and bankers who were opposed to the Central Banks like the Federal Reserve.

The establishment of an American Republic was the biggest slap in the face to the Jesuits and we can thank our early Christian & Mason Presidents for that one. LOL! My love for the Republic is because I know it was a great gift from God. Freemasonry was not infiltrated in America until much later on. But in Europe the Jesuits were using the House of Rothschild and the Bankers to help fund a new form of resistance to the Monarchy and Masonry was but one society to be used as pawns in a bloody Revolution against the Monarchy. The creation of the Bavarian Illuminati brought in new degrees within freemasonry to push forward the Jesuit plans also. During the time of the Declaration of Independence the USA was founded essentially by Masons and Christians (or Mason-Christians) but it was based upon the mostly Christian Reformation of early Calvinist days in 1500’s. Since the 1770’s, America was fighting the King of England who was a pawn but really they were fighting a war against an evil Roman dictatorship run by the Jesuits. It is clear that the Monarchies of Europe has succumbed to the Jesuits by this time – thus the fear by the early American peoples. Since Abraham Lincoln’s assassination and the setup of the treasonous 14th Amendment, America has been under Jesuit control and in Roosevelt’s time, was completely lost to the Jesuits. Ronald Reagan later restored the Vatican as a sovereign state, which the early Presidents outlawed – and for good reason! When the Jesuits are finished using our powerful military to punish the other nations for their part in resisting the Jesuits in the past, the Reformation-based American nation will next be punished (since 1500’s Reformation was our ideal) and we are all to be tortured and exterminated in every imaginable way.
Most Masons believe that the French and English Revolution was a war fought against the evil Monarchies or kings of Europe. I once believed this also and we are told that this was a time for freedom free from the evil Monarchy. However, the early settlers of America were very disturbed, they knew that the true nature of the Revolution was meant to punish those Monarchies which broke FREE from the Jesuits and the Pope of Rome and sadly every nation that resisted the Jesuits has sine then, been brutally punished except for America, Canada, and Australia – thanks to our founding fathers. Our time is coming people and it frightens me that few of us realize that the CFR, Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission, Freemasonry, Roman Catholics, Knights of Malta, and many other secret societies and non-secret are but pawns of the Jesuits. Secret societies are by far the worst and most dangerous! The Early Monarchs were free and their people were granted the right to read the Bible. (This was NEVER allowed during the dark Crusading times of Roman Catholic rule) Early Freemasons were not so different from the other Christians and Jews that were persecuted by the Pope’s of Rome, while holding that cross of the devil (which is not the same cross of the Christians) and inflicting pain and death to anyone who wanted to practice their own religion or anyone who wanted to believe in a Great Architect other than the Pope himself. Once the Jesuits decided to assist Rome in stopping the Reformers in 1500’s (who were Calvinist, Masons, Knights, Baptists etc) much of the Jesuit symbolism entered into the Roman Catholic Church and into European Freemasonry which was not originally Freemason or Catholic but later became part of it, now making it VERY difficult to lay blame or point a finger without first insulting the Masons and Catholics – just for an example.

I spent many years going to Catholic churches and I know that they would be very upset to learn what I have. But still, I was able to take a step back and see the truth, so why cannot a Mason also see that they were once like the true Knights of Malta and opposed the Jesuits and that of Rome and in fact were hated by them so much, that they were then used to attack their own brothers in America by Jesuits-Jacobin-Freemasons. Why cannot they see that Manly Hall was a MASON tying to teach true Masonry to an ignorant populace from its roots of an ancient time of worshiping God or Ma’at? Why cannot they see the warnings of those Masons who saw the corruptions and the early Presidents who were worried about outside influences? These were not Masson-haters but Children of God and wanted to protect our freedom. Why do Masons defend the very modern status quo today and nothing more? The Illuminati was created by a Jesuit Professor who NEVER became anything BUT a Jesuit – he was NOT a Jew. Rothschild is nothing more than the Jew-hating Zionist banker for the Jesuits and they WILL kill all Reformers including Masons and Catholics, Jew, Protestants having no mercy. In fact, the death camps in America have been setup to kill mostly the Jews first. Soon the wars we are now witnessing will be blamed on the Jews, just as Hitler blamed them by using the Jesuit written “Protocols of Zion”. The rest of the Jews will flee to Israel and die there as it has been planned by the Vatican and the Dark Jesuit General. With less Jews here to assist the free people of North America, we will then be attacked by an Islamic-Chino strike – Islam being controlled by the (no longer true Masonic) front of Shriner Masonry and Knights of Malta (no longer true) and China by the Knights of Columbus and Roman Catholics. This also explains the need to kill off as many Buddhists as possible in China, as they are our true brothers.

THE JESUITS NEVER FORGIVE, NOR DO THEY FORGET.

America is being weakened from within and the business sector is one small sign of change; their bailing to China and other nations is for more reason than just profit alone. Corporations are fairly self–sufficient and some also know or smell what is coming for us. We all best prepare ourselves, as they have except we should build our base here, in North America. That means we need the Freemasons help also.

Either way, I have rarely notice Masons speaking harshly about the OTO, Skull and Bones and other secret societies. As for the Masons who do speak out, hats off to you. Perhaps the Masons and others, who tend to never speak in opposition to the established status quo, wouldn’t mind sharing their thoughts on the other societies like the OTO, Golden Dawn, Bilderbergers and what they think is really going on behind the scenes in the world today?

Markusjharper

Originally posted by markusjharper
**I will not respond to any post on this thread designed to flood the reader with cut and pasting; nor the post which ask for proof, evidence and more proof

Then basically, all I have to say is that your post is complete and utter bollocks.

"I'm going to write what I like, but nobody is allowed to argue with me".

But then you've never supplied one bit of evidence for one single claim that you have made here - ever. Nice change of tactic though. Deny the supplying of proof before you are asked for it.

Leveller, you take us all for fools and are now on my ignore list.

Have a nice day.

Originally posted by markusjharper
Leveller, you take us all for fools and are now on my ignore list.

Have a nice day.

I'm afraid that Leveller is correct in that we do tend to like proof around here rather than go on the word of one or two people.
We also love lots of links and quotes which independantly back each other up - rather than blindly believing a single source of information.

I know I do anyway, however I also recognise a lot of people actually don't like links or quotes, past experience has given me the impression it is usually people with an idea that has little backing. The idea of having to provide any sort of evidence scares the person as there usually isn't any beyond their own opinon or the opinion of the website they have decided to copy..

[edit on 29-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

I'm afraid that Leveller is correct in that we do tend to like proof around here rather than go on the word of one or two people.
We also love lots of links and quotes which independantly back each other up - rather than blindly believing a single source of information.

For the record Mr. Smith:

a) One should first read a post "carefully" before trying to destroy it and ruining other’s opportunity to read with the possibility to engage in discussion. Thank you for pointing out that Leveller was “correct” also, I'll keep that in mind when I figure out what about exactly.

Leveller could be right (or wrong) and disagree with me on just about anything at all. I would have loved to hear his opinion but that is not why I ignored him. I pointed out already that my information is from a few sources but for those who have studied conspiracies, as I happen to know that what I posted is not so far off, nor is it at all wrong coming from but a few links; know that truth is not always quantity, so the point is irrelevant to any progressive discussion.

b) Leveller deliberately quoted me "out of context" (did you catch it????) and I did not say anyone couldn’t correct me, or disagree but……..

I simply asked people to be respectful to the main point of the post; I do want the best outcome and as I have been deliberately blatant earlier and received due penance, I hope that you can avoid constantly writing: PROOF, EVIDENCE, and more PROOF as it tends to cause distraction to the readers when overdone. I posted one source in the first paragraph to avoid getting into what we are now, well Getting Into. I think I was fair when I said not to underestimate me just yet, as you may find more than you first thought was the status quo. Now isn’t this true with many things? Interesting, how my assumptions while being a lurker before posting are now coming to fruition - watching which posters take advantage of those they “think” are fools speaks volumes to the elect. If you wish to disagree with any specifics however (names, dates, times, connections etc) please feel free to discuss it in mostly "YOUR OWN WORDS" and....

Please, at least try and read the links before disagreeing with someone. Also you don’t always have to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Sorry, if you feel I’m being unfair but I don’t have the patience to continue to talk in circles.

Originally posted by markusjharper
Leveller, you take us all for fools and are now on my ignore list.

Have a nice day.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Isn't it ironic how this guy has whined on and on about free speech ad infinitum, yet he tries to stifle argument in his first paragraph and then hits the ignore button when someone disagrees with him?

Still, I suppose the good thing about being ignored by such a character is that I can point out without him trying to create smokescreens that his theory is based on a mistrust and hatred of his fellow man. Read his diatribe and you will see that Markus doesn't just hate Freemasons - he hates everyone. He literally sees every group of people as a threat to him.

The way he has built his theory is by taking a dodgy conspiracy about one group, added another dodgy theory about another, added another, added another, added another and so on. It's like a house built on sand or continually repeating "This may look like white but it's really black". It's Chinese Whispers for the paranoid. The major problem is that if he is wrong anywhere in his theory, it all comes crashing down around him.
And that's why he doesn't like proof. It will destroy everything that he believes in.
Unfortunately, Markus has been proven wrong on many, many things. He has also refused to supply evidence when asked to, so I think it was only a matter of time before he recognised that his house was sinking. And judging by his censoring action, unless he starts supporting and backing up his own words, pretty soon he's going to end up writing in a forum where the only posts he will be able to see are his own.

It's laughable that somebody who jumps from issue to issue without showing the logic behind those jumps can accuse others of trying to sidetrack topics. Markus may claim that evidence only serves to muddy the waters, but isn't evidence the road to Truth? He also claims to have been taken out of context. I think not. Take a look at his words above and then go and read his posts elsewhere and you can see that taking Markus out of context is not an issue here. His original tactic of just trying to ignore pleas for proof have now been replaced with a clear refutation. It's OK to accuse others of trying to sidestep but when you yourself are the creator of a theory, just how can you expect others not to answer the statements that you made? All replies made to Markus have only been given in answer to accusations that he has made!!! How can he therefore accuse others of sidestepping???!!!!

This guy is clearly practicing his own form of censorship - be it by refusing to supply evidence, stating that proof isn't necessary or by putting people on ignore. For one such as he who claims to only have the interests of Freedom for other people at heart I find this to be highly hypocritical and illogical.







[edit on 29-11-2005 by Leveller]