conspiracy against masons?

To be fair I don't see anything obviouslt wrong with Shriners and would not want to say anything against them. It may well be that some of them are accociated in high places just as are many Masons. It also does not mean that all Shriners and Masons are not involved in anything. I just provided the links to what other are trying to use against them and it appers to me to be largely unfounded.

For the record I would never make a global case against either group as a whole but specific members involvement with specific points of history are what need to be investigated. If the above links are accurate as far that is hard to know, it would take a lot of autobiographical work to try and determine.

I would appreciate it if you see anything easily provable wrong with some of the above info. Believe it or not I am here to find truth not attack anyone.

I would also appreciate it if some of the Masons DO think is going on in the world or we we are headed. I know you are mandated to avoid politics but it is more than politics and I would welcome your thoughts.




[edit on 24-11-2005 by peopledying]

[edit on 24-11-2005 by peopledying]

Originally posted by peopledying
Huh DD.

Huh?

Here's a question for you:

If I were an intelligent person and wanted to find out the membership requirements) of some organization, would I:
(a) Go to the website of that organization or
(b) scrape the bottom of the pond looking for some more "conspiracy" slime? (note: if I got bored I could alsways browse the selection of erotica offered at the same "authoritative" site...

Heck, while I am at it, if I were looking for information on a fraternity, would I:
(a) Go to the oldest Masonic website in the world
or (b) Go to some site that also claimed cell towers are part of ELF mind-control experiments

If I wanted to know if Masonry was a religion, would I rely on the word of numerous masons on this very site, or would I go to the truly bizzarre website of a defrocked (um JESUIT!?!) Priest whose only real claim to fame is of having publicly gone on record in favor of killing abortion doctors.?

I still can't figure out where your last quote came from, nor what *any* of this has to do with me...

All I can do is suggest that you start to frequent a better class of website...

I'll say it again, hon -- everything you read on the Intar-web ain't necessarily so...

DD

Originally posted by peopledying
I know you are mandated to avoid politics but it is more than politics and I would welcome your thoughts.

Freemasons are not "mandated to avoid poitics" -- however political discussion -- like any other topic which might create divisions among men -- is prohibited within the Lodge.

Speaking only for myself -- which is all any Mason can do -- here's what I think:
* The world's always been full of corrupt people. Often these people are the ones inclined to struggle for political "power"
* Throughout human history, despotic regimes have been the norm, rather than the exception.
* No group has ever existed that has done more to open the minds of men, to further the concept that "all men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights" than has Freemasonry.
* Those who attack Freemasonry or attempt to tie it to any sort of world takeover demonstrate their absolute ignorance of the subject -- such a thing would be absolutely impossible as it stands in direct opposition to the most basic Tenets of the Fraternity.
* The concept of any sort of secret global conspiracy to enact a "One World Government" is ludicrous in the extreme. No doubt -- among the roughly 6 BILLION people on the planet there are megalomaniacs with such fantasies, but we humans are far too quarrelsome for any such scheme to ever come to fruition.

Study Freemasonry using reputable sources. Talk to Freemasons. See what you learn, then compare it to the nonsense you read on the websites you seem to frequent.

Then ask yourself these simple questions:

If the average Freemason is really the good man he appears to be, and if he had worked for years to reach some (nonexistent) "high level" in Masonry, at which point he found out it was all a lie
what would he do?

Who knows more about what happens in your family -- its members or the people across town who don't like you for some unknown reason? Your school? Your Church? Your town? State? Country?

How is it possible that any outsider could know more about the inner workings of any group than people INSIDE said group?

Think! Logic is the cure for ignorance!

DD

If you believe Masons are conspiratorial, then lets go ahead and assume that that founding fathers who many were Masons led us down the wrong path, so really the Constitution and Declaration of Independance are conspiracy documents and could be labled null and void.
There is nothing secret about Masonry. All the degrees and rituals are posted online. The degrees are meaningful experiences to the candidate. Masons keeps these sacred initations secret because it will spoil it for the new candiate taking out his degrees.
Yes there are Masons that hold high positions in Government, but the number is no more than those who hold positions in any other occupation. Masonry's motto is the make "good men better" without regard to any religion. The only requirment is the man be of age, and have a belief in a supreme being. AGNOSTICS can not be allowed to join.
The people who posts bad comments about Freemasonry really fear everything about the fraternity. There is an old saying, "what you don't understand, you fear." Before making posts that are ill-logical and un-academic, talk to a Mason first and he will answer all your questions.

The founding fathers were not Masons but Christians (Baptist, Freeman, Calvinist, Protestants) and were not Roman Catholic, Jesuit or Mason.

Jefferson was a wicked man (in deed), a plagiarist (Jefferson Bible) and a Jesuit-Mason. G. Washington was not a Mason and refused to set foot in a lodge more than a couple time in his life. So what does Masonry offer Washington that Christianity cannot? A nice looking skirt, perhaps? Masonry means little to nothing to the Christian - it adds nothing more.

Freemasons are controlled by Jesuits, as is the Catholic Church/Vatican, reporting to the General Jesuit. As I was once a Catholic-Christian, I learned that it meant nothing to be Catholic and everything to be Christian. I parted with Catholics and do not celebrate Baal’s birthday on Dec 25, like many who have been deceived!

I was able to see the truth about the Jesuit-Roman Empire and I do not accept it. So can you Masons accept that you are nothing but a lodge (a building) and it is empty filled of ritual and lies! Masonry is not what is used to be, ever since Martin Luther decided to separate from Roman-Catholics and the Jesuits became the rulers of the Vatican

The highest levels of the Jesuits/Catholism are Luciferians - they worship Lucifer. You best believe so is Masonry at the highest level. Jesuits revised Masonry into a military order.

Apparently, you know nothing about George Washington's life and in addition are less educated about his involvment with freemasonry. Do your research before you blurt out false staements. Perhaps, even more, you should at least prove your suspician of the Catholic Church other than blurting it out on ATS. Your conspiratorial stance has no real merit or academic standing, and no one is gaining any new insights from your fear. Do you not think the Catholics have many enemies that keep them in check? Read about the Orange Order. No one group of people will ever take control of the world. James Madison proved that when he wrote the Constitution. He wanted America to be a large Republic because he knew there needed to be many factions. These factions in turn would counter-act each other, so that one group could never be in control.

Apparently, you know nothing about George Washington's life and in addition are less educated about his involvment with freemasonry. Do your research before you blurt out false staements.

According to Washington's own writings, he was not a Mason. Stepping into a lodge does not make a person a Mason.

Perhaps, even more, you should at least prove your suspician of the Catholic Church other than blurting it out on ATS. Your conspiratorial stance has no real merit or academic standing, and no one is gaining any new insights from your fear.

How should I start? Have you ever wondered why they are so silent in Vatican whenever their is an issue. I do not have to prove anything. it is up to Catholics to prove that they are still not under Roman rule of Law. Do the math and tell me why should they continue to decieve otherwise good Christian to celebrate X-MAS on BAAL's birthday; when they know and I know that Yeshua (Jesus) was born in January and Essenes and Nazerenes know this truth? If you cannot explain this to me, I suggest you better go back and do your homework. Do you think it is was easy for me to accept that my religion was always fighting with each other. Christians do not fight and no Christian burns Jews alive! That is Rome, simple as that and the reason that Bohemian Grovers can still perform Caananite rituals, is because it Roman Paganism, allowed and acepted by the Jesuits.

Do you not think the Catholics have many enemies that keep them in check? Read about the Orange Order. No one group of people will ever take control of the world. James Madison proved that when he wrote the Constitution. He wanted America to be a large Republic because he knew there needed to be many factions. These factions in turn would counter-act each other, so that one group could never be in control.

Rome is here and never left. You are born and have Roman citizenship - deal with it "STRAWMAN", or do what I did and find out what is International Admiralty Maritme law, or the law of the open water/sea, and lay claim to your real name and get out of the Matrix. Try it, you'll thank yourself for looking seriously into it.

James Madison understood that a Republic is meant to be SMALL and only to ensure the basic rights and freedoms of the American. What you just described is a form of hegelian conflict and a huge lie. Sorry, but I find that very disturbing, as no true Republican would ever want a larger Republic, nor would he want to leave it to chance that things would balance each other out. the system is self-sufficent and does not require any cancellation of one or another group.




[edit on 24-11-2005 by markusjharper]

Originally posted by markusjharper
The founding fathers were not Masons but Christians (Baptist, Freeman, Calvinist, Protestants)

If you knew anything about Masonry you'd understand that the two are not exclusive. Many Masons are Christians, and many Christians are also Masons.

(the founding fathers)were not ... Mason.

Evidence? Here's some evidence of your ignorance of the subject.

Jefferson was a wicked man (in deed), a plagiarist (Jefferson Bible) and a Jesuit-Mason.

Evidence? Here's some evidence that you know as little about Jefferson as you do about everything else.

G. Washington was not a Mason and refused to set foot in a lodge more than a couple time in his life.

Evidence?

Masonry means little to nothing to the Christian - it adds nothing more.

Evidence that you, as a non-mason are qualified to judge what Masonry means to anyone?

Freemasons are controlled by Jesuits, as is the Catholic Church/Vatican, reporting to the General Jesuit.

Evidence? As is Evidence? Reporting to Evidence?

As I was once a Catholic-Christian, I learned that it meant nothing to be Catholic and everything to be Christian. I parted with Catholics and do not celebrate Baal’s birthday on Dec 25, like many who have been deceived!

I thought you said you were "a strawman" until you "changed your name to be human"?!? Was that a catholic-christian-strawman or a strawman-catholic -- I'm confused...

So can you Masons accept that you are nothing but a lodge (a building) and it is empty filled of ritual and lies!

IS it empty or filled? In either case, the only "lies" I've seen here were in your posts.

Again, I ask for

Evidence?

... that you are in any way qualified to judge what any lodge is filled with?

[]Blah Blah[]
Evidence that you are in any way qualified to judge what Masonry is or was??

The highest levels of the Jesuits/Catholism are Luciferians - they worship Lucifer.

Evidence?

You best believe so is Masonry at the highest level.

Evidence?

Jesuits revised Masonry into a military order.

ROFLMAO at the thought of a "military order" composed of the Masons I have met -- average age in the US is somewhere approaching 70. Yet another example of the utter dearth of knowledge of Masonry.

Still, keeping an open mind, I continue to beg for

EVIDENCE?

Serious Question here: If I say I believe you and will quit the lodge and will buy David Icke's books, will you go away?

DD

Edit: Due to second-thoughts removing uncharitable reference labeling our annoying little friend as an (apparent buffoon of the lowest sort). That wasn't nice, and I'm sorry.

[edit on 24-11-2005 by Dedicated_Dad]

Originally posted by markusjharper
According to Washington's own writings, he was not a Mason.

Evidence?

ANY evidence for ANY of your statements?

I'd love to find something I could agree with, but am still awaiting EVIDENCE?

Originally posted by markusjharper

Apparently, you know nothing about George Washington's life and in addition are less educated about his involvment with freemasonry. Do your research before you blurt out false staements.

According to Washington's own writings, he was not a Mason. Stepping into a lodge does not make a person a Mason.

Hmmmm.... never heard that one before. So let's take a look at Washington's own words shall we?

"To the Grand Master of the Free & Accepted Masons, for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Flattering as it may be to the human mind, & truly honorable as it is to receive from our fellow citizens testimonies of approbation for exertions to promote the public welfare; it is not less pleasing to know that the milder virtues of the heart are highly respected by a society whose liberal principles must be founded in the immediate laws of truth and justice. To enlarge the sphere of social happiness is worthy the benevolent design of the Masonic Institution; and it is most fervently to be wished, that the conduct of every member of the fraternity, as well as those publications which discover the principles which actuate them may tend to convince Mankind that the grand object of Masonry is to promote the happiness of the human race.
While I beg your acceptance of my thanks for the "Book of Constitutions" you have sent me, and the honor you have done me in the dedication, permit me to assure you that I feel all those emotions of gratitude which your affectionate address & cordial wishes are calculated to inspire: and I sincerely pray that the Great Architect of the Universe may bless you and receive you hereafter into his immortal Temple.
G. Washington

or what about the letter to St Andrew's Lodge...

"Being persuaded a just application of the principles on which Free Masonry is founded, must be promotive of virtue and public prosperity, I shall always be glad to advance the interests of this Society and be considered by them a deserving brother."


Washington was a member of Fredericksburg Lodge, Virginia.


So false statements? You're better off staying away from those conspiracy sites dude. They've done nothing but fill your head with false statements.

Originally posted by Nagell

you mentioned in an earlier post that few believe that there is a conspiracy against masons and that you have been defending it for 5 or 6 years now. are you one of those who does believe that there is a conspiracy and that masonry has been used as a convenient scapegoat?

I have seen no evidence that there is a Global conspiracy by any individual or Group to control the world. Indeed I have said on many occasions , who would want to. we should deduce that anyonw with such an ambition would be reasonable inteligent, They would have examined past history and would be aware that every attempt to enslave or control the populations of the world has failed.

yes, i see a lot of evidence being supplied on other threads in this forum, from both sides. i see both sides tearing each-other apart to refute the claims made by either side. i see masons using pike to prove their point, i see other masons saying that pike isn't relevant, and so on... ,
the evidence thing is getting no where. i am just attempting to use discussion to find out why masonry seems to be at the fore-front of this belief of world-domination. i feel that this 'cryptocracy' is a vastly improved, global version of the attempted coup that was thwarted by smedley d. butler. if that is the case then it involves big-business and industrialists...capitalists.
capitalism...
which institution did more for the rise of capitalism?

[edit on 22-11-2005 by Nagell]

Well I suppose you can make a case for Big business being the architect of some disturbing things, however do they act as one, certainly not. Are they infallable, no.

Business thrives in a world of knowledge, if you know something others do not you make money on that knowledge. If you know where the oil is , the gold id, etc.

Did Freemasons have some part to play in the management of some of these large Corporations, most likely yes. Would they work together in a non profit manner for some Global fetish, no.

Capitalism is used a dirty word. But have a look around the world, is it the non-capitalistic societies sending food and aid to the capitalist Countries , no. The problem with capitalism is that it works, its unfair and its unjust, but it works.

"The first duty of the reader of this Synopsis is to obey the edicts of his Grand Lodge. Right or wrong, his very existence as a Mason hangs upon obedience to the powers immediately set above him. Failure in this must infallibly bring down expulsion, which, as a Masonic death, ends all. The one unpardonable crime in a Mason is contumacy, or disobedience."

Webb's Freemasons' Monitor, p. 196

Sounds similar to the rules of life in general to me and I see nothing wrong with promoting loyalty and a respect for chain of command.
The rules are not something to be concerned about as such, it's how they are used.. Find some examples of them being mis-used and then you'll have something worth discussing.

deleted

[edit on 25-11-2005 by markusjharper]

Originally posted by markusjharper
deleted

[edit on 25-11-2005 by markusjharper]

FINALLY a post from ol' Markusj that makes sense!

"deleted"

HOOORAYYYY!!!!

Originally posted by markusjharper
"The ... one unpardonable crime in a Mason is contumacy, or disobedience."

Webb's Freemasons' Monitor, p. 196

Aside from being plagiarized from "Watchy's Website" this quote is utter Nonsense.

Check Webb's Monitor for yourself -- it ends on page 143

Let's not let a little thing like truth get in the way of all our theorizing...

DD

Aside from being plagiarized from "Watchy's Website" this quote is utter Nonsense.

Check Webb's Monitor for yourself -- it ends on page 143

Let's not let a little thing like truth get in the way of all our theorizing...

DD

Dear DD,

Are you taking name and plagiarizing the prodigal son, calling yourself the Dedicated Dad, or is it perhaps rather that you are fulfilling the role of yet another “Big Brother” who tutors and nit-picks the forums like the new aspiring moderator?

I am truly impressed with your sarcastic styled writing (you have not yet seen mine); which would appear to manifest that common phenomenon of character called pompousness? As I have already written elsewhere, I care not to make any friends here but it is apparent that you are tying far too hard to make some appearance here as the new Pope. Might I advise you to be very careful when using terms like plagiarize (designed to invoke suspicion) and that it is merely your own flimsy tactic in trying to intimidate those who wish to accept and quote what another wrote; regardless of which site or book it is taken from and retrospective of what the poster may honestly accept to be as relevant to any discussion. I have many e-books, books and websites to be of assistance and I will post them as I so chose – albeit I will accept the Moderators ability to decide what I can and cannot post. Furthermore, I have deliberately made a stain to my posted acceptance; thus the shock or that karmic lesson shall come soon to those you do not yet accept that things are not always as they first appear.

If some of you masons, who claim to be Christians, would bother to join the thread on the Anti-Christian Conspiracy, to set those who tell lies about Christianity straight,with the same passion you defend masonry, you may have a better chance of convincing some you arn't wolves in sheeps clothing.

I am curious though as to whether any mason's who post here and claim to be Christians ARN'T Trinitarian, Sunday Sabbath keeping "Christians".

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I am curious though as to whether any mason's who post here and claim to be Christians ARN'T Trinitarian, Sunday Sabbath keeping "Christians".

Hi Suzy! I've missed you so!

Just like you to jump into a thread with a post that has nothing to do with the topic.

I'll be glad to raise my hand if you're trying to make a head-count. But I'm not sure I qualify actually, because I don't just keep the Sabbath. I usually attend Mass several times a week. Generally at 8 a.m. Monday, Wednesday and Thursday, 5:15 p.m. Tuesday and Saturday and 8:30 a.m. Sunday (oh...sometimes 10 a.m. Sunday if I'm lazy).

...uhm...what of it?

[edit on 25-11-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by Dedicated_Dad

* The concept of any sort of secret global conspiracy to enact a "One World Government" is ludicrous in the extreme. No doubt -- among the roughly 6 BILLION people on the planet there are megalomaniacs with such fantasies, but we humans are far too quarrelsome for any such scheme to ever come to fruition.

the british empire held sway over most of the globe not all that long ago. methods were used that could be considered dubious to say the least(i.e. the chinese opium wars). there may not have been 6 billion on the planet then, but all it took was a few to be at the helm to conquer many.